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Famder
18-03-2008, 14:19
So I was thumbing through my Lizardmen army book and reading the rules on units I don't often use just to keep my memory fresh. Then I read the Stegadon entry which specifies it counts as a ridden monster.

This got me thinking, and I was wondering if anyone had tried it, but has anyone ever put the Stegadon inside a unit? I don't think it would be particularly effective, but could make for some different tactics.

N810
18-03-2008, 14:30
I'm not entirely shure what our rules are on our Chariot/boltthrower/riden monster are?
I can't say I have ever hear of anyone having one in a unit thou?

EvC
18-03-2008, 14:39
If a character is riding the monster, it can possibly join a unit. Horrible idea, though.

Tecliso
18-03-2008, 14:39
<raised up his hand> Heya.. I am a high elf player tough.. A friend of my told me he would use the stega tactic into the next battle.. So I think it would be legal.. (( He is a very fair player. ))

McMullet
18-03-2008, 17:23
One horrendous idea that occurs... Put the steggie with a chief in a unit of skinks. OK, so he is now subject to panic and surrounded byT2 guys, but your big mean monster can now charge 360 degrees, effectively.

Terrible form in my opinion, but the skirmishing unit sees 360, and if they charge the "character" automatically moves to the front rank...

GodHead
18-03-2008, 17:31
Without my books in front of me, I believe there is something to the rules about bigger things joining skirmishers that would prevent that little gem.

McMullet
18-03-2008, 17:38
You may be right - something about skirmishers only being US1 maybe?

(I hope so anyway)

EvC
18-03-2008, 17:47
Yes, that's right, only a US1 model may join Skirmishers. So you won't see a mounted Stegadon in a unit of Skinks, though he could join Cold One Cavalry which may have the Hunachi Banner...

N810
18-03-2008, 17:48
I dont have my book in front of me but im fairly shure the the stegadon
is something like US 5 or 6 (5 skinks on his back + 1 stegadon)

EvC
18-03-2008, 17:55
He's US8. Jeez, I must have a photographic memory for this stuff...

anarnii
18-03-2008, 18:18
this might be possibel as i found out yesterday for GW staff (infinite source of knowledge of course) but they said that a carnosaur can join a unit of cold ones, so theres not reason that a steg couldnt join saurus cavalry

Famder
18-03-2008, 21:25
I never thought of using the Huanchi banner with my Cold One unit to get that extra move for charge. Just march up 12" and let the impact hits fly.

The other interesting thin is to place him on the side of a unit and angle it so that the stegadon is in the flank arc of the unit while the rest of the unit would charge the front. Then you do a pincer from what used to be a single unit.

Dead Man Walking
19-03-2008, 00:47
I would run him alongside the cold ones seperately, as it would attract too much notice. Then on the turn you plan on using the banner you move the cold ones up and declare that the stegadon was joining them. Then you roll the stegadon up into the unit and then d6 them both into combat.

However since there is no charge reaction does the enemy not roll for terror? Just fear?

Conotor
19-03-2008, 02:17
U can put him in a skink corhort for rank bonus.

Causa Mortis
19-03-2008, 10:35
I have never thought about using a steg in a unit before. But I do know that if you're being charged by something which causes terror, then you test! :evilgrin:

fubukii
19-03-2008, 14:52
he can still be shot at though since he is a large target and over us5 :)

Dalamyr the Fleetmaster
20-03-2008, 01:05
i might try that out it will make a nice change an hopefully throw my mate of a bit. i'll report on what happens

Druchii Love
20-03-2008, 04:43
Unless there is a rule I'm not aware of, monsters (ridden or otherwise) can NEVER join a unit.

Famder
20-03-2008, 05:12
Unless there is a rule I'm not aware of, monsters (ridden or otherwise) can NEVER join a unit.
Ridden Monsters can.

Mercules
20-03-2008, 14:27
Unless there is a rule I'm not aware of, monsters (ridden or otherwise) can NEVER join a unit.

Pg. 58

Monsters always fight individually; they can never join other models to form a unit, except when they are ridden by a character.

N810
20-03-2008, 14:37
mmm so it looks like you have to use the skink chief on a stegadon if you want to have it join a unit ???

theunwantedbeing
20-03-2008, 14:50
Or a skink priest, either way its perfectly do-able.

Eigilb
20-03-2008, 20:23
Cheese man. Cheese. Stegadon + cold ones + charge banner = Cheese. Legal cheese. But Cheese.

