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syntax234
25-03-2008, 00:55
Does anybody here play a traitor guard army? I have the IG battleforce and some chaos bits so I can certainly make one if I want. The problem is they (probably) aren't tourny legal, at least with daemons, and the super fluff guys at my store would pounce on me like wolverines on peanut butter, though I kind of like the idea of a traitor guard army.

If you have a traitor guard army, are there any special rules? Or should I just take things from the IG and CSM codexes? Also, can I field a Chaos sorcerer or Aspiring Champion as an HQ, or do I have to stick with a commissar?

MrLiy
25-03-2008, 01:17
well as a long time guard player

You have three options

1. add chaos units to your apocalypse army
2. Try running a lost and the damned army list (these guys play very differently from regular IG)
3. Model however you want but still run a codex list. In my opinion as long the model holds a grenade launcher it counts even if it has spiky bitz!

505
25-03-2008, 01:27
you could even give your army a subtle hint of Tzeenich colors as if they just turned then you can go either way

Captain Uriel
25-03-2008, 01:29
Traitor, so much fun for convertion and story. Also you could have a Chaos Marine fraction leading it for fluff. It would be awesome.

sigur
25-03-2008, 01:40
I'd say go for traitor guard. Sounds much more interesting than another bunch of cadians hurled and whatever will kill them.

I have no idea why the fluff guys at your place would tear you apart if you did it.

You have two options for your traitor guard army:
.) the lost and the damned list. (very problematic for many reasons)
.) use the IG codex with Witch Hunters allies. That gives you quite a lot more room to toy with. Stay clear of using SoB and faith points though.

Colonel Avain
25-03-2008, 04:06
its actually easy to field a imperial traitor army. simply use the imperial guard codex, but choose from a set of doctrines, and model them. thats how the blood pact were made, they used imperial guard rules but with a set of doctrines that showed how aggressive they are. you can then make any story you want from them.

or you could use a leagion of the damned army if you want.

Pitalla Crimson
25-03-2008, 04:24
Traitor army its very fun to play, you could have some rouge marines leading it like Alpha Legion or Red Corsairs.

Tought I am not sure if Lost and the dammed its currently legal.:confused:

505
25-03-2008, 04:24
I'd say go for traitor guard. Sounds much more interesting than another bunch of cadians hurled and whatever will kill them.

I have no idea why the fluff guys at your place would tear you apart if you did it.

You have two options for your traitor guard army:
.) the lost and the damned list. (very problematic for many reasons)
.) use the IG codex with Witch Hunters allies. That gives you quite a lot more room to toy with. Stay clear of using SoB and faith points though.

or DH allies and make the models the chaos of your choice....make sure you tell your oponent theat they are grey knights

Sceleris
25-03-2008, 13:28
I use doctrined IG (indep commissars, ogryn, concripts, rough riders) with WH allies.

Alternatively use the Seige of Vraks list in IA5 from Forgeworld (and they have some very nice traitor models)

Grand Warlord
25-03-2008, 14:33
I picked loyalist guard, but in all honesty, i haven't seen any gaurd players in my area i would enjoy seeing either/or.

AdmiralDick
25-03-2008, 14:47
i'm not quite sure what a Tzeentchen theme's guard army will have (although i'm sure it be horrifically mutated and beltch great gouts of flames), never the less the more Chaos the better in my mind!

(personally i want a Khorne Traitor Guard Legion that stand a shoot in an attempt to cause the most bodily damage that is possible. Blood for the Blood God!)

Rirekon
25-03-2008, 15:07
Tzeentch Doctrines;
Cyber-Enhancement (represents the invulnerable save all Tzeentch worshippers get)
Sanctioned Psykers (obvious really)
Ogryn (mutants)

Plus 2 other, possibly Rough Riders and Veterans for more mutants.

Dinadan
25-03-2008, 15:22
Depends on how much you like converting/painting/etc.

I was actually thinking of doing something similar once my Thousand Sons army is up to a decent level.

Like Rirekon points out, use the Sanction Psyker doctrine to represent cultist magi/scorcerers/etc (and use various WH wizard models for these) and Ogryns to represent large mutants (you could mix Ogryn, Ogre, Minotaur, and Troll models for these). In addition, I'd suggest using the Conscripts doctrine to represent mutants/cultists, while normal guardsmen represent a guard regiment that has become corrupted over time. Using Warhammer Centigors (I think that that's what the centaur beastmen are called) could also work nicely.

Count de Monet
25-03-2008, 15:59
Either way would be good.

Straight up loyalist IG are fun.

