View Full Version : Anodyrs second project log - Pre-Heresy Guard

13-03-2008, 17:38
Hi all,

I'm turning my thoughts to a new project. I've just got back into 40K after a prolonged absence, and have been flexing my modelling and painting muscles by working on a squad of Rainbow Warrior marines (I'll dig out a link to my other project thread and sig it for anyone interested), and although I've still got plenty to do on them, I cant help thinking about what I'll do next.

Along with my return to the hobby side of things, I've also started re-reading the HH novels and inevitably thats colouring my attitudes towards my next project. Cos lets face it, Pre-Heresy rocks!

Anyway, tempted as I am by taking on a marine legion, I'd like to step away from Marines once I finish my Rainbow Warriors and do something different (perhaps PH marines will be Project # 3...).

So what about the Imperial Guard? I want to start by using this thread as a bit of a brainstorm thread really, so please throw everything and anything you can think of into the mix to help me come up with a concept. I'm keen to try and make my Guardsmen recognisably PH, and have a couple of ideas for this (more below). I'm thinking of the kind of regiment that would accompany the expeditionary fleets on the Great Crusade.

First, questions for you all:

What elements of the current Guard list would be absolute no-no's in a PH Guard army? I'm thinking abhumans will be rare to non-existant, plus some of the tanks and heavy weapons may be non-existant back then (or rarer), but not sure which ones... Also preachers would be less prevalent given that the Cult of the Emperor is somewhat frowned upon.

What elements may have been around but have since dissappeared? (E.g. if there are any tanks or suchlike mentioned in the HH books that are no longer available to Guard armies, nows the time to shout! I've only read the first two novels so far so my novel knowledge is slim.)

Would the battallion formation have differed back then?

Is there anything in general I should bear in mind when planning my Guard?

As for what I have in mind, I think that as the Guard are part of the Great Crusade, their appearance may well be more about making a good first impression rather than tactical thinking - therefore the army will go into battle in dress uniform rather than camo.

A major consideration with collecting and modelling is that Im not made of money and cant afford to buy boxs of plastic for the sake of a few parts, so my purchases must be efficiently planned. That means no buying of Brettonian men-at-arms boxs just to use their heads or whatever. If Im likely to be able to get the bits from elsewhere at a reasonable price then maybe, but otherwise efficiency is key. This also largely rules out FW kits and parts.

Model-wise, I'm thinking of taking Cadians and extending their coat tails into a full length great coat. The helmets will have the techy side bits removed and a ridge of greenstuff modelled on top to give them an appearance similar to Empire Pistolliers - a more "classical" helm basically. Helmet will be silver, armourprobably grey, greatcoats in cream.

I'd like to get some tanks in there (and sentinels too if they are appropriate for the era?) and would probably use a grey colour scheme for them as I think this would contrast nicely with the cream coated infantry (whilst tying in with the grey chest armour of the infantry).

Rough riders are also a strong element I'd like to include if I can get hold of some plastic horses, possibly giving the riders plate armour on their lance arms to make them stand out from the infantry.

What about representing other units? How would stormtroopers appear for example? All the current ST models wouldnt look right next to PH greatcoats imo so some other option would be required... perhaps additional plate armour and a full face visor?

Officers would largely resemble the infantry, but with the addition of ostrich feather plumes on their helmets to give them a good dose of "grand".

As a name, Im thinking of "Surrian Jannisaries" purely because I like the name, not because of any historical connotations.

On a side note, I'm also going to look at modelling a few Crusade personnel for variety - e.g. remembrancers and other non-combatants. Purely for fun and to provide a welcome diversion to painting greatcoats.

So thats all I've got for now. All thoughts, comments and criticism gratefully received (and needed!).



13-03-2008, 17:54
these are definate no-no's in my view

only the basic Russ Tanks should be used

You could use Inquisitor stats to represent field commanders (with the remembrancers etc being represented by their retinues)

I would have a think about converting your own Stormtroopers.

if you haven't already, read Legion for a bit of inspiration

13-03-2008, 17:58
Thanks for the reply. When you say only the basic Russ, do you mean as opposed to Russ variations, or IG tanks in general (e.g. hellhounds, basilisks etc.)?

I agree that converted ST's is most likely the way forward, its just a case of working out how they should look....

As for reading Legion, Im reading the books in order and havent got to Galaxy in Flames yet, so sadly thats a no-go for a while. :(

13-03-2008, 17:58
Include Land Raiders, Rhinos and Land Speeders in there! Space Marine officers leading the army would also be very fitting! As for the "looks", I think there would be as much diversity amongst the Imperial Army then as there is in the Imperial Guard today. Oh yeah autoguns were used more than lasguns IIRC.

Ab-humans were included, remember that the Imperial Army contained units of Beastmen as suicide troops!

