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immortal99
08-10-2005, 06:39
are all the eldar which fight women? or are some men?

TomKamakazi
08-10-2005, 06:50
Been playing against a howling banshee army of doom?

No, eldar armys are made up of both men and women in reasonably eaqual proportions (although only 1 in 4 guardians on the sprue are female). It's only Banshees that are exclusively female.

Khaine's Messenger
08-10-2005, 07:06
Well, the models for the Banshees are all female at least. I'm pretty sure that there are male Howling Banshees....

DantesInferno
08-10-2005, 07:13
2nd ed Codex Eldar:

Unlike most other Aspects the Howling Banshees are almost always female Eldar, for the Banshee is said to be a female spirit.

"Almost always...." would indicate there are some male Banshees out there somewhere.

Nazguire
08-10-2005, 07:36
2nd ed Codex Eldar:

"Almost always...." would indicate there are some male Banshees out there somewhere.


Indeed this could make us wonder whether there is sexism within the race of Eldar, especially when given towards this Howling Banshees and 'almost always female'. Would male Howling Banshees be looked down upon? Would they be looked upon in awe likewise? Or would sexism be utterly incomprehensibel to the Eldar?

DantesInferno
08-10-2005, 07:42
Indeed this could make us wonder whether there is sexism within the race of Eldar, especially when given towards this Howling Banshees and 'almost always female'. Would male Howling Banshees be looked down upon? Would they be looked upon in awe likewise? Or would sexism be utterly incomprehensibel to the Eldar?

Seems to be natural to be curious about statistical anomalies, at least among humans, and I can't see any reason for Eldar to be any different. Whether this curiousity would necessarily be converted into prejudice or disapproval is another matter, but I'd guess there'd still be a lot of pressure to conform in Eldar society, just like good old human society.

But I think the general idea is that Eldar do not distinguish between the sexes anywhere near the level we do in contemporary human society.

Nazguire
08-10-2005, 08:42
Seems to be natural to be curious about statistical anomalies, at least among humans, and I can't see any reason for Eldar to be any different. Whether this curiousity would necessarily be converted into prejudice or disapproval is another matter, but I'd guess there'd still be a bt of pressure to conform in Eldar society, just like good old human society.

But I think the general idea is that Eldar do not distinguish between the sexes anywhere near the level we do in contemporary human society.'

There is probably more pressure to conform then even Human society. The Path for example is something that everyone is pressured to do in Eldar society, and if you don't you are outcast: Path of the Outcast, or pressured to leave and become an Outcast.

Xhalax
08-10-2005, 14:59
In novel fluff....they seem to go with female Howling Banshees...with the exception of one book that I'm sure had a male Howling Banshees in it...but I can't remember if that's true or not or if I just imagined it.

And some of the novel Farseers seem to be female too.

But that's just my limited observations. So I'd go with HBs female, everything else a mix.

Mikari
08-10-2005, 15:25
Banshees are not frowned up on any more then any other aspect. The only path we know that is frowned upon is the pirate and outcast (both are pretty much the same). Other wise they encourage you to take the path your soul desires the most.

Xhalax
08-10-2005, 15:28
Although at times, I do feel that there are some aspects that are less favourable to have around at times, but are tolerated more than anything.

Tastyfish
08-10-2005, 15:55
I would say in the Howling Banshee example, whilst you are a Howling Banshee you are considered female regardless of what may or may not be there under the suit, whilst Dire Avengers (most of the others actually) are likely considered male as they are being aspects of Khaine. Though its probably a langauge thing like the european (and other) masculine and feminine words (german Die, Ders and Das etc) that has been vaguely translated as gender for humans.

Unless you are on the Path of the Mother, Suitor/Maiden etc your sex is probably irrelevant and not something Eldar would notice. Which makes me wonder (along with a thread from old portent) whether or not this apparently whether Eldar have the equivalent of a breeding season naturally and outside of this the normally solitary proto-Eldars would have just driven off a potential mate as if they were a rival.

Dark Reapers are generally seen as unlucky, though it might just be Maugen Ra who is the bad omen

Emperor's Light
08-10-2005, 16:01
I just figured that you could be a male howling banshee, but the armor you wear would still be sculpted with, er, female assets.

Just as you look at the models for the other aspects they have male anatomy. I assume that the warrior beneath is not necessarily male.

Although I think some of the guardian models have boobs and most don't, which would tend to disprove my theory...

Mikari
08-10-2005, 17:40
you could also be both and "switch" in battle. If a male put on a howling banshee's armour the soul stone would still take some control of him (this happens to all Eldar to some degree, depending on how focused they are, aspects/phoniex warriors being the extreme). So it could be you become "female" in your mind, yet stay male in erm.. body

Tastyfish
08-10-2005, 18:47
Exarch suits are special, the normal suit of the aspect warrior will just have the Eldar's normal soul stone which would be empty until his death. I think it takes more than one soul to generate the infinity circuit type thing required for you to be able to lose your personality to the group, if these even happens (which I doubt, the stones normally have to be placed within an infinity circuit if they want to talk to people)

Mikari
08-10-2005, 20:56
Some Eldar fluff(second ed for example) implies when Eldar done the amour the peronality changes. Some still remain "partly themselvs" while others seemto fully change.

If you notice most eldar models (even guardians) have several stones on them. If I remember correctly it's 1 on the breast (I thinkt i capture the soul) then others dotted around weapons and on the helmet (two in some cases on the helmet). Farseers have insane numbers of them..

So it's highly likely IMO for the original stones owners to have some influence over the armour and person inside it, just not enough to take full control like the extreme aspects and phoniex lords.

Tastyfish
08-10-2005, 21:01
But that would mean that for some reason you are putting more souls at risk than just the living (which is bad enough) and makes the sacrafice of the Wraithguard a lot less, I think the Eldar just like gems (or use crystal based computers). Seem to remember a story from a certain collection of background material that will shall only allude to that seems to imply that the personality change has more to do with the more rigid way of thinking that occurs when you are actually doing the thing that your path is supposed to.

When meditating the Eldar might be more like the Eldar you know, but when they are actually being a Howling Banshee they are fully focused on that identity. Thinking about it they would make really good spies with some kind of cameoline

Nazguire
08-10-2005, 21:09
Some Eldar fluff(second ed for example) implies when Eldar done the amour the peronality changes. Some still remain "partly themselvs" while others seemto fully change.

If you notice most eldar models (even guardians) have several stones on them. If I remember correctly it's 1 on the breast (I thinkt i capture the soul) then others dotted around weapons and on the helmet (two in some cases on the helmet). Farseers have insane numbers of them..

So it's highly likely IMO for the original stones owners to have some influence over the armour and person inside it, just not enough to take full control like the extreme aspects and phoniex lords.

I'd say that any additional stones could very well be simple jewellery or battlefield systems of the armour. Farseers may have a heap of weird looking stones covered on their armour, however these may be simply empty soul stones, and used for communing with the Infinity Circuit.

Some Aspects are looked upon as unlucky, and their Phoenix Lords looked upon as detrimental to the group. Whenever Maugan Ra has exited the Webway with a sizeable host of Dark Reaper bodyguards (Chaos invasion, Tyranid assault on Iyanden) something terrible has happened to the Eldar. Therefore he and his Aspect are looked upon as bad, for the Eldar think "perhaps it is not only the souls of the enemy that the Dark Phoenix Lord reaps"

Flame Boy
12-10-2005, 21:02
I would imagine that it is entirely possible that a male Eldar joining the aspect of the Banshee would bond with the feminine spirit of the aspect, but I doubt to the Eldar it makes a huge amount of difference. They would just be wearing a persona, and I doubt there a gender pressures, it would be more important that the Eldar in question follows the path that calls to them.

I would like to see more female Eldar warriors, as it is an aspect of Eldar culture that marks them out as different to other 40k races.

It would be a nice touch to see a female Fire Dragon, for example, and the female Farseer in the Dawn of War game is a great example to set.

Essentially, the Eldar myths place the Howling Banshee aspect as a path that is governed by a female spirit, so it is likely that the female Eldar may find themselves drawn to the aspect above others, but I doubt that any warrior aspects are gender-exclusive.

malika
12-10-2005, 21:20
IIRC the Eldar considered gender (male of female) to be a purely thing on the outside, so a corporeal thing, their souls do not have genders or something in those lines.

Dr Death
13-10-2005, 12:13
I think gender identity isnt such a big issue with the eldar as a species as it is for us "more primitive" species. Imho, eldar men are naturally more feminine than those of the human race but that doesnt mean they're feminine in the sense of some (making sure not to generalise here, i could be on rocky ground if misenterpreted) homosexual male humans, in the sense of "campness". For example a male howling banshee would probably not be any more interested in the finer points of interior design than a heterosexual one.

Rather the Eldar species has evolved to a point where such a trivial matter of personal biology has no meaning, the mindsets of male and female are akin, different enough in the deeper levels of thought but similar enough not to influence the way one acts to another or to a given situation.

I do doubt however that a male howling banshee would have to make do with a suit of armour bearing breast cups (lets not beat around the bush here) but as to the spirits contained within any given item an eldar uses, they would not give a monkeys whether they be male or female.

Dr Death

Flame Boy
13-10-2005, 19:54
I do doubt however that a male howling banshee would have to make do with a suit of armour bearing breast cups (lets not beat around the bush here) but as to the spirits contained within any given item an eldar uses, they would not give a monkeys whether they be male or female.

Dr Death


That's an interesting point, you assume that a new Aspect Warrior inherits an Aspect suit from a previous owner. Would they really have to worry about hand-me-downs, or were you actually implying that the aspiring Aspect Warrior would have to "make do" with conforming to the female aesthetic of the Warrior Aspect?

I know, it might seem like a trivial point, but I thought it was important to clarify for some reason. Unless I misread the context of Dr Death's setence, it implies material scarcity on Craftworld life I'd never previously considered. I assumed manpower (and Spirit-Power in the case of Wraith-constructs) was the Eldar's only real material limitation.

*Edit* Sorry, I didn't notice, but Doctor Death's quote said that a male Banshe warrior would not have to make do with a female suit of armour, That's what you get for skim-reading, folks.

Centurion Cajun
14-10-2005, 05:22
Their identification sexually, or lack thereof, explains greatly their slow reproduction. The entire Eldar race seems so preoccupied with their jobs and avoiding getting their souls eaten that they don't get to making babies.

Alco Engineer
14-10-2005, 05:51
And also because pleasure is what drove the Eldar to the fall so the act of "Making babies" would only be done if absolutely neccisary. I imagine if they enjoyed it too much Slaneesh might grab hold of them and try to get their soul.

Centurion Cajun
14-10-2005, 06:29
Also, since they live for near on forever I doubt they feel the need to "do it right now." They keep putting it off for so long that they get killed some way and never get around to it.

Alco Engineer
14-10-2005, 06:36
And I also think that if a 40y.o human needs a little blue pill to help him out imagine what a 500y.o. Eldar would need??

Also with regard to the "breast plates" on the Eldar women. I imagine not all Eldar women are a C-D cup so why don't we see any flat chests? I guess that it's just as feasable for the men to be wearing the busty armour as it is for the flat chested eldar women to be wearing them too. (Plus there's nothing wrong with a guy dreesing up as a chick once in a while.....Isn't that right He Who Laughs??)

Centurion Cajun
14-10-2005, 07:01
Maybe they're worked the Eldar genetics to such perfection that all women are incredibly well endowed.:p

Gallant
17-10-2005, 06:10
And I also think that if a 40y.o human needs a little blue pill to help him out imagine what a 500y.o. Eldar would need??


Popsicle sticks and duct tape.