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The Phoenix
19-04-2005, 11:29
Tomb Kings specifically, but I assume it applies to Vamps as well.

Undead can't march. Tomb Swarms count as skirmishers and a lone character is, well, a lone character. Normally both of these would be able to move at double pace, but not be considered marching. Does the undead rule stop lone characters and undead skirmishers from moving at double pace? I'd assume that is the intention, but I'm not sure :confused:

-Phoenix

Festus
19-04-2005, 12:24
There is no double pace anymore.
Undead cannot march. Period. Vampires allow certain units to march (usually within 12" of the General and Characters and Single Models.

Greetings
Festus

Sylass
19-04-2005, 12:31
In case you need a quote for the TK part of the answer:

Q: Can TK single characters and skirmishers move at double M value ?
A: No. The only case when it is possible for a Tomb Kings unit to move at double speed is when charging.
As Festus said, VC have a few exceptions listed in the armybook (e.g. Banshee and lone characters).

Elyas
20-04-2005, 01:16
From the VC army book: "undead units/characters can't march unless they begin their movement phase within 12" of the general. If they do, they can march during that movement phase and all standard rules for marching do apply". This means that even lone characters need to be near the general to march, and I'm assuming the same rules apply to TK.

The Phoenix
20-04-2005, 01:18
No, tomb kings can't march, no matter how close they are to the general

Elyas
20-04-2005, 03:46
Well that sux...no wonder they have so much cav :rolleyes:

samael
20-04-2005, 08:17
From the VC army book: "undead units/characters can't march unless they begin their movement phase within 12" of the general. If they do, they can march during that movement phase and all standard rules for marching do apply". This means that even lone characters need to be near the general to march.

NO

Taken from dire wolf, the question there regarded a banshee but the answer involves all VC characters:

Q. Can a Banshee always move up to 12 inches?

A. Yes. The answer is based on the following:

1) The Banshee has a special rule called "Single Model"
which indicates that she is treated as a character on foot
for movement and when targeted by missiles.

2) The Laws of Undeath for the Vampire Counts army indicate
that a character on foot may always make march moves.

3) The Unit Strength and Single Model's Movement chart in
Warhammer Chronicles 2003 indicates that single roughly
man sized models on foot move "As Skirmishers". Regarding
movement, units which move "As Skirmishers" have no need to
turn or wheel, can pivot on the spot with no penalty, and have a
360 degree arc of sight for charges, etc. They do not incur
penalties for difficult terrain/obstacles, and can march even
if within 8" of enemies at the beginning of the turn.
S. Vampire Counts Army Book pages 25, 28 /
Warhammer Chronicles 2004 page 114

Elyas
20-04-2005, 22:14
I understand that the Banshee is treated as a single model, but read the VC book carefully and you'll see that it says "undead units/characters". I think maybe you mean to say that skirmishers can make a double move (that doesn't count as a march) which is why undead characters can make a move as if marching?

samael
21-04-2005, 17:37
Ok, straight from the horses mouth (ie the VC book), the laws of undeath, under marching, first sentence.

"undead cannot make a march move unless they are characters or are within 12' of the general at the start of their movement phase.

(if this is illegal usage of GW property, I'm so sorry, if someone wants to write it down in another way please do)

I see no point of discussion here regarding the marching of characters, they can.

@ Elyas
It does make me wonder where you found your sentence though?

Festus
21-04-2005, 17:52
Hi

Samael is of course right: VC characters and the Banshee can march.

Greetings
Festus

EvC
21-04-2005, 18:14
That's what I thought as well. Complimentary question: can the banshee scream after "marching" too?

(Banshees are so good, I just got one in my army, and I don't know how I survived without one until now. In my first 500 point game I played with her she killed a Skaven Warlock and an entire unit of night runners. Then on the next table the other guy's banshee wiped out an entire unit of centigors with one scream. Ha!)

samael
21-04-2005, 18:58
That's what I thought as well. Complimentary question: can the banshee scream after "marching" too?



Yes.

They can also scream after declaring charges and even while in combat, but in the last case only against the unit she is fighting

Elyas
21-04-2005, 21:07
@ Elyas
It does make me wonder where you found your sentence though?

I guess I have the old edition of the book. It's really not mine, but a friend lent it to me a while back and forgot about it, so I still have it. Or maybe the sentence was changed in an update? *shrugs*

Moi
02-05-2005, 07:06
Too sleepy to go check again, but it's in the current VC book under the Banshee description in the beginning of the book.

super_steve
02-05-2005, 21:10
If you have a charecter leading a unit could this unit then charge ?

steve

Festus
02-05-2005, 21:34
???

A unit can nearly always charge, leader or not.

What do you mean?

Greetings
Festus

super_steve
03-05-2005, 00:55
i mean can a undead unit march if a charecter is in it. for example a unit of skellies with a vampire thrall in it over 12" away from general.
me thinks you didnt read the topic title.

steve

mageith
03-05-2005, 04:43
i mean can a undead unit march if a charecter is in it. for example a unit of skellies with a vampire thrall in it over 12" away from general.
me thinks you didnt read the topic title.

steve


"If a character forms part of a unit of troops then the unit as a whole dictates his maximum movement." (96)

Moi
03-05-2005, 05:00
No, it can't march as it is more than 12 inches away from the general. That's the bottom line. Keep you general near those units you want to march with. The only exception to this are the Alive! units (ghouls and bat swarms, but the latest is already a flying unit with a flying distance of 10 inches, so no march for them anyway...).

Jedi152
04-05-2005, 10:34
Can undead actually charge? (charge, not march) I don't recall it saying anywhere in the laws of undeath.

As charging is different to marching, can they? ... or do they have to move into combat using their basic M statistic?

Sylass
04-05-2005, 10:39
Of course they can charge. Without charging (or a special rule like Chaos Spawns got) there's no way to get in combat.

-> If they couldn't charge they'd need a special rule saying that they can just "move in contact" to get into combat.


That said, the 'Laws of Undead' only cover things that work different than with normal (non-undead) units...