PDA

View Full Version : Have Wraithguard ever been worth the dollars?



MrBo114
12-03-2008, 23:29
I've played on and off since 2nd ed. as an eldar. I've never bought wraithguard or support weapons mostly because of the actual cost in dollars and it seems to me that the void can be filled by something else.take into consideration,for the same price of 5 wraithguard and a warlock i could have 20 DA's and an avatar or an entire 10 man harlie squad AND an autarch.If I chose 3 support weapons I could instead get 2 tanks or an entire battle force box set.Granted they do something but I've never tested either unit,does their firepower equal their considerable cost given the context?

grumpy old gamer
12-03-2008, 23:32
Simple answer - No.
Actual cost per model V bang for buck - too high.
As I am old I have some and got them through nefarious trading but would I have bought them - No.
I would be intrested if anyone has ever got there points back once for a 10 strong WG unit - then would also like to know what shop lifting method they used to get said unit on the table.

Malachai
12-03-2008, 23:38
No, they are next to worthless.

Feor
12-03-2008, 23:43
To go out and buy a Wraithguard? Yeah, way to high. (says the guy who's 5 away from having a 1500 point almost pure wraith army :p)

BUT!

There's a wonderful thing out there called a "spirit host" (as seen here: http://ca.games-workshop.com/storefront/store.ca?do=Individual&code=Apocalypse04&orignav=10) As it stands there, it's a pretty good deal, since you essentially get one of the Wraithlords for free. Now, I don't know if it's still available, but when it first came out it got mi-advertised all over the place, to the point that they had to offer it as the mis-advertised package, which was 10 Wraithguard, 3 Warlocks, and a Wraitlord for the same price. Now, THAT was one instance where Wraithguard's prices were equitable to their value in game. (as you get the wraithlord and the 3 warlocks for free)

I kept hoping that the Spirit Host would sell like hotcakes, and GW would just selling a 5 strong squad box for the Guard, but apparently no dice. :(

Killgore
12-03-2008, 23:53
Wraithguard are fantastic!

i own 17 of them, most of which where bought on ebay

i run non mech eldar and most games i use a 10 strong Wraithguard unit with a warlock with conceal and a fortune farsear, march them up the board supported by a avatar and wraithlord, my guardians and other foot pounders follow this block

it is very very effective as enemy fire bounces right off them

MrBo114
12-03-2008, 23:54
Thats about what i thought thx for the quick posts.I have a nice 2500 pt foot slogging army now with a little bit of cash,but not enuff to waste on points(and cash) that can just as well be used on something else to round out to 3000,as I am completely lacking in elites(as in 0 slots) what would be 2 good choices for 500 pt? harlies and scorpions or scorpions and fire dragons?

shin'keiro
13-03-2008, 00:03
Theyve never been worth the pound either! haha

sugarwookie
13-03-2008, 02:58
There was a player who ran a modified list mentioned by Killgore last weekend and he did very well. You look at the Avatar, along with the psychic powers that make them even harder to kill and I think you have a viable unit that can be quite nasty. He has a couple of Falcons and some Harlies as well. I'd say they can be used for a great effect, and also think they look pretty awesome


wOOkie

Aurynator
13-03-2008, 03:42
well I was in an apocalypse fight the other day, and i flank marched my 10 man wraith guard unit to the side of a bane blade. I shot the tank down in one round of shooting.

From the added cover of the baneblade i was able to move past it and shoot the next tank down.


In the end i had shot about 900 points worth of tanks with that unit and it was still at 8 man strong unit in the end of the battle.

But in a normal 40k battle i have a hard time seeing them as a working unit worth its points.

carlisimo
13-03-2008, 03:55
Haha I'm in the same boat. Started an Eldar army 10 years ago, and went with Iyanden colors because I liked how they looked on the jetbike box. Back then the codex, despite being huge, only had a line or two about Iyanden using a lot of wraith constructs... fluff wasn't as prescriptive as it is today. So when I saw how much wraithguard cost, I didn't buy them. And it never changed.

I think they were the equivalent of $12/ea in Spanish pesetas.

Clang
13-03-2008, 04:43
has anyone ever done any Eldar-looking 'counts as Wraithguard' conversions to save money? not sure what you'd use to convert from though - Wraithguard are an awkward size

WorLord
13-03-2008, 05:07
Not worth the dollars, but worth having if you can trade for them or pick up used cheap.

