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Victomorga
17-03-2008, 01:41
I saw a thread about wraithguard that got me thinking:

What units do people find useful and playable but just too damn expensive to invest in financially?

Case in point: I am checking out necrons and intending to start an army of them. Immortals seem like a solid (though points-expensive) unit, good heavy support and backed by cool Fluff.

However: $10 a model? If I can't convert them I really can't justify buying them. Thats more money for a unit of ten than a new army box would cost.

So lets hear it: what would you love to field but avoid because of the cost (in real $, not points)?

Bunny Lord
17-03-2008, 01:41
gargoyles.

Alessander
17-03-2008, 01:46
Drop Pods...

intellectawe
17-03-2008, 01:46
You can find anything online cheap. Just 2 weeks ago I sold 44 old style immortals, along side 78 warriors, 14 old destroyers, and scarabs and 4 lords for 250 bucks.

So yes, you can always find cheap models, and thats why I don't consider ANY model out of my price range.

But... to stay in the spirit of the thread.... Hmm.... Ogryns.

Tommygun
17-03-2008, 01:48
I second the gargoyles and also Forge World's Ripper swarms. I have 3 sets, but I can't afford more.:cries:

Captin Korea!
17-03-2008, 01:49
obliterators, sure they are great, but when it cost $22 its hard to buy more than 3.

Skirnak
17-03-2008, 01:50
I'd say grots, considering that they cost more model-for-model than Ork boyz.

Bunnahabhain
17-03-2008, 01:59
Rough riders.

However, there are any number of conversions that look better than the official models, and often work out cheaper too.

Ogryns are worth neither the points nor the money, so don't count in this thread...

Captain Micha
17-03-2008, 02:16
Rough Riders.

Wraith.....

eek107
17-03-2008, 02:21
gargoyles.

Seconded. Those things really should be plastic, or if not that then cheaper than 4 each. That's the average cost of a FW guardsman...:(

Lord Cook
17-03-2008, 02:21
Both Lightnings and Thunderbolts.

Gargoyles. Dear lord what I wouldn't give give for plastic gargoyles...

Putty
17-03-2008, 02:47
any 40k vehicle i have problems with.

i play black templars and i am rather peeved with the prices of predators, vindicators and especially dreadnaughts.

i'm looking at $60 + for predators and vindicators and around 65 - 70 for a dreadnaught after the currency conversion.

its crazy man. esp the dreadnaught....

Filthy O'Bedlam
17-03-2008, 02:53
As stated before, Gargoyles are pretty bad, but the worst of the worst has got to be Pariahs. Great stats, rules and fluff, but at $14.00 CAD for one model they are simply not worth the cash.

Cheers, Filthy

max the dog
17-03-2008, 03:20
Maybe is we all scream GARGOYLES!!!!! loud enough someone at GW would listen and make them in plastic. I always love it when someone posts a list with 3 full broods of Gargoyles that would retail for $576.

Penitent
17-03-2008, 03:28
Chaos Raptors. $90 for a squad of ten? Still, very useful unit. I'm hunting ebay for them, cuz retail is ridiculous.

intellectawe
17-03-2008, 03:32
As stated before, Gargoyles are pretty bad, but the worst of the worst has got to be Pariahs. Great stats, rules and fluff, but at $14.00 CAD for one model they are simply not worth the cash.

Cheers, Filthy

This thread is about good models being too costly. Pariahs don't work for this thread since they just plain suck.

Victomorga
17-03-2008, 03:32
PARIAHS?!

they need a serious stats / points cost overhaul before getting a box set or plastics. they're hands-down the worst unit and biggest waste in the necron codex.

but there's no debating it, they are over priced $-wise. I'm planning on starting necrons (working out my purchases ahead of time with the codex; read first, buy after) and personally the wraiths, immortals, heavy destroyers, and flayed ones are all worrying me more as far as $ goes.

Lord Cook
17-03-2008, 03:33
the worst of the worst has got to be Pariahs. Great stats, rules and fluff

Great stats and rules? :wtf: We are talking about the same pariahs here?

Drakon
17-03-2008, 03:33
ogryns but yer i still would take them unless there points value came down as well as the price otherwise its.....

Drop Pods.

Filthy O'Bedlam
17-03-2008, 03:42
Great stats and rules? :wtf: We are talking about the same pariahs here?

Yes, Yes we are. An entire unit armed with Warscythes\gauss blasters does it for me, and the Leadership\pyschic rules work well against Eldar (my main oppenent). They are too expensive points wise, but you can't argue with the fluff. I should add the caveat that I would only take them as what amounts to a command squad for a Lord on Foot.
(Ducks in anticipation of the gallons of Hatorade about to be poured on me)

Cheers, Filthy

PondaNagura
17-03-2008, 03:47
obliterators. twenty-something bucks for a single model not much better than a heavy-weapon toting termie is a stretch on me wallet.

