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void trekker
17-03-2008, 17:03
"...I'd like to see a Codex Xenos - containing Mercenary units of various different units from different races, a Zoat telepath, a Jokaero engineer, Slaan Mages and warriors, Hrud, Clawed Fiends, Psygores, things like that. More of a source book for other armies than an army in its own right. Bring forward the idea of the Imperium living among the bones and ashes of the vast variety of races that existed before the Crusade, and that the survivors linger on the edges, eking out an existence."

-DapperAnarchist

This is one of the neatest ideas I've seen in a long time, and I thought it deserved its own thread. Also, DapperAnarchist is now my hero (for a relatively brief but indeterminate period).

The only objection that I can see to something like this is the rabid xenophobia of the Imperium. However, I think that is easily accounted for. We know that the Imperium doesn't like aliens, but we also know that it will do whatever is necessary to survive.

Inquisitors certainly use mutants, weird alien bounty hunters and -admittedly in extreme cases- even bound warp daemons when necessary. We also know that Eldar armies fight alongside human forces in some rare battles. Can you really see the Imperial Guard turning down the help of a regiment of Zortanclian Death Bunnies that just showed up and offered to help them fight the Orks?

Now, while I think this is THE BEST 40K IDEA I'VE HEARD EVER, and while I think GW should immediately be barraged with requests for just such a thing, I also, sadly, think that it will never happen.

Why? Because it is too much benefit to the customer and too little $$$s in GW's pockets. If, for example, the said Zortanclian Death Bunnies could be mercenaries for any army, then everyone would buy them. "Hey, neat! Here's a new 500 point force that I can add in to my IG, Orks, Chaos Marines, whatever! How cool is that?" However, to GW, this would equal one force for the price of three, and that is not their policy. Nosirree bob.

In fact, this could be dealt with as well, and add a general richness to the game. Obviously, there would be few if any mercenary units that would be universally available. Can you really see a force that could fight for both Space Marines and Tyranids? Though, as I come to think of it, back in the days of the Tyranid "Mind Slaves", you could have a small force (maybe a squad) of space marines, chaos marines, orks, imperial guard, or even eldar fighting for the 'nids (they had these nasty grub things implanted in their brains, ya see), so maybe something like that could work. Or perhaps there could simply be a small list of maybe three armies to which each specific merc force could be attached. Or perhaps they could be simply fairly weak forces for the point value, so you could buy a universal but not very cost-efficient unit.

Anyway, like I said, greatest idea ever, but, for that very reason, I'm sure we'll never see it.:cries:

catbarf
17-03-2008, 17:06
GW already did mercenaries in the forms of Ogre Kingdoms and Kroot, there's no reason they wouldn't do this simply because they could be used in multiple armies.

Stu
17-03-2008, 17:07
It might work if you could field a mercenary army, like the Dogs of War in Fantasy

Lord Cook
17-03-2008, 17:38
I like the idea, but judging by the slow death that Kroot have received, it's not something we can ever expect to see.

Promethius
17-03-2008, 17:54
I like the idea, and furthermore can see a forum for it in Codex: alienhunters. Sadly though, it seems that any plans GW had in this direction have been shelved in favour of trying to flog the "updated" core rules yet again.

Shadowheart
17-03-2008, 18:06
I think what people tend to overlook is the amount of work that designing a proper alien race (or proper anything, for that matter) takes. I can't see GW investing much in any races that are just one-off units, especially if they've got to do a whole army's worth at once. I wouldn't be keen on an army that looks like it hangs out at the Mos Eisley Cantina.

void trekker
17-03-2008, 19:14
I think what people tend to overlook is the amount of work that designing a proper alien race (or proper anything, for that matter) takes. I can't see GW investing much in any races that are just one-off units, especially if they've got to do a whole army's worth at once. I wouldn't be keen on an army that looks like it hangs out at the Mos Eisley Cantina.

Mmmmm... Dunno. If you are talking about a major race that is going to have its own army, codex, etc., then I'd agree with you. However, I think there is room for just a very minor race, maybe represented by about three to five different models, that represent one unit of mercenaries that do one thing. Just something clever to throw in that maybe doesn't require as much thought as a full blown codex.

