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Malorian
26-03-2008, 18:51
Following the lead of others I think I will group all my vampire count battle reports together (makes it easier for everyone).

I have put together my entire 2000 force in two days (except for the vampires that I had made earlier) and plan to get it painted within a month to be ready for a tournemant on May 2nd. I think there will be a lot of long nights ahead of me.

Fluff:

The theme for the army is a magic heavy Lahmian army with lots of ghouls.

The Vampire Lord (Lahboura Von Sinn) started as a priestess of Nefferata, and fled when the kingdom of Lahmia fell, to the Silver Pinnacle with the rest of Neferate's court. Lahboura resented Nefferata for losing the kingdom and slowly, as this was brought up, Lahboura lost favour with the court and became more of an outsider.

Lahboura's real obsession was with power and controlling others. As a priestess she had learned and almost mastered the black arts, but yet the will of men had always been too much for her. Although her beauty could draw them near and their will be manipulated to an extent, there was always a limit of how far they would go for her. It always came back to her the way the commoners had turned against them in Lahmia, and so without total control she didn't trust the will of men.

This is when Lahboura turned her attention to ghouls. Their minds were weak and yet they were more resilient that men. Over time she mastered the art of controlling their minds and bending them to her will. They would come when called, do as they were told, and die protecting her if needed to. Plus why wait for men to come to the Silver Pinnacle to get fresh blood when the mountains were full of ghouls.

As it turned out this was the last straw. Nefferata wouldn't stand for the unsightly ghouls, or one of her own feeling off them, so Lahboura was exiled from the Silver Pinnacle to live amoung her foul ghouls.

For many a year Lahboura travelled the empire, keeping her identity secret, and learning to keep her army of ghouls at bay as to be accepted into her current community.

It was during these travels that she first met the young Kurt Helborg. From a hill he saw him lead his forces against a chaos army, and although his tactical skill was appearent, the main thing that drew her in was his control of his men. They faced almost certain death, and many fell by the blades of the chaos warriors, and yet they would hold their ground and fight to the bitter end. Being that this was something she had always failed to do it brought up a great deal of respect for the man (or rather, a respect for what he could do).

The idea then came to her, control Kert Helborg and you can control the men. If she could twist Kurt around her finger then whole armies of men and ghouls would be at her control.

At a local tavern where the victorious general was celebrating Lahboura approached Kurt in an attempt to seduce him. Over the course of the night the vampire priestess worked her black art and worked at controlling his mind, but in the end it was useless. The man knew nothing but battle and had no desire for woman other than a prize. The idea of controlling him as a wife was pointless.

Frustrated she toiled over a new plan. Then, as if by fate, it came to her. A man had caught sight of the ghouls she used as scouts and was going about putting them down. At the head of his knightly bodyguard they were running down her ghouls as if by duty. She was about to summon more to crush them when she noticed something particular about the man... he looked a lot like Kurt...

Playing the role of damsel in distress she allowed the ghouls to be slaughtered until the man made his way to her and hoped off his horse.

"Hector Helborg at your service m'lady. Are you harmed?"

Everything had fallen into place with the least of effort. Within no time Hector's mind had been controlled and within a month they were wed and Lahboura was wife to the brother of Kert Helborg.

In Hector's keep Lahboura soon gave several handmaidens the bloodkiss, and had her own court of vampires. With her power base set she called upon Kurt Helborg to meet her privately.

When Kurt came Lahboura revieled her identity and told the general frankly that her hold on his brother was complete and that if he didn't want harm to come to him he would do as he was told. However, rather than becoming his pawn Kurt broke into a rage and attacked. In the middle of the brawl Hector stormed into the room to see what the fuss was about and saw his brother battling his wife and her handmaidens.

Concentrating on the battle and avoiding Kurt's runefang, Lahboura lost control of Hector and he quickly became aware of the situation. Drawing his sword he too joined the battle. With the situation grown desperate the vampires began to flee as Lahboura summoned an army of ghouls to attack the castle, and by the time the vampires had mde it to the court yard (with the Helborg brothers hot on their heels) the keep was over run with ghouls.

With the extra support the keep's guards were eventually fell and it was Kurt who was forced to flee. The last thing Kurt saw as he rode away was his brother doubled over the sword held by Lahboura herself.

With his reputation, and the reputation of his family at stake, Kurt gathered an army of his closest friends and marched on the keep. When they got there they found it empty save for a handful of ghouls feasting on the dead.

From that point on Lahboura has held the soul of Hector hostage, and when serving the Emperor, Kurt continues his quest to kill the Lahboura and free his brother. Both determined to go on fighting and never bow to the other.

List:

I like to have a set list that I use all the time no matter who I'm facing so these are my lists:

Lvl 3 Vampire lord *Lahboura* w/ master of the dark arts, summon ghouls, ghoulkin, sword of might, crown of the damned (395)

Vampire w/ master of the black arts, helm of commandment (180)

Vampire w/ master of the black arts, book of arkhan (185)

Necromancer w/ sceptre of noirot (80)

15 Crypt ghouls w/ ghast (128)
15 Crypt ghouls w/ ghast (128)
15 Crypt ghouls w/ ghast (128)
10 Crypt ghouls (80)

Corpse cart w/ balefire (100)
Corpse cart w/ unholy loadstone (100)

6 Cairn wraiths (300)

7 Black knights w/ barding (196)

Total: 2000
PD: 14 + 3 bound
DD: 7

To get to 3000 add:

Wrightking *Hector Helborg* w/ lance, hand of death, barded skeletal steed (157)

Vampire w/ master of the black arts, rod of flamming death, nightmare (198)

20 Skeletons w/ spears, full command, banner of hellfire (206)

Corpse cart w/ balefire (100)

20 Grave guard w/ full command, war banner (295)

make one of the black knights a standard bearer w/ benner of undead legion (41)

Total: 2997
PD: 17 + 6 bound
DD: 8


Battles:

http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2471025&postcount=2
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2472130&postcount=4
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2492407&postcount=17
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http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2519254&postcount=30
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2519350&postcount=31
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2532050&postcount=34
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2551129&postcount=35
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2559740&postcount=41
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2571649&postcount=56
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2621332&postcount=121
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2621423&postcount=122
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2637236&postcount=144
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2653412&postcount=174
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2678417&postcount=206
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2678495&postcount=207
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2700461&postcount=217
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2711978&postcount=226
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2731275&postcount=242
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2748581&postcount=256
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2824894&postcount=284
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2864213&postcount=296
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2926027&postcount=324
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2984110&postcount=345
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http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3003358&postcount=358
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3003469&postcount=359
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3003547&postcount=361
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3110846&postcount=383
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3115068&postcount=399
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3307001&postcount=413
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3334992&postcount=458
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3335014&postcount=459
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3375664&postcount=481
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3396621&postcount=545
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3438702&postcount=567
http://warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3452412&postcount=577
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3708696&postcount=595
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3729706&postcount=606
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3729710&postcount=607
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3741531&postcount=631
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3741613&postcount=632
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3741616&postcount=633
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3741621&postcount=634
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4202565&postcount=683
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4617041&postcount=704
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4617044&postcount=705
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4824216&postcount=713
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5264553&postcount=730
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5282408&postcount=740

Malorian
26-03-2008, 19:58
The first battle I had was a 2000 pointer against wood elves and it was when I only had my necromancer, but we really wanted to test the new list so we did a lot of proxy (and I had grave guard instead of cairn wraiths, and no barding on my knights).

He used my typical woodelve army:

Highborn on dragon w/ bow of loren, arkain bodkins, spear, light armor, enchanted shield
Noble w/ hail of doom arrow, bow of hurt yourself, spear, light armor, shield, horse

10 glade guard X 4
5 glade riders X 3
8 dryads

3 war hawks

5 waywatchers X 2

The terrain of the board didn't really matter other than a group of woods in the right of my deployment zone. I knew he would put his waywatchers there so I setup my black knights to flush him out. Otherwise he was in shoot'em up formation and I had a bunch of ghouls with the graveguard on the other flank.

Ghouls got free move up, and it was at this point I realized my carts were out of position. I had placed them behind the ghouls and now with the free move, they were too far back for hellish vigour, so I would be forced to raise quickly to get in range or move slow for a few turns to let it catch up.

Turn 1:

Woodelves got first turn and didn't move much except for the waywatchers. In a horrific shooting phase my black knights were completely wiped out with a lone vampire standing there facing 10 waywatchers... who could stand and shoot if I charged...

I moved up and raised like crazy. Vampire walked up to the first waywatchers and had the book dispelled, but her own vanhels go through to get into combat. She only did 1 wound though and it was a drawn combat.

Turn 2:

Dragon and hawks move up and dryads move to threaten my graveguard. Shooting kills a few ghouls, but not much, and several arrows are regenerated by a corpsecart. In combat I win but they hold.

I summon a bunch more (front ghouls are at 25+) and make a good sized unit of zombies in front of the dryads to slow them down. In combat I finally win but can't catch them.

Turn 3:

Waywatchers rally, other unit shoots at the lone vampire and does a wound (not killing blow luckily). Dryads charge zombies and crush them. After crumbling only 1 remains...

Graveguard charge the dryads, and vampire charges the large waywatcher unit. Ghouls move to charge archers in next turn and wait to see of the dragon charges in. More ghouls summoned. In combat my grave guard do nothing and get destroyed (I had the necromancer in the front rank so I only had 5 attacks). Zombie crumbles and so do some grave guard. Other vampire draws combat.

Turn 4: Hawks and dragon dual charge bunker ghouls (with lord and other vampire, with only 12 ghouls at the time) but the dragon is just out by an inch and fails the charge.

Woodelve player gives up.

Victory to the vampire counts.

Things I learned:
-Start the corpse carts up as far as you can so they can keep up with the ghouls.
-WS 3 and a 5+ save sucks, will go to hand weapon shield on grave guard for sure
-Don't put necromancers in the front of a tough unit, leave him in the ghoul bunker
-Put barding on black knights (would have helped a LOT)
-Don't get cocky. (I wasn't even thinking about the bunker being charged. I was just looking at those big units in front and thought I was safe.)

As if my proxy battle, and the blood spilt in it, gave my vampires strenght, the next day my package came in with all my models : )

P.S. I kept this battle report short and sweet since there were so many mistakes, but the following will be to my regular standard ; )

Peegore
26-03-2008, 19:59
Seducing Kurt Helborg? She didn't stand a chance. Have you SEEN that moustache? You only ever get them in the Blue Oyster Bar...

Seriously, that is some well fleshed out fluff, and if I were to start a Vamp army ( when I've finished at least three others I have started:( ) then the list you came up with for 2000pts quite appeals.

And kudos for designing an army list to X points and not messing with it. It's way better to play your list la ot and learn how it works best, rather than chop and change units and items every time things go wrong.

EDIT - Just posted as you added the short Batrep. Well done! And hey, I enjoy any battle report, short or long.... I've yet to face the Vamps with my Woodies. This result didn't add to my confidence...

Malorian
27-03-2008, 05:15
Game 2:

This one was against woodelves again and was 2000. With my newly put together models I was excited to give them a try.

Her list:

Highborn w/ greatweapon, ambre pendant, hail of doom arrow
Noble w/ stuff
lvl 2 mage
lvl 2 mage

10 glade guard X3
20 eternal guard w/ full command
8 glade riders
10 dryads w/ champ

4 treekin
10 waywatchers

The board was 4X6 and there was a hill in the left of her deployment zone and a forest in the right and left of my deployment zone.

The three blocks of ghouls were placed with the corpse carts between them and the bunker behind. The lord and a vampire were in the front right unit, there was a vampire in the left unit and the necromancer was in the bunker. To the right behind the hill I had the black knights w/ the cair wraiths behind (scared of hail of doom).

Her archers and most of the characters were on the hill. to their right were the riders and the eternal guard w/ the highborn. to their right was the treekin with the dryads to their right. the waywatchers went into the trees to the right, in front of my black knights.

Pregame my ghouls march up.

She won first turn.

Turn 1 WE:

Her combat units all moved up. The magic phase was shut down and her shooting didn't fo much. The waywatchers did nothing to the black knights and the archers on the hill killed 7 ghouls mainly from the left unit.