Points wise, it depends...They can be good to have depending on what you are fighting. Against Monoliths, multi-wound creatures, superheavies, and titans they can do some major damage...if you can get them into range.

Vercingetorix
13-03-2008, 06:12
Yeah, over time I've got 15 on the cheap, though I'd be quite willing to pawn them off for something else. They're certainly not bad, but at full price I'd much rather buy something else. Even now I don't really use them.

Logarithm Udgaur
13-03-2008, 07:04
has anyone ever done any Eldar-looking 'counts as Wraithguard' conversions to save money? not sure what you'd use to convert from though - Wraithguard are an awkward size
Warzone figs from the Brotherhood faction would fit pretty well, as they look about the right size. They are out of print though, so they would probably end up costing more than Wraith Guard if you can find them.

GimpMaster
13-03-2008, 07:31
pfft i know a guy who has resin casts of wraithguard....hes got like 30 of the bastards...

was playing him for the first time (in apocalypse)....had my hierophant sitting pretty in the middle of the table...not fearing anything...he zooms up with 3 waveserpents jumps out a warlock and 9 of em out of each....

1 wound left on my hierophant on the first turn!!!!! (thanks to some amazingly lucky invulnerable saves....)

wraithguard are absolutely disgusting against tyranids (if they can make it there...heh)

centy
13-03-2008, 07:45
Mate if you can get some on ebay for half price then yes get them they can do stuff nothing else can with their wraith cannon and are also great against necrons.
For the other unit you need to decide do you need an assault squad or a anti tank squad.
The fire dragons could be used for assault to aslong as they fire first but would not hold up in a long battle.
personaly i like to use wraith gaurd in combination with an avatar wave serpent and wraithlord.
The serpent carries them then harasses the enemy and the other to big boys provide cc punch while the wraithgaurd add numbers and powerful percharge shooting.
This combo worked very well for me.

elvinltl
13-03-2008, 08:04
No... Snipers, Rending, PowerAttacks, Withblade etc. all pwn them. Their hallmark of being resilient can easily be negated.
Tyranids rending make WG a joke...

Putting them in Waveserpent is stupid because WG themselves already have the resilience factor of being T6 3+ saves. WaveSerpent only give them the mobility.
10 FireDragons in a WaveSerpent is MUCH MUCH potent and cheaper then 6 WG in a Waveserpent.

Depends on playstyle. I like to hit hard so that there is no need for WG to tank return-fire and retaliation.

The WG in the previous edition were better... They had 2 wounds. Now with only 1 wound, they are easily taken out immediately. Even firedragons will pwn WG. :/

Thylacine
13-03-2008, 14:04
In the right army they are the walking wall of death! There is nothing in the other codices to match them.

Marines can't do much to them at a distance and if they walk and fire on you with multiple squads then your out of the game. I hate the things, you only have to look at comp scores from tournaments to see how others classify a Wraithguard army.

Granitearm
13-03-2008, 14:49
I have a 20 Wraithguard Iyandenesque army. I love the guys. I just march them up the field into the teeth of the enemies guns. T6, 3+/5+ rerollable will absorb a ton of punishment. They're not invincible, but they're the next best thing.

I back them up with as much quantity as I can. Harlequins, Dire Avengers, Scatterlaser Warwalkers. And they do pretty good. You need to be playing a decent sized game though. I squeezed one list down to 1500 points, but I think that's as low as I can go.

As for dollars, I was building the army up when they $10 each, I think they're $15 now. But I cheated. I had a GW employee who owed me money, and I told him to pay me in metal. 15 wraithguard and 25 Tomb King Tomb Guards for $40 American! That was a good day.:D

Carlos
13-03-2008, 16:12
Ive found them to be a great 'core' unit to hold the centre of an eldar's already weak battle line or a bodyguard for a farseer.

Fortuned they are very hard to kill, and a spot of doom works wonders with killing large beasties (Oh look, a 6. Bye Bye carnifex/bloodthirster) and they are quite a potent assault unit being S5. An enhancelock makes them I5 WS5 too.

However, it is under 5th edition these guys become nastier still. They can run, which means they can keep up with the rest of the army and there are very few ways to shift 10x fortuned 5+cover/3+armor T6 models from an objective as well.

Whilst they are primarily weak vs rending, even in 5th any eldar player stupid enough to send them into battle against genestealers deserves all he gets. Id have bladestormed them all before they even got close....

rcm2216
13-03-2008, 16:32
Nooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The_Dragon_Rising
13-03-2008, 17:55
In game i am a fan of them for the durability that they have however i refuse to buy them at their current cost.

