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Ethlorien
14-03-2008, 02:27
Evening Folks,

Flipping through my Empire Army Book this night and a thought came to me. Personally, I love the fluff of Warhammer. The history, heroes, everything. These days I seem to have more time to flip through the Army Books I have then to get in an actual game. So I got thinking: would anyone out there buy a provincial army supplement for their respective armies?

What I mean by this is, take the Empire for example, that if GW produced soft-cover supplemenets (half the length or shorter then a full army book) for each province of the Empire, would anyone be interested in it?

The way I figure, each book could contain a good depth of fluff for that region, provincial heroes and special characters, colour schemes, conversion ideas, even possibly special army rules, their own historical magic items, a provincial-specific unit all kinds of stuff (tons of fluff mind you).

These books could be Official or not, I don't care.

I used the Empire as an example, but you could have the HE supplements (each a different kingdom), a DE supplement (each a different city), etc...

I like the idea myself (hence why bothered to post about it). It would give a lot of history to that region, how you could tailor your army to that specific area, etc...

Anyway, just a thought (it ain't gonna happen anyway)... What do you all think?

Drogmir
14-03-2008, 02:34
I would like it,

Ex. a army from Sylvania might have a Witch Hunter Hero and a Special Priest of Sigmar.

Specialized province cities like Nuln might get army bonuses like better guns but suffer in CC for balance.

mistformsquirrel
14-03-2008, 02:47
I like it. I could easily see, for example, a Mortal Chaos version, focusing on the different northern tribes; a Beasts of Chaos one giving examples of Beastmen beyond the well known ones in the Old World, etc...

IronBrother
14-03-2008, 02:53
It would be more fun than playing just normal Empire, or Chaos for that matter. Beasts, however, are a different story the book represents so many options and you can already convert and paint them to have so much variance. But, yes I would buy it.

burad
14-03-2008, 02:58
Just like many of the 40k legions have their own codexes, the Empire provinces could have their own sourcebooks. That would allow you to build the whole army of Ostland of you wanted, for instance. And some of us, especially the old historical gamers like me, would do that.
It would be good to see some provincial army fluff, 'cause the provincial troop lists in Sigmar's Heirs are just too small. Only Reikland would have an army of any size in that book.

SV_Harlequin
14-03-2008, 03:10
No, its a horrible Idea. 1 book for each province/army variant/region would mean hundreds of books with practically similar stuff in all of them. The other problem is there isn't enough info for each thing to have something different from the other that would make it need its own book.
The only differance for example for High Elves is that each Province has its own Unique Regiment which is other than that its just compisition.
It would be better and make more sense just to inlcude Province, Region, etc Options/Variants in the books like they used to do but this time actually thought out properly.

trendkill
14-03-2008, 04:09
in all honesty i would like to see something along the lines of a forge world imperial armour book.. a big thick book that is essentially a historical view of a war that happened, except on a fantasy level.

so you'd see feudal rankings, different towns, different belief systems.

Leogun_91
14-03-2008, 09:34
I would buy it but there would probobly be alot of them if they came and probobly to many. Empire would need 12 as one would be needed for each province (maybe a bigger one for the moot) and each dwarf hold should have one, the ogre tribes (there are like eight mentioned in the current book) and alot more

FurryMiguell
14-03-2008, 09:43
yes, yeees! That would be great, though I think that an army of sylvania should also be able to include a vampire and some undead troops (you know, some of the villagers are still loyal to the vampire rulers of old:p)

I already have the Stirland armybook ready. got loads of fluff and pictures, maps and everything for it;)

Cheers:D

Dr Death
14-03-2008, 09:55
On the whole i dislike the idea- it promotes 'novelty' one trick pony type armies over a balanced, 'flavoured' approach acheived by having a flexible core army list. Dont get me wrong, i'm all for background material and in depth looks at the individual trends among states, tribes, provinces, cities or baronies, but i think they're best served by careful army choice than with individsualised sub-books.

Another problem is that it promotes unnaturally effective choices. Taking the Empire as an example, we hear that northern provinces have a predillection for spearmen, now if each sub-book was to be perfectly balanced, then the fundamental problems of choosing spearmen over other state troops would be nullified, thus rendering the entire army into various shades of grey averageness. An army is characterised by its weaknesses as well as its strengths and so any fundamental imbalance needs to be adressed at a game level than at an army level to ensure that each weapon and troop 'group' (regiments, skirmishers, characters, warmachines) operate effectively when fielded with intelligence.

