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Caboose123
22-03-2008, 04:29
So, straight to it. (Not sure if this was asked before, by the way)

Is it possible to get a better than 1+ save, a 0+, a -1+ or whatever.
Again, I may have asked this up here before, just want your reasonings/opinions.

An example:
Oldblood ScalySkin 5+
Quetzl +1
Light Armour +1
Itzl+Mounted +2
Enchanted shield +2

A total of -1+ "minus-one-plus"

Obviously you will still fail on a 1, but a S6 hit will still reduce you to a 2+ save. :eek:

If we decide it is possible, to keep this thread alive, post up your examples of a lord/hero with as good a save as possible.

BTW

Magic Armour is one way to improve the weaarer's armour save to 1+ or even less!

theunwantedbeing
22-03-2008, 04:35
Yes its possible.
Page 30

Dark elves
Heavy armour,enchanted sheild,cold one,sea dragon cloak
0+, -1+ vs shooting/magic

Chaos mortals
Chaos armour,barded chaos steed,enchanted sheild
0+ save

Chaos beasts
Chaos armour,braystaff,chariot
0+

Wood elves
Light armour, enchanted sheild, steed
3+

showmydog
22-03-2008, 04:43
Empire captain/general
full plate 4+, barded warhorse 2+, enchanted sheild 0+.
only a 0+ but only 87 points in total. (for the captn)

WE? enchanted sheild and Helm of the hunt? they are both magic armor so this isnt possible

Caboose123
22-03-2008, 04:46
0+ is pathetic, and most characters can get that, try aiming higher! :p

Or 0+ without a steed!

Anyone who mentions the DE armour of blood gets a kick in the shins :D

the12thronin
22-03-2008, 22:30
Dwarf Lord: Shield Bearers, Shield, Rune of Stone using handweapon is 0+ shooting/ -1 HtH. With a magic weapon, he's 0+ all around.

theunwantedbeing
22-03-2008, 22:51
Sheild bearers limit your armour save at a maximum of 1+, so no 0+ save with sheildbearers.

Jack of Blades
22-03-2008, 22:55
0+ is pathetic, and most characters can get that, try aiming higher! :p

Or 0+ without a steed!

Anyone who mentions the DE armour of blood gets a kick in the shins :D

Blood Armour, Cold One, Shield, Sea Dragon Cloak, Lance.
Sorry, just had to :P

The Phat Dorf
23-03-2008, 05:07
why is it that DWARFS are not the ones with the best armor save? they can only get 1+ because they can't mount, but they should be the best armorsmiths in the world... empire just makes full plate armor thats as good as gromril??? what happened to the full plate armor of gromril for dwarfs? not logical

Bleakwood
23-03-2008, 06:12
why is it that DWARFS are not the ones with the best armor save? they can only get 1+ because they can't mount, but they should be the best armorsmiths in the world... empire just makes full plate armor thats as good as gromril??? what happened to the full plate armor of gromril for dwarfs? not logical

The full plate armor that Empire uses is made by dwarfs, mostly Empire based Dwarf artisan guilds :D. But true, its not made of gromril...
And even a blind beaver can see that dwarf gromril armour is very "full plate".
I think the reasoning is that the difference is too small to matter in large-scale affairs like battles.
In Mordheim there is a clear difference however.

And on topic: I played around with AB and I couldnt find anything that havent been mentioned that gives better than 0+, so dont expect anything more.
I could be wrong, been then again, the sun COULD rise in the west tomorrow...

Antigonos
23-03-2008, 15:12
How about VC. I strived to find a combo reducing their armour lower than +2 but unfortunately I found no solution. Does anyone who's better than me suggest something?

guillaume
23-03-2008, 15:37
the oldblood does get a fantastic armour save, but in terms of gaming potential, in pick up games, which I imagine most of us play, your oldblood will fall prey to warmachines. Cannons will make mince meat of it, so will characters killers equiped with no armour saves weapons.

It is a shame that he is so well protected, yet has so little killing potential.

