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View Full Version : Salamanders, best way to do them?



Boss Zagstruk
11-03-2008, 19:04
Ive decided to collect space marines and model them in the style of Salamanders.

I was thinking:
lots of flamers and multi melters,
terminators and dreads,
small mobile tatical squads with rhinos or razorbacks,
scouts with snipers,
bikes,
a variety of tanks.

Whats would you use in a Salamanders army?

I know Salamanders are supposed to be kitted out hense the terminators, dreads and tanks. Theres speed reflected in the mobile troops and bikes. I plan to model the bikes as space marines riding cold ones.

Any pointers and advice?

sliganian
11-03-2008, 19:12
Salamanders are not known for their 'fast attack' end. They are a 'close in' shooty army. Having said that, at the end of things they are a Codex Chapter.

Certainly Flamers,Meltas, multi-meltas are themed. I also run a Vindicator with my Salamanders as it fits with the 'close-in theme'. But, not to be a fool, I also run Missile Launcher Devastators. :)

I didn't have room for Termies in my 1,500 point list but they are themed as well. I did take a TechMarine in keeping with some older backstory elements about the Chapters good relations with Mars.

My Master runs a Combi-melta, Termie Honours, Thunderhammer and Iron Halo. Yes, I swing last. But then, I do get to swing. ;)

Boss Zagstruk
11-03-2008, 20:19
Thanks never considered a techmarine but it sounds good. Can anyone suggest any speciific traits to use or should i avoid them?

Kurisu313
11-03-2008, 20:20
In Codex: Armageddon, Salamanders had restrictions on assault marines and bikes because they are NOT a highly mobile chapter.

Basically, I'd use the traits suggested in the Space marine codex. I think it actually says you MUST use them that way, but that's so anal I wouldn't worry about it.

Stick to flamers and meltas and try not to use for than one fast attack slot if you wanna be fluffy. We need more salamander players (technically I'm a salamander successor chapter but screw it), and white scars too. Who needed the black templar codex? :)

Lars Porsenna
11-03-2008, 20:35
Well, to stick to the background, my Sallies force only has Assault Marines as the fast attack choice. IIRC per the background, the reason Sallies don't have so much fast attack is because of limited training opportunities (due to the rugged terrain of their homeworld), IMHO this wouldn't effect guys with assault packs (since they can just leap over poor terrain, as the pack probably was intended for...). But per the Armageddon codex you sill could take all the Fast Attack choices (just limited to 0-1). I think as long as you don't double up on choices, you'll still have a force that matces background. That being said, my force is pretty codex specific, with the option of switching out multi-meltas for rocket launchers as the need arises.

One thing to also think about is that this is a Founding Chapter, and one of the oldest around. Coupled with the severe losses during the Horus heresy, I think taking a Venerable Dread would be nice in-character choice...

Damon.

Johnnyfrej
11-03-2008, 21:08
I don't know much more about Salamanders other than the generic stuff.

For your Tactical squads use a combo of Flamers and Multi-meltas.

For elites either use Dreads with Assault Cannons (close range fire) or Terminators. Also remember that the hammer is a big symbol with Salamanders so if you make them assault-spec take at least one or two hammer/shield combos. The Techmarines are a good idea too.

I would avoid Fast Attack altogether.

For Heavy Support I would use Vindicators but having Lascannon/Multi-melta Devastators in a Razorback is a good idea too.

For some added background check out the Salamander Wiki page
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salamanders_%28Warhammer_40%2C000%29

-Private Jon

Sceleris82
11-03-2008, 21:58
If you can add some scaled cloaks on the models and make sure the marines without a helmet are black.

kaptin_anarky
11-03-2008, 23:10
Salamanders were designed to me a mid to long range army with an emphasis on melta, flamer weapons and to a lesser extent thunder hammers. But with Initiative 3, guardsman could give you a good kicking in CC. Also they had the best techmarines outside of the adeptus mechanicus because all space marines learnt how to maintain their own weapons and armour (Vulkan landed in a blacksmiths yard) so they can mess around.

