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Moonset
07-10-2005, 12:58
Hi everyone, thanks for your help in advance... ;)

Firstly, it is possible to equip a character (and maybe some units) so that they have a +1 (or sometimes even better!?) armour save. Now, in the rules it also states that a roll of 1 always fails. So my question is, if a model has a +1 or better save, do you have to roll to save for a wound by a weapon that has no armour modifier - or would you still have to roll saves - the result of a 1 being a fail and a wound knocked off?

Secondly, can someone help me work out the save for a dark elf highborn with heavy armour, a sea dragon cloak, shield and riding a cold one!? I reckon +0...?

And now you understand why I'm, so interested... ;)

Thanks!

librerian_samae
07-10-2005, 13:00
basicly the 1+ save allows you to still get a really good save from attacks that reduce armour such as from a great weapon.

And the dark elf character does indeed have a 0+ save :D

T10
07-10-2005, 13:22
You should note that the armour save is typically denoted as "n+" ("+n" typically indicates a bonus to the save).

You still need to make your armour saves even if the modified armour save is 1+. A '1' will always fail.

Note that this breaks with the previous version wich placed an absolute limit on armour saves (1+) and did not include the rule that a '1' would always fail. Thus Warrior of Chaos cavalry with 1+ armour was immune to regular attacks of S3 or less.

-T10

ithilmar
07-10-2005, 13:37
yeah, a 1+ or better save will help you against high strength weapons where you otherwise might not get a save.

barbarella
07-10-2005, 14:47
The DE Highborn only has a 0+ against shooting, in close combat he has a 1+ save:

heavy armour 5+, shield 4+, coldone 2+, then a sea dragon cloak gives a 2+ save from shooting, and a 1+ in close combat taking it to 0+ and 1+ respectively.

Barbarella
xxx

librerian_samae
07-10-2005, 14:49
:eyebrows: ah thats true I asumed the sheild was the enchanted sheild for some reason

Moonset
07-10-2005, 15:00
Thanks guys that's most helpful!

athamas
07-10-2005, 15:06
it has been known to get -1+ or even -2+ saves, these are all well and good, but then some one cones along with a 'sa saves allowed' weapon, and its all for nothing!

Izram
07-10-2005, 16:10
Which is why they make those weapons a nigh-unusable 50 points.

chivalrous
07-10-2005, 17:26
Unusable?
I can think of plenty of combinations where it's usable.
Black Orc Warboss with full armour, Iron skin shield and Club of Crumpin.
Dark Elf Highborn with full armour, Blade or Ruin and Heartstone of darkness.
Bretonnian Lord with full armour, Sword of the Quest and the virtue of purity of a gromril great Helm.
Any chaos character with their version of the weapon.

Any Hero level character can take it, wear full armour and have a pretty good chance of surviving.
I'm surprised you don't see these weapons fielded more often.

g0ddy
07-10-2005, 18:18
Because most of the time your fighting people with 4 or 5+ saves... and s5 or s6 just kills them that much quicker :)

But if you happen to be surrounded by bretonians and other all cav armies.. im sure such people have such weapons in ample supply :)

- g0ddy

Crazy Harborc
07-10-2005, 18:43
A- 1+ save, been there and done that. I bet in favor of me rolling a 1 EVERY darn time!! I for one, don't want to have any troops that cannot be wounded and or can't fail to make a successful save!! THAT isn't "wargaming". How much fun can it be knowing no matter how bad your rolls you'll succeed/win. I outgrew that decades ago.

athamas
08-10-2005, 12:25
oh yes, 1+ saves are ok..

but its better if you can avoid them in the first place, and some things you just have to live with...