RedSarge
17-03-2008, 03:47
Dreadnoughts. The old metal ones and the plastic box costs the same!
And considering Dreadnoughts walk around shaken all the time they should be cheaper. Oh, and Sentinels. You buy 3 of the little buggers for 130 CA and they rarely last the whole game.

Lord Cook
17-03-2008, 03:48
Yes, Yes we are. An entire unit armed with Warscythes\gauss blasters does it for me, and the Leadership\pyschic rules work well against Eldar (my main oppenent). They are too expensive points wise, but you can't argue with the fluff.

Oh I like their fluff, don't get me wrong. But for ~35 point model, a 3+ save just doesn't cut it when you are so very slow and rely on T5 for endurance. In combat they only get 1 attack, and there's the whole lack of WBB as well. Pariahs are a really cool unit with really bad rules, and they lose out in virtually every respect to Immortals. Maybe if the range of Soulless was longer, and they had 3 attacks, it would emphasise their strengths a bit more and set them apart from the crowd for reasons other than excessive cost.

Mr. Smuckles
17-03-2008, 03:58
Nobz

45 bones in the US for 5.

25 for a box of 10 BlOrks. Add in the cost of green stuff and its still cheaper to roll your own.

Slaaneshi Ice Cream
17-03-2008, 04:01
I'll add a vote for obliterators. I love them and use them extensively, but the models are too expensive AND the little weapon bits break very easily.

Filthy O'Bedlam
17-03-2008, 04:37
In combat they only get 1 attack, and there's the whole lack of WBB as well. Pariahs are a really cool unit with really bad rules, and they lose out in virtually every respect to Immortals.

True enough, the lack of WBB is a real problem. I'm probably cutting them a fair bit of slack because of how cool I believe them to be. I also tend to be an all or nothing gamer, throwing everything into one (hopefully) decisive attack.

Also, 99% of my games are played against one opponent, who is a very good friend. The games are geared towards fun, so absolute tactical superiority is less of an issue.

Cheers, Filthy

bdo
17-03-2008, 05:09
i shall throw my voice into the chorus in hope it might reach some people in charge:


gargoyles are too damn expensive, but really kick ass ruleswise



sad, but true :(

Lord Inquisitor
17-03-2008, 05:11
Chaos Terminators. Bargain at only 30 points a pop, but for $10 each it's hard to swallow...

Johnnyfrej
17-03-2008, 05:35
The entire Death Korps of Krieg range...

-Private Jon

Vaktathi
17-03-2008, 06:23
Obliterators, Chaos termi's, Hellhounds ($45 for a 115pt tank?) are all definitely in here.

centy
17-03-2008, 06:43
the hell hound is a very effective tank when combined in the army.
The big tanks make the opponent deploy in cover so are bunched up.
The hellhound then flames them and it does hurt marines.
I know i was on the recieving end of it.
I was expecting it to explode like the old rules but no it annoyed me for 3 rounds and even killed a landspeeder.

Hicks
17-03-2008, 06:52
Have to say gargoyles too. I would really like to use some in my army, but there is no way I'm going to pay that kind of money.

Sentinels are also ridiculously expensive money-wise, but I'm not sure I would call them good.

Also, I'd say IG heavy weapon teams are very expensive for something you need a ton off. At least with the plastic regiments you can convert a lot of them with just one box.

Vaktathi
17-03-2008, 06:52
the hell hound is a very effective tank when combined in the army.
The big tanks make the opponent deploy in cover so are bunched up.
The hellhound then flames them and it does hurt marines.
I know i was on the recieving end of it.
I was expecting it to explode like the old rules but no it annoyed me for 3 rounds and even killed a landspeeder.

Oh nobody is going to deny its a great unit, but it costs...alot in $$$ terms. 150pts of Obliterators (already hideously expensive) are cheaper.

Corax
17-03-2008, 08:58
How about the entire Sisters of Battle range?!

Lots of metal minis = $$$ = :cries:

Aelyn
17-03-2008, 09:03
I'm surprised Rhinos haven't been (explicitly) mentioned yet. If you play Dark Angels (like me), it's less that two points per pound, which makes it one of the worst value models out there!

spaint2k
17-03-2008, 09:23
Forge World Extra Armour.
5 points in the Space Marine codex, 14 to 16 depending on type.

Steve

Master Jeridian
17-03-2008, 10:14
It's very easy to convert Gargoyles using the Hormagaunt body, Fleshborer arms, and using the Scything Talons upturned and green-stuffed into wings.

If they did do Gargoyles in plastic, I'd hope for a resculpt- the current one's don't do it for me.

squeekenator
17-03-2008, 10:18
Gargoyles again for cost hate. If they ever come out in plastic, I am totally buying 3 12-strong broods to give my Tyranids some Fast Attack. Raveners are also annoyingly expensive, which is the other half of the reason my bugs don't have FA.