Many things that are in C:SM now were introduced in the salamanders army list such as:
-Fury of the Salamander (Fury of the ancients )
-Multi-meltas in tactical squads
-Salamanders mantle (Adamantium Mantle)
-Master crafted weapons were cheaper
-non IC could be given artificer armour (and for less)
-and any character could have a signum

Things that didn't get carried through
-reinforced ceramite that nulled melta effects
-single terminator squad entry (it was a mix of storm bolters and power fists or thunder hammers and storm shields and up to 2 heavy flamers)

If you want to have a themed army; flames and hammers are a step in the right direction, and since no more initiative 3 don't be afraid to field a 10 man assualt squad with 2 flamers and get stuck in.

Don't forget you can swap your missile launcher out for another flamer, i currently have a tac squad with a flamer and meltagun + a vet sergeant with a power weapon which is deadly in a tightly packed city battlefield

Dr.Clock
11-03-2008, 23:42
Also, Salamanders are known for their craftmanship. I run them with a large number of vehicles (tanks) to reflect this. I generally run two full rhino squads and a couple preds. I'm also in the process of building a couple razors just to have a really solid mech feel.

If you haven't been to bolterandchainsword.com, you definitely should. Check out the index astartes forum and look for a guy named bannus (he posts ALOT)... his sig has a link to a salamander's fan codex based on the DA and BA lists. It allows for the use of combat squads and such as well as introducing a 'heavy assault' unit of pack-less assault marines with up to four meltas or flamers. I haven't used the list yet, but it should give you a good idea of directions to go in.

Cheers,

The Good Doctor.

Morehammer
11-03-2008, 23:48
Another thing to consider is their ethnicity, which was what drew me into collecting my first marine army. It was hinted in the artwork of the Armageddon Codex that the Salamander Chapter were of African or Polynesian stock.

skullcandy
11-03-2008, 23:52
Noone seems to have mentioned this but you can only put a salamander mantle on one model per army. It does have its uses, as once per game it can be used to defend against a instant death kill. You do have all the know-how for the painting right?

kaptin_anarky
12-03-2008, 00:01
Noone seems to have mentioned this but you can only put a salamander mantle on one model per army. It does have its uses, as once per game it can be used to defend against a instant death kill.

You can only have one adamantium mantle per army anyway

edit:

these may be helpful also:
http://forum.thefireofnocturne.com/index.php?showtopic=587
http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/index.php?showtopic=117651
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Salamanders

sliganian
12-03-2008, 14:29
Another thing to consider is their ethnicity, which was what drew me into collecting my first marine army. It was hinted in the artwork of the Armageddon Codex that the Salamander Chapter were of African or Polynesian stock.

Actually, that is very true. I was drawn to them for my first Marine army (after years of Chaos) because:

a) they are some of the most good 'good guys' -- they actually CARE about the humans they protect

b) the chance to paint some flesh tones other than caucasian. Of couse, one could do that *anyways* with any army.

Yeah, let's step away from the discussion on racial implications of the classic Western European fantasy millieux.... :angel:

Sister_Sin
12-03-2008, 14:56
The Salamanders are restricted in Fast Attack choices, mainly because their homeworld of Nocturne undergoes periodic gravitic destruction which causes havoc with training for fast attack. They are not restricted in using Rhinos or Razorbacks and indeed, given their artisanship, the fact they make most of their own stuff and their ties with the Adeptus Mechanicus, they can easily be mechanized. I use mine in just this way depending on what we are doing.

They are short range firefight types and they love flamers. In RT days they were the 8th First Founding Chapter, in 3e that was changed to 18th. In RT they had a sort of infravision which led to all of their banners being a sort of black and white since all of the colors were visible only in the infrared spectrum. Their original color scheme was a sort of yellow with black swirling bands, then a dark green; I still have the paints Salamander Black and Salamander Green, and in this dark green guise they kept the swirling black and yellow bands for the shoulder pads of officer types. The Dark Angels then took that scheme, the Salamanders disappeared from the Big Four until Armageddon came out.