GodHead
20-03-2008, 20:34
Why so judgmental? It's really not that great.

What would be amazing would be to put 2 Skink Priests on Stegadons in a unit of Temple Guard with a Slann.
Ha! Ha! 1700 points in one cold-blooded Stubborn unit of doom!

Mercules
20-03-2008, 20:42
Why so judgmental? It's really not that great.

What would be amazing would be to put 2 Skink Priests on Stegadons in a unit of Temple Guard with a Slann.
Ha! Ha! 1700 points in one cold-blooded Stubborn unit of doom!

At least it wouldn't be a 2nd Generation Slann until 3k points, but still... Yuck. Talk about a "Deathstar".

GodHead
20-03-2008, 20:48
Put one Stegadon on each flank, protecting the soft gooey Slann center. Give the Slann the plaque that gives the unit a ward save versus shooting. The Stegadons cause Terror, so that takes care of Fear and Terror causers (though you might want to double up and take the standard just in case both Stegadons get killed).

Why does this retarded idea appeal to me so much now??

Oh for the money to start a pointless Lizardmen list...

Eigilb
20-03-2008, 21:17
We're talking fantasy here. We're selling Cheese. Danm, I hope no Liz player im ever gonna play will use this...

Yehoshua
22-03-2008, 00:08
Godhead, you're missing the best part!

Stegadon does block LoS to the Slann, but the Skink priest in the Howdah gives the Slann LoS off the top of the Stegadon.

showmydog
22-03-2008, 03:33
hahahah thats classic, gorgonzola in its best form

GodHead
22-03-2008, 03:56
Could someone please take it to the Ardboyz tournament?

Pretty please?

Caboose123
22-03-2008, 05:19
Wow, that sounds fantastic...

DeathStar would be a great list, just imagine;
"I deploy my unit over here opposite your slaan,temple guard, skink priests and 2 stegadons, okay your turn to deploy... what do you mean you're done?" :p

Out of the possible ideas of Stegadon joining units, the skink cohorts seems like the best idea. He doesnt lose speed, gains rank bonuses, banner etc. If i was doing it, thats where he'd go... or the Death Star...

Draconian77
22-03-2008, 14:38
Talk about eggs in 1 basket but those are some damn tough eggs.

Alas Godhead I don't have a Lizardman army but we never know where the future will bring us...

Eigilb
22-03-2008, 23:11
the downside of this cheesy cheese of cheeses, is that the unit wont have a 360 line of sight, to cast spells. Major down side. Will be flanked, rearcharged and stuff - not that it matter in a unit like this.

Btw, can the skinks still cast LOS spells when fighting on a Stegadon like the Slann in TG

Caboose123
23-03-2008, 01:00
the downside of this cheesy cheese of cheeses, is that the unit wont have a 360 line of sight, to cast spells. Major down side. Will be flanked, rearcharged and stuff - not that it matter in a unit like this.

Btw, can the skinks still cast LOS spells when fighting on a Stegadon like the Slann in TG


We're talking fantasy here. We're selling Cheese. Danm, I hope no Liz player im ever gonna play will use this...


Cheese man. Cheese. Stegadon + cold ones + charge banner = Cheese. Legal cheese. But Cheese.

Why do i have the feeling that your not a fan of this idea? :p

About the Death Star strategy.
Would the unit be stubborn? (temple guard) If they were i think it would be nigh-on unbeatable really, although thats a bit premature...

GodHead
23-03-2008, 01:09
Of course they would be stubborn. They are always stubborn with a Slann.

So they'd be Stubborn on Ld8 with 3 dice with a reroll.

They are going nowhere.

Lordmonkey
23-03-2008, 03:17
So they'd be Stubborn on Ld8 with 3 dice with a reroll.

They are going nowhere.

Autobreak with fear?

*Looks*

Stegadon. Stegadon's cause terror.

Doh!

Famder
23-03-2008, 10:16
the downside of this cheesy cheese of cheeses, is that the unit wont have a 360 line of sight, to cast spells. Major down side. Will be flanked, rearcharged and stuff - not that it matter in a unit like this.

Btw, can the skinks still cast LOS spells when fighting on a Stegadon like the Slann in TG
Skink riders have 360 LoS because of the Howdah.

And Godhead, I might just bring that to the tournament just to see the look on my opponent's face.