Rhinos are bloody costly, too, especially when you're taking the Chaos 35pt ones. I decided to wait for 5th edition and let my Berserkers run rather than blow that much money. Obliterators too are really costly; fortunately I managed to buy 2 second-hand for $20 rather than buying them from the shop and each being $38.

Sisters of Battle are so damn expensive. I was going to make an army, but when it costs double what the same point Chaos army you could get does, there really isn't any decision to be made. Rhinos being too expensive compacts the problem when you have to get one per squad to have a half-decent force.

My real problem, however, isn't 40K. It's Skaven. While I have a 2k army, it's sadly lacking in the models department (only around 150, any Skaven player should be aiming for around 100 more at that points level). The real prize-winner, however, goes to Skaven Slaves. Same cost as 12 Khorne Berserkers (282pts with a champion), and I get 40pts of rats. While other units are less cost-efficient, Slaves are such a necessary part of Skaven that every competitive army takes as many as possible. I simply can't take ANY, which really hurts in tournaments. It's really frustrating. Still, I don't play Fantasy that much anyway, so hey.

Draconian77
17-03-2008, 10:37
Gargoyles, although I was lucky enough to get mine half price on the big E.

Actually I agree with pretty much everything and everyone up until now except for whoever said Pariahs are good. Because as a lot of people will tell you they are, well em, not-so-good ;)

Gitzbitah
17-03-2008, 12:22
Killer Kans. 22$ for a badly cast, ~45 pt model is way too much. Especially when you consider the need for 3 to be effective.

Adra
17-03-2008, 12:35
IG heavy weapons teams are just plain mean and GK termies and troops are bloody insane.

Mercer
17-03-2008, 14:12
I agree on Immortals as well. 6 each and you need min of 5, thats 30 for a squad. Thats a lot of money considering just over that you could get 24 Necron Warriors, a bit more a Monolith and a couple of Destroyers instead.

Mercer

Deadmanwade
17-03-2008, 14:13
Deamonhunters.
Nearly EVERY model is metal. Yay!!!

Xenobane
17-03-2008, 14:20
IG heavy weapons teams are just plain mean

20 for 100 points isn't too bad, certainly no worse than the Rhino or Chimera. And it's not like you can do without heavy weapons!

Victomorga
17-03-2008, 15:47
I'm surprised Rhinos haven't been (explicitly) mentioned yet. If you play Dark Angels (like me), it's less that two points per pound, which makes it one of the worst value models out there!

...thats an interesting point. what are the worst dollar-to-point ratios out there?

Stingray_tm
17-03-2008, 15:57
Gargoyles.

Make them available for a more acceptable price and i will buy 48 of them.

gonzosbignose
17-03-2008, 16:02
I think most the serious things have been raised on here.

All of you begging for plastic gargoyles i cant help but agree. i think currently it is hard to fathom actually having a proper unit in your nid army because of the cost. I have a friend who has done some nice termigant conversions using green stuff to create a wasp like rear and then thin transparent plastacard to create wings but even they got expensive come the conversions.

I think the pariah/immortal/wraithguard issue is true aswell. As soon as a model becomes 8-10 pound (more dollars) they are a very difficult unit to consider fielding.

At the moment i am building an army which is based on a prison world. Lots of men in orange jump suits as convicts and then converted cadians with pig iron production heads and shot guns bolters etc as arbites.

Whilst trying to stick in with the whole theme of the world ive been out and searched and converted lots of bits and bobs... but the other day when i was watching my firends sisters (or withc hunters supposedly as they now are) i saw his sister repentia squad and the arco flaggalents.

Excellent i though. a squad of 10 Damien1427s. I went over to the GW catalogue on store... and oh my god!!!

9 sister repentias (4 different poses) and an S&M queen (there squad leader woman) 20

ok i thought... 2 quid a model... about right...

scanned down further....

6 arco flagalents... (only 2 poses) 18 QUID

i have to say 3 pounds a model for something which is fundamentally quite a simple model and only in two poses i think is a rip off.... i was absolutely shocked!!!

Anyway... theres my view point...

regards to all

Daniel (a wargamer)

catbarf
17-03-2008, 16:15
ogryns but yer i still would take them unless there points value came down as well as the price otherwise its.....


But... to stay in the spirit of the thread.... Hmm.... Ogryns.

Yes, truly it is an effective unit when point-for-point, they usually tie Tactical Marines in melee.

Guard Heavy Weapons are cheap, if you know how to use them. Here's what I do:
-Put the lascannon or autocannon on a tripod.
-Make a small mount out of spare bits for the Heavy Bolter, put it on the ground like SL or Vostroyans.
-Mortar gets the bipod.
-ML needs no bipod.

Done. With just six extra Cadians, you can produce four heavy weapon teams from one box.

I'm going to say that the models needed most in plastic are Gargoyles.

