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Archon.42
12-03-2008, 22:31
Good People Of Warseer Struggled To Choose A Fantasy Army
I Would Like Something Balanced, Yet Competitive
Tornument Useable But Friendly Too
I'm Picky I Know
But Warseer Is A Powerful Tool :D
Any Suggestions To Army And List Types Would Be Much Appreciated
I Have All Army Books Apart From New VC
.42

Kadrium
12-03-2008, 23:17
Might help if you can give some idea what play style you enjoy.

Archon.42
12-03-2008, 23:29
good idea!
like quite manuverable armies
like to wear down armies with shooting/magic or through stale combat or hit and run attacks
and then strike a killing blow acrossthe board
the armies that come to mind are wood elves and lizardmen
.42

Kadrium
13-03-2008, 00:45
Lizardmen sound about right.

Lots of scouts/skirmishers, skink/salamander shooting, slaan magic, hit-and-run terradons, and hard hitting charges from krox and saurus cav.

backslide
13-03-2008, 01:19
like quite manuverable armies
like to wear down armies with shooting/magic or through stale combat or hit and run attacks
and then strike a killing blow acrossthe board
the armies that come to mind are wood elves and lizardmen


sounds like High elves to me, I use them like that all the time, grind down with magic and shooting them have chariots, dragon princes and sliver helms pick apart whats left

though must admit looking forward to trying my archmage on a dragon

Ethos
13-03-2008, 03:58
Hmh. I think this might be easiest to figure out which armies are not what you're looking for, then select one of those that remain based on personal choice/fluff/or sheer coolness.

In my mind, those that do not fit the bill for a 'maneuverable-shooting/magic/stale combat/hit and run-capable of throwing a last knock out puch' army are:

Bretonnians (mainly combat on the charge), Chaos (no shooting, and it's all based for combat with magic helping out, although they can be quite maneuverable), Dwarves (hold your ground and fight like hell), Empire (not exactly an offensive army, but they have all their bases covered), Ogres (not really any shooting, and only hard hitters), Orcs and Goblins (not entirely very maneuverable, but definitely not hit-and-run, nor expert marksmen (except for war machines), Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings (both are great for magic, undead, and stale combats/hard hitters, ...but can't exactly out maneuver most armies, and don't have that great of a shooting squad (if any), and Skaven (they have magic, and shooting, ...but they simply move forward across the board as a straight line).

Those that can (in one fashion or another) fit that description are:

Dark Elves, High Elves, Lizardmen, and Wood Elves. It depends what you want more - maneuverability, shooting, magic, hit-and-run, or last knock-out punch. For example: if shooting isn't quite as necessary as magic, or hit-and-run, then any of the 'dark' three - Chaos, Vampires, Tomb Kings - would do nicely (although both undead armies don't have great maneuverability... but they do love the drawn-out combat followed by the 'final strike' across the board).

It seems that you want an overall offensive army - lots of movement, with some tactical shooting/magic to soften up troops, or perhaps a unit or two of theirs to get bogged down with one of yours for a couple of turns until your 'cavalry' can arrive. To me, that's a lovely tactically-based army (kind of like the Mongols... with their light cav. to weaken the guys down for their heavy knights to come in and finish the rest).

Heck, almost sounds like guerrilla warfare.

So, if you're going with something along those lines (which, to me, narrows the army style of play down just a tad more) then I'd have to go with an MSU-style army. Definitely one of the Elven races. Lizardmen have their shooting, and not to mention magic, but they love the slow-moving, ranked up infantry. Sure, skins with blow-darts are fine, but they'll be way ahead of the rest of your guys while they'll be striving to catch up once someone fast gets behind you.

I'd try one of the Elven races for sure. All can do blocked infantry if that is a must - even Wood Elves have their Eternal (though they aren't that great). Both High and Dark Elves have hard hitting cavalry, whereas Wood Elves love their skirmishing, archers, and trees. My personal choice that combines movement abilities, magic, shooting, hit-and-run, along with knock-out punching, is Wood Elves.

High Elves are great for the overall shooting (they have those lovely Bolt Throwers), but Wood Elves are more maneuverable with their shooting (as well as can take special bows and such). High Elves are also wonderful for the magic (Teclis... need I saw more?), but most any army can create enough magic defense to counter at least some of the offensive magic being thrown it's way (and Wood Elves can do just that - along with have their own magic). The one thing that High Elves have clearly an advantage over Wood Elves is a direct comparison with their infantry. Theirs are more like Dwarves - they'll have decent armor, heavy cav, and high strength. But where High Elves beat Wood Elves in direct comparison, the Wood Elves simply add in their moving abilities, coupled with their great shooting, and it's an even match against any High Elf army. Sure, you can make a wonderful MSU High Elf list that moves a ton... but with woods being a wonderful ali to Wood Elves (literally and fluff-wise) the Wood Elves can literally move more across the table edge, as well as can pick their own fights when they know they can win.

Sadly, I do not know much about the Dark Elves.

If you want to move, shoot the guys until they get to you, add in some magic support, and finally strike on your terms in the way thatyou want to... Wood Elves are the way to go. If you like blocks of infantry, a more magic-based long range attack, and egging on the enemy to "come and get some", then High Elves are the way to go. Heck, if you decide on the infantry block/magic side, then Lizardmen could also work. They are slower, but tougher.


...any other thoughts?

Mercules
13-03-2008, 14:13
I think Ethos has it right for you.