Lets say that there was a relatively primitive race of long-nosed weasel-like creatures called the Belette. They never developed any technology beyond stone spears. However, when the Imperium landed on their world, they were still difficult to take out, because they could literally smell the enemy coming from miles off, and could slip away when a powerful IG force got close.

Then, the Belette would fight individually, as guerillas. They would sneak into the guard camp at night, one by one, and kill off a few sentries, vanishing before they were caught. This affected morale so badly that the Lord Militant General requested virus bombing from the Segmentum Command.

However, this was blocked by Inquisitor Thraan Thaken, who saw a great potential in the Belette. He gave the race a temporary reprieve from the Xenos Exterminatus order, and recruited a couple into his entourage as scouts/infiltrators. The Belette performed so well in this role that Inquisitor Thaken had their Xenos Exterminatus status lifted altogether. The race was quite happy to serve the Imperium in this capacity (especially as this would allow them to continue living) and the use of Belette is now relatively common in Imperial Guard forces in the Nightfall Sector.

Of course, some renegades among this race have escaped Imperial control, and now serve the Orks, Chaos, and other wicked factions.

How would they work rules-wise? Maybe they are cheap assassins that can only attack enemy front line troops, but their legendary scouting abilities might give an initiative bonus to the army containing them. They are probably not terribly trustworthy, and might have a tendency to sneak off in the heat of battle, if thingsa seemed to be going too badly.

Now, I literally just thought this race up off the top of my head (for anybody who doeasn't know, BTW, "Belette" is just French for "weasel"), and they would not be common figures. Maybe a maximum of three per army. However, I can see this and similar creatures with a few special powers really spicing up a game.

As to the "Mos Eisley legion"? Here I think reasonable minds can differ, as I imagine that you would agree. I personally think the idea of a big, nasty army of space pirates made up of multiple nefarious races might be quite cool indeed, and would mirror historical pirates, who were often composed of people from multiple races and religions, even during the most xenophobic periods of real human history.

Again, all this is just my take. Reasonable minds can certainly differ.

Reaver83
17-03-2008, 19:19
I can't really see it working imho, I think perhaps having more tau allies like vespid/kroot, but not a merc codex please

Shadowheart
17-03-2008, 19:31
Now, I literally just thought this race up off the top of my head...

Sounds like it, which is my point. I don't doubt GW's ability to cook up some random aliens, but they'd probably end up with very dodgy stuff. Like Star Wars' background-filling aliens. Just look at that bounty hunter they did for Inquisitor.

KeeganKatastrofee
17-03-2008, 19:36
You say GW wouldn't do it, but it's pretty much exactly what DoW is

Shadowheart
17-03-2008, 19:43
I make no claims about what GW would or wouldn't do. I'm just predicting they'd not do a good job if they did it.

And in this respect, it's nothing like Dogs of War. The regiments of reknown all belong to established Warhammer races. Most of them are human and based on real-world history. That's stuff GW can make look good without much work.

Lord Damocles
17-03-2008, 20:10
I can't see it working in practice... at all.

Firstly, many races wouldn't be able to use Mercs anyway (Marines, Sisters, Puritan Inc., Necrons, Nids).
Secondly, any such list would just be used by players to fill holes in their army, for example; play Tau? well here's a cloce combat Merc unit, play Khorne? here's a shooty unit. It's the same problem as a lot of Fantasy players seem to have with DoW (cannons in a Chaos army etc.)

I would be up for a series of White Dwarf artices giving rules for a few new races though for special scenarios etc. (but then the days of WD having decent articles is loooong gone:().

DrDoom
17-03-2008, 20:16
I like the idea, but admittedly I never got to work on those Kroot mercs I was going to use for my Black Legion. If there were mercs that had more interesting abilities, that might turn me around.

Codsticker
17-03-2008, 20:26
I like the idea, and furthermore can see a forum for it in Codex: alienhunters.

This is as close as GW will come to a Codex: Mercenaries. I imagine that there would be options to take a retinue that contained alien mercenaries, much like the current Inquisitors have retinues.

