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Deadmanwade
17-03-2008, 12:38
Hi all.
I am planning on buying a High Elf force in the next few days. Last time I played fantasy was in 3rd ed, so its been a while.
Could you take a look over my list and tell me if there's something I need or something I dont.
Thanks

Lord - Prince on Barded Steed, with Dragon Armour, Star Lance, Vambraces of Defence, Shield - 281pts
Heroes - Noble Battle Standard Bearer with Heavy Armour, Halberd, Banner of Arcane Protection - 143pts
- Mage (level 2) on Barded Steed, Ring of Fury, Talisman of Protection - 201pts (High Magic)
- Mage (level 2) with Annulian Crystal, Gem of Courage - 185pts (Lore of Fire?)

Core - 16 Spearmen with Full Command, Banner of Ellyrian - 184pts
- 15 Archers with Full Command, Light Armour - 205pts (mage on foot is in this unit)

Special - 9 Silver Helms with Full Command, Shields - 247pts (lord in in this unit)
- 13 Swordmasters with Full Command, Standard of Balance, Dragonhorn - 295pts
- 8 Phoenix Guards with Champion, Musician, Skeinsliver - 163pts (Battle Standard Bearer is in this unit)
- 13 White Lions with Full Command, Lion Standard - 250pts
- Lion Chariot - 140pts

Rare - 2 Bolt Throwers - 200pts

Total 2494pts.

I would prefer to balance out the phoenix guards and the other special infantry, but I already have full command for each type of infantry units (my local independant store had a discount on the old command box sets) so I'll be buying those models in groups of 5 giving me 8, 13 or 18 depending on how many boxes I buy.

riven5
17-03-2008, 16:31
Hmm, interesting list to be sure. Some things to look into though:

You don't have any Dispel Scrolls. With how expensive and fragile HE troops are, you can't expect 5 dispel dice to be enough to keep magic missile casualties minimized. I suppose that's what the banner is for, but I dunno. Dispel Scrolls feel like necessary items for an HE army, especially considering that they're cheaper for HE than for anyone else.

Any particular reason you're giving your BSB the Banner of Arcane Protection? I understand the need for magic resistance, but why not just give it to the standard bearer of the unit the noble will be with? That way the Noble can take either a different magic banner, or can take some magic items that would make him WAY harder to kill than he is now. Might I recommend the Armor of Caledor, Guardian Phoenix and a GW. Killing power with a 2+ armor save and a 5+ ward and still enjoying all the same benefits as he is getting now. Don't take a Halberd. HEs Always Strike First, thus making Great Weapons a tremendous advantage to them.

Now onto Core. Why are your spearmen not fully ranked up? A +3 rank bonus is clutch for RnF like spearmen, especially considering the Martial Prowess rule for them. You want these guys ranked to the max. I am confused by their magic banner as well. The banner of Ellyrian is a great one, but not something I see as being terribly useful on spearmen. You kind of want these guys to take a charge to their face...putting them in the woods kind of reduces such possibilities. Now onto your archers. Your call, but I never put light armor on my archers. It would afford them a total defense of T3 and a 6+ armor save...I can't think of many enemies that can't break through that in a heartbeat. It feels like a waste of points, but YMMV.

Special: I know why you're ranking up the Silver Helms, but don't. Dragon Princes are so much better for their price. I realize you think the Prince will make up for the Silver Helms lackluster killing abilities, and while that's true, I cannot help but think your points could be better invested in DPs. They're deadly.

I'm also not sure why you're running your SMs and White Lions in groups of 13. If they're frontage of 6 you've got an extra guy floating around. If they're frontage 7 you're short one in the second rank. This isn't any kind of criticism, I honestly would like to know your reasoning, as it may be quite brilliant. One thing about the SMs though: The SM champion, I've found, isn't really worth his price. He gives you one extra attack for 12pts. Why not just grab another SM for 15pts? That'd be 2 attacks. Don't get me wrong, there is most certainly a use for a SM champ, I just don't find they add enough to the SMs already frightening killing power to justify the point cost.

Eight PG don't stand a chance against much of anything. They are sturdy by HE standards, but that 4+ ward save will only limit their losses, not halt them entirely. Even with a jazzed up Noble you're looking at losing this unit as soon as it encounters combat. Against RnF it will lose from static CR. Against tougher guys, cavalry, monsters etc. it won't generate enough static CR or wounds to win the fight. I usually run PG in groups of 15+. Expensive, but they can take losses and continue to enjoy *some* static CR. I like your plan on putting your Noble in this unit to improve its killing power though.