I have more faith in ward saves than armour in general.

T10
23-03-2008, 15:59
How about VC. I strived to find a combo reducing their armour lower than +2 but unfortunately I found no solution. Does anyone who's better than me suggest something?

Vampire with Dread Knight bloodline power and the Enchanted Shield: Armour save 1+. It doesn't get any better for Vampires.

-T10

Kotobuki
24-03-2008, 06:25
Bretonnian Lord/Paladin

Heavy Armor, Shield, Barded Warhorse, Gromril Great Helm. Sure, it only gets you to a 1+... But it's re-roll-able. He's also still got points to make himself immune to poison and killing blow.

Last Edition you could swap the Shield for Enchanted Shield and get a 0+ re-roll... but it's no longer last edition.

Saben
24-03-2008, 06:53
Vampire with Dread Knight bloodline power and the Enchanted Shield: Armour save 1+. It doesn't get any better for Vampires.

Dread Knight and Walach's Hauberk also gives a 1+ save but with a 5+ ward save- note the Hauberk doesn't mention coming with a shield.

Slacker
24-03-2008, 07:07
Empire captain/general
full plate 4+, barded warhorse 2+, enchanted sheild 0+.
only a 0+ but only 87 points in total. (for the captn)

WE? enchanted sheild and Helm of the hunt? they are both magic armor so this isnt possible




Add Helm of the Skavenslayer and you're at -1+

Alathir
24-03-2008, 07:38
Yes it's quite possible but I don't like it. My gaming group house ruled that the best you can do is 1+. You can only wear so much armour, we say.

showmydog
24-03-2008, 12:57
Add Helm of the Skavenslayer and you're at -1+

again you cant take two items of magic armor (sheild and helmet)
also applies to the WE lord with helm..

T10
24-03-2008, 17:58
Yes it's quite possible but I don't like it. My gaming group house ruled that the best you can do is 1+. You can only wear so much armour, we say.

That argument deserves more derision and ridicule than the posting guidelines permit.

-T10

Lordmonkey
24-03-2008, 18:03
That argument deserves more derision and ridicule than the posting guidelines permit.

-T10

Thats a little harsh man :(

neo_ebrick
24-03-2008, 18:47
how about best overall save include ward saves?
high elf prince on foot
2+ rerollable AS with a 4+ ward save only two items

havoc626
25-03-2008, 02:39
Doombull with mark of Nurgle, Armour of Damnation (As you can take magical armour from the Hordes of Chaos), shield and Hand Weapon. 1+ ranged, 0+ HtH

Caboose123
25-03-2008, 03:02
Give the Oldblood Originally posted the Aura of Quetzl, so:

-1+ save and a 4+ ward save (only against S5 or higher, but you need S7 *i think* to get a 3+ save.

Without the ward save he could get a pretty nifty magic weapon, but still he has 4 S5 attacks *i think*, so i don't want to hear people say how he doesnt have killing potential.

Anyway, a rules a rule, you might as well say you wont play with wheeling movement if you're gonna say you won't play with better than 1+ save...

TheDarkDaff
25-03-2008, 04:04
Doombull with mark of Nurgle, Armour of Damnation (As you can take magical armour from the Hordes of Chaos), shield and Hand Weapon. 1+ ranged, 0+ HtH

You need to check you copy of Beasts of Chaos. A Doombull may take a Magic Weapon worth upto 100 points. They can't take any other magic items at all.

On the Dark Elf guy i always feel better off with the Shield of Ghrond rather than the ES just because that -1S modifier is better than the extra pip of armour.

havoc626
25-03-2008, 05:20
You need to check you copy of Beasts of Chaos. A Doombull may take a Magic Weapon worth upto 100 points. They can't take any other magic items at all.