2 Lvl 2 Priests in 2 Stegadons, 2nd Gen Slann with Totem of Prophecy and all the normal fixin's. 25 temple Guard with War Banner. US 46 fear causers. Could drop the Prophecy for the unit 5+ ward save vs shooting. Take that with 3 units of 10 skinks and you still have 1500pts to work with for the rest of your army.

Caboose123
23-03-2008, 15:38
Whats the Ld of the Slann?
Why Ld 8 with 3 dice?

You won't be able to take a 2nd generation, because of the amount of rare choices in 2k. I would use the totem what gives -1 to hit anyone in the unit (to offset the large tarrget rule) and a palaquin that gives a ward save versus shooting to the unit (and stegadons :))

Because the Stegadons cause terror would the banner that makes the unit cause fear be of any help?

What could kill this unit? It has been proposed that chosen Khorne Knights could kill it, but i doubt it. They would probably lose through combat resolution (and auto-break?) and the slann prolly wont let them get that near to him.

Anyway, good luck!

Lordmonkey
23-03-2008, 16:14
Heavy infantry in the front (chaos warriors, hand weapon and shield) and chosen khornate knights in the flank.

KingOfStarcraft
23-03-2008, 17:01
Hmm all wizards got heavens magic, deployed in a corner impossible to be flanked. Then for the rest of the cores you buy 2 skink units of 10 skinks. 1880 pts in a unit. You have to kill around 20-25 temple guards with 4+ save /-1 to hit and 5+ ward save vs shooting/MAGIC

SilverWarlock
23-03-2008, 17:16
It would be entertaining but not competitive

for one it cant deal enough damage, one unit can be avoided and you dont get LOS or range past the 24 inches and LOS of that unit (which is why deathstar armies use running priests to get LOS for the slann).

It is also very vulnerable to murphy's law, mainly when it involves a panic test or a pit of shades. The panic test can be caused by massed fire on the guards or by magic.

The unit should have Ld 8 stubborn or Ld 9 versus panic, rerollable in combat (slann BSB) and always cold blooded. Still the Ld 9 panic tests aren't 100% certain and over the course of a tournament you will likely fail some. Not to mention this list can have trouble getting massacre results due to not being able to catch a point denial list.

Also, as soon as the priests die (and being ona large target this isnt such a crazy idea the steggies have to leave the unit, leaving LOS to the Slann (who doesnt have the 2+ ward if he is giving the 5+ to the unit). This is without mentionning cannonballs and bolt throwers getting through to the slann without seeing him.

The best idea here I think is the Saurus cav as it allows for the huanchi banner affecting a stegadon. Still a very expensive unit and neither unit really needs the extra damage output.

Yehoshua
23-03-2008, 17:28
Murphy's law? What the heck? Who is going to have enough shooting to consistently provoke panic tests on the unit, given the ward save, or for that matter (to a prior poster) who is going to be able to push up their Khornate Knights and Warriors over 3 turns without the Knights being fricasseed in their armor (thank you, Lore of Metal).

As to using magic to get at the Slann, that's just silly. A 2nd gen is going to be bringing more dispel dice than a normal army (and all attempts are +1) plus a dispel scroll or two to handle high-casting pit of shades.

Any expenditure that would kill a priest would be more expensive than is worth it.

Is it optimal? Probably not. It's clearly not as bad as you make it out to be.

Famder
23-03-2008, 23:37
for one it cant deal enough damage, one unit can be avoided and you dont get LOS or range past the 24 inches and LOS of that unit (which is why deathstar armies use running priests to get LOS for the slann).
It specifies in the Stegadon rules that Skinks can fire in any direction which counters the normal LoS rules for monsters, since they can Shoot in any direction they have LoS for magic in any direction. This is why the Slaan can see in any direction still.


Also, as soon as the priests die.
Priests are only hit on a randomization of 5 or 6 and have a 2+ Armor Save, they don't die easily.


This is without mentionning cannonballs and bolt throwers getting through to the slann without seeing him.
Bolt Throwers that go through the unit will not hurt the Slaan very often even without the 2+ Ward.


The unit should have Ld 8 stubborn or Ld 9 versus panic, rerollable in combat (slann BSB) and always cold blooded. Still the Ld 9 panic tests aren't 100% certain and over the course of a tournament you will likely fail some.
Not quite sure how it works since I don't have my rulebook with me, but the Stegadons are Immune to Panic. I'm sure it doesn't get conferred to the unit, but it is worth noting. Either way, the Guards are not going to be afraid of most missle fire with their 4+ saves and US of 46. That means they have to lose a lot of bodies to force a panic.