Turn 1 VC:

Black knights charge waywatchers who flee and I run them down and go into treekin. (she didn't know they could move through trees without penalty). The ghouls with the lord charge the eternal guard and she stand and shoots with hail of doom arrow which kills 7. Cairn wraiths move to edge of trees to charge eternal guard's flank next turn. Units all move up and center ghouls turn to phase eternal guards other flank. In the magic phase I make the lords units 25ish strong, and make a unit of 12 zombies in front of riders. the rest fo my summoning is pretty bad and the book is not only dispelled (trying to get ghouls in highborns flank) but I roll a 1 and so it's out of the game. The black knights do NOTHING and get creamed. The treekin overrun. (This is the second game they have been wiped out turn 1...) In the other combat I declare a challenge with my lord and she takes it with the unit champ. Thanks to the ambre pendant she goes first and evens wounds my lord, but the lord kills the champ. Thanks to the unit being WS 6 due to the helm from the other vampire I don't do so badly and I lose about 7 models in total.

Turn 2 WE:

Treekin charge cairn wraiths (ouch) and riders try to charge zombies but they fail their fear test. Dryads move up to lords flank. Magic is shut down again. Shooting is deadly as everything opens into the left unit and at the end I'm left with the vampire and 2 ghouls... in combat the wraiths do 1 wound to the treekin and are wiped out. In the other combat my lord challenges again and his highborn accepts. The highborn misses all his attacks and I do two wounds back. My ghouls do 4 wounds and I lose 2. She loses and runs and runs 1 more inch than me.

Turn 2 VC:

Zombies charge riders, who hold. Lord's unit charge highborn's and catches them (just enough). Middle unit turns and lines up with cart to take the charge from the dryads. The vampire on the left moves into the bunker and the 2 ghouls move up. In the magic phase I get moer ghouls in almost all the units (I didn't know that zombies get D6+4... it really helps...). I make a unit of zombies besides the 2 ghouls (who are now 6). In combat my WS 6 zmobies kill 3 horses and lose three of their own. I lose combat by 1 and a zombie bites it.

Turn 3 WE:

Dryads charge center ghouls and cart. Treekin refrom. Archers move back. again her magic is shut down. Her shooting wipes out the small ghoul unit and kills 2 of the new zombies. In combat I use the helm on the ghouls and don't do too badly. I only kill 1 dryad and lose combat by three. Thanks to regeneration the cart only take 1 wound. The now WS 1 zombie don't do so well and they are wiped out.

Turn 3 VC:

Cart charges riders, zombies charge archers who stand and shoot and kill 4. (wounding on 2+ hurts...) The lord unit moves up and around the riders and uses vanhels to get into same combat as zombies. I raise another unit of zombies to redirect the treekin, and raise a bunch of zombies in the other unit as well as some ghouls. Thanks to ASF and WS 6 the ghouls and cart crush the dryads and run them down. The other cart loses combat by 1 and takes a wound. The lord's ghouls and the zombies make short work of the archers and overrun. The next archers panic and run.

At this point the WE lpayer gave up.

Although we had only played 3 turns it took about an hour because of all the rules arguing and the long magic phase.

Some things that came up and lessons learned:
-The group IS going to let IoN be cast into combat thanks to the GamesDay ruling.
-Can the hellish vigour be cast while the cart is in combat? We weren't sure but let it go anyway.
-I have to be more careful with the cairn wraiths. I should have ran them up the other side, by I was worried about hail of doom (which I though was on the noble) and I really wanted to get them into combat with the eternal guard.
-With the ability to raise a ton of zombies and ghouls I really need to buy more models (I was using gnoblars to fill things in).

Hope you enjoyed reading.

Vampire counts are now 2W 0L :D

soots
27-03-2008, 05:36
I have no idea WHATSOEVER why your first opponent gave up? He was annihilating you, then threw in the towel?

You have been extremely unlucky with BKs too.

Malorian
27-03-2008, 05:38
In the first game I was just about to assault all the archers and with the dragon messing up my lord could get to safety while I tied the dragon in combat. It was pretty hopeless at that point...

Boss_Salvage
27-03-2008, 12:47
The treekin overrun.
They couldn't have overrun after destroying the BK, as the treekin didn't charge that turn ...

2 solid wins against quitting woodies, nice work ;)

I like your list a lot, props on using such a hearty unit of wraiths, though I'm surprised to see no banshee for screaming schenanigans (on the flip side the she-ghost would likely drag down the combat potential of the unit, but she is a big gun). At first I was taken aback by the amount of points you have tied up in your characters, but thinking about it it's only like 200 more than my 2k ogre army has in characters :D

Look forward to further evil exploits! Right now the helm vamp appears to be the most useful single model, boosting ghouls / zombies left and right, so interested to see what shines in the future.

- Salvage

warlord hack'a
27-03-2008, 14:06
looks like VC with the new book have been given a bit too much summoning power. I mena d6+4 zombies with only one spell can really mess up anything the opponent is planning.

Nice battle reps though

the_raptor
27-03-2008, 15:40
looks like VC with the new book have been given a bit too much summoning power. I mena d6+4 zombies with only one spell can really mess up anything the opponent is planning.

Nice battle reps though

D6+4 zombies who are worth 50 VP (1/4 more then if they had of been bought)? And who will likely get reduced to less then five even on a rear/flank charge?

VC's summoning power is not in zombies.

Boss_Salvage
27-03-2008, 16:21
D6+4 zombies who are worth 50 VP (1/4 more then if they had of been bought)?
And if you roll up only 5, those zombies are worth 10 points a pop ...

I think the real summoning horror is bringing back things like grave guard and blood knights, things that take work and risk to take down but can be brought back with an easily spammed spell.

- Salvage

Malorian
27-03-2008, 16:46
This wasn't in raising a new unit. This as in increasing the unit that was already there. So I used the sceptre of noirot to get a unit of D3+9 and then use IoN on them.

I had thought that IoN on a zombie unit only brought back D6, but the group all said it was D6+4, and who was I to argue ; )

Were they right? (I'm at work and don't have the book)

Arguleon-veq
27-03-2008, 17:36
Cool BatReps and fluff, Im always wary if using existing 'Big Characters' in my fluff though, with them having such well documented histories already.

I was also very suprised at the Wood Elf players giving up like that, the first seemed to still be very much in a situation where they could win the game, let alone draw. The second army didn't seem in dire straights either. I hate it when opponents just give up and dont even try to salvage a draw or at least go for some fun last stand stuff.

Congrats on the wins. Im also thinking of running a Ghoul army but with more Feral Ghoul King feel and with nowhere near that much magic.

AnotherZach
28-03-2008, 02:50
I had thought that IoN on a zombie unit only brought back D6, but the group all said it was D6+4, and who was I to argue ; )

Were they right? (I'm at work and don't have the book)


Yes, its the "The Newly Dead" rule in the zombie bestiary section on page 42. The same rule that allows zombies to be raised beyond their starting size.

warlord hack'a
28-03-2008, 09:29
indeed the power of summing lies in replendishing hard units, but still the zombies as redirecters and blockers to prevent me from ganging up on the undead unit I want to kill is easily worth 50 vp..

Malorian
28-03-2008, 12:09
Well I found that once I raised a couple of ranks and used the helm on them they did ok.

Then again, it was against wood elves in combat...

SevenSins
29-03-2008, 11:29
Now get a battle against that blasted empire and we'll see! (your etherals might do better at least, no "magic" troops in empire)

Malorian
03-04-2008, 05:53
Game 3

After solidifying her control in the forest, and repelling the attacks of the woodelves, Lahboura desides it's time to move on. They didn't get far however, as a Dark elve raiding party came at them without warning.

This game was 3000 point game vs darkelves on a 4X6 board.

DE list:

Malus Darkblade
Lvl 4 High sorceress on dark pegasus w/ power stone and some dispel scrolls
Lvl 2 sorceress w/ dispel scrolls
Lvl 2 sorceress w/ dispel scrolls

10 warriors w/ shields, crossbows X 4
20 witchelves w/ full command, banner of murder, rune of khaine

10 cold one knights w/ full command
20 exicutioners w/ full command

RBT X 4

The deployment zone had a hill in his back left corner, a large woods in the center across from the hill, and a large woods in the middle right.

I deployed the black knights w/ the mounted vampire behind, behind the hill. To the right of the forest from left to right was: ghouls, cart (balefire), ghouls, cart (stone), ghouls (w/ Lahboura and helm vampire, cart (balefire), grave guard (w/ wrightking), skeletons (w/ book vampire), cairn wraiths. Then behind the middle ghoul unit was the ghuol bunker w/ the necromancer.

On the hill he put his warmachines w/ three units of crossbowmen in front (2 stage hill). The center crossbowmen had a sorceress. to the right of the hill from left to right was: another unit of crossbowmen (w/ other sorceress), executioners (high sorceress behind), witchelves, cold one knights (w/ darkblade).

He won first turn. Before the game starts the ghouls march up.

Pre-game thoughts: The missile hill would be easy to take. Knights would move up into the font of the woods and then charge turn two, and ghouls could help out too. Darkblade will be trouble (never faced him or cold one knights before but I know they are nasty), but as long as the graveguard can take the witches then maybe I can hit the knights flank with the wraiths.


Turn 1 DE:

Darkblade passes stupidity. High sorceress flies behind the trees on the left, and the combat units on the right all move up, but not far. Magic phase isn't too bad and I noly lose a few ghuols from the left unit. In the shooting phase he kills another handfull from the left unit and his warmachines kill the left most corpse cart.

Turn 1 VC:

Lahboura passes stupidity test (neither general ever fails). Black knight run though woods and stay on the opposite edge. Ghouls and carts all move up and mounted vampire joins the weakened ghoul unit. Grave guard and skeletons move up but not far, and the wraiths run towards the trees on the right that puts them to the cold one knights flank (or rear if they charge). Most magic is stopped, but I get the weakened ghouls back up to 13, and make a small unit of zombies infront of the cold one knights/witches to redirect them if they charge. To try and draw out some DD I use the book on the cairn wriaths, but he lets it go through, however it turns I'm just in so after they pass a fear test I hit their flank. In combat I kill three knights but they hold. *In the magic phase I forgot that my vampires all had 3 PD instead of 2... oh well.*

Turn 2 DE:

Executioners charge middle ghouls (and are just in), and witches run like crazy and charge Lahboura's ghouls. High sorceress flies behind my line. Darkblade shifts over in the unit to be in combat (and uses potion). The black knights get hit by a black horror and three bite the dust. Soul steal is cast into the ghoul bunker and the necromaner takes a wound as well as 3 ghouls. (Both of those spells where cast with triple 6's) Warmachines kill 3 more black knights and the first unit of crossbowmen kill the last one (however this is the longest my black knights have ever lasted...). Rest of shooting goes into the ghouls w/ mounted vampire and the unit is wiped out (you'll notice that there will be big bunches of good/bad luck for both of us). In combat darkblade does a few wounds and 1 more knight is killed. I'm left with two wraiths. Lahboura makes a challenge and does three wounds to the champ, and my other vampire kills two. I lose a fair number of ghouls from the witches many attack and then a few more to crumbling. Ghast makes a challenge and the executioner champ cuts him down. I lose another seven ghouls after crumbling. *Not a good turn for me...*

Turn 2 VC:

Grave guard charge the witches front while the cart on the right hits their front. Skeletons move towards coldone knights. Other cart and bunker zombies move up a bit. Zombies move towards the crossbowmens flank (and to get out of the skeletons way). In the magic phase one of my carts gets hellish vigour off, and my ghoul units are all up to starting strength or higher (20 against the executioners). Hand of dust is dispelled and then I roll a '1' so it can't be used again. A wraith is raised. The book is dispelled and then the vampire uses her normal spell to try and cast vanhels again, but miscasts and the phase is over. In combat the witches are crushed and they are caught although the grave guard just barely don't make it into the executioners flank. This is ok because the ghouls w/ ASF does a number on them and they end up losing and outnumbered. Then I catch them ending up an inch away from the crossbowmen on the right. *This is where a rule debate came up. Since the helm vampire was now out of combat I wanted to used the helm to make the ghouls WS6, but my opponent said I couldn't. We rolled it off and I couldn't use it.* The wraiths are all destroyed.

Turn 3 DE:

Darkblade and his knights charge Lahbouras unit (and due to them being side by side they hit the cart at the same time, and darkblade is only touching the cart). Mages move out of units into the opening (Both towards the trees). The magic phase sees Lahbouras unit being hit by souls stealer and the bunker being hit by black horror (both times I ws 1 off of dispelling it). This ends up with a dead necromancer and a handful of dead ghouls (bunker only has 5 ghouls). He tries to take out another cart but rolls horribly. The ghouls in front of the crossbowmen are brought down to 6 models. In combat he didn't realize Lahboura's unit was still effected by hellish vigour and my vampires and ghouls kill all but the champ and darkblade before they get to attack. Darkblade does 1 wound to the cart (good ol' regeneration), and in a challenge his champ kills my ghast. He passes his break test.

