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Gussy
21-03-2008, 19:46
Does anyone know approximately how much "discount" off retail price a store would get when buying from GW wholesale?

One of the shops I deal with likes to wheel and deal. So, I'm trying to figure out how much room he has. :D

Lardidar
21-03-2008, 19:52
This is UK.

A 50 set cost me 32.51 after all taxes.

So thats about at 35% discout .... it is less on LOTR but better on printed stuff (novels/codex) as you don't pay VAT.

Bear in mind he has to order 100 at a time, so if its just one thing you want that they are missing from stock they have to place a decent sized order to get it.

Kroot Lord
21-03-2008, 20:16
All the indies in the Trading Forum area (Gamingfigures for example) get 50% off.

Brandir
21-03-2008, 21:15
The GW trade discount varies between 45% and 35% depending on the product. After taking off the 45% GW then add 17.5% VAT for UK orders. Of course if a trader is registered for VAT (ie turnover 60,000+) then they can claim that back.

Anyone can open a GW trade account. Minimum first order is now 350 at trade prices. Subsequent orders are 150 at trade prices for post paid but if you are willing to pay postage then GW trade has no minimum order. Note that GW trade do not have minimum orders in terms of timescale to maintain an account.

So, if you and a mate or twio want brand new armies simply open a GW trade account!

Note that the above information is from the latest trade sheet for the UK.

stuartgw
21-03-2008, 23:30
i suggest that you contact the UK trade department, if you are based in the UK. You can find their email address on the contact page of teh GW website.

They will be able to give you full details on the starting orders, suggested ranges and discount structures that are available. In terms of your friend wanting to do a deal, they wont happen im afraid. the basic costs are the same for everybody,across all three model ranges, it is only the additional discounts that change and that is dependant on factors like turnover, length of time with GW and how many stores you own that stock GW.

Your friend will need to be albe to prove he is a bonefide retailer (Sells to the general public) else his account application will be refused. Ther terms he will be offerd are standard across Europe. The US, OZ and Japan will be different.

WargamesEmpire
22-03-2008, 00:36
So, if you and a mate or twio want brand new armies simply open a GW trade account!


I'd be very careful about doing this. You are entering into a trade agreement with GW when you open a trade account and one of their terms specifically says "You must be a bone fide retailer, with the ability and intent to sell our products to the general public." You also have to provide details of your business before you begin trading with them. You could of course lie, but you could find yourself in a lot of hot water if you're found out.

It's 35% off. You can claim VAT back if you're a business, but if you're claiming VAT, you're also paying the government VAT, so the 35% off stays roughly the same whether you're VAT registered or not.

Lardidar
22-03-2008, 00:36
Anyone can open a GW trade account. Minimum first order is now 350 at trade prices. Subsequent orders are 150

It has recently been lowered to 100, after the inital 350 .... although this only game in with the August 2007 trade agreement.

And yes if your indy can clame his VAT back then he should be getting roughly 45% off but as has been said you then pay the goverment some too.

EDIT - @WargamesEmpire - They are however fine with you having an Ebay or online retail outlet, when I signed up I had a long talk with Paul Sayer on the phone about it.

WargamesEmpire
22-03-2008, 00:40
All the indies in the Trading Forum area (Gamingfigures for example) get 50% off.


If you've been told that, you've been lied to.

The absolute MAXIMUM GW offer is 40% off and to get that, you need to be turning over half a million pounds worth of stock per year!

Crazy Harborc
22-03-2008, 02:43
When I was a partner in a gaming shop, the best discount was 40% off of list. GW was new in this country, it was in the 70s-80s.

Friends who were are in the business carried GW products...bitched a lot about GW's attitude(s) by the by. Over the years, I was told that GW gave a 40% discount....BUT you could get another 3 to 7%. Various conditions had to be met. Higher reorder minimums, paying the bill in full in X number of days, up front, whatever.

I don't keep track anymore. The less GW I buy the less I care. I buy at a discount from an indie.:D

ryntyrr
22-03-2008, 03:17
I think GW should offer 50% for their trade price and a minimum order of 50 quid. They need to push as many products out their to as many independants.

