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Necronoxz
16-03-2008, 01:09
I think its a realy vampire army now and I think characters like necromancers and wight kings going to be verry rare in a vampire count army.

:cheese: Necromancers: :cheese:
Necromancers stay alway's lvl 1 wizards while a vampire hero can be increased to a lvl 2
the only statment for me to take a necromancer now is while I must have the Van hell's dance macabre spell. And even then when I have it on my necro I wil be able to cast it only once. 1 PD from the wizard 2 Generated by my army itself so that's a averige roll of 9you can take a black periapt so you have 1 PD more and having a averange trow of 12 (3 each dice). But when I do that I cant take anny bond spell with my necro. Mayby I just take a lvl 4 lord with forbidden lore and I have all spells ;)

wight kings
The only part to take wight kings is for joining your black knights. your wight king can take barded skeleton steeds. somthing your vampire can not. If your vampire with a barded nightmare join your black knight's you dont have your ethereal movement annymore. and if your wight king join a unit black knights you still have it ;).

are more people think like this or is it just me? I like to get other resons why I should consider a necromancer or a wight king so hit me with feedback

GodHead
16-03-2008, 01:22
Well the reason to choose a necromancer is because they are very cheap and can tailor their magic spells to whatever you want them to accomplish. They are incredibly cheap compared to Vampires, almost on a 2 for 1 basis.

Wight kings are incredibly good. With T5, 3W and killing blow, they can easily defeat most Lord level characters in the game, for a mere 75 points. They make the ULTIMATE BSB, being harder, tougher and deadlier than any other BSB I can think of (barring a Slann...).

Neither of these options is bad, and either of them could easily find a place in any competitive army.

SuperBeast
16-03-2008, 01:58
For a tournament list, you need balance.
Vamps skew your force in very specific directions.

I strongly expect that 2K forces will eventually settle down to 2 vamps, tops.
Wights are cheaper as are necros - and arguably both offer better role-specific bang-for-buck than a similarly pointed vamp.
They also free up valuable points for your special and rare units as well as your "non-core" core units.
My current "theoryhammer" list is Vamp, 2 Necros on carts (with specific roles for each) and a Wight BSB.
Vamps are poison candy; you always want more, but too much will mess you up.

Necronoxz
16-03-2008, 02:25
well the part of the wight kings I agre if you play them in a unit of wight's.

But unfortonly the part of the Necromancer I disagre with you they can be verry cheap but the only spells he can get is Raise dead, IoN, Van hells dance macabre. I dont play with zombies so Raise dead is ussless for me, leaves IoN and van hells dance macabre, All vampires have automaticly IoN so this is something I dont need to worry about aldo Vanhel's dance Macabre is a verry usfull spell and with a necromancer you can cast this one only 1 time maximun, if you make your vampire lvl 2 you can cast it twice ;)

Necromancer 55 points
extra necromancer spell 15 points (so I have IoN and vanhel's dance macabre)
than I can choise I can put it on a nightmare 15 points, corpse cart 75 points or buy a unit of skelletons to join it in somewhere around 200points

WHEN RIDING A NIGHTMARE it can join my bloodknights or black knights but I dont want it in my black knights that's for sure becouse I like the ethereal movement and my bloodknights are the main target for shooting and magic from my oponent becouse they are dangerouse.

WHEN JOINING A UNIT OF SKELETONS the wizard is save for shooting and for most magic, but it's expensive but it's a core choise ofc.
But when I choise for the Skelleton option I mayby bether getting a vampire so I can raise my skelletons beyon there starting valuta using IoN and Lord of dead with a combination of a tomb blade it gets much more effetive.
I also can take 3 unit's of ghouls for my core choises and spent the rest on heavy cavalery like black knights and blood knights and this is awsome powerfull. (played alway's blood dragons with 4 unit's of black knights or 1 winged nightmare and 3 unit's black knights it realy is nasty and works) but my necromancer leaving in a unit of ghouls dont think so...

WHEN RIDING A CORPSE CART it wil be a easy target again for shooting and magic again, most opponents will relay on the fact that you have another bound spell on your corpse cart so this can be bluff or you can use it. the only bad thing is that it al are 6" range effects if you use it a corpse cart comes out on 100-125 points.

