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Mercules
25-03-2008, 19:41
Tyrant(Gen) @ 306
-HvA -The Tenderizer -Gut Maw -Wyrdstone Necklace

Butcher @ 180
-Dispel Scroll -Halfling Cookbook

Butcher @ 175
-Bloodcleaver -Skullmantle

Butcher @ 155
-Bangstick

3 Bullsx3 @ 130
-Musician -IronFists

Irongutsx3 @144

2 Gnoblar Fightersx20 @ 40

2 Yheteesx3 @ 195

Maneater @ 90
-HvA -GW

Maneater @ 90
-HvA -BoH

2000/2000 64 models in all Casting=8 Dispel=5

Tactics:

I am planning on putting the GW Maneater with my Tyrant and using them as a hard hitting unit with good killing ability. The Maneater helps my Tyrant from getting run down because of the Stubborness and we are talking 9 Str 7 attacks on a decently small frontage(for OK).

The BoH Maneater is an escort for my Skullmantle Butcher. Their goal is to deal with singular threats like characters out of units, weapon teams, and in general cause trouble as they move forward/about. They are US 6 so hopefully maneuver them into a flank and charge to help out another unit.

The Tyrant has the Gut Maw(which most people don't like) because I intend to challenge every chance I get to maximize the Tenderizer and overkill.

I know the IF is more expensive than an xtra-HW but I like the look better. Lots of Bulls for fluff and I like them. 2 Gnoblars for table quarter holders or bait&flee units.

Yhetees, a lot of people don't like them. They are a bit expensive but their move and Str can be handy and they are great for things with Ward saves that are negated by magic, Demons and Trees. They also are a great flanking unit and help me out there and for Mage/Warmachine hunting.

Lots of Butchers as I love Gutmagic.

Sterling
25-03-2008, 20:02
problems: Not many, but a few...

Wyrdstone necklace without a Luck gnoblar.

Heavy Armor and Light Armor on the same model (HvA and Gut Maw)

Bloodcleaver (weapon that has the same game-effect as a spell he will definitely have? not for 25 points, especially when I don't see Seigebreaker anywhere)

Fighters instead of Trappers...

Short on Scrolls. (I like 3, but I know there are some areas that frown on multiple scrolls or stones, especially in some tourneys you can take a comp hit for it.)

Lots of Bulls instead of Ironguts... but you did bring the butchers and have good strength from the GW maneater and Tenderizer, so I can see you pulling some solid victories against low T armies. If your area has lots of Rat, lizard or elven meat around, I wouldn't change much. Chaos, other ogres, dwarves and armored hummies need more great weapons.

Mercules
25-03-2008, 20:27
Gut Maw is NOT light armor it is a magical Gut Plate. Bulls without Light Armor still have Gut Plates so Gut Plates are not Light Armor.

Spell does me no good if they can dispel everything I throw and that Butcher will very likely be in close combat despite any desires I have(I've used it to good effect although I could swap it for Siegebreaker if I scrounge points for the Luck Gnoblar.)

I'd like the Luck Gnoblar, might have to scrounge points.

I like Gnoblar Fighters, cheaper than Trappers, work about the same.

I hate Scrolls, I understand why people take them and use them, but I dislike taking too many. I -should- have enough Dispel dice again normal lists, magic heavy lists will have me if I don't get into combat right away.

Common armies where I play.
Empire Gunline(no Steam Tank and every spell is the bound type or Prayers)
Skaven
TK
VC
HE
WE(with real Elves)
HoC
O&G
Bret(the Brets will hurt so that will have to be careful play.)

Sterling
25-03-2008, 22:26
well, I think your army will do fine, provided the Chaos player plays heavy beast and the O&G player stresses the "G" part of the army... I wouldn't voluntarily play TK without 3 scrolls and Gorgers, though. The couple TK armies I have faced either love the catapaults firing twice per turn with a Casket or rediculous chariot armies that *always* get the darn charge, no matter how well I bait them.

one trick vs TK chariots is to use single-model bait. remember that if you don't flee, the chariots have to align to your model. Angle them so that if they overrun, they go into terrain and if they don't, they get bulls or better, a great weapon in the flank.

riven5
25-03-2008, 22:28
I really like this list, it's different from the "cookie-cutter" OK builds without being too out there.