In Armageddon they were different ethnically, sort of Polynesian/African/dash of Chinese. Tu'Shan is their current Chapter Master, also known as the Regent of the Chapter he is the Company Commander of the First Company, the Firedrakes...their Terminators, which in Armageddon were cheaper and more numerous than many other chapters. They also always passed last man standing tests, could extend the game by one turn if they chose, which is now useless as your opponent gets to do it if you do.

They have always been a small Chapter, smallest of the First Founding Legions, they have only 7 Companies and the Scout Company has only 6 squads. The other Companies each have 12 Squads so a Company is 120 strong for them. They have always cared for the citizens of the Imperium, so much so that they are known to get hard on allied forces, including other Space Marine Chapters, when they do callous things in this regard. After the Heresy, when the Ultramarine Primarch came out with the Codex, Vulkan was one of the Primarchs who at first resisted it, along with Dorn and Russ.

I still use the swirling banding on the shoulderpads of my characters in fact. Their current paint scheme is, I think, the best one to date. The old Chapter Banner of the flame with the Salamander inside it I still use. I haven't any bikes for them, only a couple of Land Speeders to choose between, two Assault Squads (for Apoc) and three Companies of troops, not to mention almost the entire Scout Company and lots of vehicles. Comes of 20 years of collecting. They were my first army.

If you use the current Codex trait system for them, you still have the assault restriction. However, the Codex does state that you can use the standard Codex list and create any chapter you like, which means no such restriction. It is your choice.

Sorry for the length; you can tell I like my Salamanders.

Sister Sin

reds8n
12-03-2008, 15:01
Another thing to consider is their ethnicity, which was what drew me into collecting my first marine army. It was hinted in the artwork of the Armageddon Codex that the Salamander Chapter were of African or Polynesian stock.


That has, or is about to be, changed. They have jet black skin with burning red eyes apparently.

Burnthem
12-03-2008, 16:27
That has, or is about to be, changed. They have jet black skin with burning red eyes apparently.


I've always assumed that the Sallies dont recruit exclusively from thier homeworld so they would have a mix of all kinds if skin colours.

As for the red eyes, do you have a source for this? I personally dont like the sound of it....

reds8n
12-03-2008, 16:32
Believe me I was as surprised as you.

I found it on here (http://www.nickkyme.com/blog.html).

Scroll down to the March 6th entry and Robert's your mothers brother.

Torga_DW
12-03-2008, 17:50
Someone else here decided to do salamanders using the space wolves codex. I thought that was an interesting way to go about it.

Sister_Sin
12-03-2008, 18:16
I found it on here.

Scroll down to the March 6th entry and Robert's your mothers brother.

The blazing red eyes don't surprise me; as I said they had infravision back in RT and this seems to be consistent with that. The jet black skin I hadn't come across before though; I'd always had the same impression most had then; they were dark skinned as we see them in Armageddon/3e.

Just another minor change to a very old Chapter, once the 8th of the First Founding, once one of the Big Four Chapters, now...well, I have stood by them and I will continue to do so. *grins* Besides, the army I have is so huge I don't have a lot of choice. LOL Seriously though, it doesn't really bother me. I am for more interested in the article in the Anthology; that's what I want to see. Seems to me some tweaks and additions to the conglomeration of stuff that has gone before.

Sister Sin

Treadhead_1st
12-03-2008, 21:20
I had heard the "black (as in as night) skin before - it comes from Vulkan, who's skin was burnt to a blue-black hue by the radiation of the planets sun (or the heat...can't quite remember).

The key to Salamanders...

1) Prepare to engage at close range - that's where they excel. Flamers, Meltas and Thunder Hammers/MC Power Weapons are perfect for this.

I stick any long-ranged Weaponry in Devastators. Because a) Devs are fluffy themselves and b) allows the Tacticals to get closer to the enemy. Don't worry about including Lascannons (in Devs), because the Sallies have a close relationship with Mars, thanks to the rich seams of rare gems opened up by the tectonic activity, and as such can import slightly more...rare equipment (so could even take Plasma Cannons with little worry).