WE are maneuverable even in woods which will bog your opponents down. Their calvalry and Warhawk Riders can quickly flank. A mixed WE list will have magic(in the form of Spellsingers or woodland spirits with Treesinging). It will have shooting as most of the core and special choices shoot and the Elven characters all carry bows which can be magical or use magical arrows. You will wear your opponent down with shooting and use hit and run as you normally won't have a block of troopers lined up to face them. The hammerblows tend to come from things like Treemen, Treekin, or Wardancers. Heck, even the Dryads at 96 points a unit can cause a unit headaches and they are skirmishers so they filter through terrain like magic.

Archon.42
13-03-2008, 16:15
cheers guys
i really didnt expect this much analysis
i do like the guerilla style warfare
i'll be posting some lists soon
if you guys could comment it would be much appreciated

Archon.42
13-03-2008, 17:08
just got a cool idea
nagarythe army
lots of shadow warriors, shadow king
and cool stuff in general

Mercules
13-03-2008, 17:44
just got a cool idea
nagarythe army
lots of shadow warriors, shadow king
and cool stuff in general

Interesting... If you are going Fluffy what do you intend to use for Core and Rare units? :)

Archon.42
13-03-2008, 18:20
ok, here is a link to one of my lizard lists i just dug up
i think it satisfies the major points of my style
comment please :D
http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131445
.42

Ethos
14-03-2008, 03:08
Your list seems alright.

Movement: two units of heavy cav, 6 units of skirmish (though only movement 4, I think), and one rank and file unit.

Magic: barely any

Shooting: six units that can shoot - though I don't know how well they can; two of which are Salamanders

Combat: Skinks can tie up a unit for a turn (maybe?), but eventually it will come down to your 2 cav. and 'rank and file' guys. Just make sure you can get a flank off with one of your heavy cavs. Your Skinks aren't safe to actually do any up-close-and-personal damage (I think), so you really only have your main block (which is slow and won't see combat until turn 4 because of the Skinks being in the way) and your two cavs.

Just so long as you use some of your skinks to get a flank bonus when your Riders charge something, I think you'll be ok.

Ethos
14-03-2008, 03:11
Oh, but watch out for magic tilted armies. As far as I know, you don't have much in the way of magic defense.

Three, maybe four dispell dice and no scrolls? Very risky - especially now that Vampires are magic heavy. People will start taking more magic defense-able lists... which in turn will mean more magic items/units/characters... which will mean more magic offense (most likely).

Preacher
14-03-2008, 05:16
Congratulations .42 your getting my 100th post!

I am a WE player. They got everything your looking for. The best part is that if you start to tire of one style of play you can switch it up. True we cannot do the Heavy Cav style list. But as far as hit and run goes, you cant really beat the WE. Warhawk riders have the "Hit and Run" special rule.

You can go heavy shooty, I have written Sethalya stlye list that easily fire 60 + arrows a turn, with NO penalty for moving and shooting. You can rock an all tree list that is pretty hard in combat and the whole army has a ward save(cant be taken against magic).

They are worth taking a look at. there should be a WE tactia on here some where take a stroll through there. or try looking at some of the lists posted at asrai.org.

Just my thoughts.

Belerophon709
14-03-2008, 08:20
Warhawk riders have the "Hit and Run" special rule.



So do Terradons...

That aside, I think the two obvious choices here really are WE and Lizardmen.
They both have great hit-and-run-options, with the WE winning out on stealth and pure guerilla-style, but the Lizardmen winning out on magic.

I think it all comes down to how you're looking to use your magic. If you're looking for sheer magic domination, I'd say go with the Lizardmen. However, if you're looking for magic that complements your guerilla-warfare-style-of-play, the answer definately lies with the WE. These guys are pure masters of controlling the battlefield itself.

Hope it helps.

Jericho
14-03-2008, 08:49
My vote is for Wood Elves. Sounds an awful lot like the list you want and IMO the models are 10x prettier. That settles any tie breaker :D

A13X
14-03-2008, 11:15
High Elves and Dark Elves can do everything extreemly well if your list is right and you're a good general. The lizardmen staple unit, the Saurus, isnt that fast. It is strong but not that fast. Skinks are fast but ant hold their own in combat, though blowpipes can be effective. Terradons are fast but like skinks donts have too much holding power.

Looking at what you said you want being:

"like quite manuverable armies"
"like to wear down armies with shooting/magic or through stale combat or hit and run attacks"
"then strike a killing blow acrossthe board"

Okay Lizardmen can do this, but I would say Bretonnians. Heres why:

Manuverable - Brets are as good as it gets. Knights are fast and HARD, Pegasus Knights are even faster, gnore terrain and are harder still.

Like to ware down enemy - Archers and trebuchets, they are more conventional then skinks and can be used in a variety of situations. They are both very effective.

Hit and Run - Forget hitting and dying with skinks, Mounted Yeomen and small units of Peg. Knights and Knihts Errant can do this job well. Especially Peg. Knights with 360 degree charges and ignore terrian etc.

Killing Blow To Enemy - A well pulled off Bret. charge is something not many armies can hold off. Combined charges from units next to each other are almost unstoppable and the bloody path that units such as Grail Knights and Questing Knights are devastating to infanty, and asically everything else.

Also, if you are knew, although with any army it takes practice, Bretonnians are reletivly a straight foreward army to play, although one with variable army lists suiting different people.

Bret. also tend to do very well in tournaments, which is also one of your preferences.

This is just my opinion, dont feel forced because of other peoples views, If you want Lizardmen, go for it.

Whichever army you choose, good luck buddy,


-A13X

Archon.42
14-03-2008, 15:57
cheers guys
i am very much stuck in a rut between that lizard list and WE