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Chaplain of Chaos
24-03-2008, 23:23
Honestly of all the Legions of Astares the book by McNeill left me unsurprised. The way the Legion was portrayed in that book seemed to very easily demonstrate that the flaws of the legion (arrogance and vanity) made them particularly vulnerable to the draw of chaos. All the marines that most obviously embodied the Childrens quests for perfection fell the fastest and the hardest. Solomon Demeter and Saul Taurvits all saw perfection more as a never ending quest and ideal than something that was actually attainable. In general they where just much more sensible individuals.

Fulgrim himself demonsrated again that the only thing truly impressive about the Primarch was their great strength and combat ability, Fulgrims very pride in his own supposed perfection was the perfect chink for the Demon to exploit.

I guess I find it easist to accept Fulgrims betrayal than Horus' as well. The conversation of Horus always seemed very slapdash, he was presented as such a noble individual and in the course of one ceremony he becomes a traitor and brutal tyrant.

I actually enjoyed the novel quite a bit, I am familiar with the old fluff about Fulgrim's desire for perfection causing him to turn to chaos on his own. Yet it still works that way considering it was his desire for perfection and fear of failure that allowed the demon to dominate him so fully anyways.

Now I just want a more indepth look into way some of the other Primarchs betrayed their Father. (Except for Angron, Angron and Lorgar, they both need little explanation.)

Drakon
24-03-2008, 23:32
i felt that for a primarch fulgrim was a the biggest b*t*h so far described in all the HH books.

Possessed by a sword and then succumbing to be taken over by the deamon, come on. Isnt he the one who kills more primarchs than any other traitor primarch. I thought he killed more than just ferrus manus. Or is that later on????

Gussy
24-03-2008, 23:40
Actually, the Horus' turning was more unbelievable. Especially since he was already warned about it twice...once after he got wounded and the other by Magnus the Red during his wounded dream.

Drakon
24-03-2008, 23:46
Horus was more manupilated by Erubus and Abaddon than turned. He just saw the power that he could achieve from succombing to chaos and decided to use it as a tool.

What i dont get about fulgrim is that its like he doesnt know anything about the temptations of chaos yet when loken first encountered a warp beast Horus already knows what it was and explains to loken about it.

Wouldnt fulgrim know the same stuff and have know what the Laer were up too???

Skirnak
24-03-2008, 23:52
i felt that for a primarch fulgrim was a the biggest b*t*h so far described in all the HH books.

Possessed by a sword and then succumbing to be taken over by the deamon, come on. Isnt he the one who kills more primarchs than any other traitor primarch. I thought he killed more than just ferrus manus. Or is that later on????

Off the top of my head I know that Fulgrim kills Roboute Guilleman, but that's obviously after the Horus Heresy.

I can't remember the Fulgrim novel particularly well, but do we really get to know him before the daemon starts exploiting his faults? I'd suggest that's more to do with why he's portrayed so negatively, rather than being an inferior primarch.

Vult
24-03-2008, 23:59
Fulgrim also kills Robute.

One of the other things I was wondering is if each of the primarchs/legions will be getting their own book in this series. I seriously hope so. I really want to know that disposition of each of the primarchs and their legions before, during and after the Heresy. I really thought this was what they were going to do with the release of Decent of Angels and then Legion. But then who is Battle for the Abyss about? (Ultramarines? or Word Bearers?) Then in the book after that Horus is already to Mars?

I just hope they give each their own book, just to know what is going on all over the galaxy at that time.

And then on an even more hopeful note, I hope they continue the books AFTER the Heresy to show what happens to some of the primarchs when they are killed/disappear or become daemon princes.

Inquisitor Feldenhaus
25-03-2008, 00:32
Vult-I was thinking Mechanicus would be like the others...in a sense, following several events before turning, and then at the end, having the betrayal, or at least Horus's appearance. And about the after heresy, I would like that, I always thought the BL should do an Age of Apostasy series, I think it would be extremely interesting, and give the SoB some more notoriety, although that may just be because SoB/Witch Hunters are my favorite army...

Chaplain of Chaos
25-03-2008, 00:34
I'm also confused why so many people think Sault Tarvits is dead... the author wouldn't hint at a subterranean hanger then just have nothing come of it.

I would really like to hear more about some of the well known loyalist primarchs too. Some first hand accoutns from Rogal Dorn, Sanguinous and Guillimon

Yeah I have high hopes for Mechanicum.

Drakon
25-03-2008, 01:13
I'm also confused why so many people think Sault Tarvits is dead... the author wouldn't hint at a subterranean hanger then just have nothing come of it.

I would really like to hear more about some of the well known loyalist primarchs too. Some first hand accoutns from Rogal Dorn, Sanguinous and Guillimon

Yeah I have high hopes for Mechanicum.