Wraithbored
13-03-2008, 18:16
I have 20 of the buggers, got 15 off ebay and 3 from a friend and I actually bought 2. But in all the games I've played they have never made their points back. I'm not the greatest general or tactician but i'm not crap either. And I can't seem to make them work "properly". I was sort of hoping that instead of T6 in the new codex they'd get 6" more in range. But ah well what can you do? I still field them because I love the models.

Snorphel
13-03-2008, 19:58
I am slowly building up an Eldar army - no unit of WG yet.

Actually I am hoping that plastics are coming out, or that Forgeworld decides to make them. Could take a while... The current ones look too outdated IMHO compared to the plastic WL, and they are certainly too expensive.

In game terms they are extreme - potentially worthless or potentially game winners.

Such units are a lot of fun!

Cheers, J

MrBo114
13-03-2008, 21:43
Awesome posts thanks all sounds to me that although not everyone is satisfied with their firepower everyone agrees they make good meatshields (and that they are too dang expensive hehe) but once 5th comes out they actually might be in the way more if its true that friendlys block los. bummer. I'll think i'll wait for 5th to find out for sure.

KazenX
13-03-2008, 22:17
The group that I play with was pretty down on the wraithguard, thats why I ended up buying them. After afew games with a squad of 10 massacaring a tourny winning Spacewolf assault army, eating crons, and guard, their tune changed. Now I can add them to the essteemed ranks of the rarely used (for friendly games, it's lame to tool an opponent with the same list over and over again) along with Wraithlord, Falcons, and Guardian Jet Bike Squads. The point to be made is that if you keep them with a warlock and farseer while keeping them away from old codex orcs or most nids they will be a potent addition to an Eldar force. Even if you are on a budget they still soak up alot of points for the cash wilst not being a point sink.

victorpofa
13-03-2008, 23:30
I got my 10 from two Spirit Hosts @ 20% off or I would not have any. Definitely need plastic.

Archangel_Ruined
13-03-2008, 23:46
They're bloody hard to shift when I've played against them. I'm not an eldar player but I can sympathise with you over the cost of them, but they're a block of granite when it comes to the table. Yes, they die to rending and high strength/AP weapons, but everything does. Their weapons are harsh and they look good. If you have an eldar army already maybe you should consider building up a unit a couple at a time.

Ynek
14-03-2008, 12:09
I play an entirely wraith army (from time to time), which I got mostly through Ebay, Christmas, Birthdays, second hand models, and some which I accepted as payment for painting an eldar player's models for him...

Anyway, I can say that it has to be the cheesiest army I've ever used. Combined with a warlock/spirit seer, a five man unit of WG in a wave serpent is pretty deadly stuff... And also the first thing your opponent will shoot at.

The Dark One
14-03-2008, 12:23
i play a wraithguard army and it does quite well, about 7 wins and 3 loses. as we are mentioning how many we got, i have about 110 wraithguard and i have not traded for them or e-bayed them

Cypher
14-03-2008, 12:53
They're too expensive. For the price of a unit of ten (not including the Warlock) I could probably buy a thousand points of just about anything else.

Shame: Id like to do an army of Wraith Eldar sometime, but a 1500pt army of them would end up costing about as much as a low-to-middle-end PC.

Hrafn
14-03-2008, 12:53
IHowever, it is under 5th edition these guys become nastier still. They can run, which means they can keep up with the rest of the army and there are very few ways to shift 10x fortuned 5+cover/3+armor T6 models from an objective as well.

Not to mention that 10 of them will be a scoring unit in 5th! No other faction can match the toughness of 10 WG in their troop slots.

My prediction is that we will see a lot more of these guys in 5th, especially as they can now run to actually get to the objective..

Starrakatt
14-03-2008, 14:05
Hi, first post here, (very) long time Eldar player.

I usually run an Iyanden styled force and I just love the things.
True, the cost is horrible and were it not that I bougth mine in 2nd ed where they were less costier, I wouldn't play them today but as it is I own 20 of them and (for me) they are supreme on the battlefield, although I usually run 10 on foot (Spiritseer/Conceal/Fortune) and 5 on a Serpent.

Now, bang for bucks? Probably not, unless you play at Apoc and have a chance for a volley against a superheavy, like I did last game where 20 Wraithguard blew two of these in three game turn, although I lost a full squad in the process.

