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Alexander Keith
24-03-2008, 01:37
With the new Ghoulkin ability you can have every ghoul unit in your army taking a free march move before the first turn? So why not take nine units of 20 Ghouls and three vampires spread out to support the ghoul units which would allow them to march and be healed? You could even summon more Ghouls!


Do you think this could work? and why or why not?



Thanks

English 2000
24-03-2008, 03:09
No.

The reason is because no one wants to paint 180+ ghouls, let alone buy them :P

On a more serious note - yes it could work, however I would go for 8 ghoul units and beef up my vampires a bit more (I'm assuming a 2k game here).
A ghoul horde like this could be nasty prospect to face.

One problem is heavily armoured units - your only option is to tie them up until your vampires arrive to open some cans.
I can see bretonnians being particularly challenging.

2 lances of 8 KotR (with full command) hit a single unit of 20 ghouls:
16 knight attacks - 10.656 hits - 7.104 wounds
14 horse attacks - 7 hits - 2.333 wounds.
That is a total of 9.437 wounds.
You get no attacks back, add two ranks, standard and outnumber.
You lose by 13.437 on average, the rest of the unit crumbles and does.
He overruns and average of 10.5"
ie out of the charge range of you other units, he reforms the next turn and charges you again on his third turn.

If he has 4 blocks of knights you've just lost 4 units in 3 turns - half your army.

You will need some clever positioning to counter this. It can be done, just don't expect it to be easy - obviously I haven't takin into account that he may fail fear tests - either way expect a tough fight against a canny Bret player.

Costly in terms of $$$ too.

You may also find that some people don't want to play you after a while if they can't figure out how to beat you.
Hope that helps.

StefDa
24-03-2008, 10:15
He gets a Crypt Ghast's (champion) attacks. And it is actually a cheap army to make. Cheaper than most other, anyway.

Latro
24-03-2008, 11:05
The list becomes better by sacrificing a few Ghoul units and adding some Wolves and perhaps Varghulfs. The Wolves can slip through gaps between the Ghoul units and divert any dangerous charges while the Varghulf simply lurks around looking dangerous.


:evilgrin:

Your Mum Rang
24-03-2008, 12:59
Yeah.... go fluffy for Strigoi and add in Vargulf or Black Coaches (Strigany Caravans) and you're getting more and more competetive.

Frankly
25-03-2008, 05:26
Yes.

Although I haven't looked at it to much, I've busy playing zombie hordes. It looks really doable.

Frankly
25-03-2008, 05:32
No.


I can see bretonnians being particularly challenging.



You'd most likely hang back at start casting neheks on your units or start raising zombies as flanking options. There wouldn't be any need to rush towards Brits.

snyggejygge
25-03-2008, 15:28
2 lances of 8 KotR (with full command) hit a single unit of 20 ghouls:
16 knight attacks - 10.656 hits - 7.104 wounds
14 horse attacks - 7 hits - 2.333 wounds.
That is a total of 9.437 wounds.
You get no attacks back, add two ranks, standard and outnumber.
You lose by 13.437 on average, the rest of the unit crumbles and does.
He overruns and average of 10.5"
ie out of the charge range of you other units, he reforms the next turn and charges you again on his third turn.



Actually itīs even worse, Ghouls canīt have a standard....

@StefDa: A smart player directs atleast one attack on the champion to make sure he canīt attack back (& if that lone attacks fails, well you wouldīve failed killing a normal Ghoul anyway, so no loss).

For this to work the list would need some more support units, Iīd probably do it something like this:
Vampire Lord
2 Vampires
necro on plaguecart
4 Units of ghouls
2 units of Wolves
1 Unit of Black Knights (smallish, to support only)
some fell bats
2 Varghulfs
(2250 pts)

This would be a very fast army while not depending too much on the ghouls 6 characters.

xragg
25-03-2008, 16:51
Its not that different then an all dryad army, say 10 units of 12 dryads with a few characters/champions. The problem is it too much of the same thing and they are skirmishers. Like people mentioned, add in some other stuff, especially things that can take ranks out and your becoming more competitive. It would be much better to drop a few dryad units and add a couple wardancer units and a couple glade/wild rider units. The idea of swarming with dryads is still there, but the list is much more complete, just like with ghouls. The tactic with wood elves would be different, but the insight behind building the list isnt too different.

dzungia
25-03-2008, 17:09
Take summon ghouls and keep summoning :) Breton are not known to have the best magic defense. That will give you over 30 per unit. I did it against Dwarfs, I did it against Wood Elves. I had 4 blocks of 15 Ghouls. Against Bretons you have 2 turns (due to praying). Keep summoning, keep summoning... Well, I have a caster lord with Helm of Commandment by the way. That enables the summoning and of course please, recalculate the Breton charge with WS7 ghouls. In ghoul we trust! :)

By the way, I have not calculated how many ghoul models you need after summoning :)

BLARGAG!!!
25-03-2008, 18:10
how on gods green earth do you manage WS7 ghouls? if you can actually do that....... put it this way, im scared

BLARGAG!!!

Delmont
25-03-2008, 18:47
Yes you can, vampire lord with helm of command can grant his weapon skill to any undead unit so long as he is not engaged.

advinius
25-03-2008, 19:06
I don't have my book with me, but isn't the helm only able to lend the wearer's WS to one unit a turn?

I'm beefing up the number of ghouls in my list. They are fun! Wolves to flank, a unit of GG to form a center around, some fell bats, a vargulf or two.

good times.

Delmont
25-03-2008, 22:51
yes it is, but that is how you can get ws 7 ghouls.

dzungia
26-03-2008, 09:29
Against heavy shooting, ghouls are way better than our other core options. T4 is what counts against a Hellblaster or an Organ Gun. Skeletons do not take armor saves against such attacks.

If a Vampire Army has a caster lord, he has to be out of combat anyway. So, helm will be enabled.

For the last week, I have been painting and converting 4 ghouls per day, to be able to keep summoning... :)