BrianC
17-03-2008, 16:19
The entire Death Korps of Krieg range...

-Private JonThey'd get my vote as well.

Oblits, and Raptors are also on my list of the over priced.

MrBo114
17-03-2008, 16:53
Its a little silly that eldrad and some of the other 5-10 year old metal single characters cost as much as entire units,but i suppose you only need one of them...

DEADLOCK_1992
17-03-2008, 17:03
I also agree about the gargoyles. the reason i try to avoid them is because of their price

Ravenheart
17-03-2008, 17:03
Apart of some forgeworld items, I'd say some of the new daemons take the cake.
Very cheap in game but very expensive money-vise.
Seekers of Slaanesh are a good example.

Lord Cook
17-03-2008, 17:11
the other day when i was watching my firends sisters (or withc hunters supposedly as they now are)

Sorry to be a fluff Nazi, but they are still Sisters of Battle. They exist within the greater scope of the Ordo Hereticus (aka Witch Hunters) as its chamber militant, or standing army. In layman's terms the Sisters work for the Witch Hunters as part of their duties.


6 arco flagalents... (only 2 poses) 18 QUID

They don't have just 2 poses. The bodies come in 2 poses, but all the arms are completely interchangeable (and they all look different), so you can get 6 poses out of 6 models.

rhys60
17-03-2008, 17:18
i agree with grots but dreds aswell, 2 killa kans can do about the same as 1 dred and the dred costs mor.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
17-03-2008, 17:24
Sentinels are ridiculously expensive for how effective they are, but the models are so cool I have to buy them and put them in my lists!! They're so awesome looking!!

jason_sation
17-03-2008, 18:48
It seems like IG players really like the Plasma Gunner in their army, but since he comes packed with a Melta Gunner (which you may not want), then you end up shelling out 12 bucks for the guy you want multiples of. I wish they sold him individually. (I think you could get him seperately for $6.50 from the online store, but I'm not sure if you can now).

Andrew
17-03-2008, 19:10
I would say teh terrains is the worst! cost alot (liek runied houses) and yuo dont even pay any points for it and yuo go liek "gah a house i cant drive teh landreader here i hav to go arounds it and it takes liek forever lol"

and then little elrad snippers in funney space hatts hide in teh house and go liek "lol we snipped yuor terminattors cause we are lucky space elfs in silley hatts and roll alot of 6 XD"

take away teh terrain pls

Lord Cook
17-03-2008, 19:38
I wish they sold him individually.

They used to, but the Bitz service no longer seems to offer individual components. Your best bet would be to buy space marine plasma guns from an online bitz seller, and then just convert your own. Cheaper, and you get a variety of poses.


I would say teh terrains is the worst! cost alot (liek runied houses) and yuo dont even pay any points for it and yuo go liek "gah a house i cant drive teh landreader here i hav to go arounds it and it takes liek forever lol"

and then little elrad snippers in funney space hatts hide in teh house and go liek "lol we snipped yuor terminattors cause we are lucky space elfs in silley hatts and roll alot of 6 XD"

take away teh terrain pls

For future reference, the little red squiggly lines under your words aren't there to add a splash of colour to the dull monotony of black and white. Do us all a favour and pay attention to them. Thank you.

Mad Jack Deacon
17-03-2008, 19:49
For future reference, the little red squiggly lines under your words aren't there to add a splash of colour to the dull monotony of black and white. Do us all a favour and pay attention to them. Thank you.

Mmmm. Caustic humor. Tastes bitter and delicious! I'm tempted to sig it!

Supremearchmarshal
17-03-2008, 20:02
Gaunts/Hormagaunts box - you have to buy both whether you want them or not.

Squats are damn expensive. Hard to find, too.

Aelyn
17-03-2008, 20:05
Mmmm. Caustic humor. Tastes bitter and delicious! I'm tempted to sig it!
I like the way you think!

Seriously, and on topic, one of the first things I do when I start a new army is to look at the points per pound values of various troops, and deliberately buy models with high values simply because it's more efficient for building legal armies.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
17-03-2008, 20:38
For future reference, the little red squiggly lines under your words aren't there to add a splash of colour to the dull monotony of black and white. Do us all a favour and pay attention to them. Thank you.

God bless you, Lord Cook. I thought I was suffering a stroke whilst reading that post.

I'm also going to mention how terribly expensive Krootoxes are, especially because none of the four I've gotten from Games Workshop fit together at all. It's a real shame.

Victomorga
17-03-2008, 20:46
Gaunts/Hormagaunts box - you have to buy both whether you want them or not.

Squats are damn expensive. Hard to find, too.

if you want more gants, you can build the gaunts as gants with the extra gun arms. it doesn't work so well the other way, though.

squats are expensive cause they're OOP. but they don't have any rules anymore anyway, so who cares?