But I think this is the best option for my necromancer is the corpse cart at the way I play.
But now it turns out that my necro's point valuta is between 145 and 245 points
Necromancer 55
+15 vanhel's dance macabre
+0-50 magic items
+75 corpse cart
+0-25-50 1 or 2 extra powers
totaal: 145-245 points
and a vampire joining a unit of skeletons cost me only: 200points max

but when I take a vampire lvl 2 I have a decent combat Unit what can join my blood knights or a unit of skelletons ofcourse and as I discriped before here I can bether make use of a vampire with Lord of dead and tomb blade then a necromancer. and also becouse I want to keep my black knights moving I use tomb kings if they get join by characters in stead of vampire's But this is something that need some thinking becouse it's only 1" and the positive site is they alway's can march becouse there is always a vampire character withing 6".
So I can leave my vampire in the skelletons or blood knights and mayby even in black knights it's just what a player choise for.

Necronoxz
16-03-2008, 02:33
@ SuperBeast
last weekend I had a tourney 2k here in the area I ending at the thith place (less painting points :( ) and my only characters where a vampire lord and a vampire hero
so only 2 characters on 2k will work also ;)
I played agains:
first match: dwarf gunline
Second match: High elf infantery heavy magic
Thirth match: wood elf three army

so I face heavy shooting heavy magic and heavy T4 trees who kick hard.
and I overcome all of them making good use from IoN (with some lucky rolls ofc.) and my dmg spells ;)

so your theory will not alway's work ofcourse ;)

Spirit
16-03-2008, 03:42
I think its a realy vampire army now and I think characters like necromancers and wight kings going to be verry rare in a vampire count army.

:cheese: Necromancers: :cheese:
Necromancers stay alway's lvl 1 wizards while a vampire hero can be increased to a lvl 2
the only statment for me to take a necromancer now is while I must have the Van hell's dance macabre spell. And even then when I have it on my necro I wil be able to cast it only once. 1 PD from the wizard 2 Generated by my army itself so that's a averige roll of 9you can take a black periapt so you have 1 PD more and having a averange trow of 12 (3 each dice). But when I do that I cant take anny bond spell with my necro. Mayby I just take a lvl 4 lord with forbidden lore and I have all spells ;)

wight kings
The only part to take wight kings is for joining your black knights. your wight king can take barded skeleton steeds. somthing your vampire can not. If your vampire with a barded nightmare join your black knight's you dont have your ethereal movement annymore. and if your wight king join a unit black knights you still have it ;).

are more people think like this or is it just me? I like to get other resons why I should consider a necromancer or a wight king so hit me with feedback


Ok, necromancers. The black periapt adds a dice to your pool dice so a vampire can have it, and the necromancer can use it, so he gets 2x 2dice castings of vanhells AND a bound vanhells and he can let you put a corpse cart in a unit. All for about100 points (not inc corpse cart)

I always have one in games above 2k


Wight lords. They are toughness five and have three wounds, AND killing blow with three attacks and skeletal steeds and can have a bsb with no downside to their abilities. All for under 150 points.

I cannot see why you would notwant one.

When you are spending 1000 points on characters in 2k, these beauties give you good abilities at a reduced cost.

Edit: Also are you aware a mounted character can join ANY unit and not get picked out from shooting any more. As long as he is less that US 5 he cant be shot. So a nightmare OR a corpse cart will stop him (and the cart) being shot.

forgottenlor
16-03-2008, 07:49
A vampire caster who is lvl 1 costs almost double that of a necromancer. Since you can`t buy him standard equipment we are talking 20 points extra at least so he is effective in combat. If one wants him to be a lvl 2 wizard thats an extra 30 points. That means a very sparsely equipped vampire is already 2 and 1/2 times as expensive as a necromancer. On the other hand even a naked necromancer gives one a spell of choice and an extra dispel and power dice. In my opinion thats not bad for the points. One could also give him a black periapt as discussed or a bound item such as the book of Akhan and he can be effective sitting in the back.

The wight king costs 25 points less than a naked vampire, and is already well equipped for combat with his death blow sword, heavy armour and a shield. If you want a similarly equipped vampire, we are talking 50 points more. And as already pointed out the wight king can take more damage. The wight kings low WS can be made up for by a number of banners, as well as the crown with which a vampire can transfer his WS. If I was using either wights or black knights, I would definately take a wight lord. If one is not using these units, I could see not taking one.

Necronoxz
16-03-2008, 09:31
yes I am conviced about the wight king already noted that.
but the necromancer is not bad for his points but I never play with zombies and skeletons so the only option is a corpse cart for me and I think than it get's a little expensive that way. I dont think a necromancer on corpse cart for 145-245 points can make up for his points! while a vampire you can use in 2 way's combat and magical. so he alway's gets his points out. a wight king I think he also get's hes points out when he comes in combat but the necromancer nah...

