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Sgt John Keel
08-10-2005, 23:14
Sometimes when regiments suffer losses, they will merge with each other to maintain full strength formations for the duration of a campaign, sometimes even longer. In other cases regiments will be annihilated, disbanded or the regiment desert. What happens to these regiment's name and number?

For example, when regiments merge, which name will they take, or do they perhaps come up with a new one? If a regiment is utterly wiped out, will they reuse the name and number when recruiting a new one, or will the regiment get a honorary mention in the annals, the banner put in a museum and the name allowed to rest? Would there be any difference if the regiment were exterminated in honourable defence of the Imperium, or if it deserted.

I would say that the number and name wouldn't be used again if the regiment were disbanded for unfaithfulness, but there's more of a grey area in the other cases, I believe. Your thoughts?

/Adrian

Vindikhein
08-10-2005, 23:46
Quite possibly if a regiment was disbanded or turned traitor then the number might be retired.

On merged units, and I'm borrowing this from someone else's post on another thread, they use both numbers if from the same world, eg. 9/24 Cadian, or adopt the name of the planet where they were merged.

I imagine that many regiments have been utterly devastated when you consider the length of time for which they serve in the field. And the number for these regiments will just be reused during the next founding to take place on their home world.

If you want a bit more info, there is a discussion along similar lines here (http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10774)

Hope this is useful.

Thanks

Sgt John Keel
09-10-2005, 00:15
Thanks for the link.

I was however thinking along the lines of the Imperial Roman Legions. Whenever a Legion were destroyed, disbanded, etc. their number and name would never be used again. Perhaps the IG regiments would recycle the number, but not the name, and start a new tradition.

I was also pondering that if a Regiment was off-world for an extended period of time, with no contact with their Home World, perhaps there could be two or more regiments with the same number.

The end-all would be knowing just how tradition bound the Imperial Guard are, if they choose to honour the fallen by their memory, or instead try to take up and preserve the customs and legend of that regiment. Obviously this would vary by the worlds.

Then you could of course discuss wheter the legend is more important for a Hive World where it's next to impossible to stand out from the crowd, or on a feral world where a warrior cult has a strong grip on the populace.

/Adrian

Mikari
09-10-2005, 00:23
When a regiment dropsunless they were super special (like gaunts ghosts) they just "respawn" when the next group of people come from their home world.

Any who survive become officers and so on and so forth. It's the circle of "lets get shot".

sulla
09-10-2005, 02:44
The galaxy is a big place...I imagine each and every optoin would have occured at some stage in the imperiums history. In other words, whichever option you want to use for your troops/story is ok...

Ki-Adi-Monkey
09-10-2005, 13:55
Merged regiments from the same world would keep the name of thier world, and they would either keep both regiment numbers, or have the regiment numbers added up for a new number. The regiment numbers would only be added up if the number created is not the number of a guard regiment already founded on the specific world.

The same would happen with regiments from different planets that are merged, with the only difference being that planet names would not be kept (like the 81st/1st recon in His Last Command).

Brother Othorio
09-10-2005, 15:01
for what its worth one of the notable actions of the Necromundan 8th Spiders was to be annihilated defending a landing zone so an imperial force could escape, the regiment still exists so obviously it was refounded

orangesm
09-10-2005, 17:10
Imperial Guard Regiments will trace their foundings back to the dawn of the Imperium and the military reformation of Roboute Guilliman. Imperial Guard Regiments use the number and name of one that came before them from their world. Tanith can probably only support 3 Regiments and thus when tithed to form Regiments - which could be generations apart - 3 Regiments are formed with the same number & name (initially) of the much older ones. Some regiments return their banner to their homeworld at the end of the tour of duty. Overall the Imperial Guard maintains traditions and would only retire a regimental name and number if it went traitor or did something amazing.

In reference to the Roman Legions, they did eventually reuse numbers just added a name of when they were founded. So if the 20th was wiped out during the reign of Augustus and reformed during the reign of Tiberus it would be the 20th Tiberus. Alot of this happened during the mid to late Roman era.
In the 40k universe. there are 18 of legions, orginally 20, 2 have been deleted from the record. 9 of them went traitor, and another 9 were broken down into chapters. The 2 being deleted is the only example of no one retaining a name and number that I know of.

Easy E
11-10-2005, 01:26
The numbers and names of Guard Regiments are re-used. The Necromunda "Spiders" are the most famous examples, but the "Lucky 7th" is another.

Essentially, a regiment is suppose to fight for 25 years. At the end of which they can be given the Right of Conquest or are disbanded. Once disbanded, the next regiment raised on that world will re-take the name and number. Essentially Orangesm hit it on the head for the IG.

Colonel Kebab
11-10-2005, 11:51
One way to merge two regiments would be the following:
4th Cadian and 17th Valhallan are merged to "The 4/17th(pronounced "four seventeenth") Cadian-Valhallan regiment.

The problem then would just be the regimental standard. Perhaps cutting each in half and sowing them together?

Sai-Lauren
11-10-2005, 12:19
One way to merge two regiments would be the following:
4th Cadian and 17th Valhallan are merged to "The 4/17th(pronounced "four seventeenth") Cadian-Valhallan regiment.

The problem then would just be the regimental standard. Perhaps cutting each in half and sowing them together?


Merged regiments from the same world would keep the name of thier world, and they would either keep both regiment numbers, or have the regiment numbers added up for a new number.
Or they may take a whole new identity - for example, they may become the 1st regiment of the world that they were involved in recapturing - the damage from which forced their merger - and take their iconography from there, or become something like the 119th Emperors Guard.

TitusAndronicus
11-10-2005, 12:52
I would hope in this case they would have fought well enough to have won the right to stay on said planet and form the PDF there.

Col.Gravis
11-10-2005, 14:06
Other examples would be the remanents of a very badly depleted regiment simply being merged into a regiment which was below strength - a case in point would be the Tallarns merged into the Praetorian 24th before the Massacre at Big Toof River - the regiments was known as the 24th Praetorian but contained troops from at least two different worlds.

Jedi152
11-10-2005, 14:19
In the real world AFAIK the numbers are merged (my mates dad for example, was a part of the 17/21st Lancers).

Either that or i'd imagine they would be designated a new number.

cailus
12-10-2005, 02:21
Numbers are reused in the real world too. Modern airfroces often resurrect old squadron numbers when forming new squadrons (a rarity in a day of constant cutbacks). These numbers may not have been used for 50 years or the original squadron may have only disbanded a couple of years before reforming.

Lord of ???
12-10-2005, 10:36
I read (In a highly reliable source, Commisar Cain :p ) that they merge the 2 regiments and give them a new number but they still refer to the merged number

Centurion Cajun
12-10-2005, 15:18
Even in the real world it ranges greatly. A general rule of thumb though is that when an older unit is disbanded it is possible that at some point down the line another one will be created with the same number. This doesn't apply though to especially dishonorable ones. Of course as stated above everyone does it a little different.

A general rule of thumb is to accept them all happening and just throw a little bit of everything in there. Just shows how diverse and confusing the IoM truely is.:cool: