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Dranthar
21-03-2008, 14:52
Vampire Lord w. Extra Level - 440
Master of the Black Arts, Sword of Kings,
Lord of the Dead, Black Periapt,
Infinite Hatred, Crown of the Damned
Nightshroud

Vampire - 200
Infinite Hatred, Walking Death
Sword of Might, Flayed Hauberk, Talisman of Lycni

Necromancer - 105
Book of Arkhan, Extra Spell (Invocation and Van hels)

Necromancer - 90
Power Stone, Extra Spell (Invocation and Van Hels)

25 Skeletons - 245
Full Command
War banner

25 Skeletons - 255
Full Command, Spears
Banner o Hellfire

14 Ghouls - 120
Ghast

14 Ghouls 120
Ghast

Corpse Cart - 100
Balefire

5 Dire Wolves - 40

5 Dire Wolves - 40

10 Black Knights - 315
Full Command, Banner of Strigos

Vargulf - 175


Total: 2245

10 Power Dice, 7 Dispel Dice

I've only played one game so far with the new VCs but i've noticed there's a real trick to using your magic well. Placement of the right magic users in the right places is critical, which is why I've tried to keep the necromancers flexible in what they can do. Basically I'll be aiming to raise a zombie unit or two with the vampire, and then let the necromancers feed those zombies when they're not trying to cast van hels. That's assuming my main infantry blocks aren't getting pummelled by shooting/magic, in which case the necros will be busy enough as is!

Now correct me if I'm wrong here, but the banner of hellfire should give flaming attacks to my magic weapon-wielding vampires too? Basically then, I can use the spear-skeletons in conjunction with my vampire/s to hunt down treemen and other flamable targets. But if I'm facing something immune to fire (dragon princes), I need only dump my vampires in the second skeleton unit and use the spear-skeletons to take on something else.

Oh, and I decided to kit out my Vampire Lord for taking on characters. I figure he's good enough against rank and file to start with, and the nightshroud should give him a nice edge against high elves too. ;)

Thoughts?

heinrichvoncarstein
21-03-2008, 18:35
I would swap a vanhels on one of the necros for a raise dead spell and give him scetre de noirot.

DrakenhofGuard
21-03-2008, 19:38
Do you need two units of 25 skellies because the way i see it you could take off 5 in both units and raise them up to 25 in the first turn with your Lord because he has the Lord of Dead ability Otherwise i find the lord of dead ability to be a waste anyways it frees up 80 points a bit of an odd amount to spend but im sure there are spots where it could be useful

heinrichvoncarstein
21-03-2008, 23:06
You can spend those pts on a unit of 4 fell bats, just enough to outnumber those poor warmachine crew. :evilgrin:

Frankly
22-03-2008, 00:38
Played anymore games with the list?

Sarael
22-03-2008, 04:23
With a casty vamp you're going to want to give almost all your dice to him, which leaves the necromancers with just their own single die (and the power stone). You won't get much accomplished with them, though I often take one w/ 2 dispel scrolls so my vampires can be choppy (though if all you want is the book and can't sacrifice armor and ward on the lord, take the necro with the book, it's mandatory before anything else IMO). My Count, though, is always a caster (so far, at least). While I can see the benefit of a choppy lord, I find that the lord slot is better used for a caster (so my magic is focused there) and that 2 vampires who are choppy do better than a single choppy lord, while a single caster lord does better than 2 caster vampires. I'd also rather have 2 units of 5 black knights as opposed to one unit of 10. All that's just my opinion though; outside of that (and the minor metagame quibble about the banner of hellfire) I like your list. Big starter blocks of skellies means you can be more offensive with your magic than defensive.

Dranthar
22-03-2008, 05:32
Okay, so the way I figure it, 25 is a good number for the skeleton blocks. As Sarael said it allows me to be a little more offensive with my magic early on, and if I only take 20 then my necromancers can only raise them up to 20, making it more difficult to maintain that +3 rank bonus without devoting my vampire to nothing but invocations (not good when he's got so much other cool stuff to cast).

Lord of the Dead is something I've taken pretty much just for the +1 to cast. Raising them above 25 probably isn't needed, but it's a nice option to have.

The black knights are a unit I'm still thinking about. They worked quite well last game as a block of 10, but I've never been much of a person for knight blocks. Taking 2x5 reduces them to flanking roles and would probably save me points from the command models too. Then again, they're much less likely to hold their own with 5 models.