Andrew
17-03-2008, 21:41
sorrey i am downloadings fireforx as we speek! a nice guy named t-tuari sent a message and said it has a inbiult spellchecks! dont maek fun of teh dyslectics pls i know i wriet to fast and i makes no sense =( sorrey but i think it will be fixeds with teh spellcke lol

is stil think teh terrain is worst cost but myabe its not counted or so well hoep this fierfox thing fixes it cuase lots of peoples are complaining it seems sorry lol

TheDarkDuke
17-03-2008, 22:09
yep immortals are incredibly expensive. my brother got lucky and won 10 off of ebay for like $40 or something. while they cost more like $16 in canada i believe.

as for other units... well iguess you could say a devastator unit with 4 multi meltas since those cheap bums only give you 1 a box. maybe gargoyles as well but i dont like there models so i dont use them anyway.

i cant think of to much off the top of my head at the moment

catbarf
17-03-2008, 22:16
Sorry, I am downloading Firefox as we speak! A nice guy named T-Tauri sent a message, and said it has an inbuilt spellchecker! Don't make fun of the dyslexics, please, I know I write too fast and I make no sense. Sorry, but I think it will be fixed with the spellcheck. lol

1. This is a forum, not a chat room. You don't need to type fast. Come on, I even fixed up your post for you.

2. If I had a quarter every time someone on the Internet claimed to be dyslexic...

3. Don't use 'that L word'. Please.


I still think the terrain is worst, but maybe it's not counted, or so we'll hope. This Firefox thing fixes it, cause lots of people are complaining it seems. Sorry. lol

Terrain, bought from GW, is quite expensive. Many people prefer to build their own- it isn't difficult, and a trip to a local craft store or hobby shop can get you all the supplies you need for a fraction of the cost.

JustTony
17-03-2008, 22:44
sorrey i am downloadings fireforx as we speek! a nice guy named t-tuari sent a message and said it has a inbiult spellchecks! dont maek fun of teh dyslectics pls i know i wriet to fast and i makes no sense =( sorrey but i think it will be fixeds with teh spellcke lol

is stil think teh terrain is worst cost but myabe its not counted or so well hoep this fierfox thing fixes it cuase lots of peoples are complaining it seems sorry lol

OFF TOPIC:

Andrew, here are a couple of suggestions:

Firstly, slow down. Take your time and type clearly. If you need to, type your post out in MS Word, which does have an excellent spell checker and you can set it to correct common misspellings on the fly, then simply copy and paste to Warseer. There is no reason to fail to communicate clearly in written English (or any other language) except being lazy. Also, use the preview post button and check your post before hitting the submit button.

Secondly; do you speak English as your first language? Honestly, both of your posts look like the cat ran across the keyboard. (And I have had that happen, personally.) Also remember that there is an editing function on the Warseer forums and you can go back and correct typos and grammatical errors after the fact. God knows I make enough mistakes in my various posts that I go back and fix later. Poor and unclear written communication is a pet peeve of mine.

ON TOPIC:
For God's sake, plastic gargoyles PLEASE!!! The current models are steaming piles of malodorous monkey manure and that's being NICE about the utter dreck that are the current gargoyles. The design is a nightmare, with the mounting hole being divided between the two wing pieces. What were they thinking?!?!?

Sekhmet
17-03-2008, 22:51
Death Korps Rough Riders. 12.00 for 1, making them about $2 USD per point depending on upgrades.

Bunnahabhain
18-03-2008, 00:08
Well, just about all FW belongs here by definition, but a special mention has to go to the IG Centaur. 32-38, and comes in at 40pts basic IIRC, so again sticking them at about $2 a point...

It's not that, but the fact a Tamiya 1:35 Bren Carrier, which the Cenatur is an almost carbon copy of, is 10, or under $20!

ehlijen
18-03-2008, 00:16
Grots. 5 for I don't even know how many bucks anymore. I think they are pretty close to the $2 per point and they're not even FW.

Skirnak
18-03-2008, 00:29
Grots. 5 for I don't even know how many bucks anymore. I think they are pretty close to the $2 per point and they're not even FW.

Unless I'm mistaken it's $10 for 4, making them $0.88 or 0.50 a point. I'm not sure how this compares to gargoyles, but to most other Troops choices (do any come out more?) it's ridiculous.

Col. Dash
18-03-2008, 01:34
Wraithgaurd, a cool looking model with a cool fluff backing it up, what are they now, 15 or 20 bucks each with a minimum squad size of 5? Thats the only thing holding me back from making a true eldar army.

Captin Korea!
18-03-2008, 01:56
Sents, armor 10, usually in squads of 3, then will get gunned down by bolt pistols or str 4/5 guns in the first 2 turns.

Putty
18-03-2008, 01:58
I'm surprised Rhinos haven't been (explicitly) mentioned yet. If you play Dark Angels (like me), it's less that two points per pound, which makes it one of the worst value models out there!

...thats an interesting point. what are the worst dollar-to-point ratios out there?

hmmm i think plastic SM dreadnaughts take that prize...

Lord Cook
18-03-2008, 02:02
Well, just about all FW belongs here by definition, but a special mention has to go to the IG Centaur.

It comes down to perspective. I'm putting together 3 of the grenadier variants right now, and the pictures really don't do them justice. Beautiful models, but so cute! Honestly they fit in the palm of your hand with room to spare, it's incredible. But they probably cost about the same ounce for ounce as diamond :(.

spaint2k
18-03-2008, 02:50
Forge World Extra Armour.
5 points in the Space Marine codex, 14 to 16 depending on type.

Steve


I'm surprised Rhinos haven't been (explicitly) mentioned yet. If you play Dark Angels (like me), it's less that two points per pound, which makes it one of the worst value models out there!

...thats an interesting point. what are the worst dollar-to-point ratios out there?


hmmm i think plastic SM dreadnaughts take that prize...

I swear to God, it's like I'm invisible on these forums.

Am I in everyone's ignore list or something?

Steve

Vandelan
18-03-2008, 03:28
Chaos Raptors. $90 for a squad of ten? Still, very useful unit. I'm hunting ebay for them, cuz retail is ridiculous.

Don't you mean $100?

Each box comes with a champion in it, so if you want to have ten you would have to buy a spare one for ten bucks.

Victomorga
18-03-2008, 03:47
@spaint2k:

from merriam webster:

"explicit: ...fully developed or formulated"

no one missed you, i just thought rhinos would be yelled about with more vigor. after all, if the bitching in other forums is to be believed, we're 90% SM players, right?

BrainFireBob
18-03-2008, 07:07
2. If I had a quarter every time someone on the Internet claimed to be dyslexic...

This is the first time I believe I can say I am completely, totally, and irrefutably 100% behind catbarf- although I'm nicking the quarters, sorry, man.

Andrew
18-03-2008, 11:16
i am sorreys again =(

i guess you have a points on the terrain as its not a models.

i have to agrees with people about drops pod and rhino and fogre world things. i gots the right chapters doors from fogre world and its expensive.
(fogre world is nice so dont gets me wrong and i loves getting things look propper)

i only gots experiance on marine army as it is teh only i gots myself but i dont agrees with the guy sayings devastators if yuo wanteds multimeltas in a box, cause you can buys them one by one now and dont haves to buy a whole box to get one

dreadnouhgts are a bit expensives for what they do in the battles on the other hands like mr putty said and extra expensives if yuo buy them from fogre worlds as i was thinkings of doings. they looks awesomes. (teh ones with chapter symbols and things but agreeds that even teh normal ones are priceys)

I thinks howevers marines haves it pretty easy compareds to other armys.
(with the rhino thoughs that goes for 38 with teh right doors and cost 35 points for a dark angles)

it is very intrestings to read this and i am glads that i dont play imperials gaurd or tyrranids (like my friend jeff but he only has hivetyrrants and carniflex so he is ok) Geneseelers and those others swarms seem expensives compareds to what points yuo pay!

I am sorry for my previous post and now i runs my text in word and try to corrects the spellings and makes it easier to read. hope you are okays with it and i talkeds to my principals and told i wanted extra class in english and assignments and thank yuo mr clock and ttauri for messeging me and helpings. thank a lot (sorrey for off topics)

Bunnahabhain
18-03-2008, 12:57
It comes down to perspective. I'm putting together 3 of the grenadier variants right now, and the pictures really don't do them justice. Beautiful models, but so cute! Honestly they fit in the palm of your hand with room to spare, it's incredible. But they probably cost about the same ounce for ounce as diamond :(.

Not quite, At least when you buy forge world stuff, you know you've got the right thing, and the person getting it will like it.

With diamonds, well, any jewlery really, so I'm extrapolating, you have the added fun of trying to turn window shopping "Ohh, I like that'" etc into some sense of what they do actually like. Emotional costs are significant too...

Edit: Hang on this is completely off topic, isn't it? Hmmmm.....GARGOYLES! There we go.

boogle
18-03-2008, 12:59
Obliterators are the only one that seem to be worth the points but not the price you pay for them in my view, one of the reasons, i've never bought any

Supremearchmarshal
18-03-2008, 14:03
Although currently without rules in 40k, Chaos Hounds used to be available to both CSM and LatD. They cost 10 or 12 points each, while their models cost 3.5 each.

Furies come close, as they cost the same amount of money and are rumoured to be 13 points in the new codex.

JustTony
18-03-2008, 14:25
Off topic:

Many kudos to Andrew for his vastly improved last post. Andrew, keep up the good work. Small suggestion: watch ending words with an "s", for example "gots". You use too many plurals, but you have made tremendous improvement. Keep up the good work. As long as you are trying and improving, you deserve credit for your effort. Well done.