So all this considered, i prefer the 'Eldar codex way' wherein a single book includes a malleable list capable of being formed into any number of varients without bending those core rule principles.

Dr Death

Chiron
14-03-2008, 14:23
Far better to have 1 book covering all 12 than 12 seperate books. Of course if GW hadnt cancelled BI we could have appealed for a more indepth sourcebook on each province instead of the thin write ups we have in Sigmars Heirs

Or if they'd bothered to add about half a page more for differing core/special/rare choices dependent on Lord characters we wouldnt be in the situation we are in now where only the Archlector shows up at a battle on his trusty wheelchair of death...

Call it another 2 pages in the main book and we neednt bother with the sourcebooks at all as it'd all be in one place.

EvC
14-03-2008, 15:31
Well it depends on how deep a system you'd like to play. Every race is far too diverse to really be covered in an army book; you wouldn't just see one unique unit in each province with High Elves for example, a Lothern list could look like the Storm of Chaos list, an Averlorn list would have the Maiden Guard in it, and even Treemen!

And Empire, they may just be men, but very different. Provinces have different Templar orders that could define how their Knights work, different Warrior Priests for differing Gods, more or less reliance on blackpowder etc. etc. I'd like it because it would really limit the cheesier things, not so many Steam Tanks or Arch Lectors (and indeed, make the armies less of a one-trick pony) like Chiron says. Could be something for a Forge World-style operation, or a campaign book, which means, of course, no chance these das mate.

Sureshot05
14-03-2008, 15:45
I think as far as rules go this would just be horrific for balancing overall and should be left up to the players to theme their armies rather than having "Legion" rules for each province. Not to mention that why should race X get a series of sublists and not race Y. Pretty much every race in warhammer deserves a set of sublists, but these should just be themed armies, not with rules and things.

For instance, I field a Night Goblin army. It requires a tiny amount of the count as rule and provides me with a lovely themed force for Waaagh Shaguman. Similary, I build my Empire force around representives of the Church of Sigmar in Middenheim. In a city where they are treated as a second rate god, and much abused, if fun to give them all the "rubbish" that the main Middenlander army refuses to take.

Rules for sub groups and provinces tie players imaginations down and tend to show player that can't be bothered to work on a theme for themselves. If you want a Northern themed force, take lots of spearmen, if you want a Nuln themed force, take lots of handguns, engineers and artillery. The only thing stopping players is imagination.

But as for background - of course, more background info the better, as long as there are exploitable gaps!

TheDarkDuke
14-03-2008, 17:08
Rules no. If say BL made nice fluff books detailing units, army formations and stories for each army and their different realms would be a yes. SoC showed the problem with this idea of armies, great ideas but gamewise way to powerful compared to any army book army.

Red_Duke
14-03-2008, 17:17
Rules no. If say BL made nice fluff books detailing units, army formations and stories for each army and their different realms would be a yes. SoC showed the problem with this idea of armies, great ideas but gamewise way to powerful compared to any army book army.

I agree. And if they did do region specific rules, how many armies do you think would start popping up from Nuln again i wonder? ;)

Jedi152
14-03-2008, 17:20
I'd have loved more in depth and more 'official' appendix lists.

Empire states, Bretonnian duchy's, Dwarf holds etc.

I'd give my eye teeth for a book (either BL or WFRP) going into more detail about each province - a chapter each with plenty of uniforms, equipment, superstitions, and folklores rather than the page or 3 we get in Sigmar's Heirs.

Count Zero
14-03-2008, 17:27
the problem is that they dont even have all the main army books up to scratch yet, so i dont know how they would devote more man hours on mkaing these and would they make more people buy empire etc?

decker_cky
14-03-2008, 17:35
Separate armylists would be silly. You can already do fairly well themed armylists with most of the recent armylists.

As something like the Liber Chaoticas and Liber Necris, I think it's a great idea. Developing the background further outside of armybooks is a nice way to build the world.

Actually....scrap all this....I'd love for there to be some PROGRESS in the background more than some rehashed old fluff.

EvC
14-03-2008, 18:23
Rules for sub groups and provinces tie players imaginations down and tend to show player that can't be bothered to work on a theme for themselves. If you want a Northern themed force, take lots of spearmen, if you want a Nuln themed force, take lots of handguns, engineers and artillery. The only thing stopping players is imagination.

I think the point of such an expansion would be so that people would no longer view those armies in the extremely dull one-dimensional manner that you demonstrate... imagination? Surely there's more to Nuln than blackpowder!