Turn 3 VC:

Ghouls charge crossbowmen, who pass their fear test. Spearmen turn towards darkblades rear. Grave guard and cart move towards the hill. Bunker turns to face high sorceress. The I use the book to hit darkblade in the rear and bring back a few ghouls into Lahboura's unit. I cast vanhels on the grave guard and they try to charge a sorceress, but she flees and I fail. Then while trying to make a unit of zombies I miscast and the phase ends!!! I still have TONS of dice left which are lost and some very small units... In combat Darkblade makes a challenge which I take with the ghast, who proceeds to die many times over. Lahboura fluffs her attacks and DE end up with no loses, but still lose due to CR. They hold. The ghouls cause three wounds but all are saved. I lose a ghouls and then 2 more to combat res (oh oh...).

Turn 4 DE:

Sorceress dosn't rally and runs off the board. The high sorceress moves to my right flank, and casts soul stealer into Lahboura's unit killing about 6 ghouls. The Grave guard are hit by black horror and lose 8. In a shooting phase from hell where DE rolled amazingly and I rolled like garbage the grave guard are completely wiped out only leaving the wrightking. In combat Darkblade makes another challenge and I take it with the skeleton champ, who dies many times over. Lahboura finally kills the champ again and Darkblade runs. None of the units catch him. The ghouls do nothing and all crumble.

Turn 4 VC:

Zombies charge the crossbowmens flank and the wrightking charges the next unit over. Both crossbowmen unit fail their fear test so will be hitting on 6's. Skeletons move towards fleeing darkblade. Both units of ghouls and the cart move towards the hill (still march blocked). Both ghoul units are up to around 20+. All attepts to get vanhels on darkblade are dispelled, except for the last one where I miscast :wtf: In combat my wrightking kills only 1 and loses a wound to crumbling. The WS 6 zombies draw combat.

Turn 5 DE:

Darkblade rallies. Sorceress moves into trees to the left of the left ghoul unit (former bunker). The right RBt moves to the right so that if the wrighking over runs he won't hit it. the balefire works for the first time and stops black horror. Shooting mainly goes into the bunker unit bringing it down to 6 models. The cart on the right is destroyed. Wrightking fluffs attacks and crumbles. zombies lose by one.

Turn 5 VC: Everything keeps moving towards the hill except for the skeletons which turn back towards the high sorceress. the zombies fighting the crossbowmen are increased to 18 and a unit of 22 zombies is created and stands infront of Darkblade. I use the book to charge the high sorceress and she flees and gets away. The bunker ghouls are back up to 17ish. The WS 6 zombies beat the crossbowmen and runs them down when they flee hitting the next unit. *I remembered after that they make attacks rather then running after a unit* The right RBT panics and runs off the board.

Turn 6 DE:

Darkblade charges the zombies in front of him. High sorceress doesn't rally and keeps flying away. Magic is stopped. The warmachines destroy the last cart. Other shooting only kills a few ghouls. In combat the WS 6 zombies don't do much and actually lose combat to the crosbowmen. Darkblade kills a bunch of zimbies.

Turn 6 VC:

Seeing that I can't make it to the hill I don't move much except for the book vampire with the skeletons that rnus out of the unit towards the mage in the trees (the DE player was very surprised to learn they have M6). All units are over half and there is no way darkblade will kill all the zombies. I raise a few more zombies in the other unit and even make another one to hold a table quarter. I use the book to charge the mage with my vampire and she flees. I decide to end the phase with a hand full of dice because there is nothing else worth doing but I'm egged on to make one more spell. So for fun I try and cast winds of undeath with Lahbuora, and I miscast... but don't take a wound. In combat the zombies beat the crossbowmen who flee and this in turn (with much bad rolling) sending the other three warmachines and the other corssbowmen all panicing, completely wiping out the hill and ensuring I get the win as he only had Darkblade that wasn't dead or running.

Result: Victory to the vampires (3W 0L)

Post-game thoughts: Wow that turned around fast. In the beginning his shooting and magic were killing me as he rolled really well, but in the end things just fell apart for him and his horrible panic tests and rally tests lost it for him. Still disappointed in the black knights, but at least the cairn wraiths did ok, holding up and weaking his main unit until I was ready. Good game though :)

With the enemy dead or fleeing Lahboura quickly started regrouping. One of her handmaidens had fallen during battle and needed blood quickly (lucky there was no shortage of it on the battlefield). Hector had also fallen, but it wouldn't take much to reform the wright body that was his souls prision. Finally before she left she looked over at the enemy general Darkblade, still tearing apart zombies. Using her black arts she effortless brought dozens more zombies up from the ground. He would defeat them eventually, but by then she would be long gone. And with a smirk, and surrounded by her ghoulish horde, she continued on.

Unicorn
03-04-2008, 13:19
always a pleasure to read reports written so well :)

Boss_Salvage
03-04-2008, 14:21
Yowza Malorian, turned into a real beatdown against the spiky elves. Even with 3+ miscasts! What did you end up losing, just the black knights, cairn wraiths and grave guard? Or in other words, the 'elite' fighters were fragged while the core units were actually bigger when they started? :p

- Salvage

Malorian
03-04-2008, 14:28
Yowza Malorian, turned into a real beatdown against the spiky elves. Even with 3+ miscasts! What did you end up losing, just the black knights, cairn wraiths and grave guard? Or in other words, the 'elite' fighters were fragged while the core units were actually bigger when they started? :p

- Salvage

I lost:
-the cairnwriaths to Darkblade
-the blackknights to magic and shooting
-the left unit of ghouls w/ mounted vampire to massed shooting
-necromancer to magic
-all three corpse carts to shooting (mainly from RBTs)
-graveguard to magic and shooting
-wrightking to crossbowmen in combat :confused:

So I did actually lose a lot. I thought I was going to lose for sure, and then pushed for the tie. It was only his horrible rally and panic tests in the end that gave me the win.

warlord hack'a
04-04-2008, 12:41
looks like the thing to do against VC is kill one unit at a time, you now had a lot fo units that were reduced to very small numbers which you could raise up again. Dead is dead and then the VC only have raise dead which raises only D3+4 zombies and zombies are, well, zombies..

Malorian
05-04-2008, 05:51
Game 4

Her forces replenished from the scrap with the dark elve raiding party, Lahboura continued on across the plains. Having still not found a town, or even a village, they came across a warband of orcs. Having never faced them before, the vampire lord saw this as a good training exercise. How little did she know that before the day was through her army would pay a heavy price.

2000 orc vs 2000 VC

The orc force:

Orc warboss w/ shield, killing blow weapon
Bigboss w/ handweapon shield
lvl 2 orc shaman w/ 2 dispel scrolls on boar
lvl 2 nightgoblin shawmen w/ staff of sneaky stealing

24 black orcs w/ full command and banner of butchery
25 orcs w/ full command, extra hand weapon
25 orcs w/ full command, extra hand weapon
30ish night goblins w/ full command, nets, 3 fanatics (handweapon/shield)
8 spider riders
8 spider riders

orc chariot w/ extra orc
orc chariot w/ extra orc

doom diver

The board was a 4X6. The was a forest to the left, a hill with a building in his back right. The rest of the terrian didn't matter.

I deployed my black knights on the left flank, then from left to right it went: ghouls (w/ helm vampire), cart (stone), ghouls (w/ lord), cart (balefire), ghouls (w/ book vampire), cairn wraiths. Then behind Lahboura's ghouls I had the ghoul bunker w/ the necromancer.

He deployed both spider units behind the trees and then from left to right he had: Orcs, black orcs w/ lord, chariot, night goblins w/ goblin shaman, orcs w/ bigboss and orc shaman, chariot, and then the doom diver was on the hill.

I desided not to use my free march from ghoulkin (no need to rush in)

Pre-game thoughts: I had never played this player before although I knew he usually won from the games I saw. Those large blocks would mean it would be pretty much impossible to auto-break them but I was pretty sure I could handle them so I put my vampires up front. I was only worried about those fanatics that could cause a LOT of damage, but hopefully I could draw them out with zombies...

I won roll for first turn.


Turn 1 VC:

Lahboura passes stupidity test. Everything moves up although cairwariths more out to the flank, and the black knights only moved up as fast as the rest of the line. My magic phase was pretty horrible. I should be getting off the 1 dice cast with my lord 67% of the time but over the course of the game I'm pretty sure my average was 25%, with the majority being 1's (good thing I didn't go for two dice). He lets hellish vigour go through (because it was pointless) and stopped the book from letting the wriaths move more to his flank. I only raised about 4 ghouls in the left and the middle unit.

Turn 1 Orcs:

Orcs on the right run up 2 inches due to anamosity. Spiders run into the forest (one in front of knghts and one more to the flank). Other than that the whole line moves up a bit. He set up his left side in hopes that I would charge the spiders or the normal orc unit so that he could flee and counter charge. On the right flank the chariot did the same. (Looked like he hoped I would charge and destroy the chariot's flank and then run infront of the orc block). His magic was shut down (he never got a spell off so I won't mention it again). The doom diver hit the right unit of ghouls and killed 5.

Turn 2 VC:

Lahboura passes ehr stupidity. Cairn wraiths move more to the flank. Knight move back (turn-move-turn). The rest of the line doesn't move and is completely straigh so if you charge one part you charge the units beside as well. Hellishvigour and the book are stopped again, but my summoning is actually pretty good and my front units are all 20ish. I try to make a unit of zombies to draw out the fanatacis and can't get a 5 on 2 dice...

Turn 2 Orcs:

Chariot passes terror test. Waaaggh is called. All orc units move up. The night goblins get a 1 and 1 goblin is killed. Spiders charge the flank of the knights (damn...) and all the orcs (except the unit on the left that only waaagh'd 1 inch) and chariots charge in. Because I'm in a line it turns into two big combats: on the left the black orcs and a chariot were fighting my left and center ghouls and the stone cart (Lahboura was out of combat), and on the right my right ghouls and the balefire chart were fighting his right orc unit and a chariot. His doomdiver went after the bunker and misfired so it couldn't fire. In combat the spiders kill 1 black knight and 3 more crumble. On the combat on the left his warboss made a challenge and I took it with my ghast, and my ghast took 5 wounds for his bravery. His chariot smashed my cart, and even with my vampire killing a couple of black orks I lose combat by 12 after all the black orks attack (2 handweapons + banner of butchery). This totally wiped out the left ghouls, leaving only the vampire, and leaves the right unit with only 7 ghouls. In the right combat his bigboss made a challenge and my ghast took it, but this time my ghast lived and did 1 wound back! My ghouls take a thrashing and the orcs on the chariot even manage to kill the book vampire. Through crumbling my balefire cart dies (I lost by 8) and I'm left with 4 ghouls in the unit. *Wow, what a bad turn. The idea of forcing you to multicharge REALLY doesn't work with vampire counts... at this point I'm basically screwed, but maybe I can pull off a tie.*

Turn 3 VC:

Wriath charge flank of chariot, while my bunker ghouls hit the front. In the magic phase I forget about the unit of 4 ghouls on the right and through everything into rasing my lord unit and the bunker unit. I roll farily poorly again though and only get each up to about 13. I try to raise up some black knights with my helm vampire but on 3 dice I can't make a 4+. I move Lahboura over so she can fight. In combat nothing happens in the spider combat and I'm now down to 1 knight left. Lahboura makes a challenge with the warboss accepts and with three wounds the warboss is down. After seeing that my ghouls are actually faster than orcs I get my attacks the the ghouls and vampire kill enough that I don't get many attacks back. The black orcs hold, but the chariot runs away. In the right combat the wraiths smash the chariot, and the big boss and the ghast are still fighting, but the ghast finally falls. Again my greater init helps and I kill enough orcs to make up for the three ranks, and banner, and thanks to me out numbering by 1 they run. I try to only chase with my wriaths but I fail my test and have to chase with the bunker and I catch them. (The right unit of ghouls only has 1 ghoul now). By moving up I trigger the fanatics and they pop out 1 hits the bunker only killing a couple, 1 hits Lahboura's unit killing a couple, and the third stops infront of the bunker that I land on when I complete my movement and I lose four more.

