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Smokedog
16-03-2008, 16:14
I´ve been a way for a while, so forgive me if this has already been said.

I have recerntly been informed that there are many more changes which may (or may not) suprise us.

FLEET. Aparently units with fleet will be allowed to assault.... out of vehicles!
Not sure about this one, but example given were howling banshees... so it could be eldar specific...

BOX SET. Is going to be amazing, over 100 models.. not much new there, but the guy was very exited.

PRICES. I know this is a taboo subject. but GW may be looking at reducing their prices, or at least giving more value for money... no more info on that sorry..

TEMPLATES for new 40k. These are going to be bigger, with the main change being the flamer template. Not sure how much bigger though.

Thats all I can remember... feel free to correct me if any of this has been said/disputed before.

static grass
16-03-2008, 16:32
Fleeting out of vehicles to assault. I can hear the whine and cheese brigade coming for this one. It would be a big boost for the eldar but given the changes to Defense weapons it might balance things out.

The price thing might be true but apocalypse offered discounts for buying in bulk and GW still made virtually no profit last year and virtually an identical amount to the previous. I think that GW have priced themselves up one way street and I am not convinced that lower prices will mean more sales.

Bigger templates! The small blast template has always annoyed me. 1 hit and 1 partial is all it is good for most of the time. I thought the flame template was pretty good value though already. Still it is nice to see GW breaking another link between warhammer and 40K.

Hang on... that means I have to buy a new set of.... ;)

advinius
16-03-2008, 16:47
hmmm. Could be very interesting, if these pan out. I'd be especially curious as to what new templates might look like.

Gensuke626
16-03-2008, 21:25
I´ve been a way for a while, so forgive me if this has already been said.

I have recerntly been informed that there are many more changes which may (or may not) suprise us.

FLEET. Aparently units with fleet will be allowed to assault.... out of vehicles!
Not sure about this one, but example given were howling banshees... so it could be eldar specific...

BOX SET. Is going to be amazing, over 100 models.. not much new there, but the guy was very exited.

PRICES. I know this is a taboo subject. but GW may be looking at reducing their prices, or at least giving more value for money... no more info on that sorry..

TEMPLATES for new 40k. These are going to be bigger, with the main change being the flamer template. Not sure how much bigger though.

Thats all I can remember... feel free to correct me if any of this has been said/disputed before.

Pics or it didn't happen.

Or in this case Source or it's all lies, like delicious Cake.

Mostly I don't want to believe the rumors. Take that to mean what you will.

northoceanbeach
16-03-2008, 21:37
Fleeting out of vehicles can't possibly happen. It would swing the balance one way too far.

Lower prices would be good, but I'd be happy if they just let you still order bits and sprues. Have you seen how much a razrback turret is going for these days? And where do I get thunder hammers?

Blast templates definitely need a fixing. Flamers are to short and the mini blast is as close to worthless as anything I see.

wickedvoodoo
16-03-2008, 21:37
If this stuff is true then i will be happy. Very nice post Smokedog, i hope your informer was reliable because i like what he has to say.

Edit - I am saying i am happy about the assaulting from transports thing on a purely selfish basis mind, it will be great for my eldar.

Blarp
16-03-2008, 21:41
Well, the fleeting assault out of vehicles screws guard even more and benefits my Eldar-playing friend even more... But the larger templates benefit me. I like the idea of assaulting out of vehicles with fleet, though. It makes sense.

northoceanbeach
16-03-2008, 22:04
Doesn't assaulting out of vehicles make sense period? Maybe fleet can assault farther, but...

Crazy_Irish
17-03-2008, 00:16
Mh, that sounds just normal. Hey jeah, we are Dark Eldar, we have Transporters, they are open, that sucks but at least we can attack after we left the raider, oh wait look at our kin, they have a closed transporter, and they can also attack after goin out....mh now that sucks.
just another way to take the individual charackter of the Dark Eldar away from them.... :-(

kokujin_atsuhara
17-03-2008, 00:31
Mh, that sounds just normal. Hey jeah, we are Dark Eldar, we have Transporters, they are open, that sucks but at least we can attack after we left the raider, oh wait look at our kin, they have a closed transporter, and they can also attack after goin out....mh now that sucks.
just another way to take the individual charackter of the Dark Eldar away from them.... :-(


QfT

First...turboboost.
Next...this?