Anyways, that's all I've got. I think it's a good list though, and I like that you are using SMs, WLs AND PGs. All fun and effective special choices to be sure.

The Old Scholar
19-03-2008, 05:52
Hey Deadman, it seems that you are attempting to put a little of everything in this list and I'll have to agree with a lot of the points that Riven5 has made.
I love the idea of armored archers, but I'm beginning to lose faith in them. I'm also skeptical of the use of full commands in units of archers. A musician is usually enough. You can flee from charges and have a 9 leadership to roll against in order to rally. You don't want a unit of archers with a mage in it carrying a banner to get wiped out. It gives your foe too many victory points.
Anyway, to avoid repeating what Riven has already said I'll leave it at that.
But to Riven I will say that a Bladelord in a unit of Swordmasters is great for issuing and accepting challenges--the extra attack isn't all that you are paying for, plus you can give him a magic item (skeinsliver/amulet of light/talisman of loec/gem of courage.) With his strikes first great weapon and three attacks he can slay most champions and threaten many army heroes. Just my take on him is all. I think he's great.

winkypinky
19-03-2008, 14:42
I would conisder this:

Your lord + silver helms is 281+247=528 points....
You get: vs. ws4 t3 4+ save
5 ws3 s3 attacks = 0.625 kills
5 ws4 s5 attacks = 1.74 kills
4 ws7 s7 attacks = 2.22 kills (ignore armour)
for 528 points. = 4.585 kills

5 DP's 150 points.
You get: vs. ws4 t3 4+ save
5 ws3 s3 attacks = 0.625 kills
10 ws5 s5 attacks = 4.63 kills
for 150 points = 5.255 kills!

You get more kills for under 1/3 of the cost with DP's compared to your big unit silverhelms with prince. That is just something to consider if I were you. The big unit scores 2 more for static CR (rank + banner, but odds are you will still not outnumber), but the small and cheap unit gets around 0.67 raw CR more than thebig unit. Which makes the difference between the 2 units only 1.33 CR. And you could add a standard to the DP's (I would not do this) and have the difference down to 0.33 CR. And if you really insist on having a cavalry unit that generates high amounts of CR without a flank charge you could add a warbanner to the DP's which actually gives them an advantage of 0.67 CR compared to your big and expensive unit.
1. 0.33 difference in CR = 170 points = 358 points cheaper.
2. 1.33 difference in CR = 150 points = 378 points cheaper. That is more than one star dragon cheaper.
3. 0.67 advantage in CR = 190 points = 338 points cheaper
And dont say you cant generate 1.33 CR with a stardragon.
Or it is 22-25 15 points models cheaper. And your army could really use 22-25 more elite infantry. Making phoenix guards 20 and the others 18 strong or something like that, with 22 models at 330 points. Which give you a cavalry unit that generates a higher amount of CR and a lot more static CR through your army, and some much needed rank and file.
I also would shave 90 points at least of your archer unit. (only 10 with musician at max and no armour = 115) If you feel that you need the last 5 bow shots add 5 shadow warriors, which are archers... only better. for 80 points you can get 5. Which saves you 10 points in total, gives you the same firepower and a unit of scouts. Which I can only see as a good thing. Or find a few more points (17 if you cut the archer musician) and make it 5 reavers with bows, spears and musician which makes excellent flankers, warmachine hunters, gives you the 5 bow shots back and suchs for 112 points.
Also:
- What is the reason for that your noble has a halberd? He has first strike anyway, give him a great weapon.
- I would give my mage silverwand over talisman of protection any day of the week.
- I would drop banner of ellyrion on the spearelfs, and the mages horse and add more spearelfs. (4 to make them 20 strong)
- Have you considered replacing the lion chariot with a tiranoc chariot and adding a great eagle? I would really try this if I were you great eagle are just golden. And if you have used one once you will always want to use one again.

On swordmasters: In general the best way I have found use for them if either in ranked unit of 18 in 6*3 with full command which costs 300 points (they dont really need +3 for ranks) or in units of 13 with only a musician deployed in 7*2 on the flanks. They can bash almost anything which is kinda handy for a unit that only costs 201 points. And if something to strong comes they have the musician for the rally (after they wisely chose to flee) but it is very few things that a 7 wide unit of swordmasters will flee from.