Turn 3 Orcs:

Spiders not in combat fail anamosity. Nightgoblins charge the bunker. Chariot fails to rally and runs off the board. Fanantics spin around and don't hit anything. Orcs on left turn so they can hit my lords unit if they overrun. He doesn't notice the 1 ghoul and doesn't shoot the doom diver thinking that the only valid target are the wraiths. In combt my last knight crumbles (this might sound bad, but it's the longest they've ever survived). My lord makes a challenge that the black orc champ takes and with one wound Lahboura cuts him down. We each do some wounds to each other (my helm vampire even takes a wound) and I win combat by one and they hold. In the other combat my necromancer makes a challenge which the shaman accepts (mage fight!!!), and they do nothing to each other. I get netted but still cause a few wounds after the goblins fail to cause any. I lose combat and am down to three ghouls.

Turn 4 VC:

Wraiths charge into the flank of the night goblins as does the 1 ghoul. My magic phase goes poorly but I still manage to make a unit of 11 zombies infront of the unengaged orc block (angling them away if they charge so I an hit a flank). I also bump up the necromancers unit to about 12 and the lords is at about 15. I also heal the wound to my helm vampire. In combat my vampires crush the black orcs and they flee right into the fresh zombies while I hold back. The cairn wraiths kill 10 goblins and my ghouls kill a few more. His shaman does a wound to my necromancer and I lose a ghoul, but I win combat by a lot and they flee and are caught by the wraiths (ghouls are biggest unit strength so they run towards the orc deployment zone).

Turn 4 Orcs:

Spider riders try to charge lone vampire but fail their fear test. The last orc block doesn't charge. His other spiders runs infront of the fearful ones (to shoot vampire). Doom diver hits the bunker and kills 4. Spider riders shoot at the vampire but fail to wound.

Turn 5 VC:

*The plan is to charge the orcs with the zombies and for Lahboura to charge out of her unit to charge with them while the helm vampire joins the ghouls and makes the zombies WS6. What really happens:* Lahboura fails stupidity test and the ghouls stumble forward. To try and keep with the plan as much as I can I charge the orcs with the zombies and the helm vampire (BIG mistake) and the orcs pass their fear test. Cairn wraith move towards spiders. In the magic phase I make the zombie unit 23 strong and create a new unit of 10 in front of the doom diver. The Lahboura's ghoul unit gets a tiny bit bigger. In combat my helm vampire does 1 wound and not surprisingly my WS1 zombies get slaughtered and 8 zombies crumble as does my vampire. (I feel like hitting my head on the wall while chanting "Stupid stupid stupid...")

Turn 5 Orcs:

Both units of spiders line up to shoot at ghouls. Doom diver trys to hit bunker but misses, and the spiders kill a couple of ghouls. In combat I'm slaughtered again and end up with only 4 zombies.

Turn 6 VC:

Zombies charge into the doomdiver that passes it's fear test. The wraiths charge a unit of spiders that flee and get away. I ignore the doomed zombies and instead make sure all the ghoul units are over half strong (good thing he never killed that lone ghoul) and make a unit of zombies to take a table quarter. In combat the last 4 zombies are killed, and the doomdiver is beaten and run down.

Turn 6 Orcs:

Beig within 6 inches of the wriaths the orcs fails their terror test and flee, and the running spiders continue off the board. The spiders take some last shots at the ghouls but don't do enough to matter.

Victory to the vampire counts (4W 0L)

The day was Lahboura's but at what cost? What was suppose to be a learning experience as she slaughtered her first orc warband turned into a bloodbath. Her army needed a lot of repairing and both of his handmaidens had been cut down which slowed the process even more.

The ghouls dug a hole and filled it with the orc blood for the fallen vampires to bath in, before they feasted on the flesh. The necromancer when to work on the corpse carts while Lahboura used her dark art to rasie back her knights and heal her handmaidens. In time her army would be back to fighting strength, but she only hoped they weren't attacked before they were ready...


Post-game thoughts: While it was a very smooth game to play (he was about to start VC and knew the book better than me and agreed on all the rules), I sure made a LOT of mistakes. I really have to be more careful and learn my weaknesses.

Things I learned:

-Don't line up all my forces. I do NOT want my carts in the initial combat.
-Don't be so cocky with the vampires. Not only do they die easily, but I need that helm to stay out of combat.
-Wraiths can be REALLY nasty. I'm glad they are starting to work out.
-Don't start magic phase with the carts. I did it to draw out dispel dice, but it would have been very helpful to actually have them go through.

Malorian
10-04-2008, 05:13
Game 5

Luckily no one came across Lahboura while she re-gathered her strength (hell, no one even posted a reply) and so back up to full strength the ghoul army marched on.

In the distance she spotted an ogre army. She had never faced these brutes before, but they could be much trouble. The ghouls were about to make their attack when they were ambushed by an army of wood elves, and they wanted revenge!

Note: I was suppose to play an ogre army today, but the player was late so I ended up playing WE again. It looked to be a good battle though because she took a list made to shut down magic...

Her list:

Lvl 4 spellweaver w/ wand of wych elm, dispel scroll
Lvl 2 spellsinger w/ 2 dispel scrolls
noble w/ hail of doom
lvl 1 branchwraith w/ cluster of radiants

10 gladeguard X 4
8 glade riders w/ full command
11ish dryads

12ish wardancers w/ full command

5 waywatchers

My spells:

Lord: raise dead, vanhels, gaze of nagash
Book vampire: vanhels
Helm vampire: raise dead
Necromancer: raise dead (as always)

The board was a 6X4 and the only terrain that mattered was a big line of trees running down the center of the board (vertical).

In the clearing to the left I deployed from left to right: ghouls (w/ book vampire), stone cart, ghouls (and bunker ghouls behind w/ necromancer), balefire cart, ghouls (w/ helm vampire and lord). then the cairn wraiths were behind the trees and the knights were to their right a bit into the trees (to peep on the opposite side).

In the clearing across from me she had all the archers (spellweaver in the unit second from the left, spellsinger in the next unit to the right, and noble in the last unit to the right. then behind the trees were the wardancers and to their right the dryads (w/ branchwraith), and the glade riders were in the clearing. Waywatchers deployed inside the trees right by me.

Pre-game movement: The ghouls all march up.

I won first turn.


Turn 1 VC:

Lahboura passes stupidity (and always does). After the march I notice the knights and the stone cart are out of range and can't march. The line moves up (she is REALLY surprised how close I am on turn 1), with the stone cart trailing. The wraiths move into the trees right by the waywatchers, and the knights move a bit up. In the magic phase I learn about that silly wand (reroll dispel dice) and I don't get much off except for raising 6 ghouls in Lahboura's unit and 3 ghouls in the center unit. I also got hellish vigour off on balefire cart.

Turn 1 WE:

Waywatchers pass terror test. No charges (which is a surprise since I thought the wardancers would charge the lords unit.). Archers move a bit back as do the waywatchers but they can see the knights. The wardancers move into the woods and the dryads move towards the knights with the riders moving to their flank. In the magic phase she gets off the call of the hunt and I gladly let her wardancers charge into my Lord's ghouls. All else is stopped. Her shooting sees a waywatcher killing blow 1 knight and all units fire into the ghouls on the left but only kill 6. In combat she does the ASF dance, but Lahboura is Init. 7 and goes first killing 3, and the vampire wins the Init. roll off and kills another 1. Her wardancers kill 5 ghouls (1 is the ghast) and lose combat by 3 and runs but I don't catch them.

Turn 2 VC:

Knights charge the dryads who have to hold. Lord's ghouls charge the wardancers who flee enough away to make a failed charge but barely not enough to jump over the archers. Line moves up (cart is really lagging behind), and cairnwraiths move up inbetween waywatchers and the lord's ghouls. My magic phase is completely shut down other than bringing back the 1 dead ghast.. In combat my WS6 knights kill 5 dryads with no wounds in return and overrun the fleeing dryads just missing the noble's archers.

Turn 2 WE:

Glade riders charge into the rear of the black knight (pass fear). Wardancers rally. In the magic phase she gets the call of the hunt with irresistable force and recharges the lord's ghouls. She also gets an irresistable force with fury of the forest and kills 2 ghouls on the left. The noble tries to shoot the ghouls on the left with hail of doom but they are outside of his arc of sight. The other three units all shoot into the ghouls and wipe them all out except for the ghast and the vampire. In combat the glade rider kill 2 knights and I kill 1 back and the rest of my knights crumble. The wardancers go for the extra attack dance and kill 7 ghouls. Lahboura kills two and the vampire kills 1, as does the ghast, and I lose a few more ghouls.

Turn 3 VC:

Cairn wraiths charge into the wardancers. Center ghouls charge into the spellsingers unit losing 2 to stand and shoot. The lonely ghast runs up to the spellweaver, and the rest of the line moves up (stone cart finnaly makes it to center). My magic phase starts off well as I make a unit of 11 zombies and then vanhels them into the spellweavers unit, but then Lahboura not only miscasts, but she takes a wound, loses a magic level, and can no longer cast IoN!!! My vampires are able to raise a four ghouls in the lord's unit. In combat I crush the wardancers, with the loss of 2 ghouls, and the cairn wraiths overrun into the noble's unit. The center ghouls kill 4 archers and lose none of their own and stand as the remaining archers flee off the table. The WS 6 zombies actually kill 2 archers, but the remaioning ones kill two of them and one zombie crumbles.

With that the wood elve player gave up.

Victory to the Vampire Counts! (5W 0L)

Once again the pesky wood elves were beaten and sent running and yet not all was right. In trying to overpower the elven mage Lahboura had pushed her self too far and had miscast a spell which left her weakened and unable to concentrate. In fact the ghouls were starting to break from her command and not obey her orders. Her handmaidens helped all they could but there was only so much they could do. Her strength would come back in time, but it was a stinging reminder that as powerful as she was, she wasn't all powerful when it came to her skill in the black arts.

Post-game thoughts: Wow... not even three turns... I'm really getting tired of not getting to play a full game. Sure the WE player was doomed, but she could at least have gone for a couple more turns to play it out, and with my lord not being able to summon ghouls any more it's not like I would be overpowering her. The knights sucked again... beaten by fast cav... again... Another good game for the cairn wraiths. I'm still waiting for them to be hit by the hail of doom... the wand also is nasty. Good thing you can't combine it with the staff of sorcery.

Things learned:
-My knights are cursed... it's settled now...
-The wand of wych elm is nasty. Next time I think I will just puch my way through it and drain her dice instead of going to two dice. It just hurts me too much when I miscast.

warlord hack'a
10-04-2008, 12:40
what made the woodelf player think that charging wardancers versus a vampire character with ASF in place was agood idea? that move cost him/her the game and also, why did the wardancers charge in the first place, they are by far manouverable than the ghouls, could have easliy moved to the side and then charged the flank (which was character less?)..

SevenSins
10-04-2008, 13:07
I'd say several bad decicions cost her the game. Focusing fire and all that

Warlord hack'a: As for charging Asf lords, did she know? We don't play open lists were I play, so the charge on the lord was just a regular gamble if you ask me.

Boss_Salvage
10-04-2008, 13:14
Did the vamp alone have ASF? Dunno if the whole unit had ASF cast on it (think it did), in which case is it not a RiP spell that she could have dispelled?

Nice work on 2 more wins, and thanks for 2 more great reports. Somehow I missed #4, but just meant I had more to read today ;)

I hope you can fight those ogres sometime, appears to be the only army that consistently gives vamps a run for their money.

- Salvage

Malorian
10-04-2008, 13:46
The vamp had ASF because of the hellish vigour that the balefire corpse cart got off, so she should have known, and I really don't know why she didn't hit the center unit that had no characters. Sure I could of flank charged later (assuming they wouldn't be wiped out), but then that would screw up my formation and give her more time to shoot.

But hey, I'm not going to complain ; )

EvC
10-04-2008, 13:51
That girl sure gives up easy.

warlord hack'a
11-04-2008, 07:36
I have never given up a battle before, when it goed bad it's just denying your opponent a nice mopup time..

Malorian
13-04-2008, 04:04
Game 6

All seemed well. Her powers had returned and no one had been able to stand up to her will. Then they came. It was just a feeling at first, but as the sand began to blow across her face, although she was in the middle of a lush field, Lahboura knew they had come for her.

She turned to face to coming sand storm, and as quickly as it started it stopped again and in it's place was an army, and army of skeletons, of the tomb kings.

A chariot pulled by two skeletal horses came up and stopped a fair way away. "We come in the name of our king. Queen Neferata demands your life and in return will reward our king greatly. So prepare yourslef vile vampire, and may you fall quickly."

With that he rode back to his lines, and with a sneer the forests behind her burst forth with her ghoul army. If it's a fight they wanted, they would pay dearly for it!

This game was 3000 point game. I should say from the start that my games against this TK player are always tough fought and very close, every dice roll seemingly meaning the whole game. I'll do my best to give the battle report, but to be honest, so much happened that I know I won't do it justice. In particular, his catapults were always shooting and sometimes they killed a few ghouls, sometimes they scattered. I'll only mention them when they did something big.