The only time they paid for themselves in a standard game was when they blew up a LR, Entangled the squad inside and sent these too say hi to Slaanesh the next turn. That was glorious.
Will they pay for themselves in 5th with the Running rule? I expect them to be one of the most disgusting unit in the Eldar codex for tank hunting.
Right now, their limiting factor (which happens to be what limit footslogging CC units mind you) is their slowness, so they usually only get 3 or 4 volley (if the enemy doesn't get away from them and/or they doesn't get stuck in cc) in a six turn game and are often ignored in the earlier stage of the battle.
In 5th ed, expect opponents to take extreme mesures to kill them early on, especially as a 10 strong squad they will be scoring.

As already mentioned, yes they are vulnerable to all form of high STR Power Weapons and Rending, and that's where the other squads in your force are there for: kill these threats so the WG can do what they are best for: Kill tanks and high cost models.

Starky

Granitearm
14-03-2008, 14:14
i have about 110 wraithguard and i have not traded for them or e-bayed them

I sure hope you mean 10, because 110 seems a bit...excessive.

I mean, I love my wraithguard, but seriously...

Frankie Chan
14-03-2008, 14:24
I'm not with the mood of this thread. Wraithguard worth their points, every and each of it. They are fantastics. In 3rd edition it was already so, and now they are better for the same cost.

I think that some of you don't understand their role on the battefield. They are not there to do damage, they are here to absorbe punishement and they do it incredibly well.

In my tournament army, I always field a 5 wraithguard squad with a warlock w/ conceal. With them, joined, there is a farseer who will always use fortune on them. This block will walk straight to the opponent main force. And absorb whatever you can throw at them. I will not enter the details but I've saw them do amazing things. If you can, spend a soulstone and mind war on your farseer, just to "remove" powerfists who could attack them, they are the only real threath to this unit.

Sure, there are bad match for them (like Genestealers), but is up to you to deal with that and Eldar have enough shooty units and/or mobile units to concentrate on Genestealers before they reach the WGuard.

With them, I use an Avatar, A Wraithlord, and some Scorpions. This is the walking spearhead of my army. The rest is way more fragile and mobile and will work to eliminate any dangerous menace.

I think it work quite well, this army list is by far my most successful: in 35 tournaments matchs, I'm somewhat like 30W, 3L, 2D, with many great score in army composition. A guy in the 2004 Boston GT said to me: Wow! You put Wraithguards and Dire Avengers in your army, nobody ever do that (At the time Avengers was not as good as today).

The Dark One
14-03-2008, 18:13
I sure hope you mean 10, because 110 seems a bit...excessive.

I mean, I love my wraithguard, but seriously...

i do mean 110 as i have a 4000pt Iyanden army (only 3 wraithlords)

Granitearm
14-03-2008, 19:24
i do mean 110 as i have a 4000pt Iyanden army (only 3 wraithlords)

You can't even fit that many into a single force org chart! You sir, are a madman! I salute you!:)

Midknightwraith
14-03-2008, 19:36
I can just feel the WG love. :D

@elvinltl - 1stly you can only put 5 WG +2 other models in a WS, and secondly 5 WG cost exactly 15 pts more than 10 Fire Dragons (with no Exarch). They trade firepower for survivability in this instance, and if your targets are MCs/Tanks, 10 FDs are a bit over kill. Wraithguard deployed like this are very good.

It is a shame they are so expensive the 11 I have were picked up when they were cheap. When 5 cost almost twice what 10 of anything else costs there is a problem.

The Dark One
14-03-2008, 19:47
You can't even fit that many into a single force org chart! You sir, are a madman! I salute you!:)

thanks i think, just one more word Apocalipse:skull:

victorpofa
14-03-2008, 20:51
i do mean 110 as i have a 4000pt Iyanden army (only 3 wraithlords)


You can't even fit that many into a single force org chart! You sir, are a madman! I salute you!:)


He can fit 90 in a FoC if he fields at least 6 spiritseers. That would be a ~3750 point army after adding warlocks and a Farseer :evilgrin:

blantyr
14-03-2008, 23:10
I generally don't consider Wraithguard a great option in a balanced force intended to take on all comers, but there are 'no holds bared' games and players where they can do great things. There have been a few memorable games against heavy marine players, in love with their terminators and land raiders, where 10 wraithguard, 3 wraithlord, an avatar and a some shining spear left em dizzy.