I hope it's not true, or at least, give another advantage to open vehicles.

CrimsonFury
17-03-2008, 02:43
They only just released the apocalypse templates which include the normal flame and large blast templates marked inside them so I can't see them changing the templates so soon.

The Dude
17-03-2008, 02:50
They only just released the apocalypse templates which include the normal flame and large blast templates marked inside them so I can't see them changing the templates so soon.

Good point.

Varath- Lord Impaler
17-03-2008, 03:56
I hope they do though, a nice 10-12" long flamer template would be sweet as sweet pie.

And with the new blast weapon rules, if the small blast gets bigger i may have to make my Perdus armoured Company (Leman Russ Conquerors all the way, baby)

but then the big blast would be...um...oh dear *eyes widen*

Maxis Lithium
17-03-2008, 05:26
Well, I do like the idea of new templates. Perhaps something on the order of a 7 inch template, or even the introduction of an aditional level of template (3, 5 & 7 inch as standard.)

The larger flame template would make the use of flamers more viable in the future.

Vaktathi
17-03-2008, 05:53
Doesn't assaulting out of vehicles make sense period? Maybe fleet can assault farther, but...

It does, however they removed it from non-open topped vehicles for a reason. It was broken. Imagine with the current Eldar codex, first turn harlie/scorpion/banshee charges? No thank you.

Alot of things in the current game don't make a whole lot of sense, but such is done for game balance reasons.

==Me==
17-03-2008, 06:24
FLEET. Aparently units with fleet will be allowed to assault.... out of vehicles!
Not sure about this one, but example given were howling banshees... so it could be eldar specific...

Unpossible, Eldar only get nerfed by 5th edition, anything said otherwise is lies and propaganda perpetrated by GW's wicked henchmen, the thrice-damned Marine players:rolleyes:

But seriously, those rumors intrigue ==Me==.

Fleeting out of vehicles would make it much better than running, but I just don't see fleeters being able to move 12(13)", disembark 2", run D6", and still assault. Maybe if the vehicle moved 6" or if they were unable to run. Otherwise we're back to Wave Serpent rush.

An uber starter like BfSP sounds great, though Fantasy armies need more models than 40k typically. I hope we'll get 500pts each of Orks and Marines, with nifty terrain hopefully.

The new pricing on the Orks and Eldar isn't too bad, at least for the boxes. I'd love to see Dreadnoughts (vehicles in general) and Assault Marines made affordable again.

I doubt templates will change in size, considering the aformentioned built-in templates in the Apoc set. Blast and big Blast templates, with the new rules, will be "bigger" in that they cover more models and can potentially do more damage.

Nexto
17-03-2008, 08:07
I also cant see fleeting out of closed vehicles true. Imagine 4 fortuned eldar tanks with harlies and banshees inside, hitting the enemy where ever they want by turn 2 while he cant do anything against it ... too nasty!

Smokedog
17-03-2008, 09:03
Just to clarify, I think the rule means units with the fleet ability will be able to assault out of vehicles.

I understand this to mean, move the vehicle then a 6" charge move, I dont see them bieng able to move, then 2" disembark, then fleet then assault. So we are looking at an 18" charge range, and as banshees can assault 18" anyway (if they are lucky) I can't see this being such a big issue....

Templates, pretty sure they are changing, just becuase they are etched on apolapse templates doesnt mean it isn't happening, I mean arn't they still selling vehicle damage dice, templates and 4th ed rulebooks....

Wrath
17-03-2008, 11:03
All I have heard so far just relates to running, nothing to do with vehicles, in reguard to fleet.

as to DE running is going to be huge for those guys. Raider moves, disembark, Run, assault. 12+d6+6 yes plz.

Crazy_Irish
17-03-2008, 11:54
as to DE running is going to be huge for those guys. Raider moves, disembark, Run, assault. 12+d6+6 yes plz.

Going to be? Face the reality i allready is. DE Raiders are open for a reason.

@Smokedog: It would be a big issu, because than the only thing that would make open toped transporters better dann cloesed ones, is the fact that they can all shoot from of the vehicle, BUT who gives a ****
My DE deserve an advantage compered to their Kin!

But because of CrimsonFury Point i'm comeing down now, it's a good point, so it will not be true.... no no, my little boys *speaks to a bunch of nacked plastik soldiers* you will be finde ....

Dynamo
17-03-2008, 12:49
Rather than making the templates bigger, how about just changing the rules to say partials hit. Like flamers?

My interpretation of the fleet out of vehicles is only disembark and charge 6". Not that great. Besides, eldar will have to expose their rear armour since a wave serpent and Falcon are about 7" long!

It's not great, but it's something I think makes sense, I mean they get lazy and lose fleet 'cos they take a ride? They can still shoot, but not choose not to and fleet, WTF!?

On top of this I reckon Deep-Striking Hawks and Warp Spiders should be able to also. Hawks are so flimsy when they DS and get shot to s**t. Spiders don't have reliable range when 2D6 scatter comes to play unless risking landing on the enemy and dying to the warp?

Just my thoughts.

artificer
17-03-2008, 13:01
Rather than making the templates bigger, how about just changing the rules to say partials hit. Like flamers?
...

This is exactly what the 5th ed rules DO say. Any hit is a wound.

Also, small blast weapons now scatter, but it's d6-BS, so you're most likely going to hit SOMETHING.

I really don't think that the template rumour is true, but I have been wrong before.

kokujin_atsuhara
17-03-2008, 13:04
Also, small blast weapons now scatter, but it's d6-BS, so you're most likely going to hit SOMETHING.


Is this confirmed, even if not present in the pdf?

Thanks a lot

anglacon
17-03-2008, 13:13
Not sure if it even matters about Dark Eldar anymore.
A rumor I heard had them being "Squatted".
I dismissed it as nonsense... after all, have'nt we all heard about the new models (which were not...) and how they are redoing the whole codex, etc....

then I read THIS from Brimstone....


Dark Eldar IF they did appear would be 2009 at the earliest.

The Warseer Inquisition

Um... EXCUSE me? IF they appear? And why did you take the time to underline it? You went out of your way to stress the "IF", as in, it might not happen at all!

This does not make me a happy camper... not at all....

-Anglacon

Neo799
17-03-2008, 13:38
Bigger flamer - roast more Orks. Me likey.

Deadmanwade
17-03-2008, 13:44
My DE deserve an advantage compered to their Kin!


Because having the best point value troops in the game just isnt good enough? 10 point lascannons (lances) not keeping you happy? Most DE players run generally the same list because the units which are good are VERY VERY good and the units which arent good are awful.

I'm going to laugh so hard if/when the new DE codex everyone is screaming for comes out and suddenly the one trick pony gets nerfed. Dont forget that most players get upset when they get their new dex. (CoughCHAOSchough)

I'll be happy with larger templates but I cant see it happening.

Stingray_tm
17-03-2008, 14:42
They only just released the apocalypse templates which include the normal flame and large blast templates marked inside them so I can't see them changing the templates so soon.

They just released the damage dice and those will be useless (unless used as markers) in 5th, too.

Inquisitor_Eljer
17-03-2008, 17:08
They only just released the apocalypse templates which include the normal flame and large blast templates marked inside them so I can't see them changing the templates so soon.

I'd have to agree. If GW was considering changing the existing template sizes they wouldn't have included them in the Apoc etchings of the larger templates.

Just my thoughts, and I'd personally love larger flamer templates given I primarily play flamer heavy Sisters.

static grass
17-03-2008, 18:42
There is no connection between the supposed size of 5th ed templates and the apoc ones. The easiest explanation for the current ones being inside the apoc ones is that someone said "hey put the existing ones in there too" so that people can use them for the normal stuff too". It doesn't imply anything else.

I am not saying anyone is right or wrong. either.

Ozendorph
17-03-2008, 18:58
I'd say there's a better chance of them including an additional template than altering any existing ones. Maybe the return of the dreaded flame pistol template ;)

Inquisitor_Eljer
17-03-2008, 22:02
I'd say there's a better chance of them including an additional template than altering any existing ones. Maybe the return of the dreaded flame pistol template ;)

Which might apply to my Seraphim...or they might add a slightly larger 'Heavy Flamer' template. Or no change at all.

How many units currently have hand-flamers? I don't see them being very prevailant so I doubt they'd add a whole new template unless they're staging it for other uses or something.

electricblooz
17-03-2008, 22:25
This is exactly what the 5th ed rules DO say. Any hit is a wound.

Also, small blast weapons now scatter, but it's d6-BS, so you're most likely going to hit SOMETHING.


It's 2d6-BS which translates to 51% accuracy with the big (5") blast...

Please don't overstate how supposedly god-like blast weapons are going to be.....

artificer
18-03-2008, 01:41
It's 2d6-BS which translates to 51% accuracy with the big (5") blast...

Please don't overstate how supposedly god-like blast weapons are going to be.....

A THOUSAND pardons, oh great one, but which pdf version are you looking at?

As for god-like, I'm fairly certain I didn't use anything approximating that description.

If we like to look at it logically, without all the emo-whining, we'll see a few things.

1) You have a 1/3 chance of dropping right where you need with a scatter die.

2) Now models partially covered are hit with full wounds, in most cases increasing by a avg of 50% the number of mods hit from said blast (based against current rules, for 1 and a partial, with the partial only 'hitting' on a 4+).

3) IF you deviate, the likelyhood that you'll hit SOMETHING in the unit is pretty fair, as, IF it's 2d6-BS (for the guard averaging out to 4").
If you originally aimed the blast into the middle of a moderately spread out squad (which is what you TEND to see, as nobody wants 5 guys under a blast), you're likely to clip at least one model on average with the deviation, which will now be a straight hit.

4) no more 'damn! I rolled a two and this massive blast of plasma energy just vanishes into the warp'. It's always 'out there' on the table, and you're most likely going to hit something (see #3).

So, god-like... no, but I don't really see what all the fuss is about.

Wrath
18-03-2008, 02:01
the 2d6<added together> -BS is from Harry in this forum.

He has also dropped a few other changes to the PDF.

knightwire
18-03-2008, 03:56
Pics or it didn't happen.

Or in this case Source or it's all lies, like delicious Cake.

Mostly I don't want to believe the rumors. Take that to mean what you will.

I can assure you that this is absolutely true...

Cake is delicious.

Wrath
18-03-2008, 09:33
......you don't werk for aperture science do you?

Varath- Lord Impaler
18-03-2008, 11:40
I feel a song coming on...:P

VG cats, my heroes.

TaintedSpam
18-03-2008, 20:07
I can't believe this thread isn't getting more attention. This is huge for Eldar transports in 5th edition. Banshees in Wave Serpents for the win! Harlies in Falcons too.

electricblooz
18-03-2008, 21:07
So, god-like... no, but I don't really see what all the fuss is about.

It's pretty simple really, before I had a 50% chance of the shot landing exactly where I placed it and a 50% chance of the shot evaporating into nothingness. (BS3)

Under the lastest rumors I have a 51% chance of the shot landing within the template size of where I wanted it and a 49% chance of the shot scattering of into the wild blue yonder. Note that in the scatter condition, it is a complete crap shoot as to whether the shot will go in a direction and distance required to actually hit something else, ergo the comment that
you're most likely going to hit something is an overstatement. For guard, you are 1% more likely to hit what you shot at than you were before. There is really no good way to determine the additional impact of possibly scattering on to a different target since such occurences depend wholly on the layout of the unit. (Also note that this is with the 5" template, the smaller blast template is worse.)

Gensuke626
19-03-2008, 00:09
I can assure you that this is absolutely true...

Cake is delicious.

The cake is delicious....
But the Cake is a Lie!

rcm2216
19-03-2008, 00:14
What cake is a lie.............

Varath- Lord Impaler
19-03-2008, 01:01
I would like to point out the power of certain weapons if this comes to pass.

Will my Guard army be the pinnacle of cheese?

Including 5 Grenade Launchers (S3 Ap- small blast), 3 Heavy Mortars (S6 Ap4 Ordinance), 2 Thudd guns (S5 Ap5 4 Small blasts each), 2 Leman Russes (S8 Ap3 Ordinance) and an indirect basilisk (S9 Ap3 Ordinance), 2 Demo charges (S8 Ap2 Large blast), 9 flamers.