Emperor Protects

Ryn

grickherder
22-03-2008, 08:27
When orders get too small though, it's not cost effective to have the trade sales guys fill them. I think 100 quid/$200 is perfectly reasonable though. What they really need is stopping from trying to push the latest stuff on indie store owners who might know there's not big interest in say, plastic black orcs, the new giant or whatever.

stuartgw
22-03-2008, 11:34
Grickherder - the UK business has a comprehensive stockists program. In a nutshell this menas we only recommend you order from the top 100 best selling lines, nothing more. Once a moth we will put together a launch package from the new products lunched that month which will consist of the boxes we condiser will be the best sellers from that range, this normally will cost the store about 100 and give you ones or twos of boxes and a codex/army book if nessecary.

this allows the store to get in a small amount of new products to keep people coming into the store without detracting from the range they should have, best sellers.

frahill
22-03-2008, 11:51
All i can say is after dealing with GW for the last three months is they are very good to work with. Discount is 35% with the ability to go upto 42% based on turnover and paying early. An example would be after 6-12 months of paying invoices 21 days early you can get an extra 1% off.

Not everything is 35% off some stuff goes as low as 15% off so watch out. I sell via ebay/website/ and more so now word of mouth. I do this as a supplement to my hobby and it just bought me a 2k VC army.

brother malthius
22-03-2008, 16:34
I'd be very careful about doing this. You are entering into a trade agreement with GW when you open a trade account and one of their terms specifically says "You must be a bone fide retailer, with the ability and intent to sell our products to the general public." You also have to provide details of your business before you begin trading with them. You could of course lie, but you could find yourself in a lot of hot water if you're found out.


Yeah, god forbit you get any kind of discount when buying $700 worth of stuff from someone.

blongbling
22-03-2008, 16:44
thats right you shouldnt...why, its about being fair and offering teh same price to everyone and taking away subjectivity of "hes a good bloke, ill give him some extra off".

VetSgtNamaan
22-03-2008, 20:36
WHat what I have been told by the owner of the local indie he gets 40% discount off the retail price. Though GW Canada seems to be moving away from given any discount to indie stores on direct services only items so that it will draw people into the GW web store. Though it rarely matters now since they move so little GW product anymore now that the canadian dollar is so high.

After all a discount system is a decent way to boost sales. If you spend 500 dollars they give you a certain percent off. There is a fair and consistent way to do pretty much anything. A hobby store is a business selling luxury items any way to increase customer loyalty is a good one.

Mad Doc Grotsnik
22-03-2008, 21:13
Yeah, god forbit you get any kind of discount when buying $700 worth of stuff from someone.

So, essentially, rich people should pay lower prices than poor people?

How very pleasent of you....

Really, really don't get the mentality of 'I have lots of money, so you should sell stuff to me cheaper'. Surely, if you have lots of money, I'm going to mug you for every penny you have, since money matters less.

Khornies & milk
22-03-2008, 21:23
When you think about it the on-line store that offer 20-25% off are giving a pretty good deal, in that they are splitting their discount with us without taking into account their own overheads....seems very generous to me, especially as I get 25% off, and even if I only buy small amounts at a time sometimes.
If only GW would realize the fantastic opportunity they are missing to 'show they care' about us, by having a SALE every now and again. I don't think it would hurt them, and they would reap the benefits from it in more ways than just sales.

blongbling
22-03-2008, 21:54
the probelm is that if GW has a sale then what about all the stores it supplies? They would want to do the same, so how would that work? Beyond the "id love a sale. its great for me", logistically for GW it would be a nightmare and, as discussed in several threads on the discounts of sales before, not doable

brettz123
22-03-2008, 22:06
the probelm is that if GW has a sale then what about all the stores it supplies? They would want to do the same, so how would that work? Beyond the "id love a sale. its great for me", logistically for GW it would be a nightmare and, as discussed in several threads on the discounts of sales before, not doable

It doesn't have to be a sale. It could be a discount program just like most big American bookstores have. You pay x amount of money for a discount card and then get 10% or whatever off of every purchase. It encourages customer loyalty.