Colonel Stagler
13-03-2008, 18:00
preheresy guard, cadian bodies, with heads added from pig iron, or westwind would be your best bet, backpacks added to taste from theassaultgroup. Doctrines, ogryns, stormtroopers, pskyers, iron discipline and close order drill, id say, or maybe drop stormies for sharpshooters.
Make sure to take lots of malcadors and basic russes. Load out on the plasma weaponry and quad launchers lol
Stagler Out

14-03-2008, 12:00
Basic Codex Russes (the Leman Russ and Demolisher)

14-03-2008, 13:45
You can learn a hell of a lot about Pre-Heresy Guard from Dan Abnett's latest Horus Heresy novel, Legion.

Specifically, the Geno 5-2 Chilliad, which is a Terran IG regiment. Part of the 'Old 100', they are one of the few remaining Imperial Guard regiments that have been left to function without being forced to adhere to new Imperial standards.

The Geno 5-2 Chiliad operated so well during the Terran Unification Wars that the Emperor decided that they should be left 'as-is'. Because of this they provide a very interesting insight into Pre-Heresy Guard.

Most interesting is that their rank system is completely different:

Uxor: Senior Tactical Officer (always a female low-level psyker)
Genewhip: Commissar / MP
Hetman: Company Commander
Bashaw: Sargeant

Known Companies:
The Dancers
The Jokers
The Clowns

I can't remember much about their appearance, but I kind of got the impression that they would look like the Vostroyans, but replace the fur hats with more normal looking IG helmets. I seem to remember some of them (specifically the Dancers) also wore yellow half-cloaks with company heraldry and squad markings embroidered on it, and goggles with vision slits across them - although these could possibly be desert combat issue only.

They had some very weird vehicles - ranging from Speeder based APCs (like an elongated SM Lanspeeder with a center compartment for a squad), and a walker type APC that had a multitude of legs and walked like a millipede.

19-03-2008, 22:47
First of all, thanks for the replies everyone, you've given me plenty to think about with this new project. I've turned the ideas over in my head and have arrived at a more focussed concept Im pretty happy with at the moment.

Perhaps most importantly, Ive settled on my regiments name - the VIIth Surrian Janissaries.

My intention is to put together a few units (I dont play any more so I'm going for the units I would like to build rather than necessarily building a legal army) with a distinctive Pre-Heresy theme and appearance. Although the armies not built for gaming, I'll follow the Codex as much as possible in terms of the units I put together. Im also not discounting anything at this stage - I like the idea of doing a few crazy things like the millipede walker thing, but shall keep them on the back burner until inspiration strikes.

The basic infantry models will be cadian plastics with Empire pistolier heads (feather removed) and greenstuffed great coats. Colour scheme will be cream greatcoats, blue-grey chestplates, silver helms (and arm and breastplate armour on the officers and roughriders).

Officers will keep the pistolier feather on their helms, and I may also go with a breastplate body (Pistolier or Knightly Order) to help them stand out from the common troopers. I may also look at the number of feathers on the helm being an indicator of rank (I'll make a decision on this once I get hold of some heads).

Roughriders will be as per the officers, with a high collar and Knightly Order arms and lances to give them an armoured, antiquey look. Horses will be the Pistolier horses, possibly with some armour added. Im keen for the Roughriders to be a fairly prominent part of the regiment and therefore intend to do a couple of squads plus mounted Command squad to represent the Roughriders as a platoon rather than just Fast Attack units.

I'd like to do the heavy weapons teams as gun-carriages, but this largely depends on whether I can get hold of the necessary bitz cheap enough.

Tank-wise, I'll be going with basic Russ variations, plus tanks like the Malcador that have that nice old-fashioned appearance about them. Transports will be chimeras, though I may include a command land raider if I can get one cheap as a nod to the Rogue Trader guard lists. Vehicles aren't on the "immediate to-do" list, so there may be changes of plan as units form and ideas develop.

Currently waiting for bitz to arrive from ebay so I can get started, but once they arrive, I'll start posting some photos as and when I have them.

BTW, if anyone has any Knightly Order lance arms or pistolier heads or horses going to waste, please pm me - maybe we could work out a deal...

04-04-2008, 15:58
By way of a quick update, after playing around with the Imperial Guard doctrine system and deciding that I cant represent the Pre-Heresy force without taking loads of doctrine points I've decided to approach this from a slightly different angle.

I shall now be aiming to represent an Expedition Force rather than a single regiment. This means I get to do lots of different stuff all under the one Expedition Force banner.


- a PH Marine Legion (havent decided which yet)
- a titan force (probably with Epic scale titans)
- a couple of different Imperial Army regiments (definites at this point are my Surrian Janissarys, which will be largely roughrider based, a human-led beastman regiment and a platoon of ship-based boarding troops).
- some of the Expedition Fleet personnel - high ranking Army and Astates officers, key flagship personnel, remembrancers & iterators)

So thats my new plan. I'll work out fluff and regiment details as I go along. Bits for my first beastmen and roughriders will be on their way soon, so more updates (with pics!)soon hopefully.