On topic.

If you restrict the subject to retail cost, then you would have to include Wraithguard in the list. However, the availability of eBay and local gaming stores or internet stores that offer discounts somewhat blurs the picture. At $15 a piece at GW's full price, Wraithguard are a bit steep for more than a minimum 3 man squad. However I have 25 of them that I got from a guy with the eBay handle of "itsmarc7216".
While he has since raised his prices somewhat, I paid $80 for a set of 10 with a Warlock that were well painted. He's a good guy to do business with and his offerings make the Wraithguard unit a regular unit in my eldar armies, especially when I play Apocalypse games, where my list includes two units of 10 (with Warlock) as troops and one unit of 5 with Warlock and Farseer, mounted in a upgraded Waveserpent. It seems to really rattle Marine players.


It's time to go to bed, I had to check and recheck this for stupid mistakes and if Andrew gets a hard time for misspellings, I should as well, since I should know better. Good night all.

Peace: through superior firepower.

Moepho
18-03-2008, 14:43
Anything from Forgeworld...great models but come on...they're just resin.

Agree with Gargoyles and Immortals. Don't think wraithguard are worth the points or the money....

The other thing that NEVER made sense to me was the pricing of individual models that come in a blister pack. For example, the price difference between a normal farseer, Eldrad, a generic space marine librarian, Queen Khalida, Eversor assassin... etc Depending on what store you go to they can ALL have different prices and they are all just a single fig.

Victomorga
18-03-2008, 14:49
yeah, character models are overpriced. especially, as some said earlier, the ones who haven't been resculpted in ages. i remember when that azrael model came out; it was like ten years ago. and now it costs about twice its "debut" price.

carldooley
18-03-2008, 15:20
I agree that forgeworld for the most part belongs in here prominently, however I have to say that if you are ordering bits, there are few places that do a better job. for instance, I have ordered IG vanquisher turrets from FW and haven't regretted it and given how hard it is to get flamer equipped DCCW I prefer to order ASSAULT DRILL at http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/acatalog/SPACE_MARINE_DREADNOUGHTS.html for my dreadnoughts. however, I believe that lictors and biovores belong here, as do any land speeders that don't have an assault cannon on them.

and about those who say that drop pods aren't worth fielding, try going to a hardware store, getting 3" caps and converting for your own, figure about 10$ per drop pod for materials, and then have fun converting your own.

Lord Cook
18-03-2008, 16:37
I agree that forgeworld for the most part belongs in here prominently, however I have to say that if you are ordering bits, there are few places that do a better job.

I second that. Now that GW has betrayed its noble bitz service, FW is a good place to go, assuming you're after specialist equipment, like the aforementioned dreadnought drill arm (which looks great btw).

catbarf
18-03-2008, 17:15
however, I believe that lictors and biovores belong here

I'd say the opposite. $20 US isn't bad for 50-100pts, but both units just aren't very good.

Victomorga
18-03-2008, 19:40
I got back into the hobby a couple of years ago after only loosely following it, and was shocked at how much more expensive tanks had gotten. For an army with so much plastic, IG sure seem costly.

Brother Captain
18-03-2008, 19:58
Grey Knight Terminators are damn expensive at 70 for a squad of 5 but they're some of the best models GW has ever produced in terms of design and casting quality as well.

I don't regret buying mine but then I'm more of a painter than a gamer. I do regret having them sitting unpainted for 2 years though... :p

LoneSniperSG
18-03-2008, 22:30
I saw a thread about wraithguard that got me thinking:

What units do people find useful and playable but just too damn expensive to invest in financially?

Case in point: I am checking out necrons and intending to start an army of them. Immortals seem like a solid (though points-expensive) unit, good heavy support and backed by cool Fluff.

However: $10 a model? If I can't convert them I really can't justify buying them. Thats more money for a unit of ten than a new army box would cost.

So lets hear it: what would you love to field but avoid because of the cost (in real $, not points)?

Fortunately for Necron players, Immortals can be made out of plastic warriors and skimmer warrior bits. Flayed ones are also pricy, but can be converted easily.

I may have to say the IG command squad and Kasrkin/Stormies

Vercingetorix
18-03-2008, 22:53
I like the way you think!

Seriously, and on topic, one of the first things I do when I start a new army is to look at the points per pound values of various troops, and deliberately buy models with high values simply because it's more efficient for building legal armies.


You ought to make a post about the various points per pound values. I would very interested.

nightgant98c
20-03-2008, 00:57
How about Broadsides? They cost about $30 each.

carldooley
20-03-2008, 03:11
How about Broadsides? They cost about $30 each.

nah, broadsides are worth it if you use them right. 3 with plasma rifles and target locks are a fun and effective way to effect mobile tau firepower.

catbarf
20-03-2008, 03:50
Quick Q, since they've been mentioned: How big are Centaurs? Are they good models, or just expensive paperweights?