The local Apocalypse games have also become flank march crazy, with units stepping onto the table from any board edge. Forget the center of the table, it becomes all about gross short range units appearing out of nowhere and getting into close combat before they can be shot at. I've been tempted to try it with wraithguard. Titans and super-heavies are also common enough to give a wraithguard a worthy target. One local necron player has a formation of 3 monolith he likes to glide towards objectives. Putting a spirit host near the objective might give pause.

But as a plain vanilla take on all comers unit? Probably not.

vulcan raven
16-03-2008, 11:03
the wraithguard in cost for model count will only be viable if you make moulds of them from the gw miniatures. i personally cannot justify $150 for 10 models when that can buy 30-36 plastics, but price will not drop because of their paper stats.

as for gaming. they look like a fun list to play that would prove extremely entertaining

bnrweimann
16-03-2008, 14:12
I'm with Carlos on this. One of my variant lists has two 10-wraith squads with Conceal Spiritseer and a Fortune Farseer attached to each. I've had multiple games where the enemy put nearly his entire armies firepower into a squad in heavy cover only to kill 1-2 of them.

Looking forward to 5th edition where I can run these guys to get them in range quicker.

prince_dios
16-03-2008, 16:48
They cost one dollar for every year since they were sculpted! :D

I play Iyanden(and my guys are actually yellow), and I just bought two boxes of Fire Dragons. It made me feel a little guilty. It just pisses me off that things you'd want to use insta-death on are immune for -no reason-(daemons, nids).

Dweomer
16-03-2008, 19:05
Okay, just to chime in as another veteran Iyanden player...

Are Wraithguard a better buy than an equal cash amount of another fig? You'll have to answer that yourself. For me, completely and utterly.

The thing is, Wraithguard aren't just for dabblers. There's so many better Elites to buy. 5 guys in a Waveserpent is a good buy if your opponent has super-heavies on the board. But for a normal game of 40K, 6 Fire Dragons in a Falcon or 10 in a Waveserpent are going to be cheaper, more versatile, and pack a similar or greater punch. Yeah, Dragons will be less durable, but that's why they hide in the tanks. Additionally, Shining Spears are the only really CC-oriented squad outside of Elites.

Don't bother looking at Wraithguard unless you're going all-in and taking them as Troops. The way to really use them has been implied above, but not really spelled out. Give the Spiritseer Conceal and then attach a FortuneSeer too. They'll start at about 481 points per squad. But it means a Troops choice with T6 and 3+/5+ armour with re-rolls. Think Rending Shooting is a problem? Bah. 3 Assault Cannons will math-hammer to just under ONE casualty per round. Scared of CC Power attacks? A 10-man Assault squad with PFist Sergeant and a Librarian will kill about 4 on the charge... and that's not figuring for taking Inv saves on the Warlock. CC Rending spam will cause you problems, but that holds true for just about everyone. Genestealers are why you have other forces in your army.

A Wraithguard army plays completely different from standard or mechanied. You lose core maneuverability and range in exchange for superior durability. WG armies actually play very similar to Thousand Sons. You take your huge tarpit and march it directly up the center of the board. They have decent I, so unless there's hard cover and heavy fire, you don't have to bother with cover. Spread them out so that your overall threat radius is increased. The number of kills they'll actually get will be minor. Very few games will see them ever "kill their cost." But that's a very simplistic and faulty way to ascribe value. Their true use is to provide a rock-solid unit that can shrug off tons of fire, overwhelmingly threaten anything that comes within 18", seize objectives, and recieve the enemy charge unflinchingly.

The other trick is to make sure you've got someone around to get the Wraithguard out of CC. Harlequins are a particular favorite of mine as they can hang around 10-14" behind the Guard (or behind nearby area terrain) and realiably counter-charge my opponent. Even if the dice go against me and I don't kill off everyone in the combat, I can often Hit & Run with my delicate Harlies and rely on my Wraithguard to hold up through the enemy turn. Shining Spears are a good call too if you want to swap things up and/or hate Harlies.

With their high cost and support requirements, I wouldn't bother trying to run two squads in anything less that 1750+. They're also a great way to boost your composition/sportsmanship scores in most areas. People are getting used to Eldar armies with only two squads of Dire Avengers or Guardian Jetbikes, so Wraithguard are a nice way to change things up and boost the percentage of your points spent on Troops.

