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View Full Version : Ive always wanted a Zombie horde.



Getifa Ubazza
12-03-2008, 16:15
As the title says. My question is, is it possible? What would i need to go with them, to make them effective? When i say horde, i mean HORDE. At least 200 Zombies to start the game with. Thanks.

Jack of Blades
12-03-2008, 16:20
Two hundred zombies to start the game with?
You make Skaven players look like amateurs 0_

Anyway, you'll need something to add hittyness. Grave Guard, probably, but sure it could work. Could work... it depends on how much punch you have. Zombies are very, very easy to kill and thus generate CR from, even Gnoblars will laugh at them.

nagash66
12-03-2008, 16:35
Hmmmm i think with some CC heroes in the list has pontenial, also try small units of ghouls or black knights as flankers

Necronartum
12-03-2008, 20:37
Why not go the whole hog? Leaving 600 points aside for HQ's, I am going for 300-350 zombies. Split into units of 30 (6x5), it'd give easily 10 trays worth. Never mind how well they'll do. Lol. It'd just be fun!

GrogsnotPowwabomba
12-03-2008, 20:44
The big limitation that was placed on this style of army in the latest army book is that characters now cannot join Zombie units. I used to run a huge Zombie list, but its much harder now that you can't put your characters in those units... :mad:

Spirit
13-03-2008, 02:00
It wont work for exactly the reason grog suggests.

WS1 S2 T2 I1.

Therein lies the problem.

Even with 3 ranks standard outnumber and flank, youl only have 6 combat res, they have a standard, and 2 flanks of a unit can easily kill 5, more so with characters

And thats 2v1

EDIT: AND (yep, theres an and) you cant pursue, so you HAVE to raise units behind the combats to kill units. And to do that youl have to be ~6" from the combat, with a lvl 2 or 3/4 vamp that isnt in a unit, cannonball fun!

Scythe
13-03-2008, 19:48
Remember that you don't have to START with many zombies to still play a zombie horde.

Take a vampire lord with dark acolyte and master of the black arts, and 3 thralls with master of the black arts. Throw in some magic items, like the skull staff, the sceptre de noirot, and of course the black periapt for an additional power die.

Total score: 18 dice to spend on invocations -> 18 attempts at summoning D6+4 zombies. If half of them get off, that's almost 70 zombies on average per turn :evilgrin:

Von Bismarck
13-03-2008, 20:17
and imagine how un fun it would be after one game, its a gimik at the best.

i wouldnt play that list more than once

Bleakwood
13-03-2008, 23:37
I fielded a zombie list in last edition VC, 4x35 of them at 2k points. They can be a true horde army, forcing the enemy to engage your line or become swamped leaving your elite units(I had 2 units of Black Knights) to pick their targets.

That characters cant join them now, I dont see as a problem. I never actually intended for them to win combats anyway.
But they are a lot weedier now. On the other hand they are cheaper and are raised easier. I would say my old tactics with them are still doable but I would need even more of them to make them work now.

As long as you have a few strong elite units and enough magic to keep the train rolling, then it can work. 4-6 big units(30+) would be the mainstay. The 200 you wanted seems like a good number in the new edition, certaintly not too much.

Frankly
14-03-2008, 06:29
It's really fun and doesn't get boring playing undead horde, people love playing against zombies since they get to roll so many dice and kill so much stuff.

200 zombies + support units is a doable idea. It'd be better if you had less zombies and started off with a little more CC in the beginning.

I'm thinking of going horde myself after a few games with the new book. Being able to tailor your magic phase slightly means that buffing and keeping your zombies fighting fit is alittle easier than is was last edition.

soots
14-03-2008, 06:46
Might be an idea to invest in a 4L tub of "rotting flesh" colored paint and put aside 24 months.

TheDudeGuyMan
14-03-2008, 09:09
I can only imagine how annoying setting up 200+ zombies would be... I think you would be better off, with maybe 2 units of 30 zombies, the septre of noirot, a butt load of magic to summon more zombies, and then a more conventional set up for the rest of your army. IMO, zombies in this edition got MUCH worse. That toughness 2 thing hurts a lot, not it doesn't really matter that they are 1 less point: they now don't really have any function as a flanker, because they just die too easy and end up giving you net minuses to combat res. They are tar pits, and snares for knights, maybe, but have few other uses. Why so intent on zombies anyway? Skellies are pretty cool too y'know...

Frankly
14-03-2008, 11:19
... IMO, zombies in this edition got MUCH worse. That toughness 2 thing hurts a lot....


Actually I disagree, they're better.

Their points value for a fear causing unit thats near unbreakable is amazing.

Try to understand this, THEY ARE NOT A CC UNIT. Zombies are a support unit, they won't win you any combats, but they will win you battles. Especially through controlling or limiting your opponents units.

Now they're a pure tarpit unit, your paying for what you get, if you need core CC rank and file units you have other more costly options in the army book, if you want a cheap tarpit unit zombies shine!

The fact that you have a much safer magic phase for raising and Nefeking zombie units makes a horde army really viable, its something that the game designers have got right this time around.

Horde armies basically work really well in WHFB, they take advantage of a lot of rules such as outnumbering and rank values. Horde armies have the ability to soak up damage and still have the units to give the armylist options to win games. This is where horde V.C. are going to shine in grinding it out. Last Ed VC magic was good, but fell over against sizeable magic defense, in the new book you can tailor your magic phase to constantly push smaller spells making it harder for opponent to negate the phase. Also Since zombie are so cheep you can start the armylist with a strong unit base and in turn use your magic phase more agressively than defensively.

After only 3 games with the new army book I'm really surprised how well the magic phase performs even against descent magic defense. This bodes well for V.C. horde armies as the magic phase is the engine room of you army list.

Above all that, most people are better off collecting and playing the army list that they feel they want to play. This is actually the best type of army to get. Mr Genestealerbroodlord is lucky because he's choosing a very viable option out of the V.C. armybook.

Necromancer2
14-03-2008, 15:18
Zombies need Corpse Carts to do well as a non raised unit.

Scythe
14-03-2008, 18:29
and imagine how un fun it would be after one game, its a gimik at the best.

i wouldnt play that list more than once

I never said it would be an interesting or challenging army to play. You probably wouldn't even win with it. Zombies remain zombies, they are not going to break anything serious. At least the opponent can have some fun cutting down zombies in the dozens while his troops are completely surrounded. Would make a nice battle image. ;)


IMO, zombies in this edition got MUCH worse. That toughness 2 thing hurts a lot, not it doesn't really matter that they are 1 less point:

I would also disagree. Losing a point of toughness usually only results in a single extra kill the zombies receive. With combat resolution, this causes 2 more kills for the enemy per combat turn. Concidering you can now have 1.5 times as many zombies for the same pts (as zombies are now 4 pts instead of 6), this strikes me as a good deal. 30 T2 zombies will hold an enemy longer than 20 T3 zombies.

Conotor
14-03-2008, 18:55
It will work as long as you have lots of uber heroes to own things. Exe, a unit of 39 zombies and 1 vampire lord. Stick it in combat, loose 30 or so zombies over time, while your vampire slauters your enemies. No mater how much you loose by, they still loose all the models your vamp kills!

Scythe
14-03-2008, 19:03
It will work as long as you have lots of uber heroes to own things. Exe, a unit of 39 zombies and 1 vampire lord. Stick it in combat, loose 30 or so zombies over time, while your vampire slauters your enemies. No mater how much you loose by, they still loose all the models your vamp kills!

Unfortunately, that's impossible. Characters may no longer join zombie units in the new rules.

W0lf
14-03-2008, 19:51
And even if they could its debatable.

Units with three ranks and standard will laugh at zombies all the way.

Zombies WILL NOT get the kills to remove my rank bonus so at best you are winning by 1 on static. You better believe im killing enough to be trashing you.

Frankly
14-03-2008, 22:44
Zombies need Corpse Carts to do well as a non raised unit.

