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AnotherZach
13-03-2008, 04:56
I just started playing whfb again with an old group of friends. We usually play fairly low points games, used to be 500-1000 points but at the moment they're running an 'escalation campaign' where the points allowed goes up every month.

I play Vampire Counts, and used to get stomped a lot in low points games. The campaign is up to 700p now and I was just looking for some advice on an army list. The field is pretty diverse, we've got people playing: Empire, Dwarves, Tomb Kings, Ogre Kingdoms, Demons, Dark Elves, High Elves, Wood Elves and Bretonnians. Most frustrating thing about the campaign is that you're allowed to change your army list every game so people completely tailor their armies. I don't really like to do that so I've come up with a basic list that I think should do okay against everyone. It looks something like this:

Vampire
Master of the Black Arts
Flayed Hauberk
Biting Blade

Necromancer (IoN,Vanhels)
Book of Arkhan
Extra Spell

10 Crypt Ghouls
10 Crypt Ghouls
20 Skeletons w/ command and the Banner of the Dead Legion
6 Dire wolves

I haven't played in the campaign yet, but from what I've heard people seem to play pretty special/rare heavy armies with things like double RBTs showing up a lot for the elves and a couple of cannons/mortars for empire. I'm still learning a lot of the tactics of warhammer so any advice would be appreciated.

Rigormortis042
13-03-2008, 06:34
I don't rally know the new VC rules so I don't know anything about the stuff you have in your army.:eyebrows:

What I do know is that one of my friends that stopped playing VC before the new rules came out, vastly underestimated zombies. I see you don't have zombies in the list. Zombies are a cheap unit that you can use to manouver a strong unit into combat and keep it there for your skellies to do a flank charge.

And you can raise a whole lot of them!

tw1386
13-03-2008, 06:44
Well, you don't have to take zombie units anymore, you can just summon them out of nowhere. Saves you points, even though they are really cheap.

AnotherZach
13-03-2008, 07:26
Yeah, I was reading some of the VC tactics threads in the tactics forum here and a lot of people were saying that its hard to justify taking zombie units in lower points games when you can just magic them into existence.

Then again, I could lose one of the ghoul units and take 20 zombies for the same cost. Gives me a second large(ish) unit of infantry that can get up to 30 models pretty quick... could be good! I'll get to play a few games with the list so maybe I'll try both configurations.

Spirit
13-03-2008, 11:01
Zombies are NOT worth it lol.

WS1 S2 T2 I1, they get mauled by everything. Even with 3 ranks and a standard, people WILL KILL more than 4 a round, easy.

I would say, considering such a small game, 1 casty and 1 killy vampire would do well.

i would go with:

Vampire
Dark acolyte
Lord of the dead
Black periapt

160

vampire
Infinate hatred
walking death
Sword of battle
Flayed hauberk

190

10 Skeletons W command 100
18x gouls W command 152

This leaves you with 98 ponits to play with.

Your casty vamp is there to raise stuff and kill things, although you went with +2 power dice, this is cheaper, gives you the same power dice (but you lose a dispell dice, which shouldn't be an issue in such a small game), but you get an extra spell, which WILL make a difference. He is there to pump up the skeleton unit as much as possible, with a 3+ to cast it shouldn't be hard.

The hitty vamp can go in either the gouls or the skellies, he will decimate rank and file, 4 attacks S5 with hatred and +1 combat res, this will win you those combats, and there wont be many. 2+save because he will be in combat.

Arrange the gouls in a 6x3 formation, you dont need many ranks in a game like this, and 13 poisoned attacks will balance that out anyway. If you putting a vamp in here, drop a goul, makes it look nicer and saves you 8 points.

Necromancers are good, but in such a small game, i fear he wont do much, ok he can vanhells, but when each army only has 3 or 4 units, flank charging shouldnt be needed much.

Id be tempted to get a unit of 5 dire wolves, for flanking, and 3 fell bats, to kill any cannons people have invested in. This gives you 2 solid core units (or it will once you start casting, and not many armies will have 2 wizards in 700 points), a flanker, to win combats, warmachine hunter and a character that kills. Seems pretty "take all comers" to me.

Try to remember that vampires are BETTER mages than necromancers, yes, necromancers have their place, but they are only lvl 1 with 1 S3 attack. Vampires, for not that much more of a points cost, are killing machines. Ok, vamps cant choose their spells, but in such a game like this all you need is invocation and raise dead (both of which every vampire CAN get, because you can always choose spell one)

Also, as a final note, remember FEAR, if you outnumber the enemy and win a combat, they run on anything but a double 1, if you have put a zombie unit behind the combat in your magic phase, that unit dies instantly if (and when!) it runs. Doing this just once i na game of such a small size will almost guarantee victory.

Edit, if your facing lots of high armoured things, go with the sword of might on your vamp, S6 should be more than enough in this kind of game. r if you know they are low toughness knights, go with the biting blade, 10 points cheaper and better against T3 enemies with saves of more than 4+

Spirit
13-03-2008, 11:08
Well, you don't have to take zombie units anymore, you can just summon them out of nowhere. Saves you points, even though they are really cheap.

You could always do that, you just don't take zombie units any more, no reason, you just don't want to. Raise yes ofcourse, but you could always do that.

AnotherZach
13-03-2008, 20:38
I hadn't considered the black periapt really but getting 3 power dice *and* an extra spell out of that vampire sounds like a pretty sweet deal. I had wanted to make room for 2 vampires when putting the list together, but couldn't get the points for it - focusing on raising skeletons seems like a good way of allowing this.

One of the reasons I had the necromancer as a Vanhels machine was to combat fast cavalry. One of the small ghoul units could turn around and then be charged into the fast cav. Is this more of a role for summoned units of zombies?

Also, I'm a little worried about the casty vampire being killed by a cannon ball or eaten by units of fliers. I guess he could be hidden in the ghouls or skeletons until they get near a combat... seems like a temporary solution.

Spirit
14-03-2008, 01:07
Simple answer, my second vampire, give him the talisman of lycni. then he has M9, just wait till the buggers come close and charge them down. Its only 10 points so he can afford it at the moment. . (hide IN the untis so they wont expect it,the unit cant move if he charges out, but it means dead fast cav, also, place bats near (ish) them, so you can dual charge, if he flees, he has to outrun the bats aswell, with 20" charge.

And no, your right, your solution is better for that, but again, you lose so many attacks. If the fast cavelry (or anything) charge the necromancer, they can just say "allocating 2 models and horses on the necromancer) and he dies.