Now that all that has been said, I'd advocate patience in acquiring them. Yeah, the owner of your FLGS might appreciate the cash, but you can find them on Ebay all the time. People buy an army that has some, realize Dragons are better for Elites and then sell the Guard. The figs have been around long enough that they show up quite frequently. Also, they're metal figs so stripping bad paintjobs is really easy. And as a final point for paitence: who knows... maybe GW will finally get around to making plastics of them some day.

MrBo114
17-03-2008, 01:24
Dweomer, very nicely laid out thanx for the info.

Midknightwraith
17-03-2008, 16:19
@Dweomer, I run a squad of 5 in a WS all the time now. They are certainly good this way. Also 5 in a Wave Serpent is not Signifigantly more explensive than 10 fire dragons in a WS or 6 Fire Dragons in a Tricked out Falcon (most of the variation can be accounted for by difference in weapons). In some situations the Falcon/FireDragons are actually more expensive, and they take up two slots in the FOC instead of one.

Fielding them as Troop Choices is effective, but it is not the only way to play them. And with the rumored rule changes in 5th putting them in a WS will be better than Fire Dragons.

The real problem with Wraithguard is that they are a finesse unit, and like most eldar units in the wrong situation they will suck, horibbly. Rending, and most of the Heavy Anti-Infantry guns can wreck them, they are slow, and have short ranged weapons (that are devastating!), and they are not all that bad in CC either, especially against regular troops. Problem is people pay more $$ than the cost of a terminator for them, and try to use them like terminators, and then get disapointed when they don't live up to the hype. And so I'm happy to relieve such people of their WG units. PM me if you know somebody like this. (I'd love to have 100+ wraithguard! OMG! you're crazy, like a fox!)

Incidentally, there are times when terminators suck too! They just never suck as much as wraithguard because of the innate 2+/5+ save, which makes up for a lot.

Dweomer
17-03-2008, 19:44
@Dweomer, I run a squad of 5 in a WS all the time now. They are certainly good this way. Also 5 in a Wave Serpent is not Signifigantly more explensive than 10 fire dragons in a WS or 6 Fire Dragons in a Tricked out Falcon (most of the variation can be accounted for by difference in weapons). In some situations the Falcon/FireDragons are actually more expensive, and they take up two slots in the FOC instead of one.

Fielding them as Troop Choices is effective, but it is not the only way to play them. And with the rumored rule changes in 5th putting them in a WS will be better than Fire Dragons.

Midknightwraith, I'm not saying that 5 in a WS are worthless. I'm just saying that there's other anti-tank squad and/or Elite choices that are a more optimal expenditure of points and cash, per the theme of this thread.

Consider the Waveserpent Dragons versus Waveserpent Guard. Presuming you want to avoid Wraithsight and are taking a Warlock, a 5-man WGuard and Warlock is going to start at 40 points more than 10 Fire Dragons. Lesser effect? Even versus a Monolith, 10 Dragons still have a 55.6% to kill while 5 Wraithguard have a 74.1%. And the Dragons are going to be better for shooting most anything else just due to volume of fire. Note that this doesn't factor in survivability; I implied above that most people ignore this because it is so difficult to factor. The Wraithguard will stick around a little longer, but in smaller games I'd rather have the points to invest in another Scoring unit. That's 2/3's of a Vyper there.

Then there's the 6 in a Falcon bit. Yeah, a tricked out Falcon with Bright Lance and all the bells & whistles is going to be more expensive... and just as equally stupid. A smart Falcon runs Spirit Stones, Holofields, Vectored Engines, and two Shuri-cannon. Add in 6 Dragons and you're at a total of 281. A typical Waveserpent in a smart load-out runs Spirit Stones, Vectored Engines, 2x Shuri-cannon and a chin Shuri-cannon. So 340 total with the Wraithguard. So you've got a slight drop in anti-Monolith and squad durability but save 59 points, gain tank durability, and have TWO Scoring units. If you find one more point, that's an entire Vyper and third Scoring unit.

Now in larger games (2.5K+) where maxing out your Force-Org is a consideration? Yeah, buy those non-Scoring Transports and expensive units. For those players that love Wraithguard above all else? Yeah, take the figs you like. But for most games and gamers, especially competitive, 5 Wraithguard in a Serpent are not an optimal choice.

As to being better in 5th? First, rumours aren't worth anything until both you and your opponent have an official hardcopy in hand. But if we are paying attention to the voices of the warp... the points will still be the same, as will kill factor unless the AP1 Pen rule gets removed. Dragons will suffer a bit more when the Waveserpent gets blown away, big deal. Now comparing apples and apples, 5-Wraithguard in a Waveserpent won't be a Scoring unit. 10 on foot will Score and can Run. I think the choice becomes even more clear for 5th: Take Wraithguard as Troops.

JustTony
17-03-2008, 23:36
Wraithguard are like any other unit, dangerous if used properly. In larger games I normally take two units, one of ten with spiritseer and listed as troops in order to bulk up my "troops" numbers and points values. The other is five strong with farseer, spiritseer and mounted in a Waveserpent with vectored and star engines. Scares the hell out of many local Marine players, they just aren't used to bolters and Heavy bolters bouncing off of Eldar units.

I have about 30. I got them all off of eBay from a gentleman named "itsmarc7216". His prices have gone up recently, but he's still a good deal. I paid $80 for a squad of 10 and a warlock assembled and painted to a good table top standard. I like it anytime I can get well painted models quickly and relatively cheap. I'm a decent painter but I'm slower than molasses in winter. I need to find someone who'll swap painting for assembly or somethng similar. Oh well.

Peace: through superior firepower.

Murphy's Rules of War - 1) Friendly Fire - Isn't 2) Guided Missiles - Won't 3) Smart Bombs - Aren't and 4) Remember your weapon was made - By the LOWEST bidder!!

Midknightwraith
18-03-2008, 20:52
Geez Dweomer, I guess I misunderstood the following comments


The thing is, Wraithguard aren't just for dabblers. There's so many better Elites to buy.

Don't bother looking at Wraithguard unless you're going all-in and taking them as Troops.

With their high cost and support requirements, I wouldn't bother trying to run two squads in anything less that 1750+.

With reguards to point cost, warlocks are not mandatory, and if you're buying a warlock you should compare the cost to a Dragon squad with Exarch. The cost ends up about the same, and they both add flexibility to their respective squads. The wave serpents for each is a wash.

Skip 4 Dragons and you save exactly 64 points. The average WS is 125 (I don't personally put any upgrades on them except the ocasional underslung shuriken Cannon 100-110 pts, and do just fine) the average Falcon is 195, or about 70 points more. So again a wash. The only real argument is 2 scoring units, and the counter argument is two FOCs.

Your assertion that their are more efficient elite choices (Dragons) that are signifigantly cheaper, is plainly flawed.

And your further assertion to "only look at Wraithguard" in groups of 10 as troops is equally flawed. I will say that putting them on the ground (No Wave Serpent) without filling them out to 10 and a spiritseer so you can deploy them as troops is likely to be a bad idea, but that is not what you claimed.

For games <=1500pts a squad of 5 with a Warlock (Enhance) in a Wave Serpent will set you back about 320 pts (depends on Serpent weapons). They are mobile, and will kill just about any heavy target. And are also good in HtH against non-CC specialist troops(which Dragons are not without an Exarch)

In short the bigger a game is the more opportunity the Wraithguard will have to kill big stuff, but they are just as useful in small games where their supperior stats can crush weaker troops.

Chaplain Ark
18-03-2008, 21:00
Simple answer - No.
Actual cost per model V bang for buck - too high.
As I am old I have some and got them through nefarious trading but would I have bought them - No.
I would be intrested if anyone has ever got there points back once for a 10 strong WG unit - then would also like to know what shop lifting method they used to get said unit on the table.

i dont have a 10 man strong unit but i usually consistently play a 5 man unit, and unless they are shot at in the very first turn, they usually do well. problem is, most people think "DEAR GOD, WG!! WTF!!! MUST DIE!!!" and spend nearly all thier shooting to take out the wg alone. it makes them a very point heavy meat bullet magnet, but by the end of the turn ive lost 6 men and all my army is within range of your army where it would take two more turns for the wg to do anything. so they usually help out.

carldooley
18-03-2008, 21:17
I bought a squad of ten WG off of the big E and I use them to escort my fortune\guide\mindwar farseer. for majority toughness, there are none better, and considering that I play mostly mech eldar, they can be used for bait in the center of the board for my opponent's footsloggers. if you can get them for a deal, I would highly recommend taking them with conceal, but if you elect to pay for them at the GW stores, I would recommend taking them only when you have some spare cash in your pocket as the squads get expensive fast.