Some suggestions:

The Bulls should probably be using XHWs. I know you said you prefer the look of Ironfists, but unless where you play is WYSIWYG you can get away with having them on the models AND enjoying an extra attack from each Bull. And it's cheaper!

Gnoblar Trappers are phenomenal. They will generally serve the same purpose as your fighters, but are skirmishers so can absorb shooting. Armies such as Empire, WE and Skaven will quickly teach you how valuable those lil' guys can be. Being scouts they will be able to deploy way away from your front line while still sucking up gunfire for a turn (or two!). That means you don't need to fear animosity rolls going bad and hindering your forward movement for a while as your Ogres make up the distance.

Mercules
26-03-2008, 03:15
I regularly take on Skaven as he is the most active player next to the O&G player. He is the whole reason for having some range that isn't linked to magic. Expanding to 2.25k will likely mean putting a Scraplauncher in there to deal with him since it moves and shoots a template that is damaging against large low toughness units.

While I like Trappers they are more expensive by 8 points for 12 less models/wounds. They are skirmishing scouts which can be nice, but in an emergency I can charge in a unit of 20 Gnoblars after getting an ogre unit into combat and they end up being able to only nick the unit in the front because of the Ogres wide frontage. Then the Gnoblars add a rank bonus while only accepting the attacks from one model. I don't use them as a screen, they are too slow for that.

The Chaos player is a Chaos Lord on a Dragon style player. He will get the charge, but I have a feeling my Tyrant can swat him off the back of that dragon and then he and Maneater can finish it off... if I survive that charge. I believe I can beat him as he tends to still have the "bigger is better" syndrom going on.

O&G has Big'uns but lacks warmachines. Last battle was a draw but I see a couple things he is doing I can counter with this new list.

TK player worries me. I haven't faced him yet. I have a feeling terrain will play a big part of that game. I don't want to tailor my lists to my opponent though. Skull catapults worry me with my LD.

Yhetees were key against the Dwarves for me the last time I played them, going around the flank on terrain and using that fast move to get to the Warmachines while I distracted him up front. They then calmly went from one Crew to the next leaving broken cannons in their wake.

Oh, and the Bulls XtraHWs saves me 9 points over Ironfists even with all those Bulls units. :)

Thanks for the advice guys. I am considering swapping one group of Gnoblar Fighters for the Scouts, but again that means scrounging up points. Maybe I don't need a Bellower in every Bull unit.

Malorian
26-03-2008, 21:52
I PM'd you my thoughts on your list.

Dragons are nasty against ogres. One thing to keep in mind is that those gnoblars can really do a lot of damage to them (rider, not dragon), because since it's a large target all 20 can shoot even if ranked up. Sure it's a chaos lord, but those shots go through when there's that many...

Don't worry too much about the tombkings. Your tyrant gives you pretty good leadership. Just get in there and make sure to smash his chartacters with the tenderiser. His magic might get the better of you in the first couple of games because it's so different, but after that you should be fine.

Mercules
27-03-2008, 12:31
Nice point on the dragon rider. 20 shots even at Str 2 can end up doing damage. Even if all they do is one wound to the rider they might entice him to chase them down instead of an ogre unit worth 100+ points more.

After skimming through the copy of the Tombkings army book I finally obtained, it looks like their characters are the key. If I can take them out early on I just need to hold steady and let the army fall apart on it's own.

Thank you for the PM Malorian, I appreciate the advise.

Grom Wronghand
27-03-2008, 15:37
Dude, you're missing the best thing the Ogre lsit has to offer! You need Gorgers, they're excellent. I'd advise getting rid of the Maneaters for 2 Gorgers, and using the spare points elsewhere for magic items, command etc. Gorgers would sort out your problem with Skull Catapults, as they just turn up behind and rip it to shreds. The fact that catapults have a minimum range mean they can't turn around and shoot it either.

Mercules
27-03-2008, 15:48
I do not NEED Gorgers. I like them, but I do not need them. 2 of them use up all my Rare slots and 1 is not dependable. By turn 2, the earliest a Gorger can show up, I will often have my Yhetees 4" into his deployment area. They have a charge range of 14". From their they can hit a good 1/4-1/2 his deployment area. There are 3 so a Cannon will kill one the turn before they charge and then they will wipe out the crew if the crew even holds. The Gorger will come on the board and likely killed by one cannon shot since it can't charge that turn and Ogres have no sneaky movement magic to zip it into a charge.

Now, if I run a list with Skrag in it, you bet I'll have 4+ Gorgers and leave the Yhetee at home.
2 Gorgers = nice
4+ Gorgers = OW!

Sterling
27-03-2008, 16:58
I agree that gorgers make decent work of doing disruption/support. I also know that 2x gorger armies are, on the whole, more effective than 2x1 Maneater armies.

however, maneaters are not too much worse, provided there are yhetees and other adequate support units. Maneaters also have the added bonus of not being terrible models, have better fluff, and can be converted out of a basic irongut or bull. I also use 2x units of 1 maneater (unless it's a tournament I am expecting to be tough and I am really trying to win) simply because I love my pirate (BOH) and my two converted maneaters, The Traveler (Really Big Sword, has been great weapon or CLS) and Goldharg, Quartermaster/paymaster (Halberd, which I usually call a great weapon). My biggest issue is trying to pick which 2 maneaters to field. I would go with a larger unit, but there is only so far I will go for aesthetics.

Malorian
27-03-2008, 19:02
Nice point on the dragon rider. 20 shots even at Str 2 can end up doing damage. Even if all they do is one wound to the rider they might entice him to chase them down instead of an ogre unit worth 100+ points more.

Not 20 shots... 40 shots!

It's a thrown weapon so you don't get minus's for moving or long range.

It's a large target so you get +1 to hit.

So either you can single shot (20 X 2/3) and get 13 hits, or you can double tap (40 X 1/2) and get 20 hits, plus there is a higher potential ; )

Grom Wronghand
27-03-2008, 22:02
You make a good point point with the yhetees vs. gorger argument, but Gorgers have the advantage of being able to show up wherever they are needed most. What if the enemy has archers/warmachines on a hill which is protected from the front by some solid troops? Yhetees would have to get through the troops protecting the hill first which they might not be able to do. Gorgers however, wouldn't have that problem. Also, with only Ld 7, they stand a decent chance of running from that one model lost to the cannon. Again, Gorgers are unbreakable and therefore don't have this problem. If you only bring one Gorger then yes, hes going to get blasted by that cannon, but if you bring 2, one is virtually garuanteed to get through. Also, cannons are quite hard to hit with a such a short range. All you have to do is bring on the Gorger and immediatly move him right next to the cannon. They might use grapeshot if possible, but you can hope otherwise.

Mercules
28-03-2008, 12:42
You make a good point point with the yhetees vs. gorger argument, but Gorgers have the advantage of being able to show up wherever they are needed most. What if the enemy has archers/warmachines on a hill which is protected from the front by some solid troops? Yhetees would have to get through the troops protecting the hill first which they might not be able to do. Gorgers however, wouldn't have that problem. Also, with only Ld 7, they stand a decent chance of running from that one model lost to the cannon. Again, Gorgers are unbreakable and therefore don't have this problem. If you only bring one Gorger then yes, hes going to get blasted by that cannon, but if you bring 2, one is virtually garuanteed to get through. Also, cannons are quite hard to hit with a such a short range. All you have to do is bring on the Gorger and immediatly move him right next to the cannon. They might use grapeshot if possible, but you can hope otherwise.

My main issue with Gorgers is the random arrival time. With a Skragg list they are a no-brainer. You can have enough you can almost plan on two showing up at once if Skragg hasn't already triggered the ability to bring them all in at once. You can field 2 Gorgers and you do so that you have very good odds of one showing up in turn 2. Getting 2 would be golden but you can't rely on that.

It's a very good idea to zip in close to a cannon. I did that the last time I faced Dwarves and got lucky. I was at a point with my Yhetees when I came out of cover that I was possibly in range for the template. If he loaded Grapeshot he might actually get lucky and take out 2 Yhetees or he could "guess" low and take out one for sure and maybe panic them. He went Grapeshot and the template was > < this far short.

I guess I have the same luck with Gorgers that I do with Leadbelchers. I seem to do as many wounds to myself with Leadbelchers as I do the unit I'm firing upon and often my wounds are more expensive. My Gorgers seem to always come in separate and be picked apart quickly before they can be much more than a distraction. The distraction is handy sometimes, but distractions are best when you need it, not dictated by a random die. This would be why I don't play Orcs & Goblins.

So while I will definitely admit that Gorgers are useful and handy, like Tunneling Teams and Miners, I prefer to save them for the sick and wrong moments you can get in a Skrag list.