It's easy enough to do a mercenary army using any one of several lists. With the Abhumans doctrines that are out there you could easily use them to build a "counts as" army of mercenaries.

Brimstone
17-03-2008, 22:01
Anyway, like I said, greatest idea ever, but, for that very reason, I'm sure we'll never see it.:cries:

It's a good idea but hardly new, it's being proposed several times as a way for GW to introduce new races and see which prove popular and have the potential to be expanded into a fully armylist.

For example the Demiurg concepts found in the 40K rumour roundup.

Still it's a good idea and given GW's recent history with I'm sorry to say more bad ideas than good it's highly unlikely.

catbarf
17-03-2008, 22:19
Shadowheart, I think it's the other way around.

With a full race, GW has to design fluff for the entire race. Then they need to design each unit. Each one needs to fulfill a unique role within the army, has to be distinct from the others, needs to have flavor, and must be visually coherent.

With a bunch of mini-races, someone just has to write up a paragraph or two on their lunch break, and then come up with an idea for an alien. The rules still need to be done similarly, but the fluff and visuals become a cakewalk.

The SkaerKrow
18-03-2008, 00:09
I think the closest we'll ever come to something like this is the expansion of the Tau Empire to include new races (Covenant much?). There's really way too much xenophobia in the 40K universe for anyone to field alien allies with regularity.

Bregalad
18-03-2008, 10:26
As even the same units in different SM chapters cost differently, it would be impossible to game balance those mercenary units pointwise for all armies. Giving Tau cc monsters, Khorne mega tanks or Tyranids armoured transports would destroy the delicate game balance completely. Current trend is to simplify rules and lists to put the focus on playing, not writing (or copying) ueber-lists.

On the other hand, in Apocalypse games, you can already do this by giving Tau Harlequin allies and such. No problem there, as it is for fun only, not for winning.

Shadowheart
18-03-2008, 11:33
With a bunch of mini-races, someone just has to write up a paragraph or two on their lunch break, and then come up with an idea for an alien.

I know. It's easy to do, not easy to do well. I don't believe that when people saw the results of the process you described they'd actually be eager to buy it.

junglesnake
18-03-2008, 11:49
I like the idea, and furthermore can see a forum for it in Codex: alienhunters. Sadly though, it seems that any plans GW had in this direction have been shelved in favour of trying to flog the "updated" core rules yet again.

So far as I am aware this "Codex: Alien hunters" was a bit of a myth. Especially considering there are multiple theories behind it.

I do know that they will be releasing a Codex which includes all of the Inquisitions forces - so a joint Daemon Hunters and Witch Hunters list which in all honesty makes a whole lot more sense. They are both forces of the Inquisition after all.

As for mercenaries - be imaginative. Get a guard unit and doctrine it up and have it as human mercenaries. Use Kroot. Ok its not going to be tournament official but it would be fun between friends.

Edit: I think that the Inquisition would use alien races that they felt they could trust. Its more of whether the alien races would trust the Inquisition once their purpose was served . . . .

Promethius
18-03-2008, 11:58
Initially Codex: Alienhunters was supoosedly confirmed; the late great Andy Chambers did a WD article which outlined his plans for three Inquisition codexes, of which Alienhunters was to be the third. Then 4th edition popped up, and after rumours of delays eventually the project was scrapped (AC and Pete Haines left, and a lot of the resistance to obvious profit-only projects was lost), to be replaced by a supposed single codex. Failing alienhunters though, a codex pirates list would be fun and could allow for a mixture of regular humans, aliens and chaos marines. It could perhaps be conbined with lost and the damned to represent a general renegade list.

arch_inquisitor
18-03-2008, 14:38
Codex; mercs never gonna happen for one reason 'models' the cost of producing a bunch of one off units would be too high. And GW will never do a non model supported codex.

But on the other hand I do like the idea. As for complaining that mercenary's are just used to fill a hole or access units not normally in there army:wtf: .... that is exactly what merc's are supposed to do.

But my take on this would be to downplay the alien part of this maybe one or two xeno merc races and the rest would use existing examples ie blood axe unit of boyz.

Balancing would not be a problem as pts cost for merc units would be high they simply charge more for service than a gaurdsmen does:p

void trekker
18-03-2008, 19:14
Sounds like it, which is my point.