His list: (he gave me the list, but I might have mispelled some things)

tomb king w/ crook and flail of radiance, collar of shapesk
liche high priest w/ cloak of dunes, plaque of incarnation, 2 dispel scrolls
tomb prince w/ chariot of fire, flail, light armor, brooch of the great desert
tomb prince w/ great weapon, amulet of pha-stak
liche priest w/ casket of souls, staff of sorcery
liche priest w/ staff of ravening

3 chariots w/ icon of the sacred eye *chariot prince here*
4 chariots
23 skeletons w/ banner, light armor *GW prince and liche priest here*
24 skeletons w/ banner, light armor, BOTUL *king here*

24 tomb guard w/ champian, standard, icon of rapataph
tomb scorpian
tomb scorpian
3 carrian

catapult
catapult


Since his army was obviously modified to fight me I also changed my list (before I saw his), so I had:

Lvl 3 Vampire lord *Lahboura* w/ master of the dark arts, summon ghouls, sword of might, crown of the damned, 2 dispel scrolls
Vampire w/ master of the black arts, rod of flamming death, nightmare
Vampire w/ master of the black arts, helm of commandment
Vampire w/ master of the black arts, book of arkhan, dispel scroll
Wrightking *Hector Helborg* w/ lance, hand of death, barded skeletal steed
Necromancer w/ sceptre of noirot, dispel scroll

15 Crypt ghouls w/ ghast
15 Crypt ghouls w/ ghast
15 Crypt ghouls w/ ghast
10 Crypt ghouls
20 Skeletons w/ spears, full command, banner of hellfire

Corpse cart w/ unholy loadstone
Corpse cart
Corpse cart

6 Cairn wraiths

7 Black knights w/ barding, banner
20 Grave guard w/ full command, war banner

Total: 2997
PD: 17 + 6 bound
DD: 8
*So basically I dropped ghoulkin, both balefires, and the knights banner to get 4 dispel scrolls, although looking back at it now, my book vampire was ilegal since I have 60 points of gear (I thought the book was only 25 when I was throughing the scrolls in), but in the end I think it was fair since his list was so much better at shutting down mine*

The board was exaclt the same as last time, so a forest on either side of out deployment zones.

He deployed his four chariots infront of his tomb guard to the left of the trees. In the clearing from left to right he had a skeleton, the kings skeletons, the carrion with casket and high priest behind, prince skeleton. Then on the right of the right trees he had the chariots with the prince and a scorpian to their right. One catapult was on the left flank and the other was by the chariot.

I put my cairn wriaths on the left flank, then in the clearing I had: ghuols with book vampire, cart, ghouls with bunker behind with necromancer and helm vampire, stone cart, ghouls with lord. The knights were in the trees with the mounted vampire behind. Then on the right flank I had the grave guard with wrightking, the cart and the skeletons.

Pre-game thoughts: At this point I didn't know his list or what he had. I just hoped he didn't have the staff... my plan was to stall the tomb guard on the left and team up on the skeletons in the middle. The right flank could probably hold off his units, but we'd have to see...

He got first turn.

Turn 1 TK:

The carion flew to the edge of the trees to the right, both scorpians moved up as did both chariot units and tombguard. The skeletopn blocks only moved up a bit. In the magic phase he tried to draw my dice by doing things like using the banner of the undying legion and declaring to magically move units. Luckily I'm used to his tricks and he didn't even move them when he got them off. He did however magically fly his carrion behind my right unit of ghouls. Casket is scrolled. In the shooting phase his catapults killed a few ghouls and the left corpse cart. I was going to take regeneration until he reminded me that his catapults count as flaming attacks (doh!).

Turn 1 VC:

Pass stupidity. Everything moves up although the remaining carts don't move their full distance. The wraiths head towards the chariots. The knights move through the trees to face the chariots on the right (I dare ya to charge me...). I tried to setup so that I was out of charge range of the scorpian and if the chariots charged the GG then I could flank with the knights. The mounted vampire went into the tree to face the carrion. It was in the magic phase that I knew my magic would be in trouble. The casket means I'm -1 to cast, and then his banner gives him +1 to dispel, so basically if I want to win the 1 dice attack I have to win by three... good luck... so I switch to two dice and miscast with a vampire only to lose her powerdice which she was out of any way. All I really got done was get off the hellish vigour and maybe a few ghouls. I was however able to kill one carrion with the rod. This was going to be a rough game...

Turn 2 TK:

No charges. Chariots on the left move to charge the left ghouls as does the left scorpian. Nothing else really moves much (he's waiting for me to make a mistake). In the magic phase I use a lot of dice and a scroll to stop the chariots on the left from charging, and with my last two dice I stop the casket. A few of his units did move up a tiny bit.

Turn 2 VC:

Wraiths charge the chariots and the mounted vampire charges the carrion. Knights move a bit more up and my center line moves up too. My magic phase is again shut down... I think I made a small unit of zombies behind the carrion but that's it. In combat I crush the chariots and they crumble, and the carrion are also destroyed by the vampire.

Turn 3 TK:

Scorpian charges the wraiths (I believe he did this so that when I formed up I would be closer for the tomb guard to charge). Not wanting the scorpian to be flanked by the ghouls the chariot on the right move across to threaten the ghouls if he can get the magic off, and the scorpian moves up to protect the flank of the knights incase they don't. In the magic phase I blow my last two scrolls but I stop the chariots from charging. thanks to forgetting to move his timb guard in the movement phase they weren't able to charge either. In combat his scorpian didn't stand a chance.

Turn 3 VC:

I fail stupidity and stumble forward. The knights charge the flank of the chariots, and the wrightlord charges out of the unit to hit the scorpian. Everything moves up although since there are no vampires near my flanks move very slowly. My magic phase actuaklly goes fairly well (considering my lord can't cast!) and not only to I get some ghouls in my units (making up for catapult loses themain three were between 15 and 20), I also got the hand of dust off!!! He had no dice left and rolled a 1 for the MR on the scorpian. This kills the scorpian and saves the wrightking from his suicide mission. I also get off winds of undeath for the first time ever and make a 4W spirit host to go after the casket. My knights kill a chariot but that's it and I'm not in base with the prince.

Turn 4 TK:

His skeleton units move up but his right one is very careful with my lord in a big unit of ghouls right across from them. He uses his staff of ravening to kill the spirit host. Uses another spell to kill 2 cairn wraiths, and magically charges the center ghouls with the tomb king's unit. His catapult kills another wraith. In combat my ghast makes a challenge and is crushed by the king. The WS 6 ghouls and the book vampire do ok and I only lose by a few. the prince kills a knight and he loses by 2.

Turn 4 VC:

I pass stupidity. Wright lord charged the rear of the chariots. I don't flank charge the skeletons with my lord's unit because I will in turn be flanked by the other skeletons, so I only flank charge with the left ghoul unit. wraiths move towards rear of skeletons. In the magic phase I make a unit of zombies to slow the tomb guard down and that's about it other than getting hand of dust off again and killing all the chariots. I roll a 1 on the book after it's stopped. In combat I challenge with the other ghast and he takes 5 wounds for his bravery. I win combat by 1 or 2.

Turn 5 TK:

Tomb guard move up, and high priest flies behind the flanking ghouls. A catapult kills a knight. In the magic phase he gets a lot of skeletons back, but I stop his other skeleton unit from charging my lord. In combat I take a real beating and lose some models in both units. (The skeletons are about 20 strong against a unit of 12ish in front and 9ish on the flank).

Turn 5 VC:

Thanks to my ghouls getting their butts kicked I charge the high priest with the wraiths that now can see him, and the knights and wrightking charge the flank of the other skeleton unit. The lord's unit turns to face the other flank of the king's skeletons.

Seeing that he is basically doomed, and vowing he wants a rematch, the TK player gives up.

Victory to the vampire counts! (6W 0L)

The enemy had been defeated. With very few losses the tomb kings had been given several damaging blows and now retreated. Lahboura was about to send the ghouls to chase them down when in a blast of light and sand the army of the tomb kings disappeared. She wanted to believe that they were defeated and gone, but Lahboura knew with the king still alive that they would be back.

Post game thoughts: Thanks to stopping some key charges I was able to get the jump on his units and take them out. A few luck rolls with the hand of dust helped a lot too. Plus something crazy happened... the knights not only lived to the end of the game, they actually killed stuff and did good!!! Killing the high priest was huge though and even though he still had his threemain blocks in good condition, his tomb guard wouldn't make it to combat and his skeletons were in big trouble. When he said he wanted a rematch I told him he had to beat the dark elve player first, and even though the DE were CRUSHING him in the first few turns, a killing blow and a overrun later, the tomb kings were ready for another fight! That's right, I have two battle reports for you!!! (Or at least I will once I get a drink and spend another hour typing...)

Malorian
13-04-2008, 05:21
Game 7

It was only a few hours before they came back. The sun was beginning to set in the semi-darkness the eyes of the tomb king could be seen burning with hate.

Their first battle had been easily won, but Lahboura knew that things could have gone horribly the other way. One thing was clear though, the only way he wasn't going to be a pain in her side is if she killed him, or died trying...

We used the same lists but the terrain was changed. We each had a hill (his was in the back left of his deployment zone, mine was ni the back right), and there was a string of trees that went down the left side of the board. There was a group of trees to the right too but it didn't really come into play.

We agreed on two things before the game:

1. My grave guard would fight it out with his tomb guard.
2. Our generals were going to throw hands.

He deployed his casket on the hill with one catapult. to the left of the trees he had his chariots w/ prince in front of his skeletons w/ GW prince and liche. In the clearing he had from left to right: a scorpian, tombguard w/ high priest, carrion, catapult(further back), king's skeletons, scorpian, and the other chariots.

I deployed the knights and wrightking on the left within the trees so I could see on either side. Then in the clearing from left to right I had: spear skeletons w/ mounted vampire, ghouls, stone cart, grave guard with bunker behind w/ necromancer and helm vampire, cart, ghouls w/ lord, cart, ghouls w/ book vampire, cairnwraiths.

Pre-game thoughts: Well this is it. I was worried about throughing my lord against his king before, but now that I knew what he had I was pretty sure I would crush him. There was no way I could just ignore his tomb guard and fact I would have to take them head on. I just hoped I could stop those chariots and scorpians again before they made too much trouble and if I got luck maybe I could run past him and take out his warmachines on the hill with my knights or even the mounted vampire.

He won the roll for first turn.


Turn 1 TK:

He moves his chariots and his scorpians, and the carrion fly to the middle of the field. His other units only move a bit up. In the magic phase his carrion fly to the right of mu bunker ghouls. The chariots on the left move into the string of trees in a bit of a small path through. He wanted to set them up so my knights couldn't see him, but he got careless and I could easily see the last chariot he moves. The scorpian charges into my lord's unit (obviously hoping for the easy killing blow before our general's meet). I fail to dipell the casket but thanks to my lord being in good position (I hadn't even thought of it when I placed him... I just wanted to square off against the king) I only lose 4 ghouls. In combat the scorpian gets only 1 hit, but rolls a 6 for killing blow... he is happy until I roll my 4+ ward and make it (thank god!). In reply my lord does three wounds to the scorpian and it crumbles. From this my general overruns 11 inches up (hello king...).

Turn 1 VC:

I pass stupidity, and always do this game. Lahboura and her ghouls charge into the kings unit. I forget to charge with the knights and instead simply move up so that they can't charge by, and if they want to charge me they will charge into the trees (hehe). The wraiths move up to block the chariots from hitting the lords flank, and the rest of the line moves up about 4 inches with the carts staying an inch back and the bunker turning towards the carrion. In the magic phase the necromancer miscasts (I was mocked with "common end of the magic phase!" but the necromancer only lost a wound and the rest of his powerdice, of which he had none anyway. I try to use the book on the wraiths but it is stopped and I roll a 1 so I can't use it anymore. I get hellish vigour on the carts. Lahboura gets her unit up to about 25 ghouls and that's about it. In combat the king stikes first and kills 4 ghouls. In return I do 2 wounds to the king but lose combat and a few ghouls.

Turn 2 TK:

The chariots sneak though the space to face the spear skeletons and ghouls, with the prince's skeletons moving up from behind. The scorpian turns to the flank of the knights. The tomb guard move up, and the chariots on the right try to move around combat. In the magic phase I fail to stop the charge of the prince's skeletons and they hit into my knights (double 1's). I also fail to stop the chariots after the high priest puts in his weight and they double charge the spear skeletons and the ghouls on the left. His catapults kill a few ghouls. In combat the prince kills 1 knight but that's it. In return I kill the lich and enough skeletons to barely win combat.The impact hits on the skeletons are massive and I lose about 10-12. I do a couple of wounds back but not enough to kill a chariot and I'm leave with 3 skeletons and a vampire in one unit, and 10ish ghouls in the other. King attacks my lord and dispite the odds does 2 wounds! I attack back and do nothing (hell I only hit with one and rolled a 1 to wound). I lose by a good deal and am down to about 13 ghouls against his 20ish skeletons.

Turn 2 VC:

Wraiths charge the chariots (I had stopped them from magically running away), and my bunker charged his carrion. In the magic phase my hand of dust was stopped and I rolled a 1 so it was gone. I got a wound back on the necromancer and rasied about 5 skeletons but I could't heal my lord or my lord's ghouls, and in doing so my lord has miscast (allowing him to cast one spell, of which he had none), and miscating with my book vampire ending with a double 1 and her going bye bye! In combat I wiped out the carrion, and brought the chariots down to 1 with my wraiths. I killed 1 chariot and even ended up winning combat by 1 against the prince's chariots (although the prince had killed 3 skeletons). In the other combat the prince made a challenge and my wrightlord accepted, and since he had a great weapon I went first. Two hit, and of those two 1 wounded and the other killing blowed him!!! Other than that I killed a few skeletons and a couple crumbled (still about 12 of them).

Turn 3 TK:

Scorpian charge into the flank of the knights. Tomb guard move up and reform to be 6 wide, and the high lich flies out. In the magic phase the tomb guard charge into my grave guard and he tries to heal his king but I stop him. Catapults kill a few ghouls in the unit that just lost a vampire and the far corpse cart is destroyed. In combat the wraiths finish off the chariots on the right. The WS6 grave guard and tomb guard kill only 1 of each ofther and it's a tie. The chariots don't kill too many and now only the prince is left. The scorpian wiffs all it's attacks and after I kill a few skeletons they lose by three and the scorpian crubles 2 wounds. I make a challenge with Lahboura and the tomb kings accepts it. The king goes first and doesn't wound me and in return I cause two wounds and kill him (passing my Ld test for the curse). Even though I kill the king I still lose combat by 1.

Turn 3 VC:

Wraiths charge into the rear of the skeletons, and the right cart charges into the tombguard. Ghouls on the right start moving to the flank of the tomb guard. In the magic phase all attepts to heal my lord are stopped, although I raise a lot of skeletons. In combat the corpse cart does 0 wounds to the tomb guard (they never do for the whole game... although that is to be expected. The elite infantry do a couple wounds to each other and I lose by 1, with the cart making it's regen. Prince on the chariot kills some ghouls but crumbles, but from the curse my ghouls all die too. The scorpian still can't get passed they knights armor and after some skeletons are killed both the skeletons and the scorpian crumble to nothing. Thanks to wraiths killing 10 models, Lahboura killing 3 and the ghouls killing 2, the skeletons crumble to nothing.

Turn 4 TK:

With not much to move the high priest flies behind my lords unit (only lord and 8 ghouls now), and tries to finish it off, but I stop most of the magic and a catapult misfires and can't shoot this turn or the next. The combat goes on between the grave guard and the tomb guard and the tomb guard are slowly winning. They kill enough to win by two and my cart takes a wound (I'm down to about 12 GG fighting his 20ish TG).

Turn 4 VC:

Knights move up towards the catapult and casket. Wraiths move towards the other catapult. Lord turns towadrs the high priest. Spear skelatons turn to one flank of the GG which the ghouls move to the other. I raise almost all of my grave guard back, but still can't heal my lord (he threatens he will finish her off with the high priest...). I make a useless unit of zombies for fun. In combat I finally win combat but not by much.

Turn 5 TK:

High priest flies away (so much for the threat) and I stop him from raising the tomb guard. The catapult kills a knight. In combat I manage to win again but there is going very slow (those timb guard are a hard nut to crack). There is now 14 TG fighting 17ish GG and a wounded cart. (As a side note, those tomb guard got a killing blow every combat phase).

Turn 5 VC:

Knights charge the catapult and the wraiths charge the other catapult. The tomb guard are hit on both flanks and on the front by the other corpse cart. In the magic phase I finally heal my lord and raise some ghouls in her unit, plus I make another useless zombie unit just for fun. In combat obviously both catapults are wiped out and knights overrun into casket. The tombguard champ makes a challenge that my grave guard champ accepts but they don't hurt each other. In fact no one kills a singe tomb guard and they only loss by 1 after they are done hitting me back...

Turn 6 TK:

High priest goes behind tombguard. He tries to raise them but I stop him. He gets off smitting on the casket and I then learn they have killing blow great weapons!!! He kills two knights. In combat the lich makes a challenge and my wrightking accepts, and the priest dies from 1 wound from the rider and the horse each. The guard are killed. I finally pull ahead in the big combat killing his champ and several others bring him down to 6 models.

Turn 6 VC:

Nothing worth doing but fight. The tomb guard make a last stand and kill another grave guard, but they all crumble and the only tomb king model left is the high priest.

Victory fot the vampire counts! (7W-0L)

Limping Lahboura looked over the battle field. The entire enemy army had been wiped out save for a shifty mage who quickly flew away (off the tell the high king about the failure no doubt). Once again her army was left with very little losses, and apart from a handmaiden who's mid would have to be saved from whatever deamon had crawled inside, they were almost ready to march on, ready to take on the next challenge.

Post-game thoughts: This one didn't really come down to me stopping any one magic phase and more about each combat slowly going in my favour (even if it did take five units to finish off the tomb guard).

Things learned:
-That casket/staff combo is deadly.
-I don't like having to roll on two dice all the time... I keep miscasting...
-Tombguard are crazy tough... I think the plan that included ignoring them worked the best, although that required them being placed way off on the far side of the board.

Thanks for reading : )

SevenSins
13-04-2008, 09:31
and two for two!
VC vs TK seems to end in lots of grinding and slow crumbling :)
congrats!

Still waiting for the fat guys to eat your ghouls :D

senorcardgage
13-04-2008, 14:24
Jeeze, how much can you mis-cast?!?

Malorian
17-04-2008, 12:22
Game 8: The return of Malus Darkblade

3000 VC vs 3000 DE

When she had left him alive she knew he would be back, but she didn't know he would be leading an even bigger army.

The army of Malus Darkblade stood across her in the field they had mutually agreed to settle the score. As before he lead a large unit of knights and was backed up by massive amounts of shooting, but this time there was also a dragon.

Lahboura had seen dragons before, but had never faced them in battle.

As she contemplated killing the dragon or Malus first, the dark elves attacked.


Since I wasn't playing a list specifically designed to beat mine I went back to my all-comers list.

My spells:

Lahboura(lord)-gaze of nagash, vanhels, curse of years
helm vampire-curse of years
book vampire-gaze of nagash
mounted vampire- raise dead
necromancer- raise dead

The DE list:

Malus Darkblade
Highborn on dragon w/venom sword, armor of darkness
Lvl 2 sorceress w/ dispel scrolls (chill wind, black horror)
Lvl 2 sorceress w/ dispel scrolls (chill wind, word of pain)

10 warriors w/ shields, crossbows X 4
20 witchelves w/ full command, banner of murder, rune of khaine

10 cold one knights w/ full command
cold one chariot
5 shades

RBT X 4


The board was 4X6. We both had a big hill at the back of our deployment zone and there was a small hill to the right of center. ON the left flank there were two groups of trees (the one closest to me was fairly small).

I put the wraiths behins the hill on the left, then in the clearing from left to right I put: cart (balefire), ghouls w/ lord, cart (stone), ghouls w/ wightking behind which was the bunker with the necromancer and the mounted vampire, cart (balefire), ghouls. To the right up them, and behind the hill I put my black knights, and to their their right were the graveguard w/ helm vampire, and to their right the skeletons w/ book vampire.

His repeater bolt throwers were on the top of the hill with the crossbowmen in front (2 tier hill) and the mages in the out side units. To the left of the hill there were the witches and the shades scouting into the trees. To the right there was the chariot and then the knights w/ Malus Darkblade, and on the far right flank was the dragon.

Pre-game movement: Ghouls march up.

Pre-game thoughts: The dragon scares me. It was the one from reaper and looked great and I had seen him use it against the tomb king player. Basically if that highborn got to my general she was dead, so I planned to tie him up with the skeletons and/or graveguard. The wriaths would easily deal with the witches, but I'd have to make sure they didn't run past. Malus would be a problem as I couldn't hope for a lucky charge from my wraiths this time. Best I could do is tie them up and hit them from the flank. Hopefully Lahboura can also take care of Malus, but I'll try to get him with the wright king first.

DE wins roll for first turn.


Turn 1 DE:

Both units roll double 1's for stupidity test (Is this a sign of things to come?).The witches, chariot and knights move a bit up and the dragon flies to the right flank of my skeletons. The magic phase is shut down. Dragon breaths fire on the skeletons and kills 6. All units of crossbowmen fire into the center unit of ghouls w/ wightking and I'm down to 6 ghouls and the wightking (I figure he was trying to get me under 5 models and then snipe the wightking with a RBT). The RBTs go to work on the corpse carts but thanks to bad rolls to hit and good regen saves I don't take a wound.

Turn 1 VC:

Lahboura passes stupidity test and does so for the rest of the game. Wraiths move up bewteen the two woods. The line moves up but not very far giving the corpse carts a chance to catch up and hopefully staying out of range of the dark elve combat units. Mounted vampire moves into the left ghouls unit with the lord. The knights move up but stay behind the hill and angle them selves to if the cold one knights hit my ghouls, I can hit their flank. I'm showing my knight's flank to the dragon, but I have plans for the dragon as the skeletons turn to face him. In the magic phase I make a unit of zombies infront of the witches to angle them harmlessly between my cart and my wraiths. I make another unit of zombies infront of the cold one knights to angle them so that when they overrun they will show their flank to my main units. I raise the lost skeletons and the center unit of ghouls is raised to about 19 and the right unit to about 18. All three carts get hellish vigour off, and gaze of nagash kills two crossbowmen from the right unit. Gaze of nagash then kills 7 witches. I use rod of flamming death on the shades and luckily manage to wipe them out. Then with the DE player having no more dice I use the book to try and charge the dragon... dispel scroll... crap...

Turn 2 DE:

Both units pass stupidity. Witches charge the zombies infront of them. So does the coldone knights and the chariot. The dragon hits the flank of the knights. Magic phase is shut down. All crossbowmen target center unit again and bring it down to five models (oh oh). Then the RBTs shoot but instead of sniping out the wigthking, they simply all multi-fire, and thanks to some bad rolls on his part and some good saves on my wightking, I'm left with the ghast and the wightking. In combat Malus drinks the potion and both zombat units are slaughtered. The witches only move up 4 so wraiths are on the front arc, and the knights roll high and hit my ghast and wightking (double oh oh) with the chariot moving between his knights and his witches.The dragon (highborn can't hit the side of a barn) kills 3 models and 2 more crumble.

Turn 2 VC:

Wraiths charge front of witches (I was tempted to charge the chariot and overrun into the knights, but if the chariot fled I would have been screwed). The ghouls on the left with Lahboura charge into the front of the knights, while the right ghouls hit the knights flank. Skeleton's move to dragons flank and graveguard turn to be ready to take a charge from the dragon. Carts shuffle a bit to cover more area. In the magic phase I mage a unit of zombies behind the knights (so if they run they are basically auto-caught). I then raise several ghouls in the lord's unit to make sure that is the highest unit strength when he runs (about 23 strong). He tries to stop the carts but they go through again. He also tries to stop hand of dust but fails again (bunch of 1's to dispel on single dice) and I kill six cold one knights! The book trying to get the skeletons into the dragon is scrolled , and my attempt to venhels them into combat is scrolled too (DAMN THOSE SCROLLS!). In combat the witches are slaughtered and they run and get away, but being only 4 strong they are basically pointless and are removed. Dragon finished off the knights. In the big combat I make a challenge with my lone ghast and it is taken by the cold one knight champ who after making two saves kills the ghast. My vampires kill all the knights except the champ in the challenge. My wightkin attacks Malus and hits once, but fails to wound (would have given my leg for a 6) and Malus does 2 wounds back to the wightking (we then proceed to check the book as he can't believe wightkings have 3 wounds... hehe). The WS 6 ghouls on the flank can't wound Malus. I win combat by a lot (he was minus 6 or something) but he rolls double 1's and holds on.