If blast templates get bigger...my army will rejoice...but im not sure if it would be over the top.

Perhaps i should mention my other army. The armoured company.

When you have a conqueror (which in the new rules becomes abit of a beast, putting out a S7 small blast, 9 heavy bolter shots, 2 storm bolter shots, 3 Heavy stubber shots) i think if the small blast becomes larger it will be much much better (probably a bad example because the conqueror is already shunned.

The normal russ, the Demolisher and the Vanquisher will become even more popular choices, the executioner may get some more exposure, the Exterminator will *never* be used (until it gets a real boost or a massive points drop)

Now, im just brainstorming so this may not be very coherent, but it seems that Imperial guard with armoured support got MUCH better, while the infantry companies lose out a small bit again (although the bump for flamers and small blasts helps)

Edit: They say the cake is a lie, but i wont trust them. I will continue to try to get it. Its so delicious and moist!

Kettu
19-03-2008, 07:33
What cake is a lie.............

This may explain a few things...

http://www.vgcats.com/comics/?strip_id=250

---

Anyway, on topic;

I personally won't comment on the rules till the book goes on sale however it does seem my sister’s get the better end of the bargain as of this moment but it may change.

As for the contents of the box? I don't really care unless it's Sisters of Battle, but all the Orks and Marines might make a nice pile of trophies for my girls and may even entice my DE out of hibernation for some extra heads, hands and other body parts to speak of their exploits.

I really hope the templates get bigger; an 8 inch flamer isn't the best when the most regular opponent I face is Tyranids.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to it all.

Wrath
19-03-2008, 10:17
I actually really like the way this werks for the most part.

It means that the larger the target/squad you fire at the more likely it is to hit. which is exactly what templates should be shooting at anyway.

rcm2216
20-03-2008, 04:58
Anymore concerning the confirmation about troops with fleet assaulting out of vehicles. I am ex-military, we trained to do this sort of thing all the time out of the M2.

UncleCrazy
21-03-2008, 10:26
I hope to see the Heavy Flamer come back. So few people use it now.

Gorbad Ironclaw
21-03-2008, 11:27
I don't know, I can't see them changing the templates. At the moment they are used both in 40k and Warhammer. Designing a whole net set of templates just for 40k seems like a bit of a waste, especially when there are other ways you could make them more effective; and it also seems to be what they are doing. Scatter instead of a to hit roll and all touched = hit.

Speaking of scatter, would it be easier to do it like Ordnance is now? So just scattering d6. D6-BS is too accurate and 2d6-bs is completly random.

Isambard
21-03-2008, 12:06
I don't know, I can't see them changing the templates. At the moment they are used both in 40k and Warhammer. Designing a whole net set of templates just for 40k seems like a bit of a waste, especially when there are other ways you could make them more effective; and it also seems to be what they are doing. Scatter instead of a to hit roll and all touched = hit.

Speaking of scatter, would it be easier to do it like Ordnance is now? So just scattering d6. D6-BS is too accurate and 2d6-bs is completly random.

If that is the case then there is no point in having a better BS when firing blasts. If it is 2D6-BS then you still hit 1/3 times, and even if you roll a miss then if you roll low on the 2D6 you still hit.

Guard have a 1/3 chance to hit right out then a 1/12 chance of rolling their BS or less, giving about a 40% chance of getting a direct hit and a 52% chance of getting a shot within 2" of its target.

For BS 4 you have a 44% chance of getting a direct hit and 61% chance of getting a hit within 2".

These numbers are a bit worse than rolling to hit normally with BS, but there is the flip side in the you will probably hit something.

I think this as a great rule, they just need to figure out how to make Plasma Cannons overload, maybe if they roll a double for scatter.

biztheclown
26-03-2008, 17:18
This whole thread reads like wishhammer to me. I doubt that any of these will be true.

Gensuke626
27-03-2008, 03:26
This whole thread reads like wishhammer to me. I doubt that any of these will be true.

Quoted For Truth.

havik110
28-03-2008, 14:36
okay so fleeting out of vehicles....how much more does GW want to stick it to the dark eldar....That is ours and orks deal....If you want to assault out of a vehicle get an open topped raider and watch it die from a bolter....

You cant kill falcons anyways, why do mech eldar need to be made any better?