Cheap shot, man.

void trekker
18-03-2008, 19:17
I can't see it working in practice... at all.

Firstly, many races wouldn't be able to use Mercs anyway (Marines, Sisters, Puritan Inc., Necrons, Nids).

But the 'nids of 1st ed DID effectively have mercenaries. These were the mind slaves. Now, bear in mind that what I mean by "mercenaries" in this context is just the ability to have troops from other races in YOUR army. Stuff like that can always be worked around.

A.S.modai
18-03-2008, 20:46
It should be it's own army entirely. Like the current trend, particular commanders allow different choices to be taken as troops or even at all. Make rules saying X unit of renegade snipers will not work with Y unit of necromunda gangers because of what happened on nebulon 4 etc.

Said army can then be taken as an ally, for certain armies, but could never be taken by others. Of course make provisions for different races to be included.

I'm having a flashback to RT days.

ercan_sinar
18-03-2008, 21:56
Maybe there can be some generic mercs. Say, an infiltrator, a warrior, a psychic, etc. limited to one or two units per army. And if the modeling is left to the players, there will be great variety to show a real galaxy and no molding costs.

Wolf Sgt Kirke
18-03-2008, 22:17
unless you're deadset on tournaments, just use house rules - i'm sure with the advent of apocalypse that people will be more and more willing to return to a more open-ended gaming style.

i like the idea, but i can't see GW going for it for all the reasons others have listed, shame but there it is - nothing to stop you doing it yourself though! go for it!

Wolf Scout Ewan
18-03-2008, 22:36
I would so like to see this. I would want to see it as a standalone list but also a collection of units to add to other armies.

How I would like to see it done:
We have the book called Xenology by BL and some cool Xenos in there to start with.
I would add to these using anthropomorphic ideals, Cat/lion -men, reptilians, insectoids, birdmen, squiddies that kind of thing.

They are not a cohesive force but small bands of lost and dispossessed creatures either homeless due to the acts of other creatures or travelled too far to return home or just travellers.
Each creature type has one or two unit variations. A birdman for instance may be Fast Attack or Troops:

Birdman Unit
Birdman
ws bs s t w i a ld sv
3 3 3 2 1 4 1 8 5+
Birdman Squad Leader
ws bs s t w i a ld sv
3 4 3 2 1 4 1 9 4+
Unit 3 - 10
All birdmen are equipped with a Blast thingy range 24 str 4 ap4 assault 2
A birdman squad leader is equipped with a short blast rifle and universal communicator
Upto 2 Birdmen may change thier blast rifle for a heavy blast thingy for +10
Special:
Jetpack/jumpack
hit and run
Expert flyers
Force Org
May be taken as troops or fast attack, if taken as fast attack may be equipped with deep strike +xpoints or sleeksuits for an extra d6 movement in the move phase.

OR...
Lionman Unit
Lionman
ws bs s t w i a ld sv
4 3 3 4 1 4 1 7 4+
Dominant Male Squad Leader
ws bs s t w i a ld sv
5 4 3 4 2 4 2 8 4+
Unit 3 - 10
All Liomen are equipped with claws and fangs and a flechette rifle thingy range 24 str 3 ap6 assault
A Dominant Male squad leader is equipped with a flechette pistol and universal communicator
Upto 2 Lionman may change thier Claws and Fangs for a rending claws for +5
1 Lionman may change his flechette thingy for a flechette sprayer for +20 points range template str 3 ap- assault 2
Special:
Move through cover
Natural Camoflage +1 to cover saves.
Scouts
Force Org
May be taken as Elites or troops, if taken as Elites upto 2 lionmen may be equipped with anti tank flechette launcher for +xpoints. If taken troops may have upto 10 lionesses all armed with flechette rifles for X per lioness.