2) Flamers and Meltas are the "signature" weapons.

3) Fast attack was limited due to the very high (and fluctuating) gravity of the native home world making it nearly impossible to train with anti-gravity mechanisms, and the terrain was too rough for bikes, etc.

In the old codex, you could take 1 bike squadron, 1 Land Speeder Tornado (or a squadron of regulars) and one Assault Squad. These days, I personally take Assault Bikes over Speeders, but Assault Marines are the fluffierst (still have at least 1 squad per company).

4) There were less companies, but each company was slightly larger. I don't have the exact numbers, but it was something like 7 Tactical Squads, not 6, 1 Assault Squad and 4 Devastator Squads.

5) no game effect, but they are a very Humanitarian chapter (well, for pyromaniacs) - eg on Armageddon they took to protecting refugee columns, something all other chapters had neglected to do, and as such earned the respect and devotion of the populace. They do indeed CARE about Humanity, taking the "protectors of humanity" ideal to extreme length - whereas other chapters are more than willing to allow citizens to die in massive numbers if it achieves their aims (re: the chapter that bombed the Refugee Camps on ARmageddon when the Orks infiltrated them, can't remember who right now..)

6) This doesn't affect their fighting ability thouh - on Armageddon they took out (iirc) 3 Ork Rok fortresses (Space asteroids converted into battlestations, and "deployed" [read: crashed] onto the Planet as an instant base). Full of thousands of Orks, Gargants and war machines - and they killed them by going inside and slaughtering the Orks, then planting charges and blowing them up (all along the Hemlock River Cordon, for reference)

IRRC, I think that the Salamanders DO recruit exclusively from Nocturne, which is why the chapter is smaller than all others - there is low population on Nocturne to begin with, and the expectations are high even by Marine standards, and the process is longer too, I believe. Aspirants have to walk over hot coals, carry bars of hot iron, etc, then slay a Salamander (lizard) before they can join the ranks.

'Bout all I can think of right now.

reds8n
12-03-2008, 21:26
The above link mentionned 7 settlements which they recruit from for the 7 companies.

they also dwell and work amongst the population at atimes I believe and are indeed--as Mr. treadhead said-- amongst the most human of the marines.

Genuine good guys.:)

Sister_Sin
12-03-2008, 23:06
Each Company, saving the Reserves has 7 Tactical, 2 Assault, and 3 Devastators squads.

They recruit from Nocturne. Each recruit apprentices to one of the Salamanders and learns smithcraft. The have a very slow training period for novices. Part of their training includes the feats of strength and endurance contested between Vulkan and the Emperor, among other things.

When not at war the Salamanders themselves live amongst the population of Nocturne. As has been said, there are 7 cities, and 7 companies. One reason I like them is that they take service to the Imperium and its citizens very seriously. The Space Wolves are the only other Chapter I know of that has shown real concern for ordinary humans. It is a noted aspect of the Salamanders that they do care.

Sister Sin

sugarwookie
13-03-2008, 02:55
All this talk about the Sallies has me thinking I want to do them again. Other than Armageddon, does anyone have any other reference links, or points of interest those who're interested in can take a gander at?



wOOkie

Treadhead_1st
13-03-2008, 15:10
There's an Index Astartes thingy for them, it's in one of the Index Astartes books from 3rd which also appeared in a White Dwarf around the time of the Armageddon campaign, and there are a few web resources of varying accuracy too (though I'm afraid I don't have the links for them)


Such online resource mentions a piece of background from many editions ago about the colour scheme of the Apothecaries of the Salamanders - although if painted it does tend to have a "Mexican flag" look, it's a nice twist and adds some interesting colour to the army.

There is also a small piece of fluff for Chaplain Xavier in the 3rd Ed Marine Codex, where a Dreadnought describes his life & death. It's a good read if you have the book, but not necessary to try and buy an ancient copy for.