I've thought about fell bats, but I figure undead are actually quite resistant to enemy shooting, and if I need to go war machine hunting my Vampire is quite capable of filling that role. :D

Finally, the Scepter de Noirot. At first I wasn't too sure about taking it, given I could boost the unit by 5-10 models with invocation anyway. But thinking about it, it saves me having to get off an invocation to make the unit a half decent size and it forces my opponent consider any castings of raise dead from that model as much more threatening. Hmmm, it might be worth a try, I just need to find the points for it...from the black knights perhaps? :confused:

As for magic, I figure the Vampire Lord with 5 PD, should have plenty of flexibility in what he can cast without drawing from the pool (although he still can if necessary). Also the Black Periapt lets me add a power die to the pool depending on enemy magic, which can be used anywhere it might be needed at the time.
What I'm still up in the air about is the van hels on the necromancers. With 2PD their chances of casting it are above 50%. In my last (and first) game with the new VCs I found that van hels was simply needed more than raise dead (I only cast Raise dead once in the game, and even then it wasn't necessary). For now I might stick with van hels, but we'll see how it fares.

I may or may not have a game next tuesday, so we'll see how the list fares then. ;)

Dranthar
26-03-2008, 02:00
Okay, so I had a game with the above list on Tuesday vs Empire. I won't go too much into details, but basically I wiped him out for the loss of one unit of Dire wolves (shot down by a helblaster). He had;

Wizard Lord on Pegasus (Lore of Light)
(Ran for two turns after an early magic charge, was finally cornered and killed last turn by a magic-charging vargulf)

Warrior Priest
~25 Great Swords w. Full command
(Charged by Ghouls, supported by magic-charged dire wolves and vargulf. Held out for a turn but ran after that.)

Captain
Wizard (Lord of Beasts)
~25 Swordsmen w. Full Command
(Magically Charged on the flank, ran after the second round with some help from an overunning vargulf)

20 Flaggelants
(Charged into Vampire Lord w. Skeletons, Vampire Lord wiped them all out with his infinite hating sword of kings...and some help from the spear skeletons too)

10 Crossbows
(Taken down by about 30 raised zombies in the rear)

~2 units of 7 archers (detachments)
(Died various horrible deaths...by Dire wolves mainly)

5 Pistoliers
(Hid from the Dire wolves/vargulf, killed some ghouls and then charged and wiped out by said ghouls)

5 Knights
(Magic charged by ghouls early on, lost and ran, then failed to charge the vargulf and subsequently magic charged by vargulf, ran, and wiped out by 5 zombies right behind them)

Cannon
(wiped out by overunning ghouls)

Cannon
Helblaster
10 Swordsmen (detachment)
(All annihilated by Black Knights, one after the other)

Some of my thoughts;

Units of 25 skeletons works really well. It saved me from spending power dice to raise them up to a decent size and allowed my Vampire to cast more dangerous spells early on. In the entire game I don't beleive I cast invocation on those skeletons even once.

Vanhels is a very good spell, to say the least. It was this single spell (and my ability to attempt it multiple times) that allowed me to pull off some charges that really messed up my opponents units. As above, the fact that I could actually concentrate on using it rather than raising skeletons/ghouls is pretty much what led to such a total rout for my opponent.

With vanhels and an invocation each, my necromancers always had something to do. My Vampire used his raise dead spell twice throughout the game and in all honesty it wasn't needed either time. On the plus side when he did cast it it gave my Necromancers something to put invocations into, which certainly isn't a bad thing. In light of this though, I probably won't bother taking the sceptre de noirot.

Black Periapt is great. The fact that it adds the power die to your communal pool enables all three of my level 1's to cast a spell on 2 dice, and then have the Vampire Lord do his thing with 5 dice.

This game I put my corpse cart directly behind my infantry and it worked out very well, since I was protected from the worst of the enemy shooting while still supporting them with the bound spell.

A Vargulf charge combined with wolves for denying ranks is a fearsome combo. I'll be pairing the two up more often.

The Black knights in this game just plowed through artillery most of the time and looking back, I would have done just as well with 6 models. Still, for now I'll keep them at 10 and see how they fare.

Lord of the Dead has thus far proved useless, given that I've never actually used invocation on my skeletons. I'm very tempted to swap it over to the Ghoul version, but I think I want to face a more shooty army before making such a move. I don't quite like the idea of my main-line units getting whittled down by massed firepower.

And finally, hatred is a great rule that helped avoid quite alot of missed hits, especialy on the black knights. As far as I'm concerned, the Banner of Strigos is a far better choice than the banner of barrows for the black knights.