Turn 3 DE:

Chariots charges into front of lord's unit, and dragon charges into rear of ghouls on the knight's flank. The sorcerer gets irresistable force with chill wind and does one wound to a wraith. In the shooting phase the crossbowmen shoot down all the zombies behind the knights and the RBTs kill the corpsecart on the left. In combat he makes a challenge with Malus and I accept with the wightking and make the ghouls on the flank WS 6. The chariot kills 3 ghouls with impact hits. Try as I might I only cause 3 wounds to the chariot and my lord can't even kill the knight champ. The wightking hits twice... but no wounds (arrrghh) and is killed in good measure. The ghouls on the flank send all their attacks towards the highborn but although I cause 3 wounds, his 2+ save saves them all (I knew he had the venom sword, but I didn't know about the armor). In return he kills several ghouls and I lose combat by 5. I'm left with 7 ghouls on the flank and 12 ghouls in the lord's unit.

Turn 3 VC:

Wriaths can't march and move 6 inches towards the enemy hill (about 10 inches away fron the closest crossbow unit). Grave guard turn towards dragons rear and skeletons start marching across the hill towards the rear of the dragon as well. Both carts go off and I raise a bunch of ghouls (Ghouls on the flank are 15 strong and the lord's ghouls are back up to 20. The book to make the grave guard charge the now flank of the dragon (due to the ghoul unit getting bigger) is scrolled and vanhels is stopped. I make a unit of zombies in the back of my deployment zone just to hold the quarter when/if I move up. I get curse of years on the dragon but it is stopped. In combat Malus makes a challenge. I think about taking it with my lord, but I would have to go through two rounds of combat before I could heal so I take it with the ghast from the flanking unit. Malus does 5 wounds to the poor ghast. I finish off the chariot but again I can't kill the knight champ (Lahboura actually hit this time but he made both 5+ armor saves) the champ kills a ghoul and the dragon kills several from the flanking unit and I lose combat by 1.

Turn 4 DE:

Sorcerers move out of front units and join the warmachines. He gets off black horror with irresistable force and kills 1 wraith. Shooting kills the stone cart and 1 graveguard. Malus once again makes a challenge and this time my lord takes it. My attacks against Malus are all saved and he caused 3 wounds to me but my ward saves one of them. The knight champ, now only fighting ghouls fights on and kills another ghoul. The dragon and highborn kill more ghouls and I end up losing combat by four.

Turn 4 VC:

Wriaths charge the right most crossbowmen unit, he passes his terror test and holds (he doesn't want to flee and cause several panic tests. The grave guard charge the flank of the dragon, and the skeletons move towards the rear. I move the mounted vampire in the unit to be in base to base with the knight champ. In the magic phase I heal by lord, raise my ghouls back up to about 15 and 20 and book the skeletons into the dragon's rear (it had to work eventually). In combat I realize I forgot to use my cart so Malus goes first and causes 3 wounds, 1 of which is stopped by the ward save again. In return Lahboura does 2 wounds back to Malus. The mounted vampire kills the knight champ. The grave guard killing blow the highborn, but none of the other attacks harm the dragon. (Dragon passed monster reaction test). Dragon kills two grave guard. I win combat and both Malus and the dragon fail their break test and are both caught.

Before we even do the wraith combat the DE player gives up.

Victory to the vampire counts! (8W 0L)

With Malus caught and the dragon defeated Lahboura wasn't surprised to see the rest of the army flee (with the wraiths hot on their trail). She would have to decide what to do with Malus. Simply kill him? Ransom him back to the dark elves? Turn him into a wightking? On another note, should she spend her energy turning the dragon into a zombie?...

But there was plenty of time to decide that. For now the day was hers (again) and she felt like it was time to head back into town. Killing armies with her horde of ghouls was fun, but she felt like it was time for some more civilized entertainment.


Post-game thoughts: What can I say, my magic worked out great and basically everything went to plan. It would have been nice to tie up that dragon earlier but really the knights held him up long enough for everything to fall into place. A good game, just too bad it was cut short again, and I'm glad that venom blade never made it's way to my lord :D

Thanks for reading.

Malorian
24-04-2008, 01:31
Game 9

I don't know if you know this but we're a bit snowed in here up in Fort McMurray due to a freak snow storm. I braved the roads however to get a game in (I love warhammer that much;)).

When I got there it turned out no one was willing to brave the storm and there was just my regular wood elve opponent.

What was worse was that she refused to play! She didn't want to take on my vampires again... so with that I packed up and went home, braving the storm again.

Guess the vampires are making too good of a name for themselves...


Lahboura, lazily sipping wine while reading a book regarding dwarfs, was interupted by one of her ghouls. In a horrible fashion the creature did it's best to speak and told her that the wood elves had been hunting the ghouls while they hid in the forest.

Annoyed Lahboura put down her glass and book and marched to the edge of the woods.

There was silience... the noise finally came but instead of the woodelves charging out to battle there only came her ghouls. They told her that appearently the woodelves were fleeing! After their several defeats they dare not face her again.

With a smile she spun around and returned to her book.

(Sorry no battle report today... maybe on saturday...)

123DeMaere
24-04-2008, 04:25
Game 9

(Sorry no battle report today... maybe on saturday...)


Maybe saturday?? Maybe? Maybe a Empire player might shove a Steam tank up your ass... you know,there is alot of snow but you got to DRIVE there, when your walking in 2 feet of snow you are normally late.

So for Saturday consider yourself challenged!!

The only question I need to know from the forum is do they want Kurt to kill your army or Karl?? ( I only get two lords and I like one to be a wizard lord so you poor folks have to pick one).

Peegore
24-04-2008, 07:47
I'd say at W/L of 8/0, Malorian needs a dose of Karl-stank ;)

As for people not wanting to play his VC's.... the sheer volume of wins attached to the army is obviously a factor. And this reaction in my experience isn't uncommon. Same happened when 6th ed came out and my gunline 'biased' ( it wasn't gunline heavy, honest ) Empire had at least an 8/0 record. I changed to a more infantry/combat block orientated list and the games started rolling in...

Not saying anyone SHOULD change their lists to accomodate other players, but when the opposition starts to dry up, only one person can remedy this...

Otherwise, well done anyway to Malorian for a good string of wins, and a nice compilation of battle reports!

EvC
24-04-2008, 11:44
In that situation, I'd have offered to switch armies with my opponent. Fun for everyone!

I can see this kind of thing happening more and more though. Apart from one silly game where I took a Zombie Dragon and fought the far superior Star Dragon, I've yet to lose a proper 2000/2250 points game with the new book. A good dozen wins, however, and one of my regular opponents is getting increasingly frustrated (especially when I roll 11s and 12s for my Banshee screams ;) ).

Boss_Salvage
24-04-2008, 12:23
Nice battle against the Dark Elves, well stomped. Pity about the wood elf player declining to lose again :rolleyes: but I don't know if I can blame her totally :p

- Salvage

Malorian
24-04-2008, 13:48
Maybe saturday?? Maybe? Maybe a Empire player might shove a Steam tank up your ass... you know,there is alot of snow but you got to DRIVE there, when your walking in 2 feet of snow you are normally late.

So for Saturday consider yourself challenged!!

The only question I need to know from the forum is do they want Kurt to kill your army or Karl?? ( I only get two lords and I like one to be a wizard lord so you poor folks have to pick one).

Kurt would make more sense story wise, although it would be kind of a let down if I kill my arch enemy so soon :evilgrin:

Malorian
27-04-2008, 04:55
Game 9: Karl comes to town...

Ever since the woodelves fled and left ehr army alone things were going well for Lahboura. Every day more and more ghouls came to her call and every day her hold on the town grew stonger. But that was about to end.

The emperor of the Empire, Karl Franz, was speaking to a pair a diplomats when he was interupted. It was a representative from the wood elves, and such a rare event took his attentions completely. The man (or woman, as it was hard to tell since the figure being that the person was completely covered in a long robe) told the emperor about a powerful vampire that had taken root in a near by town, and how the wood elves would have much gratitude if the vampier was destroyed.

Within the day the army was marching and at it's head Karl Frans, with Ghal Maraz in hand, riding his faithful griffin.

Lahboura could feel him coming. He was strong, and the power from his weapon worried even her. This day could be her last, but she still was undefeated in battle, and the emperor would pay dearly if he expected victory this day


The empire army:

Karl Franz w/ Ghal Maraz on griffin
Arch lector w w/ full plate, shield, some magical weapon amd armor.
lvl 2 mage w/ luck stone, dispel scroll (heavens)
lvl 2 mage w/ seal thing that is a dispel scroll and I forget the spell on a 4+ (heavens)
lvl 2 mage w/ 2 dispel scrolls (heavens)
*There might have been more stuff but I'm not sure*

10 knights w/ full command
10 handgunners
10 handgunners
10 handgunners
20 flagellants
10 huntsmen

great cannon
great cannon
5 outriders

rocket battery
steam tank

I used my standard 3000 list found on the first page.
steam tank

The board was 4X6 (although we only used two thirds of it), on the left center there was a large group of trees. He had a long 2 stage hill at the back of his deployment zone, and there was another hill just right of center of the board.

He deployed his war machines on the top of the hill (rocket on the left). In frnot of them on the next stage of the hill were two handgunner units deployed 5X2 with the mages hixes in between. On the left of the hill behind the trees was the other unit of handgunners in one long line facing towards the center. To their right in front of the hill were the outriders, then the flagellants, then the knights (w/ arch lector), stank, Karl Franz.

On the left flank I put a unit of ghouls w/ mounted vampire to go around the left side of the trees. The knights behind the trees. Then from left to right I had a balefire cart, ghouls, bale fire cart, grave guard w/ wight king, stone cart, ghouls w/ book vampier, wraiths behind the hill, skeletons w/ helm vampire as behind the hill. Behind the grave guard was the bunker w/ the necromancer and Lahboura.

Huntsmen scouted into the trees on the left.

Pre-game movement: Only ghouls on the left march up.

Pre-game thoughts: I did not have a good feeling about this (although I was amazed at how small his army was). Karl Franz is crazy and there is absolutely no way my lord can stand up to him. Obviously the best thing to do would be to tie him down with zombies but that wasn't going to happen if he was smart. I would just have to hide. But with all his powerful units on the right flank I was free to run my ghouls and knights up the left flank to take out his units on the hill. The wraiths could take on the the stank or the knights if they had too, but I would have to hol back because I didn't want to be hit by too many charges too fast. I knew he had that thing that could stop my lord casting IoN on a 4+, I just had to hope he failed...

I won the roll for first turn.


Turn 1 VC:

Lahboura passed her stupidity and always did. Ghouls on left flank are marched blocked, but move up. Knights move into woods in front of archers. Wraiths, skeletons and ghouls on the right move up behind the hill. Lahboura moves to center ghouls (just right of the woods). the rest of my line moves a bit up, but not much (don't want to get charged). Ih the magic phase the necromancer makes a unit of zombies to the left fo the hill setup to redirect a charge from either the knights, stank, emperor to the center. I decide to get it over will and try and raise some ghouls, he uses the seal thing and I lose the spell (crap). All my carts go through, and always do. I try to use rod of flaming death on the handgunners behind the trees but it is dispelled and I roll a 1 so it can't be used again. I do get gaze of nagash on them and kill 5. Then I make a unit of 7 zombies besides them. I try and vanhels the knights into the huntsmen but it is stopped. I then raise the original zombie unit up to 28 models. He passes panic test on handgunners.

Turn 1 Empire:

Steamtank makes 5 steam points and slams into zombies. Remaining 5 handgunners turn towards 7 zombies. Karl Franz flies to the left of the outriders to be straight across from Lahboura. Huntsmen move to the right of the forest. In the magic phase the only things that goes through is the arch lector being about to reroll in combat. His warmahcines all scatter and do nothing. His stooting is all at the corpse carts and all I lose is 1 wound off the left cart. He forgets to shoot with the huntsmen. In combat he kills 13 zombies, 9 more crumble, leaving me with 6.

Turn 2 VC:

The wounded cart charges the huntsmen and doesn't lose any wounds to stand and shoot. The wraiths charge the flank of the stank. The 7 zombies move towadrs the rocket batetry while the ghouls move up move up and out of the arc of the emperor. The knights move up to the edge of the woods. With the emperor on the other side of the board I moved up the skeletons and ghouls on the right flank onto the hill, and Lahboura runs over to join the ghoul unit. I move up the right cart so there is no for the emperor room to charge the cart and no room for him to charge the ghouls. The rest fo the units set up and get ready to take the pain. In the magic phase I try to his his mages with gaze of nagash, but it's all stopped. I get vanhels off on my skeletons and the move up (the knights can't charge them because they are flush with the fanatics and can't wheel). Bunker moves back. In combat I do three wounds to the stank, and the cart kills 1 huntsmen for a tie.