Your right, I missed that, good thing I never fielded him

Masque
25-03-2008, 08:03
Doombull with mark of Nurgle, Armour of Damnation (As you can take magical armour from the Hordes of Chaos), shield and Hand Weapon. 1+ ranged, 0+ HtH

Also... Doombulls don't get Scaly Skin from the Mark of Nurgle. They get +1 Wound instead.

gaiaterra
29-03-2008, 23:27
I play a queztl army and us a oldblood with a -1 save, a 5+ward and Venom of the Firefly Frog (mundane weapons do magical poisoned attacks). Sometimes also give him a Piranha Blade or Burning Blade of Chotec.
I have found him to have a great killing potential, not many characters come with 5 strength 5 attacks.
I also use the same set up on foot but give him a great weapon aswell (useful against chariots).

Caboose123
30-03-2008, 00:54
I would suggest the 4+ ward save instead, as S5 still allow a 2+ save against said character, plus if you run a Quetzl army, its lots more fluffy to have the Aura of Quetzl...

Anyway back on topic, since this topic is alive again, post up your examples of extremly good armour saves

Chicago Slim
30-03-2008, 03:06
Yeah, poor wood elves, with their poor armor saves... except for the guy with Oaken Armor (and a shield, and a horse) and the Stone of Crystal Mere: he gets a 4+ armor save, 3+ ward (until it fails) AND a 4+ Regeneration. Not bad. No Tyrion, but it's not bad.

And, he still have 20 points for weapons...

AhSmiteMe
30-03-2008, 08:52
Dward runelord on an anvil:

Hand weapon, shield, gromril armour
Rune of stone, Rune of resistance
Master rune of spite, rune of luckx3

This gives him a 1+ rerollable armour, 4+ ward
with 3 rerolls on the ward if you want to go OTT
Plus hes unbreakable!

T10
30-03-2008, 10:40
Don't break the Rule of Three. The Master Rune of Spite and the Rune of Luck are both Talismanic runes.

-T10

Alathir
30-03-2008, 10:50
That argument deserves more derision and ridicule than the posting guidelines permit.

-T10

I guess I'll have to settle for this awesome comment then.

Poor me.

T10
30-03-2008, 12:38
No, seriously.

You'll accept a character with a 0+ armour save on foot, but put him on a barded horse and he's suddenly wearing too much armour?

-T10

Cragspyder
30-03-2008, 12:51
Tomb King with Armour of the Ages, HW, and shield!

Woot Woot, 3+ save in CC, 4+ otherwise....

The best we can get is a 3+ save, and we need to take magic armour and become much, much worse in H2H because of it.

I hate how few options TKs get.

Draconian77
30-03-2008, 13:26
While its true the Tomb Kings dont get much in the way of magic armour they do have T5 and 3 wounds on a hero and they can restore wounds in the magic phase so its not all bad.

Necronoxz
30-03-2008, 20:56
in the old vampire count book it was possible to get a 0+ save
to do it like this:
famaly blood dragon so full plated armour 4+ armour save
barded nightmare +2 totaal 2+ armour save
enchanted shield +2 totaal 0+ armour save

in the new vampire book this is reduced to a 1+ armour save
vampire power dread knight and enchanted shield

Alathir
31-03-2008, 02:14
No, seriously.

You'll accept a character with a 0+ armour save on foot, but put him on a barded horse and he's suddenly wearing too much armour?

-T10

haha well yeah.

We just think its a simpler, more rounded way of doing things - you don't have to adhere to it.

Borthcollective
01-04-2008, 14:29
Tomb King with Armour of the Ages, HW, and shield!

Woot Woot, 3+ save in CC, 4+ otherwise....

The best we can get is a 3+ save, and we need to take magic armour and become much, much worse in H2H because of it.

I hate how few options TKs get.

Your 3+ becomes way better than anyone elses when you destroy their magic armor and or normal armor.

Wolfmother
01-04-2008, 20:29
"Chaos beasts
Chaos armour,braystaff,chariot
0+"

dont get plus 1 for being mounted on a chariot

penguin663
01-04-2008, 20:36
"Chaos beasts
Chaos armour,braystaff,chariot
0+"

dont get plus 1 for being mounted on a chariot

You get plus 2.