Templar Ben
22-03-2008, 22:14
So, essentially, rich people should pay lower prices than poor people?

How very pleasent of you....

Really, really don't get the mentality of 'I have lots of money, so you should sell stuff to me cheaper'. Surely, if you have lots of money, I'm going to mug you for every penny you have, since money matters less.

Not rich people, people that buy higher volume at once. It could be the same person and they just save up all year and make one big purchase. It is the same idea as the discount warehouses here in the States (Sam's Club and Costco for instance) where you pay less because you are in effect taking on some of the warehousing responsibility.

WargamesEmpire
22-03-2008, 22:56
There is one huge, fundamental problem with sales.

It devalues the product. Here in the UK, we have furniture stores that sell next to nothing all year round. People know that if they wait til January to refurnish their homes, they can get the same furniture they could have bought in July for up to 50% less.

Let's say GW did do a January sale each year, selling their products for 20% less. A lot of people are going to be left thinking, "if it's 20% less in January, why buy anything in any of the other 11 months of the year?"

We'd all love to see sales, but unfortunately GW aren't really in any direct competition with anyone so they have no real need to.

VetSgtNamaan
23-03-2008, 00:06
Pretty much what is happening now with GW Canada? I could pay so much more but I prefer to buy more for less so I will order from the states from a discounter or even better buy from people who are selling thier armies because they can't afford the time or money the hobby requires anymore.

Probably why GW Canada trade accounts are plumeting since many indies can now get thier stock from alliance instead of GW Canana paying us prices discounted.

Khornies & milk
23-03-2008, 01:09
It doesn't have to be a sale. It could be a discount program just like most big American bookstores have. You pay x amount of money for a discount card and then get 10% or whatever off of every purchase. It encourages customer loyalty.

OK, so 'sale' was the wrong word, but a Loyalty discount sounds like a great way to get repeat business, and show that our custom is appreciated. But in the end I personally couldn't care less about GW's pricing, as I get 25% off already. The Indies receive good discounts from GW and share that with their customers in an equitable way...win/win allround.

grickherder
23-03-2008, 02:05
Grickherder - the UK business has a comprehensive stockists program. In a nutshell this menas we only recommend you order from the top 100 best selling lines, nothing more. Once a moth we will put together a launch package from the new products lunched that month which will consist of the boxes we condiser will be the best sellers from that range, this normally will cost the store about 100 and give you ones or twos of boxes and a codex/army book if nessecary.

this allows the store to get in a small amount of new products to keep people coming into the store without detracting from the range they should have, best sellers.

That's very cool. I know in the US and Canada, trade sales seems to have ever shifting policies and approaches, with difficulties experienced by some and exemplary service experienced by others. It's obviously their job to sell as much to the independent stockists as possible. However, if I want to place an order including A, B, and C, I don't want to listen to a 5 minute spiel on why I should include X, Y, and Z.

My take though, is that GW is simply another supplier. Then you have to add in the headache that you have to deal with them directly and can't just add the order on the latest order with one of the distributors. Then they start wanting you to carry everything for their core lines, paints and whatnot. And you have to effectively negotiate discounts with GW separately from your other distributor(s) and you can't use your GW volume as part of your volume with a distributor to negotiate better rates there.

It's like if you shipped in a mail order business with 1/3 Fedex, 1/3 UPS and 1/3 DHL. You'd never have enough volume to negotiate good discount rates with any of them. While I generally don't like middle men taking a cut, there is something to be said for consolidation.

I remember 5 smaller stores I could get GW stuff from in the 90s that suddenly didn't have it anymore when GW stopped using the distribution network in the 90s in the US and Canada. These were stores who never did carry a lot of GW stuff (their main business might have been sports cards, board games, selling billiards tables, Radio Control racing, etc.,) but they could just tag stuff onto their orders with the distributors and carried the main games, some army books and a basic troop and leader for each army. I got into GW stuff in the early/mid nineties when I was in one of these stores. Got the 2nd edition box, a captain and special ordered the dreadnought because I thought it was cool.