Saul is dead is ancient rylanor that was in the vault. Although im hoping saul did make it down there so he can meet up with lucius and kick his ****. But i doubt that too.

Im too want them to explain all the legions, dam thats a lot of books, especially the fall of magnus and the battle between them and the wolves.

Go the wolves... for russ... for the emporer

Vult
25-03-2008, 02:31
It just seems unfair to tell this story from so few angles. I mean the only way to grasp the scope of what happened is to see it through the eyes of as many people as possible who were directly effected by the actions of those who caused the heresy or those who fought against it.

I mean you even get a SMALL glimpse at the Eldar perspective! They could do a book that goes through some of the other races parts in this whole thing. Who knows what roll the Eldar played behind the scenes.

And if the battle for the Emperor's palace is not at least 2 books then there is no way they could do it justice. I think it should be 3, one book for the landings, one book for the siege and then another for the Emperor's assault on Horus's ship, and the final conflict between Horus, Sanguinius and the Emperor!

Oh yea...and I want to read chapters upon chapter about how Sanguinius kicks bloodthirster ass!

Chaplain of Chaos
25-03-2008, 02:39
My point was that they wouldn't hint at that damned secret hanger in two books and not do something with it.

They even had the two villians (Lucious and Eidolon) snickering over how nobody could have possibly survived that bombardment.

We didn't see the body, and an escape route was mentioned. By any epic fantasy/science fiction standard Saul MUST have escaped.

Imperialis_Dominatus
25-03-2008, 05:36
Fulgrim also kills Robute.

Sticks him in stasis, but meh.


Oh yea...and I want to read chapters upon chapter about how Sanguinius kicks bloodthirster ass!

Brilliant proposition! Let's see some red ass get kicked, and I don't mean no baboons!

nedsta
25-03-2008, 08:01
ooooo *considers possibility of nice shiny book on the cleansing of prospero* maybe soon it might happen,i could do with laughing at some 1k sons :D

Drakon
25-03-2008, 20:35
ooooo *considers possibility of nice shiny book on the cleansing of prospero* maybe soon it might happen,i could do with laughing at some 1k sons :D

Im hoping so but doesnt look like its happening this year :(

Tapio
25-03-2008, 21:10
The one book I myself would like to see most would be about Rogal Dorns and Perturabos EPIC showdown at Sevastus IV.

Gussy
25-03-2008, 21:26
Fulgrim is portrayed "negatively" only after he kills Manus. At that time he was already being possessed by the demon and has no control of his actions.

God-Splitter
26-03-2008, 00:57
Honestly of all the Legions of Astares the book by McNeill left me unsurprised. The way the Legion was portrayed in that book seemed to very easily demonstrate that the flaws of the legion (arrogance and vanity) made them particularly vulnerable to the draw of chaos. All the marines that most obviously embodied the Childrens quests for perfection fell the fastest and the hardest. Solomon Demeter and Saul Taurvits all saw perfection more as a never ending quest and ideal than something that was actually attainable. In general they where just much more sensible individuals.

Fulgrim himself demonsrated again that the only thing truly impressive about the Primarch was their great strength and combat ability, Fulgrims very pride in his own supposed perfection was the perfect chink for the Demon to exploit.

I guess I find it easist to accept Fulgrims betrayal than Horus' as well. The conversation of Horus always seemed very slapdash, he was presented as such a noble individual and in the course of one ceremony he becomes a traitor and brutal tyrant.

I actually enjoyed the novel quite a bit, I am familiar with the old fluff about Fulgrim's desire for perfection causing him to turn to chaos on his own. Yet it still works that way considering it was his desire for perfection and fear of failure that allowed the demon to dominate him so fully anyways.

Now I just want a more indepth look into way some of the other Primarchs betrayed their Father. (Except for Angron, Angron and Lorgar, they both need little explanation.)

Except for Angron, Angron?

Imperialis_Dominatus
26-03-2008, 03:09
Except for Angron, Angron?

Try saying the sentence out loud, it makes more sense.

Koryphaus
26-03-2008, 04:30
The one book I myself would like to see most would be about Rogal Dorns and Perturabos EPIC showdown at Sevastus IV.

The Iron Cage incident? I quite like the two different versions portrayed in the respective IA articles. ie, from the IW perspective, the IF tried to defeat them and failed, but from the IF viewpoint, Dorn was purging his legion of those who wouldn't stand for it to be broken up. Interesting little ideas...

Tapio
26-03-2008, 06:07
The Iron Cage incident? I quite like the two different versions portrayed in the respective IA articles. ie, from the IW perspective, the IF tried to defeat them and failed, but from the IF viewpoint, Dorn was purging his legion of those who wouldn't stand for it to be broken up. Interesting little ideas...

Yeah. I think it would be the perfect chance to show the difference in the two Primarchs ideals and ways of thinking.