Additionally For each Lionman unit the army may include a Lioness Hunting team for x points per Lioness.
Lioness
ws bs s t w i a ld
4 3 3 3 1 4 1+1 7
Dominant Female
ws bs s t w i a ld
4 3 3 4 1 4 1+1 8
unit 5 - 8 Save 5+
All are armed with flechette rifles, teeth and fangs.
Special:
Move through cover
Natural Camoflage +1 to cover saves.
Scouts
Fleet

Leaders
A leader may be taken from any one race included in the army, this leader uses the Squad leader statistics with bonuses of +1 to ws, bs, wounds and inititive, +2 to attacks.
May take wargear from a massive list that gives bonuses to leadership etc blah blah.

Thats how it could be done.

Moriarty
18-03-2008, 23:30
Codex; mercs never gonna happen for one reason 'models' the cost of producing a bunch of one off units would be too high. And GW will never do a non model supported codex.



They do a Dark Eldar Codex, don't they?

that-theo
18-03-2008, 23:57
I'd like to see them do another chapter approved list (similar to the Kroot one) but with units from various exisiting forces that it has already been stated in the fluff are mercs on occation. (Kroot, Humans, Orks...)

That way we could see things like Chaos armies with a platoon of traitor guard and so on.

SonofUltramar
19-03-2008, 00:32
It could perhaps be conbined with lost and the damned to represent a general renegade list.

I'm not to sure this sort of mish mash would work but in all honesty if there was one Codex they should have done a long time ago it should have been Renegades, lets face it the pivotal time in the 40K background involves armies of Heretics and some of the most popular fiction (Gaunts Ghosts) has them in every book. Common sense has so failed to turn prevail its not funny.

The way I always looked at it was we had Witch Hunters but no Heretics, Daemon Hunters and until now very few Daemons but no Alien Hunters and no less than 5 seperate major Xenos threats? If anything Alien hunters should have been the first book as it would make far more sense than some Grey Knights trying to knock lumps out of Orks and failing, mainly because its not their job? Thats Insanity 2, Common Sense 0

Grindgodgrind
19-03-2008, 01:40
It's an old idea, but the idea of an army book of different merc units is one that I really like. I'd love to see some more random stuff thrown in, rather than the vanilla we are oft to be presented with. Personally, I'd love to see Ioxatl. The fluff on them in the Gaunts Ghosts books sounds great, and they don't even have to be a massive unit. They always hunt in trios, have a flechette launcher, psychically linked, tough, fast, etc. Or even Eldar Corsairs or Ork Freebooters.

I'd like to see bounty hunters, be they Eldar, Ork, Human or whatever. The idea of a human bounty hunter, with a Tau battlesuit jumpjet pack, with a couple of different weapons is pretty cool. I'd like to see Demiurg and Hrud represented, Tarellian Dog Soldiers too. Even Marines who have left their chapter and tunred mercenary, ala Fallen. It would be COOL, which is something GW need to swing the focus back on.

Lt.Bradford
19-03-2008, 01:54
Ya know, I actually heard a rumour about a Codex like that recently. IT came from discussing about the Inquisition codex, and then someone (not going to say who, do too reasons.) says:

"Don't worry, since Daemonhunters get Daemons, Xenohunters will probably get a alien list."

keatsmeister
20-03-2008, 09:10
For a game based around a war-torn setting, this is probably the only major concept to be fully explored in 40K. Sure you've had Kroot, but that was a half-baked list to begin with, and should have been included as the Kroot contribution towards the Tau Empire lists from from the off.

I've been a big fan of this idea for several years now, and I'm sure there's still one or two home-brewed lists hanging around the archive if I were to search. Anyway, it'd be really cool to have a Dogs Of War style approach as the minis would really require minimum effort. Sure if you included one-off units like Hrud you'd need a full out kit, but many of the units that would get used could be based around the current minis, but simply use an accessory sprue in the same way that we got plastic Space Wolves. Freebooterz, Hired Guns, Eldar Corsairs, job done.

Tau are an important unit to look at as well. The argument previously revolved around the whole Greater Good issue, and would they ever hire themselves out to another race. Well, reading the new Legion book gave me reason to look at this again. Well, what if the Ethereals see victory for a particular faction in a campaign as crucial to the furtherance of the Greater Good. If that faction is more comfortable dealing with Mercenaries for hire than do-gooder allies (at least you know why they are fighting for you!) then it would be in the interests of the Greater Good to hire out your forces.

Given their propensity to using mercenaries and unsavoury characters, I've no doubt that should such a project emerge from the GW bunker, it would have something to do with a revision of the Inquisition codices. Perhaps a generic book with basic hired guns and the Inquisitors themselves to begin with, then seperate add-ons for the supporting forces like the Grey Knights, the Ecclesiarchy and the Deathwatch. Ah, we can wish....;)

junglesnake
20-03-2008, 10:30
Ya know, I actually heard a rumour about a Codex like that recently. IT came from discussing about the Inquisition codex, and then someone (not going to say who, do too reasons.) says:

"Don't worry, since Daemonhunters get Daemons, Xenohunters will probably get a alien list."

So far as I have been told by GW staff there will be no Xenohunters list.

If you think about it it makes no sense to have one either. The Inquisition are seen as the real Xenohunters - so why call it Xenohunters when it is really an Inquisition codex?

What ever the codex will be called it will contain both Daemonhunters and Witch hunters. As for an alien list for them to fight try, Tyranids, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Tau . . . . . .

There are fan rules out there for the likes of gene stealer cult armies and the like which are available for free to all. If its tournament legal armies you want you will probably be waiting a while.

GW wouldn't support it as people have already said, due to the vast diversity of different units and models required to support it. As a white dwarf list and/or pdf - quite possibly but then you could always the creature feature system to make your own race of alien life forms anyway - its a bit out of date now but still it gives you the basis for them.

And as for an official shelf codex without minis - its not worth it. There is not much in it that way. It wouldn't attract some players without some miniatures to tempt them. After all I didn't choose Dark Angels or Catachans or fantasy Orcs without being blown away by the miniatures first . . . .

Blutrache
20-03-2008, 10:51
I'm all for this idea! It could spawn a lot of cool new models and new fluff into an increasingly polarized gaming universe. I can't understand why GW really doesn't exploit more of the fun "historical" background? Tarellian dog-soldiers, Slann warbands and just simple space pirates would rule! Besides it would be refreshing to see smaller scale conflicts where the fate of the universe isn't hanging in the balance. I'm pretty fed up with "New Armylist XYZ spellz tha dooom of reality and eatz all others fer breakfast!!!!"

That said, I'd definitely throw down the cash for an advance order of a Space Slann Spearhead. Nannananana SPACE FROGS!

/Cheers

leonmallett
20-03-2008, 10:59
So far as I have been told by GW staff there will be no Xenohunters list.

If you think about it it makes no sense to have one either. The Inquisition are seen as the real Xenohunters - so why call it Xenohunters when it is really an Inquisition codex?

What ever the codex will be called it will contain both Daemonhunters and Witch hunters. As for an alien list for them to fight try, Tyranids, Eldar, Dark Eldar, Orks, Tau . . . . . .

<snip> . . . .

Same way that Witch Hunters is an Inquisition codex and Deamonhunters also an Inquistion Codex. That said it looks like a combined codex will happen as you observe, not due to pedantic titling, but rather the amount of overlap combined with being somewhat of a niche army means it makes sense to combine them.

I think you are right in countering the hopes of the earlier poster that the Alienhunters (in the combined codex) won't see a brand new xenos codex, but rather that there are several alien races already.

That said, a self-contained xenos Mercenaries list (perhaps including limited Ork, Dark Eldar, human/guard and Kroot options as well as new races) could be very cool. Not as a means to cherry pick gap-filling units for other armies but as a varied army in its own right, perhaps with various (mutually exclusive) HQ choices to show who has hired the mercs (human warlord, Rogue Trader etc, Dark Eldar vying for power or what have you and so on).

arch_inquisitor
20-03-2008, 15:03
They do a Dark Eldar Codex, don't they?

And they have models for said codex even though they are mail order only.

junglesnake
20-03-2008, 19:20
Same way that Witch Hunters is an Inquisition codex and Deamonhunters also an Inquistion Codex. That said it looks like a combined codex will happen as you observe, not due to pedantic titling, but rather the amount of overlap combined with being somewhat of a niche army means it makes sense to combine them.

I think you are right in countering the hopes of the earlier poster that the Alienhunters (in the combined codex) won't see a brand new xenos codex, but rather that there are several alien races already.

That said, a self-contained xenos Mercenaries list (perhaps including limited Ork, Dark Eldar, human/guard and Kroot options as well as new races) could be very cool. Not as a means to cherry pick gap-filling units for other armies but as a varied army in its own right, perhaps with various (mutually exclusive) HQ choices to show who has hired the mercs (human warlord, Rogue Trader etc, Dark Eldar vying for power or what have you and so on).

Like I said as a white dwarf list or as a pdf on the website (or both) I can see it as a possibility. But the main problem here is that unlike fantasy its not so viable.

The rules are different for a start but there is nothing saying your Imperial Guard couldn't ally (read hire) a Kroot mercenary war band - infact this is something I wouldn't mind getting round to one day.

If it is for official tournaments forget about it - it wont be done and again Dogs of War is a good example, the standard list is allowed but not the "special units". So at the end of the day it is really down to your own creativeness.

As for people use of the term Chaos or Renegades - we have to be careful here. Chaos are more likely to hire, persuade or corrupt mercenaries than they are to be them themselves unless their devotion to their God perhaps deviates them.

In my mind Renegades are those that have shunned the Imperium - this does not make them Chaos. Remember back in Rogue Trader there were Chaos Renegades - those that had turned from the Imperium and chosen chaos.

There are some exceptions to the rule. I could see Soul Drinkers hiring themselves out for nesessity, no longer accepted by the Imperium and not Chaos - they would have to eek out some sort of exhistance although they would perhaps not be able to fight against other space marines (having said that other space marines would believe them to be traitors so would shoot them on sight hmmmmm . . . . ).

What I would like to see more than this is the old Codex Imperialis from 2nd edition which gave a Ravening Hordes type brief list for armies including those that were never going to be expanded. So the likes of Squats would have a limited but official dex along with hybrids and other races people mention. Again miniatures would most likely not be supplied but if GW perhaps made some small packs up of their old models they could at least test popularity and maybe bring one or two back properly.

leonmallett
22-03-2008, 17:14
Like I said as a white dwarf list or as a pdf on the website (or both) I can see it as a possibility. But the main problem here is that unlike fantasy its not so viable.

The rules are different for a start but there is nothing saying your Imperial Guard couldn't ally (read hire) a Kroot mercenary war band - infact this is something I wouldn't mind getting round to one day.

If it is for official tournaments forget about it - it wont be done and again Dogs of War is a good example, the standard list is allowed but not the "special units". So at the end of the day it is really down to your own creativeness.

As for people use of the term Chaos or Renegades - we have to be careful here. Chaos are more likely to hire, persuade or corrupt mercenaries than they are to be them themselves unless their devotion to their God perhaps deviates them.

In my mind Renegades are those that have shunned the Imperium - this does not make them Chaos. Remember back in Rogue Trader there were Chaos Renegades - those that had turned from the Imperium and chosen chaos.

There are some exceptions to the rule. I could see Soul Drinkers hiring themselves out for nesessity, no longer accepted by the Imperium and not Chaos - they would have to eek out some sort of exhistance although they would perhaps not be able to fight against other space marines (having said that other space marines would believe them to be traitors so would shoot them on sight hmmmmm . . . . ).

What I would like to see more than this is the old Codex Imperialis from 2nd edition which gave a Ravening Hordes type brief list for armies including those that were never going to be expanded. So the likes of Squats would have a limited but official dex along with hybrids and other races people mention. Again miniatures would most likely not be supplied but if GW perhaps made some small packs up of their old models they could at least test popularity and maybe bring one or two back properly.


I wasn't suggesting what would happen (because writing to a studio member and Pm's to another studio staffer have convinced me there will be no new non-Imperial codexes/armies in the near to medium-term future), what I do suggest is that a mercenaries list, if done, would be best/most likely as a full list in of itself that cannot be used by other armies (except in Apocalypse of course).

As for your testing idea, it seems sound in principle, and it is one I like, yet everything indicates that GW are leaning toward fully supported armies (in terms of miniatures and offical rules) rather than partially supported armies.