Traitors are fun. Currently with the demise of the LatD list, probably best to follow the suggestions above with regard to using regular IG list/convert/add allies. An inquisitor should make a good cult leader. Centigors for rough riders would indeed be great.

Chaplain of Chaos
25-03-2008, 16:26
How bout a horde of guard all with the close combat weapons doctrine.

Blue Orphen
25-03-2008, 17:36
Well, if you don't mind never winning, then you can use the CCW doctrine. But, honestly, Guardsmen have no place in assault. The worst thing is, giving squads Warrior Weapons actually costs points too!

Instead, use Witch Hunter Zealots - the rules are in a WD Chapter Approved article - they are cheaper, come in mobs of 20, and you can have up to 5 Eviscerators in a 20-man squad. Lead them with a Priest with Eviscerator (Demagogue/Doomsayer/etc - Cult leader) and you will have a much better time.

TheBigBadWolf
25-03-2008, 22:16
Does anybody here play a traitor guard army? I have the IG battleforce and some chaos bits so I can certainly make one if I want. The problem is they (probably) aren't tourny legal, at least with daemons, and the super fluff guys at my store would pounce on me like wolverines on peanut butter, though I kind of like the idea of a traitor guard army.

If you have a traitor guard army, are there any special rules? Or should I just take things from the IG and CSM codexes? Also, can I field a Chaos sorcerer or Aspiring Champion as an HQ, or do I have to stick with a commissar?

Get your self a copie of the EoT book, the LoTD list is what you are looking for, if you arnt playing in tournaments then there is no problem playing in store or anywhere else

Malachai
25-03-2008, 22:48
I'm buidling my own traitor guard from 3th edition Cadian models using the old-style traitor "Lost and The Damned" colours.
I use redemptionist models as conscripts from the IG-codex. They are my workers rabble.
I have used the Imperial armour list a couple of times, but IG has more to offer and is completely legal. It's a lot of fun, but i'm still working on it. I have about 120 miniatures, 6 sentinels(3 heavy flamers and 3 with multilaser), 1 Hellhound, 1 Basilisk, 2 leman Russes.
My doctrines are: ratling snipers(infiltrators with +1 coversave), conscript platoons,hardenend fighters. can someone give me a hint what to take next?
another question, i have this "new" chaos terminator general model, still on sprue.
I would really like this guy to be the leader of my Traitors. Could i use him as an Inquisitor or something like that?

Lord Cook
25-03-2008, 23:07
Instead, use Witch Hunter Zealots

But as far as I can tell, they can only be used in WH armies. Not as allies in Imperial Guard armies.

Koryphaus
26-03-2008, 00:47
Hey all

Well I own a substantial IG army (got so sick of painting lasguns...). I can tell you that every once in a while I break out Codex EoT, and run them as traitors. After playing in the guard style, (fairly static, 10 men per squad etc) there is very little that beats using units of 15 guys led by aspiring champions to smash holes in enemy units:evilgrin:... So much fun! Plus you can have Spawn! And chaos marines! And...

syntax234
26-03-2008, 01:13
SOOOOO,

should I get the EoT codex? and if i should, can you provide a U.S. link to the book (my nearest store doesn't have it)?

Logarithm Udgaur
26-03-2008, 07:43
The GW site
http://us.games-workshop.com/games/40K/eyeofterror/default.htm
is no longer accessible:wtf:
Also, the book seems to be out of print, so your best bet is Amazon or Ebay.

As cool as the LAtD list is, it does not seem that GW is going to support it anymore.
BTW, the Blood Pact list originates in WD chapter approved (remember when WD was worth the cover price).

Sceleris
26-03-2008, 09:47
My doctrines are: ratling snipers(infiltrators with +1 coversave), conscript platoons,hardenend fighters. can someone give me a hint what to take next?
another question, i have this "new" chaos terminator general model, still on sprue.
I would really like this guy to be the leader of my Traitors. Could i use him as an Inquisitor or something like that?

Indep Commissars are nice, and will ensure that your conscript squads don't run away. Sharp shooters will give you some re-rolls, iron discipline give another Ld boost, taking veterans could give you some special weapons units.

Using the chaos lord terminator as an inquisitor will work, but you may have to use the DH codex as I'm not sure the WH Inq has the option of TDA.

One option I've been tempted with is to use a count-as Last Chancers for an HQ - a couple of interesting characters and a variety of specialist to go with them - could make quite a characterful unit in a traitor list.

Malachai
26-03-2008, 10:19
Indep Commissars are nice, and will ensure that your conscript squads don't run away. Sharp shooters will give you some re-rolls, iron discipline give another Ld boost, taking veterans could give you some special weapons units.