Lord Cook
20-03-2008, 06:09
Quick Q, since they've been mentioned: How big are Centaurs? Are they good models, or just expensive paperweights?

They are gorgeous models. Mine are still sitting in bits, but my proxies of them in test games have all performed well, and I'm confident they will shape up into a very solid unit competitively as well.

In terms of size, they're about 3" long. To put that in perspective, a chimera is 4.5" long.

EDIT: Apparently mine will be remaining in bits, because on 2 of them I've been given 2 right-hand side armour, and no left. Grr :mad:.

AngryAngel
20-03-2008, 06:35
nah, broadsides are worth it if you use them right. 3 with plasma rifles and target locks are a fun and effective way to effect mobile tau firepower.


Now I'd have to argue about the broadside worth. The pewter & plastic construction tends to push it to the not worth the money state for me. Breaks too easy, is a tad expensive for one model. Though gamewise its cost is quite good in pts.

Archangel_Ruined
21-03-2008, 00:50
Drop pods are the daddy rules wise (35pts?!?) but cost a fortune (I work in English, no idea about dollars I'm afraid). Rough riders are pretty bad for the IG on a less astronomical scale.

GeLLyDeMoN
21-03-2008, 10:09
Well there seems to be ALOT of Necron talk in here and as a Long time necron player I Agree compleatly almost all the units cost to much to pull togeather.. So i simply conver everything from warriers i mean common you can get 12 flyer ones from a box 6 immortals and with a little scavenging for parts and imagnation BANG ya got yourself more destroyers then you can shake a powersword at.. But yeah Good luck on buying all the metals ill stick to converting

silverstu
21-03-2008, 10:47
Gargoyles of course- I have two and despaired. I love the plastic gaunt box- please do the same job on the gargoyles Mr Goodwin- I want flappy death for my nids!

philbrad2
21-03-2008, 11:15
Gargoyles, I agree in the points vs pounds argument.

But SoB's/GK's I think fall into this category, yes how much does it cost to put an WH/DH army on the table with all that metal.) Once metal was cheap and plastic the most expensive now we've had a distinct shift, while GW products are never going to be 'cheap', their plastic sets now offer so much more value for money than they did.

Any army where the core is metal/resin is going to cost you fortune to put on the table. Surely the most monetarily expensive to field for the points has to be the DKoK.

PhilB
:chrome:

misterboff
21-03-2008, 15:15
On the same lines as the Rhino, I think that the new Ork Truk is very much worth the points, but a tad expensive.

It costs 18 for just 35 points basic, although it's possible to ramp up the points value with wargear. It could get expensive for a Kult of Speed wanting 6 or more of them. Luckily mine didn't seem too bad because I them in Battleforces.

misterboff

HsojVvad
21-03-2008, 16:03
Gargoyles, so I am starting to make my own witch is way cheaper. They have jump packs on them instead of wings.

http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l47/hsojvvad/?action=view&current=Gaunt9.jpg

ReveredChaplainDrake
21-03-2008, 16:22
There's a lot of cool Chaos stuff that isn't worth the money. Just about all metal daemons fit this category, but I exclude them because of the fact that whether or not they're "worth their points" is a bit iffy.

Chaos Fast Attacks are notoriously money-expensive. $45 for 5 Raptors? How about the same cost for... three bikes? (Dark Angels get 3 all-plastic bikes with special conversion doohickies, all for about the same cost as two Chaos bikes! Does that mean that repenting to the Emperor means you cost less? Only in GW-land...) And don't even get me started on Spawn, which wouldn't be worth using if you could get them for pennies and peanuts.

syntax234
22-03-2008, 16:52
tallarn. so delicous, but so costly

catbarf
22-03-2008, 17:36
Gargoyles, so I am starting to make my own witch is way cheaper. They have jump packs on them instead of wings.

http://s93.photobucket.com/albums/l47/hsojvvad/?action=view&current=Gaunt9.jpg

A pretty good copy of the Rocketgaunt idea, but it seems too artificial- I think it would be really good if the carapace were cut down to blend the two parts together better.

Silvarius
22-03-2008, 21:14
in 3 words chaos Hell Talon super cheap points for it's rules but way way to expensive
in the other way round the chaos hell blade, not expensive but way to many points

noodle-j
22-03-2008, 23:38
all the tanks for me cost way too much... especially how much it seems my BA force need them. a rhino is 40pts and 18. to me thats daft, but i need them sooo badly:cries:

Mabuhay
23-03-2008, 04:36
ork lootas
for 5 i pay 35 canadian....
i want to play death skulls so i want about 30....:(
and there guns arent easy to convert like flash gitz!

stjohn70
23-03-2008, 04:50
Thought I'd throw some Fantasy Battles love in here.

Chaos Warhounds. $25 for a 30pt unit. A Core unit mind you...