It's great that GW is changing the way they deal with independent stockists. I also understand their desire to cut out the middle man, but if I was opening a new indie shop tommorow, I wouldn't sign on with GW. I'd go with graphic novels, comic books, clicky games, magic/pokemon/whatever, some Warmachine/Hordes, a couple model kits, anime DVDs, boardgames (especially Euros like Settlers of Catan and the like). And I'd get a decent amount off of retail regardless of quantity in any one specific line because my total volume with a small number of distributors would be right up there. And I wouldn't have to deal with GW reps wanting me to convert a third of my shelf space for GW products while demanding ridiculously high initial orders to get close to the discount you can get from typical distributors.

Also, being in Canada, dealing with GW Canada would be extra stupid. Right now as an individual, I can order up from the States and get it for less than the wholesale price of GW stuff directly from GW Canada. When an individual can source a small order for cheaper than a retailer buying in bulk, something is wrong. Step 1 if I wanted to sell GW stuff in a store in Canada, would be to find an American distributor. Even if the discount was crap (30% off), I'd do better than ordering through GW Canada-- much better. And if I couldn't find a decent distributor, I'd contact the largest stores that probably have a 40% off discount with GW and offer then a 5-7% to piggy back my order. Even with shipping, customs clearance (I'd do it myself as I've worked in importing), etc., I'd still come out miles ahead of an account with GW Canada.

blongbling
23-03-2008, 13:14
Grickherder - my understanding is that in the US and Canada GW sells through Diamond Alliance, thus mitigating this issue?????

The US business appears to have changed a lot as well since Steve Morgan went to take over the trade dept. I dont think however that you will find any supplier not wanting to push you for more space in your shop...thats just business.....

General Veers
23-03-2008, 13:25
A retailer can buy GW product from more than just Alliance, apparently other distributors do it as well.

However, I've been told by more than one retailer that many (one claims 50%) of the Lord of the Rings line is pulled to "Direct Only" and about 1/3rd of the WFB Vampire Counts is also "Direct Only". I don't know about 40K product. Meaning these independants can't buy those products anymore to resale?

This does not strike me as trade sale friendly. It's bad enough the discount is apparently so bad but not being able to buy the product to sell doesn't seem very bright. Maybe it is.

That's put a big crimp in my GW purchasing as I WILL NOT BUY from GW DIRECT. "Direct Only" translates to me as "we think you're stupid".

Anyway, whenever I start back into buying GW products it never seems to fail GW changes it's policy to mess up my retailers and therefor me.

blongbling
23-03-2008, 13:44
rubbish, 99% of the VC range is through indies and retail and most of the LotR range is available too.....ah the lies from indies :P

General Veers
23-03-2008, 14:54
Really, it's rubbish?

I hope you're right. I really do. I can't find anywhere else to buy the two items below except GW and they're not marked "direct" on the GW US website.

I'm off to chruch so I'm only listing my big two wants. If you or anyone else can point me to a US retailer that can sell me the following I would be greatly appreciative:

Uruk-Hai Troll
Easterling Kataphract BOXED SET

Those are the two items I really wanted. Don't bother offering the Warstore as a solution, he can't get those and some other items I've asked for.

Sorry for the digression...

Brandir
23-03-2008, 16:08
Some retailers use the 'not at or available at distributor' as an easy excuse for not having items in stock. Sometimes this is actually the case, but many times I would suggest not.

blongbling
23-03-2008, 17:06
Some retailers use the 'not at or available at distributor' as an easy excuse for not having items in stock. Sometimes this is actually the case, but many times I would suggest not.

so very true...or they blame their poor service on GW as well.....

Wintermute
23-03-2008, 17:55
However, I've been told by more than one retailer that many (one claims 50%) of the Lord of the Rings line is pulled to "Direct Only" and about 1/3rd of the WFB Vampire Counts is also "Direct Only". I don't know about 40K product. Meaning these independants can't buy those products anymore to resale?

Part of the problem is GW does not tell Indies what they can and can't obtain from them. because it does not produce and circulate a complete list of available products as other companies do.

As StuartGW has already stated GW encourage indies only to buy the top 100 selling items plus new releases. GW does not produce and mail out to indies a complete list of their products for sale but produces a quarterly product guide which only lists the top 100 items plus a few of the new releases due that quarter. This is supplemented with mailshots when major new releases are available detailing what will be in the 'launch package' as they call it.

If an indie wants the full product list, they have to obtain it from the GW website. Even if they do this, the list obtained does not state which items are 'Direct Only'. In order to discover what is (or isn't) Direct Order, the indie store has to contact their GW Sales rep.

Crazy Harborc
24-03-2008, 02:45
Perhaps GW has changed it's spots. IMHO, GW still plans to allow indies to build a following, a playing/buying base of happy young customers. Then surprise.......here comes a GW store.....right into that pre-existing market area that indie stores had developed.

I do know it happened in at least one area........But then I am just an old fart. Yea....that's it. It was some other company, some other products.:rolleyes:

grickherder
24-03-2008, 04:00
It's happened more than once.

blongbling
24-03-2008, 13:35
isnt that always going to happen to some extent though....as they ahve their own retail chain they also want to grow that. I know they are targeting areas a lot more better than before. it makes them more profit to have a good indie in an area than a GW store so they would only open on underperforming stors these days.

If you look att eh Elite store program that runs in different places in Europe but specifically in Scandanavia, GW actively helps these stores to become as good, if not better than a GW store and hasnt opened up on any of them.

I know that GW has opened a few stores in the UK on accounts that dont fulfill the potential of the area and my understanding is that they agreed to return all the stock from those stores or to help them with their ranges so they could carry on trading.

Is that such a bad thing for the hobbyist?

blongbling
24-03-2008, 13:36
Part of the problem is GW does not tell Indies what they can and can't obtain from them. because it does not produce and circulate a complete list of available products as other companies do.

As StuartGW has already stated GW encourage indies only to buy the top 100 selling items plus new releases. GW does not produce and mail out to indies a complete list of their products for sale but produces a quarterly product guide which only lists the top 100 items plus a few of the new releases due that quarter. This is supplemented with mailshots when major new releases are available detailing what will be in the 'launch package' as they call it.

If an indie wants the full product list, they have to obtain it from the GW website. Even if they do this, the list obtained does not state which items are 'Direct Only'. In order to discover what is (or isn't) Direct Order, the indie store has to contact their GW Sales rep.

that list is only of the produts that the store can order....its shouldnt have any MO only stuff on it apparantly

Crazy Harborc
25-03-2008, 00:30
Yes, I know GW has and still does sell the indies on stocking GW goodies. GW has and does give advice and promotional items (I believe that's NOT for free). If an indie or indies develope a market of players AND it's of "X" size, then GW will open a company store. That will usually result in many customers picking the company to shop and play in. I mean "gee gosh, all GW sells is their stuff and that's what the kiddies want".:rolleyes:

Gussy
25-03-2008, 00:57
Well, the store that I deal with gives me up to 35%. At least 20%...but moved me to 25% every since I showed him that I could easily get 20% off a lot off places. He used to tell me that he gets his stuff at 25%! Now he changes his story and give me 35% if I buy around $150. He said that GW "move his account to 40%".

I didn't expect this thread to end up with the "open your own account" thing. I was just trying to find out how much I can wheel and deal with this store. Oh, and he used to be in car sales!


Some retailers use the 'not at or available at distributor' as an easy excuse for not having items in stock. Sometimes this is actually the case, but many times I would suggest not.

Yup, there is a store here in San Francisco who is either just too lazy or maybe makes his money on other stuff that he always say it's not available yet. However, you can easily find it in other stores in the same metro area.

Also, the store that I wheel and deal with tells me he can get ANYTHING unless it is really out of stock at GW. He even has some of those Direct Only items!