06-04-2008, 17:36
i love the new idea for a crusade army, which adds the fluffy option of incorporating a marine legion in there somewhere. if done in small numbers, this would be especially cool. i like ultramarines or imperial fists, thoug hi havent read the more recent HH novels so cant say whats really charcetrsful or not, but i think any legion would work really (i particularly like the irony of using one of the legions that later turned traitor... hehe ;))

06-04-2008, 17:46
So is this Expedition Force going to be in 40k or Epic scale? Personally I think it would be really cool to see an Epic scaled army for this, you could then actually integrate all those parts which each other and see how they work together instead of having just another pre-heresy 40k Space Marine army.

By the way...pick Alpha Legion! :evilgrin:

06-04-2008, 18:03
I think Ig + Inquisition codex would work well. As mentioned above Inq. retinues for remembrancers an iterators. In adition Inquisitors give access to Land Raiders, which were used by the Guard pre heresy, I think. Or some sisters used as witchseeker squads and the like.

I think Hellhounds were developed post heresy so none of them in the list.

06-04-2008, 18:35
i agree with the above post and love the idea of using =][= retinues for iterators and remembrancers! very cool

and you get access to things like preds and land radiers which the guard could use

and if yo ucan spare the change, use the battlecannon malcador as either 1) a counts a leman russ or 2) a malcador!

06-04-2008, 19:11
I'd love a malcador - maybe one day... ;)

Im planning on doing the army in 28mm scale, but it would be interesting to try and do it in Epic too: while the 28mm models would be a representative selection of the overall force, I could actually do a much more number-realistic version in Epic... might just be worth a go.

I'm not familiar with the Inq codex's (Im guessing Witchhunters is the one I'd need) so I'll have to look into those. Having a few characterful retinues could be pretty cool.

Worked out a sample list for the beastman regiment tonight which ended up looking like this:

Doctrines: Conscripts
Chem-inhalers (Frenzon injectors)
Hardened Fighters
Veterans (so I can make up a couple of units of ccw weidling beastmen)
Independant Commissars

So my first draft list to build to would be:

Command HQ (Human, with one or two beatsman vets + commissar)

2 x Hardened Vets squads

Infantry platoon (Human HQ with beastman champion vet, commissar and 2 x Gor squads)

Conscript Platoon (30 conscripts probably using ungors to show their lower physical characteristics compared to the gor troopers) with Commissar

Struggling to find any support squads that feel right with the beastmen. There wont be any heavy weapons as I just dont see gors manning a heavy weapon, but special weapons will appear in the platoons.

Its not a problem if I cant find ways to integrate support squads - thats why the fleet carries multiple regiments so that it can mix and match according to the needs of a particular engagement - so Im not worried about whether or not a beastman regiment built this way would get mullered in an actual game.

It would definitely be nice to squeeze a landraider in for one of the higher ranking Imperial Officers in the fleet.

As for which Legin to go for, Im definetly more drawn to a would-be-traitor legion over the loyalists. Alpha Legion were a possibility, although after painting my Rainbow Warriors I think I may want a break from blue. Most favoured option at the moment is Word Bearers - always loved them, plus it would also be a nice way to squeeze a bunch of Imperial Cultists into the mix (Empire flagellants). This may also tie in well with using the Witchhunters codex as I believe I could model a good force representing the Word Bearers most fervent convertees using that list (if anyone can confirm this for me that would be much appreciated). I also see the Word Bearers as being tolerant of the abhuman regiment - as long as they're fervent enough in their beliefs, who cares what they look like?

Any and all c&c always welcome.

14-04-2008, 20:54
Time for my first picture update!

First of all though, I received the first 16 members of my XIVth Dreahn Abhuman Assault Auxhiliaries a couple of days ago, including a beastman warlord who will be getting a two handed chain axe upgrade before taking up an honorary psition in my othrwise human command squad. Work will commence on these guys as soon as I manage to work out a good way to dissolve the glue that currently holds the plastics together so I can start from scratch with them. Any suggestions gratefully received.

As for the Surrian Janissaries, I have a box of pistoliers now, so I've started work on the horse armour for the first horse. This is my first attempt at using plasticard, and as it turns out that plastic horses dont have symetrical bums its proving to be quite tricky to create the perfect template for the sectioned armour plating I want them to have. Nonetheless, my first effort has come off not too badly, so I can learn from this for the rest. Not to sure what to do about armouring the front end at the mo, so again any suggestions are appreciated.



And, before I forget, I've decided which Legion will be accompanying the Expedition Fleet - the Thousand Sons. I figure they wont have any isues with fighting alongside beastmen, plus they arent a legion that you see a lot of (pre-heresy at least).