Using the chaos lord terminator as an inquisitor will work, but you may have to use the DH codex as I'm not sure the WH Inq has the option of TDA.

One option I've been tempted with is to use a count-as Last Chancers for an HQ - a couple of interesting characters and a variety of specialist to go with them - could make quite a characterful unit in a traitor list.


Thanx Cseleris!
The Last chancers option is exactly what i'm working on. It fits the Traitor-Theme very well. I wouldn't even have to take the Hardenend veterans option. I'll propably go for the Independent commissars.

EVIL INC
26-03-2008, 14:37
Tzeentch Doctrines;
Cyber-Enhancement (represents the invulnerable save all Tzeentch worshippers get)
Sanctioned Psykers (obvious really)
Ogryn (mutants)

Plus 2 other, possibly Rough Riders and Veterans for more mutants.
Sounds good. Actually, if you get thefantasy centaur models and convert gaurd torsod onto them with lances, they would look great. Methinks catachan torsos would be your best bet.

Armilthuan
26-03-2008, 15:03
Well, if you don't mind never winning, then you can use the CCW doctrine. But, honestly, Guardsmen have no place in assault. The worst thing is, giving squads Warrior Weapons actually costs points too!

If you can roll enough dice, something will get killed, orks are testimony for that.

I use Light infantry, Iron Discipline and Close Order Drill in my traitor gaurd army.

Light infantry makes sure there is hot action from turn 2 onwards, and I am close within Rapid Fire/Assualt range.

Iron discipline enhances the 'officer bubbles' greatly. Add in a banner and it will be hard to see your traitor gaurd running!

Close Order Drill. If you die before it's your chance to attack, then you obviously can't kill those smurfs standing right there. It's easy to get all your models within base contact of each other in Combat.

Cheers mate, for choosing traitor gaurd! Let the hunt begin!

Leftenant Gashrog
26-03-2008, 15:36
Get your self a copie of the EoT book, the LoTD list is what you are looking for, if you arnt playing in tournaments then there is no problem playing in store or anywhere else

Or better yet, download the relevant list for free from the GW site:
http://oz.games-workshop.com/games/40k/chaosspacemarines/gaming/lostandthedamned/default.htm

Blue Orphen
26-03-2008, 18:03
If you can roll enough dice, something will get killed, orks are testimony for that.

Well, there's difference between a squad of guard and a mob of orks. WS4 and T4 come to mind. Also, the most attacks you are going to get out of a guard squad with Warrior Weapons is 31 (10 base + 10 for 2 CCWs + 10 for charging + 1 for Vet Sgt), while a full strength mob puts out over 100. Nevermind the likelihood of a guard squad getting the charge while remaining full strength.

If Warrior Weapons was free, I'd say "whatever floats your boat". But it costs points while (arguably) reducing the usefulness of the unit.

Too bad LatD isn't tourney-legal anymore - who needs WW guard when you can have mobs of mutants!

E-Dog
26-03-2008, 18:07
Everybody knows bad guys are cooler than good guys. Nuff said.:evilgrin:

Playa
26-03-2008, 20:54
Hey,


can you provide a U.S. link

The Aussie link's good.

Here's an example 1500pt Vraks list:

+++

HQ 354pt
HQ1 = 1x1 Cmd Sqd: Champ +4 Vet = 64 (5 models)
HQ2 = 5x1 Enforcer, BPistol, PWeapon, Krak
Carapace, Bionic = 290

Elites 235pt
EL1 = 10x Infiltrating CSM, Champ, PFist, ACannon

Troops 788pt
TR1-4 = Cmd: Champ + 4 Vet, 5 Carapace = 89 +
2x8 Militia, 2xFGun = 108 [197]

Heavy 115pts
HS1 = 1x1 Basilisk

1492pt

+++

Enforcers are Renegade Comissars. They get distributed like Warlocks -
One for the IG HQ, and one for each Troops Unit to maintain Morale. ;- )

A 1500pt Hybrid of the EoT and Vraks lists might look like:

+++

HQ 280
HQ1-2 = 2x1 DPrince, Wings, DBolt = 140

Elites 561pt
EL1 = 6x1 Enforcer, BPistol, PWeapon, Carapace, Bionic = 326
EL2 = 10x Infiltrating CSM, Champ, PFist, ACannon = 235

Troops 540pt
TR1-6 = 6x14 Vraks PDF, 6x FGun = 540

Heavy 115pts
HS1 = 1x1 Basilisk


1496pts

+++

This list only deviates by bringing back CSM HQ options.
But, that requires bumping Enforcers to Elites to compensate.
The list also ignores the requirement for Platoon Cmd Squads.
The CSM are clearly in command of this outfit via their Enforcers.