Milney
16-03-2008, 10:15
I love Wight Kings (but then again, I love Grave Guard so I was always going to).

For 150pts you can get a monster of a BSB;

Wight King
Sword of Kings, The Flayed Hauberk
Battle Standard Bearer

3 Killing Blow A's (which kill on a 5+ !) with T5 and a 2+ armour save. Tasty.

As for Necromancers, they're very specialised.

Personally I would only ever take one in an army (as it gives a nice cheap +1 dispel dice in addition to its spells).

The three combinations I would use would be as follows:

Necromancer
Invocation of Nehek
Black Periapt
Corpse Cart, Unholy Lodestone

-Cheap healer for your rank and file troops. Mainly used in a VC army which doesn't have a "Mastery" Vampire herding your main battle line.

Necromancer
Raise Dead
Sceptre de Noirot
Corpse Cart, Unholy Lodestone

-Slightly more expensive, but acts as a very nice Zombie raising unit.

Necromancer
Vanhel's Danse Macabre
The Book of Arkhan

-Combined with a Vampire using Black Periapt (or if for some reason using 2 Necromancers, one with Black Periapt) this Necromancer acts as steroids for the main battle line. Potentially getting Vanhel's off 3 times a turn, this little fellow can seriously speed up your force.

Of course if using them to amplify your Necromantic Abilities doesn't float your boat they are always a really cheap Scroll Caddy:

Necromancer
2 Dispel Scrolls
Corpse Cart, Balefire

205 pts for: 1 Dispel Dice, 2 Scrolls, and a -1 to enemy casts (not to mention an additional bound spell).

All in all, whilst being very specialist for a single role on a battle field, this also means that if played correctly they'll never waste points (which some Mages have a tendancy to do - for instance Magic Missile caddies frequently end up being tasty VP treats as they roll support spells and vice versa).

Oberon
16-03-2008, 11:09
Ion, vanhel, scroll, and power stone=115, someone else bears black periapt->3 pool dice, and one for necro->2 2dice castings of vanhel and one on power stone when I really need it, for a lot cheaper than I could ever take a vamp (I have a tendency to fill up the allowances). When not casting vanhel again and again, he can fix up something else with his one own dice.

Being cheap is very nice in an army where heroes can cost 200pts.

W0lf
16-03-2008, 12:11
Necromancers i cant help you with.

Wight king, now...

- Best bsb choice, incredibly cheap and so hard to kill.
- Sword of kings scares the pants of most people. T5 3 wounds and the ability to killing blow 400+ pt lords on a 5+ :O. Hes only 100 pts aswell. Add flayed haulberk and/or bsb and your onto a winner.
-Lead black knights, fairly obvious..

But serously a 75 pt hero with T5 and 3 wounds is absolutly mental, give him the bloody haulberk and hes got a 2+/5+. Hes as surviavable as any other LORD choice. Oh and you heal D6 wounds back to him so...

Which reminds me.. why am i not taking one?

Spirit
16-03-2008, 15:09
Also, to the OP, if your not using zombies, you are simply losing out.

I don't BUY them for the army but they are amazingly good at being raised, i cant see why you wouldn't use them. They are such a versatile unit. Table quarters, tar pitting, war machine killing, flankers, line of sight blockers. At 50 points a pop for a unit of 5, (or 10 with item) when gt bumped by at LEAST 5, every time you cast I.o.n on them, your just shooting yourself in the foot by "never playing with them"

Negafex
16-03-2008, 21:12
necromancers are great if you stick em on a corpse cart, so while your corpse carts are buffing your infantry they can be creating new infantry to buff, and the corpse carts give em a fair amount more survivability(though im not sure if you combine the necro and corpsecarts wounds or if you have to randomise hits against them or if someones wounds are just discounted)

as for wight kings i havent feilded any as i generally use all my hero slots for enough vampires to keep my army marching though they look fairly difficult to kill and definitely deadly even with a mundane weapon due to the wight blade special rules

NecroNurgle
16-03-2008, 21:23
Oh and you heal D6 wounds back to him so...


I completely agree wtih everything else you said, but a wightking is a non-infantry model so he only gets one wound back per casting of IoN.

W0lf
16-03-2008, 21:26
why is he non-infantry???

on foot hes infantry and hes not a vampire so its D6.. no?

][nquist0r
17-03-2008, 03:04
The combo I am facing fairly commonly is the wight king in the graveguard giving them all regeneration with their friggen 2 handed weapons. They ate a chariot and giant in 2 rounds. Its one of those things you get used to running from.