I'm worried that this unit won't be effective enough throughout to be honest, its a good unit, Im just wondering if investing in more core troop units over buying 1 or 2 of these is better a idea.

Da Black Gobbo
14-03-2008, 23:20
I'd love to play against that kind of army with lots of meat shields advancing thru enemy, with my WE i'll try to seek the vamp lord and kill him ^^. hehehe.

Bleakwood
15-03-2008, 23:23
I think some people miss the point of The Zombie Horde. The zombies are not supposed to win combats, they are meant to swarm the enemy in such a great mass that he is forced to deal with them, or get seriously flanked and truly bugged down for the rest of the game.

When I played my zombie horde, there was always some zombies who bugged down an expensive enemy unit for the whole game. Faced with a large zombie unit that is continually being reinforced, almost anything can be bugged down forever if no help arrives. And no help WILL arrive since every enemy unit has to deal with 2 zombie ones.

I had maybe a 65-75% win rate with my horde, even came in 20 at Giant Fanatic in Copenhagen(450 people attending) some years ago, so it was definetly doable.

Things have changed now, but mosltly only for the better. Zombies are far cheaper and far easier to raise. The only real problem is that you have to paint even more.

Just have lots of them(200+), quite a bit of magic(no need to go over the top) and a couple of elite units, preferably fast ones, with your characters and you are good to go.
Some support units can be nice, but at this point you might as well invest in even more zombies:).

I had a lot of fun with my horde, it is truly priceless to see the look on the opponents face when he realises that the entire battlefield is a quagmire of the restless death and any clever movement is wasted as he is forced to engage the main line or be swamped forever.

Remember: Not many, but LOTS! Without a very great amount of zombies, the entire list falls apart.

Kam
16-03-2008, 02:44
IT CAN BE DONE

you will need a vampire with the helm of commandment however. units of 40 zombies work well, that gives them enough wounds to tie things up for a while.

you will need a hardcore combat vampire in a good unit, not mere skeletons of ghouls, but grave guard or possibly black knights, i would prefer grave guard. ur gunna need to go vampire heavy, and keep the vampire with the helm of commandment out of combat and protected well by something. his role would be only to give his WS away and to raise other zombies to keep enemy units tied up until a heavy hitting group gets there. you also have to do something thats very difficult to do.... you will haveto wait til the entire unit of zombies is destroyed before you charge your heavy hitting unit it. zombies literally GIVE combat resolution away and they would ultimately end up just getting your good unit killed. in a zombie swarm army corpse carts are useless, save the points. varghulfs are very useful however.

what also works WONDERS is curse of years, being cast in combat, and going off every turn!!!!
they're stuck there killing garbage while you make them old, nice! the winds of death is also just purely a halarious spell. i love it. it only kills 1 thing on a 4+ yea.... but if it does it can pay off. for example... yes it might only kill one clanrat... but it also could kill a chosen khorne knight!

magic is your best friend in a zombie swarm army.

if you actually create this army you know you have to post a picture of all the zombies u buy for it. just for comical reasons.

Frankly
17-03-2008, 06:05
IT CAN BE DONE

you will need a vampire with the helm of commandment however.


Yeahhhh, I used a twice on zombies last night, they're still really crap in CC.:D

Alexander Keith
17-03-2008, 22:38
I think a Zombie horde is a great idea! If I ever do one I'd do a Nurgle themed Zombie horde with mostly zombies and some cultist from the Mordhiem (sp?) range.

I think you should field as many units of 30 as possible forget the hard hitting stuff. Use one unit to stop the enemy and then use others to flank. This with the support of the corpse cart's could be impossible to beat!

Frankly
18-03-2008, 04:57
Your theme is a nice idea.

Lordmonkey
18-03-2008, 05:10
As many zombie units as you can muster, with MSU hammer support.

Perhaps something like 4 x 9GG, each led by a vampire with master of the black arts (As Scythe suggested), 2 varghulfs/black coaches, and the rest pure zombies, with command. Also, choose raise dead and equip the sceptre of noirot to one vampire and have him spam raise new zombies *behind* the enemy.

Hmm...

it's a really cool idea! :D