PDA

View Full Version : Status of VC corpse cart and possible tactical uses?



nurgleallan
19-03-2008, 05:14
I have already grabbed on of the new VC corpse carts and am in love with the model. I'm planning to mount a necromancer on it and advnace it behind my main skelly units to offer support. However I noticed a possible combo the other day and i need help to see if it is valid. Therefore my questions are:
-as the corpse cart with necro is technically a ridden monster, can it join units?
-if so, would it be able to be targetted by missile fire whilst inside the unit?
-how would the cart affect ranks and files i.e would it count as one model for purposes of "front rank of five" and would it add ranks to the unit?
-can the cart benefit from the helm of command?

If the cart can indeed hide in a unit and benefit from helm of command i can see myself creating a very very nasty linebreaking unit with it. Picture a unit of 20 skellys, containing a vampire with helm of commandment and master of the black arts, and the corpse cart with a book of arkhan necro. It could vanhels itself rapidly across the table, then assualt the enemies main unit with a possible 18 WS 6 attacks, before you add the vampires attacks. and with so many casting dice in the unit, it would be easy to maintain the unit intact, possibly combining it with a banner for +4 rank bonus. I may have the totally wrong end of the stick here, but what do you guys think?

English 2000
19-03-2008, 05:22
yes if there is a necro on there
no
50*100 mm base - fits in the same as anything else (eg slaan, skaven screaming bell) so yes, you get more ranks for less models
yes

...but helm vamp can't be in combat so don't put him in with the corpse cart unit.

2d6 ws 6 attacks = good
S2 = not so good.

Most people won't fear that unit and will be able to deal with it easily.

nurgleallan
19-03-2008, 05:57
ah, i'd missed the bit about the helm vamp not being able to be in combat - cheers. lucky i planned on him being my spellcasting/support vamp. sadly it seems giving him forbidden lore and lore of beasts and turning him into an angry giant bear is off the cards now :cries: I know strength two isnt much but thats still a lot of hits and the carts presence gives me much needed ranks for combat res. I'll see how i go i guess. anyone else got any ideas?

English 2000
19-03-2008, 06:03
Well I have plans for the same thing as you, necro w/ vanhels, bound vanhels, extra die from a vamp with periapt.
This will give me 2 7+ attemps on 2 dice
1 bound vanhels
corpse cart spell

He will be in a unit of skellies with the +4 rank banner like you - the difference is in how I plan to use this unit.

The skellies are there to keep the cart/necro safe while he moves my army and gives it ASF. For me he is a supporter, not a fighter. Leave that for the vamps.

najo
19-03-2008, 06:59
The corpse cart is surprisingly very flexible in its tactical role. Here are some more ways to use it:

w/o a necro and placed behind units, it becomes a bound spell that it underestimated, making undead around it strike first when your opponent doesn't expect it.

with a necro, you are going to want to put it in a unit to protect him. As its Unit Sterength is less than 5, it can hide in the unit from range attacks.

based on the magic items given the necro the corspe carts' role changes:
1) with a power stone and the sceptre of noirot it becomes a support raise dead/ necromancy platform. Make sure black periapt is on a vampire, so you can get 3 power dice into the pool.

2) with Rod of Flaming Death it becomes a weapon platform.

3) with Hand of Dust it is a surprise when it attacks or is charged.

With out a unit, but with a necro with nightshroud and wristband of black gold, it becomes bait, just make sure to have it supported with another unit nearby.

Khorneflakes
19-03-2008, 09:24
are skeletons str 2 now? or is that the corpse cart

Balgor
19-03-2008, 09:45
Hmm I am going to have to double check this, but from reading the VC army book, the corpse cart can not join units. Like I said I may of misread this but I will check later just to make sure.

Latro
19-03-2008, 10:00
are skeletons str 2 now? or is that the corpse cart

The Cart.


:cool:

Khorneflakes
19-03-2008, 10:07
Thanks Latro

najo
19-03-2008, 10:10
Hmm I am going to have to double check this, but from reading the VC army book, the corpse cart can not join units. Like I said I may of misread this but I will check later just to make sure.

If it is ridden by a necromancer it counts as a monster mount and can join units. Its just like a character being mounted on a chariot. Monsters though can join any unit, where as chariots can only join chariot units. The corpse cart ridden by necromancer can join a unit.

Lucky24/7
19-03-2008, 10:13
I belive the cart is more suited in a second line opersonally, due to a nice str7 popping the cart for lots of combat res aginast the fragile skelle units.

I belive it would be better behing 3 decent sized units and allow for the spells to have masimum effect for a giant hord marching towards you oppenent

theunwantedbeing
19-03-2008, 10:24
Take 10, that's -10 to cast for the enemy.

DeathlessDraich
19-03-2008, 10:51
-as the corpse cart with necro is technically a ridden monster, can it join units?

Maybe but probably not. See **


-if so, would it be able to be targetted by missile fire whilst inside the unit?

Yes, pg 60


-how would the cart affect ranks and files i.e would it count as one model for purposes of "front rank of five" and would it add ranks to the unit?

This has been heavily debated. 2 schools of thought:
A) Follow the rank and number of models rules for Screaming Bell or Slann
B) Let the Cart fit in neatly for aesthetic reasons but count it as 1 model when resolving for flanks and number of models.

Take your pick. :p


-can the cart benefit from the helm of commandment?

Yes. All 2D6 attacks should benefit from it plus the mounted necromancer since it is 1 model. There are no 'steeds' pulling the Cart.



Hmm I am going to have to double check this, but from reading the VC army book, the corpse cart can not join units. Like I said I may of misread this but I will check later just to make sure.

The Cart "moves and fights as a monster is the only restriction

** The Necromancer uses the Cart as a mount making it a monstrous mount.
Pg 58.
Flying mounts definitely cannot join units but the question here is whether a character on a Monstrous mount is still a monster.

I doubt whether many players would accept that a Monster ceases to be a monster as soon as it is mounted.

Therefore the rule that Monsters cannot join units - pg 58 should also be applicable to characters on Monstrous mounts.


If it is ridden by a necromancer it counts as a monster mount and can join units.

Definitely not true if the monster can fly - pg 72


Monsters though can join any unit,

I'm afraid it cannot - pg 58

Omens
19-03-2008, 11:03
I belive the cart is more suited in a second line opersonally, due to a nice str7 popping the cart for lots of combat res aginast the fragile skelle units.


It is not a chariot so a st7 hit wont insta pop it.

SuperBeast
19-03-2008, 11:34
I belive the cart is more suited in a second line opersonally, due to a nice str7 popping the cart for lots of combat res aginast the fragile skelle units.

I belive it would be better behing 3 decent sized units and allow for the spells to have masimum effect for a giant hord marching towards you oppenent

The corpse cart isn't a chariot, so doesn't get instapopped by S7 attacks...

najo
19-03-2008, 20:26
I'm afraid it cannot - pg 58

I didn't express myself clearly. Any RIDDEN monster can join a unit, as in a monster mount. I know and assume by the direction of this discussion that we are not talking about unridden monsters. Through my whole post, I clearly state when a necromancer is riding the corpse cart it counts as his mount.

So please go and read the rules on characters riding monsters and then state your opinion on the corpse cart joining units.

tom1354788
20-03-2008, 00:35
on a side note can you put a vargulf in a unit of dire wolves? cus that would be awsome, the combat ability with the ranks, and unit strengh to void ranks on side and rear charges.

SuperBeast
20-03-2008, 00:57
Dire wolves already void ranks and if there's 3+ models in the unit you get the flank/rear charge bonus.
But no; Varghulf is a monster, and as it is not a monstrous mount, cannot join units.

tom1354788
20-03-2008, 03:22
what i was saying that on his own the vargulf does not have a high enough unit strengh to void ranks but if inside a unit of dire wolves he would.

shame you cant do that though, i think its quite fluffy.

theunwantedbeing
20-03-2008, 03:27
Varghulfs become a whole lot better when you forget they cant negate ranks....

tom1354788
20-03-2008, 04:04
indeed they do, though its not that big of a deal really, just run them with 2 units of 5 wolves, and have the vargulf attack the front and the wolves the side to negate the rank bonus.

1 unit can act as a screen for the vargulf and of course the vargulf being a vampire means that the wolves can march and keep up. its a really nice, really fast, hard hitting unit (group of units), that is oh so flexable as well. (not too expensive either, and hard to shoot due to there being 3 units)

Its quite a nice little combo that a lot of people seem to underestimate, i have that going down one of my flanks and some black knights with a vampire down the other, all the shooting always seems to go for the knights when actually the wolves and vargulf is the harder hitter.

Frankly
20-03-2008, 14:58
...and of course the vargulf being a vampire means that the wolves can march and keep up....

.

ahhhhh ... nice, I didn't see that, thats cool. Thanks for the heads up.

nurgleallan
21-03-2008, 01:25
thanks for the replies guys. so have we pretty much reached the consenus that the cart CAN join units? Also, i reckon the dire wolves and varghulf idea is a brilliant one, i'm going to have to steal that :evilgrin: mind you, i could lose the ability to march across my army and still outmanuver my regular opponents - a dwarf gunline :o and a wood elf player who doesn't realise he can kick the living daylights out of me if he actually bothered to manuver :rolleyes:

Dux Ducis
21-03-2008, 02:12
It's still pretty vague, although it seems to me that they can join units of zombies and skellies (also nice and fluffy IMO). If using it as a mount for a necromancer it's even more vague as to whether it can still join other units.

I'd personally not use it as a mount as the necro can be targeted in close combat.

How many models would it displace if it were in a unit - 6? 8?

Negafex
21-03-2008, 03:31
if the corpse cart is in combat can it still use its bound spell? if so then thats a tad rediculous. 2d6 attacks joined to a unit (even at strength two) is still bound to cause quite a few wounds. add into that a hand of dust and you have yourself a quite reiculous troop smashing unit

Dux Ducis
21-03-2008, 04:50
It's not that rediculous.

It's a bound spell lvl3 - easy to stop if you still have dispell dice left over.

Darkangeldentist
21-03-2008, 05:38
If you have dispel dice left of course. Which is an entirely different matter.

Dux Ducis
21-03-2008, 05:42
In that case, any bound spell magic item could be 'a tad rediculous', no?

How many models does a corpse cart displace in a unit?

nurgleallan
22-03-2008, 04:39
well how many normal models would fit on its base? if its a chariot base (i haven't even opened my kit yet) it would be two wide and six deep yes?