GodHead
01-04-2008, 21:25
Against shooting only.

WusteGeist
01-04-2008, 21:32
Just rember that a 0 is the best you can do period stop. Going past zero just does not happen by the logic of the red rule book of doom tm.

theunwantedbeing
01-04-2008, 21:42
Open your rulebook to page 30 WusteGeist.
Then read the bit under "maximum save".

Now read the following.
Saurus oldblood(5+ scaly skin)
Light armour 4+
Enchanted sheild 2+
Cold one(as he took the itzl spawning) 0+ (it gives +2 to the bearer's save)
Quetzl mark(as he took the quetzl spawning) -1+

So Mr. oldblood here laughs at your puny 0+ limit.

Tarian
01-04-2008, 21:47
Back in the old 6th Edition HE book, my Lord had a -1+ rerollable against shooting and was stubborn. The odds of him dying to shooting were quite low, even against the famed Helblasters.

(Then again, he took 2 wounds in one round of shooting from 10 Brettonian Longbows...)

GodHead
01-04-2008, 21:49
Back in the 5th edition, there was no rule about failing on a roll of a 1, regardless of modifiers.

Good old 1+ saves...

soots
01-04-2008, 21:55
Anyone remember the special edition white dwarf Grombrindal character?

I think you could get like a 3+ save on *2D6* with him. Terminator armor on the fantasy board.

The good old dwarf sceptre lol

SuperArchMegalon
02-04-2008, 05:02
The best overall defensive character I could come up with was:

Dwarf Runelord
Shield
Rune of Striking
RoStone+MRoSteel+RoResistance
MroSpite+MRoLuck

WS7, never wounded on better than a 4+, 1+ rerollable armor save, never worse than 3+ rerollable, 4+wardsave, with 1 reroll.

293 points.

Glimfeather
02-04-2008, 07:07
I have not seen a posting that indicates what I am about to say, so here goes:

While the armor save will always fail on a 1, it is important to know the true modified AS value (down to negative numbers) so that after applying strength modifiers to attacks, the final AS value will be known.

After all, if you have a -1 AS and are wounded with a str 5 attack (-2 to AS) then your AS will be 1 (still failing on a one)

vs.

if you have a 0 AS and are wounded with a str 5 attack (-2 to AS) then your AS will be 2.

Is this a reasonable interpretation?

Regards,

Chris

Benigno (WE)
02-04-2008, 10:15
I have not seen a posting that indicates what I am about to say, so here goes:

While the armor save will always fail on a 1, it is important to know the true modified AS value (down to negative numbers) so that after applying strength modifiers to attacks, the final AS value will be known.

After all, if you have a -1 AS and are wounded with a str 5 attack (-2 to AS) then your AS will be 1 (still failing on a one)

vs.

if you have a 0 AS and are wounded with a str 5 attack (-2 to AS) then your AS will be 2.

Is this a reasonable interpretation?

Regards,

Chris

Yes it is ^_^

Caboose123
02-04-2008, 16:10
Thats why -1+ (or better) is a good idea. The majority of enemy characters, for example, usually take Str bonus weapons instead of the ignore armour save weapons. Even a Str 7 attack (On my oldblood as its my fave example) allows a 3+ save and a 4+ save, pretty nifty.

One.Fit.Outcast.
14-04-2008, 23:23
My last opponent seemed to have an indecently good save
5+ heavy armour
3+ barbed steed
0+ flayed hauberk? that gives 4+ save, 5+ ward
-1+ shield
It was only when I looked at his list afterwards and realised he was combining magical and mundane armour did I realise why it was so hideously good.. he would've gone down much easier with only a 4+ save from hellblaster...
But yeah, the rules clearly say you can get better than 1+ so there we go. However it's usually a bit of a points sink really considering a hero with a unit is more likely to get chased down after losing combat, or a lone hero on big monster will die to artillery, particularly cannonshot....