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Zikan
20-03-2008, 03:07
Daemon Prince-555 Lore of Fire (hopefully to get flaming sword)
Level 4, Blade of Ether, Soul Hunger, Diabolic Splendour, Master of Mortals

Exalted Champions of Tzeentch-212
MoT, Slaughterer's Blade, Shield

Bray-Shaman-166 (beasts)
Level 2, Braystaff, Scroll, Chaos Armor, Spell Familiar

10x Warriors of Tzeentch-225
Shields, FC, Warbanner, MoT

5x Chosen Knights of Khorne-370
FC, Chosen, MoK, Banner of Rage

5x Marauder Horsemen-101
Flails, Throwing Axes, Music

Chariot of Chaos-120

5x Flesh Hounds-80

5/5 Beast Herd-80
Music, Champ

Spawn of Slaanesh-75

Total Points:1984
Models:40
PD:11
DD:7+1 scroll


So I have 16 points left over and dont know what to spend it on. The flesh hounds as I have used them so far just utterly destroy any supporting unit such as fast cav or skirmishers which is usually what they hit anyway. Ill try to keep my center with the chaos warrior/beast herd combo with 2 mages in it. The daemon prince will fly around supporting combat and blasting people with fire. (And always trying to get the flaming sword off before combat) I try to combo charge with my knights and either chariot or marauders. Otherwise the marauders run up on the flank of some unit and pepper it with axes.

C&C greatly appreciated thanks!
Im mainly wondering if the FC on the beast herd is worth it

Violadudester
20-03-2008, 06:30
Yeah I wuld drop the command on the herd. Get a mark of tzeentch on the chariot and you'll be good to go.

Sarael
20-03-2008, 12:48
I'd probably drop the command and the banner on the chosen knights of Khorne (do they really need that much killy?) for another chariot w/ MoTz on both (one moved from teh warriors). If you've got points left, give the warriors either Nurgle (4 colors of Chaos) or Slaanesh to help them in combat, because Tz doesn't help them any, and Khorne would leave them too susceptible to being kited by fast cav. Khorne is fine on knights, because they'll probably run down (or off the board) anything trying to kite them, but frenzied infantry is too easily led about.

Yehoshua
20-03-2008, 13:31
I worry about the utility of your warrior unit and exalted champ setup.

10 warriors, especially Tzeentch marked (because they lack psychology resistance) are not a durable unit. Three casualties forces an unmodified panic test, they have to make fear and terror checks, they have a static CR of 3 (2 as soon as they take a couple wounds), and will generally be outnumbered by the end of combat.

The Exalted Champ only has 2 wounds, so the Slaughterer's Blade is not going to be of nearly as much use as it would be on a Nurgle Champ or a Chaos Lord. You could save points by going with a flail, getting to spend your magic allotment elsewhere. Also, unless you're running an undivided champion with marauders using the HoME, there is no reason to have them on foot. Horses are good for your health.

For one point more than the combined point costs of the Warriors and the Champ, you could have:
Exalted Chaos Champ
MoT, Flail, Chaos Steed, Power Familiar (2+ AS, +1PD/+1DD, 7 ST first round, does not strike last)
25 Marauders w/ FC, LA, and shield (4 static CR plus high likelihood of outnumber, 5+ AS, 4+ to the front in CC, initially require 6 casualties to take a panic test or lose a rank, same effective LD as the warriors)

You lose a point of WS, ST, TO, IN, and AS, but come away with a more effective unit - it can take many more wounds before losing combat effectiveness, and at that point you can have the Exalted leave the unit and carry the power familiar off with him.

Running the numbers on Avian's combat calculator, we see that the 10 man squad of warriors gets crushed (-3.4 CR) by WS 4 ST 4 cavalry with lances and a warbanner. The marauders tend to tie. Similar (though less dramatic) results ensue against a block of 25 Orc Boyz.

Also, Spawn of Slaanesh are the best spawn, but 2 working together are more than twice as good as 1 alone, and (imo) none are better than any (though that's certainly up for debate).

I would not pull the musician or champ off the beast herd. If you did, you would be taking rally tests at a flat 6 (as when they flee they will likely end up too far from your general), presumably watching your 246 points of herd+shaman running off the table.

12 PD is plenty, considering that you do not want to cast on 4 dice without the Staff of Change (otherwise you're basically guaranteed a miscast per game).


More thoughts:
Warhounds are a basic necessity to direct your frenzied knights (who don't need the champion, as noted by the above poster), limiting their LoS so they don't charge bait units.

Crispian25
20-03-2008, 18:51
Some pretty hardcore magic, there. I agree about cutting the Beast herd champion, but keep the musician, it's just a waste of points. I also agree with Yehoshua about your lack of psychological resistance. I would recommend refiguring your list to include a Battle Standard Bearer, to give you the re-roll on your break tests. Instead of the Exalted Champion, take an aspiring champion (all the same options as suggested), but upgrade him to the Battle Standard Bearer. It costs a couple more points, and doesn't have the flail option, but if it means you pass a break test you would have failed, then it has paid for itself. You can go with the Marauders group, as suggested by Yehoshua, but then you need to add a Tzeentch marked unit to make the character legit, so mark the chariot.

I would also recommend cutting the Spell Familiar from the Bray-shaman. A level 2 shaman typically gets off two spells per turn, and I guessing that you want to use your Tzeentch generated die on some of the more high-powered stuff for your Daemon Prince, so go for another scroll or use the points elsewhere.

Yehoshua
20-03-2008, 19:47
I would take screamers rather than marking the chariot.

Also, the champion in the Beast Herd confers a 7LD, the shaman doesn't give you jack. I think the foe-render and the musician should stay.

One option would be to Nurgle mark the chariot, drop the nurgle shaman to lvl 1, and give him the mark of nurgle, the chaos armor, and the goretooth. This turns him into a tough close combat character who gives your herd psych resistance, but keeps your DD around. If you dump spare points into the herd, it's actually got some bite.

Zikan
20-03-2008, 20:42
Thanks a lot for the responses guys, the input helps a lot :)
The thing about the chaos warriors is I dont have any marauders on foot yet... so have to stick with a warrior unit. I think I will change the exalted to a BSB for 5 more points and I want to give him the Slaughterer's Blade just for the +2 str (as that is the only one which confers +2 str available for him) but I'm not sure on that one. Im keeping the champ and music on the herd but am having lots of problems deciding on what to do with the shaman. I took him MAINLY as a caddy but changed my mind half way through kitting him and decided he can provide a little more resilience to the herd with his high AS (Especially with bears anger) and didnt really have anything better to do with the points than give him another spell.

On the chosen knights, I've run them like this in most of my undivided/khorne lists and they generally kill anything I ask. Would they still do so without the command? I put the Banner of Rage on just in case they bounce (I really dislike losing them to an unlucky dice roll), and as they are the main hitty force of my army, I want to keep them around at the very least for a point denial. But really want more help on what to give them.

The BSB can only be in a unit marked the same so dropping MoTz on the warriors is a little out of the question as I have no marauder models :/. But more ideas here is appreciated!

Anyway, I hope more thoughts and ideas come in. Thanks!

Crispian25
21-03-2008, 01:21
Cool idea. I typically use my bray-shaman to give Bear's Anger to a champion/lord on foot, and then as a dispel scroll caddy, instead of powering himself. The knights will do well without the command, but I wouldn't risk it. Such a small unit usually needs the extra attack and point of CR to help negate the ranks/outnumber of larger foes, especially after a casualty or two. You could also, though I don't recommend it, put the BSB in the chariot. I've done this in the past with some success, but it can leave your standard units to fend for themselves. Best of luck!