HTH


Playa

Chem-Dog
26-03-2008, 21:34
Traitor Guard is a fun project although I never got much further than a couple of models to pass time.

Just how corrupted a "traitor" guard regiment is IS entirely up to you, it could be as simple as a philisophical difference of opinion or outright Daemon loving, all down to how adventurous you feel.
One thing I would suggest is take Sanctioned Psykers, they may be pants, but it's a nod to Tzeench's sorcerous side. And a properly tooled Psyker with Honourifica Imperialis and Force Weapon has real potential and you can feasably stick him in a squad of 10 men to give him a vague chance of surviving long enough to hit something.

syntax234
26-03-2008, 22:12
I've decided to go with a traitor guard army. I already have a chaos sorcerer, so i will be in the clear with an HQ, and thanks to Leftenant Gashrog for the link.

Captin Korea!
26-03-2008, 22:31
There is the IA:5 Renegade list that may be helpful for chaos ig rules.

victorpofa
27-03-2008, 00:28
Centigors might make nice Rough Riders for your traitors as already mentioned. I am now thinking about doing that myself :evilgrin:

Are the Centigors metal?

decker_cky
27-03-2008, 00:33
Yes. It's pretty easy to make conversions of them with Gors though. So it shouldn't be too hard to make plastic 40k'd up centigors.

Another way to include traitor guard would be to use daemonhunter allies to get in some daemonhosts, which would work well.

Is there any way to get space marines and imperial guard in the same list?

Colonel Stagler
27-03-2008, 01:12
Take the Vraks list mate, its fluffy and less people will complain than if your using a defunct eot dex.
Stagler Out

Lord Cook
27-03-2008, 01:42
Take the Vraks list mate, its fluffy and less people will complain than if your using a defunct eot dex.

And don't forget it has salamanders! Woo!

syntax234
27-03-2008, 22:49
Take the Vraks list mate, its fluffy and less people will complain than if your using a defunct eot dex.
Stagler Out

what book is the vraks list in?

Slaaneshi Slave
27-03-2008, 22:51
Imperial Armour 5, Siege of Vraks.

syntax234
28-03-2008, 01:44
Imperial Armour 5, Siege of Vraks.

wow. I am on a budget, so I think I am just going to stay with that LatD list from the EoT codex

Lord Cook
28-03-2008, 01:49
wow. I am on a budget, so I think I am just going to stay with that LatD list from the EoT codex

I know it's expensive, but if IA5 isn't for you then I really recommend just using the IG codex and adapting your army to fit. The EoT codex is so old that it's hopelessly out of date, and it's pretty clear it won't be getting any support from GW in the future. Not to mention the fact that it uses the old chaos codex, which is now completely obsolete.

syntax234
28-03-2008, 03:14
I know it's expensive, but if IA5 isn't for you then I really recommend just using the IG codex and adapting your army to fit. The EoT codex is so old that it's hopelessly out of date, and it's pretty clear it won't be getting any support from GW in the future. Not to mention the fact that it uses the old chaos codex, which is now completely obsolete.

yes, I would just use the IG codex (no CSM's) for tourneys and formal shop games, but I like the EoT LatD list because it gives a good basis for troop organization and other outlines. plus its free.

Malachai
28-03-2008, 10:35
Yesterday i played my Traitors using the imperial guard codex the first time. It works fine. Ratling-traitor-snipers are great. They killed a lot of praetorain rough riders and some Inquisitional stormtroopers.
I think IA-5 has one problem, it allows the use of 2 tanks only. I think that sucks(for Guard).Usually i don't care to much for heavy support, using space marines. But when i play Traitor Guard i sure like my tanks.

Armilthuan
28-03-2008, 11:41
Well, there's difference between a squad of guard and a mob of orks. WS4 and T4 come to mind. Also, the most attacks you are going to get out of a guard squad with Warrior Weapons is 31 (10 base + 10 for 2 CCWs + 10 for charging + 1 for Vet Sgt), while a full strength mob puts out over 100. Nevermind the likelihood of a guard squad getting the charge while remaining full strength.

If Warrior Weapons was free, I'd say "whatever floats your boat". But it costs points while (arguably) reducing the usefulness of the unit.

Too bad LatD isn't tourney-legal anymore - who needs WW guard when you can have mobs of mutants!

True, but I never said that gaurdsmen would be better than Orks in combat. I play my list for fun ( why else would you play CC gaurd?) and I've had my fair share of victories against Tau, Space Marines, Loyal Gaurd and yes, I have even defeated Tyranids in CC.

Somehow though, Tau always seem to whack my face in CC... :eyebrows: