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rcm2216
24-03-2008, 17:56
Wych Cult or Kabal List

What are the pros and cons of each list type?



How are the list used differently?



Who usually carries the WWP in each list?



Which do you take?

TheKiiier
24-03-2008, 19:43
Wych Cult or Kabal List

What are the pros and cons of each list type?

Don't have much experience to say for the Kabal and no experience with the Cult.


How are the list used differently?

The Cult and Kabal differ in play style in that the former is more a cc based force with the normally elite wytches used as troops and shuffle others around to limit it's role to focus heavily on cc with the latter more open to a shooty style and more adaptable to battle field situations as needed with some decent cc.

Who usually carries the WWP in each list?

In Kabal it seems the consensus is to put it on something fast like a jetbike rider to get it where it needs to be as soon as possible. In Cult lists I get the impression that no one uses them (maybe not allowed?) but just mounts up on everything possible in raiders for cc distance eating speed.

Which do you take?

I'm building a Kabal army as it more fits my likes and play style of the army as a whole. I might at some time in the future decide to try a small scale Cult army to change up the challenge.

Asentaja
24-03-2008, 20:10
I think that Kabal is a bit harder to play than Cult, but Cult is easier to counter.

In both lists a Haemonculus carries WWP, if there is one (although imo WWP is necessary in Cults and very usefull in Kabals, so it's rare not to have one).

I myself play Kabal, because I like to have a balance between shooting and assault, not just a one trick pony.

wolfbyte2586
24-03-2008, 20:29
Wych Cult or Kabal List
Who usually carries the WWP in each list?

In Kabal it seems the consensus is to put it on something fast like a jetbike rider to get it where it needs to be as soon as possible. In Cult lists I get the impression that no one uses them (maybe not allowed?) but just mounts up on everything possible in raiders for cc distance eating speed.


First, WWP can not be carried by a Jetbike rider. Second, Cult lists do use them fairly often, probably just as often as kabal lists. It's a matter of play-style preference.



In both lists a Haemonculus carries WWP, if there is one (although imo WWP is necessary in Cults and very usefull in Kabals, so it's rare not to have one).


Cult lists cant take Haemonculi.



What I've seen from browsing this and other forums is that in Kabal the two most common WWP carriors are Sybarites in Warrior squads or Haemonculi. With the warrior squads you either mount them in a Raider, fly it forward somewhere (either out of LoS or in a position of reduced incoming fire) disembark, then drop portal the following turn (anywhere from turn 1-3 depending on strategy an battlefield conditions), OR you take a big footslog squad, advance, fleet, deploy, relying on LoS blocking and large squad size to keep the Sybarite alive. The haemonculus is typically used similarly, but relies on IC status to stay alive and deliver the portal. He hides behind an advancing Warrior squad, then drops portal where useful, or Flys up in a Raider, disembarks behind it so it is closer to the enemy than he is, and if it gets shot blocks LoS, then drops portal. Alternately he can foot slog up, then have an empty raider fly up in front of him and leave the Raider squad sitting somewhere (probably with a Dark Lance in the squad) to try and shoot down incoming vehicles similar to Sniper squad use.

All the other Kabal options are Lords (where spending 25 points on a WWP cuts into his killy upgrades and isnt really worth it when you can use a Haemi), and Wych squad Succubi, which should be in the WWP so sort of defeats the purpose, and thats it. Mandrakes and grotesques have no unit leader to take a WWP, Jetbikes cant take them (as noted in WWP description), Hellions cant take them again as noted in WWP description (and arent worth taking in a competitive list even if they could), Scourge can't take them for same reasons (and are arguably not worth taking even if they could), and Talos cant take wargear.

Cult on the other hand will use the Raider squads as above for WWP, or will use them on Lords, as those are the only real options if you want your Wyches in WWP (which if you're taking a WWP, you do).

However, as noted above, a common tactic is the "Raider Rush", where you just flood the board with Raider Squads, Incubi retinues in Raiders, and Wych squads in Raiders and just rely on numbers to get your Wyches/Incubi into CC. This tactic really relies on the idea that you don't have to disclose whats in your transports, since if the opponent knows which transports are carrying Wyches and Incubi, theyll make those higher priority than the Warrior squads. In a friendly game with full disclosure you'll have a harder time keeping your CC units alive with the Raider Rush strategy.

Pros for Kabal:
Access to everything in the codex, including Incubi, Haemonculi, Grotesques, and Talos, and most of the Special Characters.
Wyches will deploy later in the deployment schedule, allowing you to better place them and counter the enemy.

Cons for Kabal:
Only allowed 3 Wych squads if you really like Wyches (4 if you take an Archon and a Dracite with Wych retinue).
Warriors deploy earlier, so less knowledge of enemy deployment to counter Terminators and transports (since Tanks will typically deploy before your Troops anyway).

Pros for Cult:
MORE WYCHES!!!!
Later deployment of Warriors, so better able to counter enemy Armor and 2+ save models.

Cons for Cult:
Earlier deployment of Wyches, harder to counter infantry formations.
Lose access to Grotesques, Haemonculi, Talos, most of the Special Characters in the book (since they have to lead a Kabal, or be part of an Incubi retinue).

As to how the lists are used differently, its the same way any codex uses different army builds differently: it depends entirely on the player. I've heard of DE lists used well that were built to capture as many slaves as possible. Ive seen gunline DE lists that do fairly well. Ive seen and played lists that max out on as many Lance weapons as possible (Dark Lances AND Blasters). Ive seen and played lists that max out on Wyches to dominate CC. Ive also personally tried an "All jetbike" list (didnt do terribly well since i could take only 3 squads of jetbikes and a couple ICs on jetbikes, and i was horrible as a general at that point).

You just have to pick an aspect of the list you like and go for it. DE can be very shooty, very assaulty, very tricky, very fun, very competitive, and definately are very rare.

As for me personally, i currently take a Kabal list with Incubi, Wyches and Raider squads with some Ravager support. I'm considering revisiting the Jetbike list for fun, and when 5th ed comes out im prepping some Scourge squads with Lances since rumor is that they count as Mobile Firing Platforms in the new edition.

Isambard
24-03-2008, 20:44
The single greatest asset of the Dark Eldar list is the number of raiders you can take. 55 pts for a BS4 Dark Lance on a fast skimmer makes Eldar Vypers cry like babies (really, I am envious of Raiders).

The Kabal list, with lots of raider squads and a few other units is very cool looking and very potent.

catbarf
24-03-2008, 21:25
The Wych list is amazingly powerful.

syntax234
24-03-2008, 21:45
i don't play DE, but a friend does and its always much harder to beat when he plays his kabal list

rcm2216
25-03-2008, 01:12
Is their anymore advice for a new player to the Dark Eldar.

Captain Uriel
25-03-2008, 01:24
Is their anymore advice for a new player to the Dark Eldar..

charge!
And find a way to get the white dwark with the article on the Dark Eldar, specifically *searches through massive pile of white dwarfs violently* Issue number 309 pgs 96 to103. Hope this helps. Oh, and there is also a part of this on the GW website but I think it is only to pruchase what is necesarry to convert the models.

The_Outsider
25-03-2008, 03:01
Is their anymore advice for a new player to the Dark Eldar.

If anyone says wych/kabal/WWP/Raider armada is superior to any of the others you know they are lying.