Turn 2 Empire:

Steam tank makes 3 steam points. Karl Franz charges the grave guard. The 5 handgunners charge the flank of the 7 ghouls. The knights charge the flank of the wraiths while the outriders charge the flank of the zombies. The flagellants turn to deal with the skeletons. Mages move around to get aim at the carts. The magic phase is shut down. The cannons miss the carts and kill 1 ghoul each while the rocket battery misfires and can't shoot. The only damage from shooting is the handgunners doing a wound to the stone cart on the right. The left handgunenrs on hill shoot at the knights and are 17 inches away (guess I know who I'm going to charge), but do no damage. In combat I don't kill anything and the huntsmen win by 1, but I make my regen on the crumble. The handgunners kill 2 zombies and a few more crumble. Steam tank kills 3 zombies, one of the remaining ones kills an outrider (hehe), a WS6 wraith kills 2 knights, and I do two more wounds to the stank. In return his outriders kill 2 zombies and his arch lector does a wound to a wraith. The last zombie crumbles and I'm left with 3 wraiths. I make a challenge with the graveguard champ, who is slaughtered but I win combat, although the emperor holds.

Turn 3 VC:

Ghouls on the left charge the flank of the 5 handgunners. The knights charge the handgunners on the hill and don't take any loses from stand and shoot. I charge the outriders with the center ghouls, but they flee and get away (hopping over the fanatics). The skeletons charge the flank of the knights. The ghouls on the right move up. In the magic phase I make a small unit of zombies in the back of my left deployment zone just to hold the quarter. My curse of years on the knights is dispelled as is my gaze of nagash's on his mages again. I do get vanhels off on the skeletons (reroll to hit) and vanhels on Lahboura to charge her into the knights. I raise the zombies fighting the handgunners to 12. I also get hand of dust off from the wight king on the emperor and although I do nothing to the emperor, his griffin is down to 1 wound. In combat the 5 handgunners are easily beaten. The handgunners on the hill are also crushed with causes the right cannon to run off the board, and the handgunners to the right panic and run to the right through the mages and cause 2 of them to panic and run. I overrun into the remaining cannon. (At this point he wanted to give up and have a rematch, but with no time for a rematch we kept going.) for some stupid reason I make a challenge with my wightking and he is totally smashed and a few grave guard crumble. The corpse cart kills 1 and draws combat. Lahboura makes a challenge, which the arch lector accepts and I do 3 wounds even though he can reroll his armor saves. No wounds are done to the stank, but the other vampire kills a knight and that's enough to send them running. The skeletons don't catch them, but Labhoura does and runs into the flank of the flagellants (all of a sudden the empire player wants to keep playing for sure).

Turn 3 Empire: (he can't believe it's only turn three)

The stank makes 1 steam point. The outriders, 1 mage, and handgunners rally, but 1 mage runs off the board. Magic phase is shut down. Rocket battery hits the center ghouls and kills 5. Stank uses steam blast on the skeletons and kills 3. In combat the knights killed the cannon and ran off the board. The corpse cart kills a huntsmen, but it also takes a wound. Karl Franz kills 4 grave guard and some crumble. I do another wound or so to the stank. Flagalants do the end is near and lose 2 models. Lahboura doesn't kill much and loses combat by 4 and I lose 2 wounds.

Turn 4 VC:

Zombies and mounted vampire charge the rocket battery but it fails it's fear test and runs off the board. Skeletons charge into the flagellants. Ghouls move up. Knights come back onto the board and face the rear of the flagellants. In the magic phase I heal Lahboura and the cart fighting the huntsmen. In combat the cart kills 3 huntsmen and they run and are caught by the cart. I kill a bunch of flagellants but they are unbreakable. The emperor kills two or three grave guard, but I finish off the griffin, and it's drawn combat (I win because of musician) but he holds. I do a wound to the stank with the wraiths.

Turn 4 Empire:

Outriders charge the flank of the skeletons. Magic phase is shut down. Handgunners shoot at stone cart and finish it off. In combat Karl Fanz kills some more and I'm now down to three grave guard. The outriders kill two skeletons and laboura kills a few. I lose combat by four again, and Lahboura is down to 1 wound again.

Turn 5 VC:

Knights charge the flank of the flagellants. Ghouls on the right charge into the handgunners. The mounted vampire moves behind the emperor (nothing to do with him, just to heal). In the magic phase I heal Lahboura, I bring the grave guard back up to 20, and I get the dead skeletnos back. In combat a Karl Franz kills 3 grave guard, loses, but holds. The flagellants are brought down to six models and the outriders run off the board. This causes another mage to run off the board. (To be honest I have no idea what happened to the third mage... maybe he got lost in the dead pile.) Hangunners are beaten and run off the table.

Turn 5 Empire:

(Going straight to combat) The stank is finally destroyed by the wraiths (this is the first time I have EVER destroyed one). All the flagellants are killed. The emperor makes a challenge, and the champ refuses. He takes a wound and then kills a couple and then runs, but the grave guard can't catch him.

Turn 6 VC:

Lahboura charges the Emperor, who is forced to keep fleeing, and he rnus 11 inches into the forest making Lahboura fail the charge.

Turn 6 Empire:

Karl Franz rallies in the forest.

Victory for the vampire counts!!! (9W 0L)


The entire empire army had been slaughtered, and even Lahboura couldn't believe it. She had planned to make her last stand here, and now she ruled the battle field.

In the corner of her eye she saw the Emperor fleeing, with the grave guard right behind him. In a mad dash she came at him, sword drawn, but before she could draw blood the emperor was surrounded by a sparkling haze and was spirited away. Maybe it was an empire mage that had avoided death, or maybe the woodelves were at work, but final victory had been stolen from her.

Still she couldn't complain. If the greastest man the Empire had to offer cuold barely even scratch her mightly army, then the world was hers. All she had to do know was wait for the emperor to regain his strength and gather another army to face her...


Post-game thoughts: Well I really didn't see this coming, I mean this was a complete wipe out. All he killed was the wightlord, a unit of zombies, and a corpse cart. In return I had killed everything except the emperor (minus the mount) and maybe a mage. I think it just came down to him putting his stank just where I wanted it, not using Karl Fraz right, and leaving the whole left side open for me to walk up and wipe out his units on the hill. For the last few turns I didn't even move most of my units because there was nothing for them to do (although I wish I would have put one behind the emperor).

He wants a rematch on wednesday, so maybe it will go differently... (as in maybe Lahboura won't lose the ability to cast IoN ;))

Thanks for reading.

Asfaloth
27-04-2008, 09:10
As always very nice report! Good use of the wraiths, they are one of my favourite units.

I quite don't like the Empire army with almost no state troops. I found it surprising you were able to heal your Vampire Lady twice with her not being able to cast IoN and the Empire player having quite a few dispel dice and scrolls.

Malorian
27-04-2008, 14:30
He had used up his scrolls to stop the gaze of nagash and curse of years on his knights.

It was the other vampires that healed her (I had 8 dice to do it with the first time. and 11 the second time).

Glad you liked it : )

Baindread
29-04-2008, 01:12
Would you look at that? The new un-overpowered VC have a 9-0 winning streak. :rolleyes:

Not trying to take anything away from you, you play well. It´s more of a response to the whole "VC isn't overpowered and never have been, it's just new-army-syndrome"-bit which gets tired fast.

As a side note, I have played plenty of games both against and with VC, both the old and new book. As well as every other army in WH (Except of course Chaos Dwarves and Dogs of war).

Emeraldw
29-04-2008, 01:41
Malorian in your honest opinion, do you feel that Vampire Counts are over the top? I played a 2k game against Vampire Counts twice. Once ending in a draw, once in a Massacare for the other guy. Both times it came down to his magic phase more or less. Hell, thanks to him, I've started taking 7 Dispel dice (with that re roll wand) and it still isn't enough to stop my friends 12 power dice, especially those crucial Van Hels (a charge spell should not be recastable like that I feel) and thats not including those bound items he has.

To be honest I feel like the army was made with the intention a VC opponent will take vast amounts of dispel dice to stop that devastating magic phase, if you don't it feels like you'll get overwhelmed.

soots
29-04-2008, 02:00
Interesting report. Felt very lobsided and prolly was.

Just to point out. I noticed those GG with Invoc are absolutely Unstoppable. Unkillable. Its like he spent the whole game massacring them with Karl, and then you said ok, thats enuf, and threw a couple of invocs and negated everything he did.

Malorian
29-04-2008, 02:32
To Braindead and Emeraldw: I may have a 9-0 record, but then again I have good records for all my armies. My ogres are 13W-3L-1T, and I don't think anyone is claiming ogres are overpowered.

I'm really liking the vampire counts because 1. I'm a defensive player and so raising my troops and working them down is my kind of thing, and 2. They don't take leadership tests. I fail the worst leadership tests so to take that away is a god send.

The only thing I don't like about VC is the feeling of being trapped. I'm not very fast and I usually am the one getting charged (vanhels is nice, but it is usually stopped). In the game against Karl Franz I thought I was toast because there was no place I could hide and there was almost no chance I could go more than a round in combat with him with my lord. Luckily my opponent played him defensively, made a poor charge, and so I was fine.

In the beginning it seemed my back was always to the ropes and I only pulled a victory in the end, but now that I'm getting used to it and using spells other than just IoN I'm finding it a lot easier.

This weekend I'm going to a tournament and I'm not bringing vampires, I'm bringing my woodelves (which have zero magic). I'm sure in a tournament setting everyone will be ready for the new VC and will be decked out with all the magic defense they can muster. You can use a dispel scroll on gaze of nagash, but you can't scroll hail of doom arrow ; )

To Soots: The GG did great in that game. Keep in mind I kept them at WS6 so they were only being hit on 4+ (which helped a lot), but even I was amazed how easy it was to bring them back to full strength. The only thing is that had he only killed a few more they would have been wiped out and I would have been in trouble.

123DeMaere
29-04-2008, 04:20
Having a hand in the report(I'm the empire player) I will fully admit I made two massive error(mainly with karl). we'll see how your list does. I do think the vampire counts can be beaten, I just don't like them because they are no fun to play against. I'm really waiting for the FAQ(for about... 7 different reasons.)


And to be fair though Malorian... I never turst your win record, you beat me fairly(because I was a idiot) but your the kinda guy who will play a new person and count it. You beat Kat how many times? and she been playing for 2 or 3 months?? She also has the models so she should be playing smaller games. I do agrue that the new VC are over-powered... then again to counter that I just change my list to inculde broken models so I can't really talk.

Malorian
29-04-2008, 12:16
123DeMaere: Then again, you've beaten me as many times as Kat, so what does that say about you? ; )

For my ogre kingdoms I have already stated they are currently 13W-3L-1T. Of those it breaks down into:

Brets: 1W-0L
LM: 3W-0L
Orks: 0W-0L-1T
Tomb kinkgs: 2W-2L
HE: 1W-1L
Ogres: 1W-0L
Empire: 1W-0L
WE: 2W-0L
DE: 2W-0L

As you can see, very little of that is against woodelves.

I stand by my records and will take on anyone who wants a game. Be it a TK army designed to beat me, a DE army full of magic and warmachines, and empire army full of even more warmachines, a stank, and either Kurt or Karl, or anything else.

Some how, no matter who I play I almost always end up on top (or at least I don't lose.)

So far, with all my armies I have a record of 79W-15L-15T, and that includes my first games were a I lost a lot.

Edit: I'm thinking on wednesday we should trade armies. You use my vampire counts and I'll use your empire list. What do you say to that?

EvC
29-04-2008, 14:06
You do seem to play against opponents who seem to be a little limited tactically, to say the least ;) Charging Karl Franz into the Grave Guard was absolute suicide, if you'd gotten off Vanhels Danse on them, you'd have very likely Killing Blow-ed him.

To be honest, I couldn't possibly enjoy playing with a list like yours. 23 power dice (equivalent)? Against new players? Maybe consider toning it down, sounds like these games aren't all that fun. Well, maybe they are if your idea of fun is crushing enemies with ease, but I prefer a challenge. Though 123DM deserved to lose for not taking any state troops ;)

Malorian
29-04-2008, 14:43
I went through all this before. When I started playing brets and winning over and over everyone told me that it was because brets are broken. So I started ogre kingdoms, an army that the majority of people agree is weak, and I still kept beating people.

My group is very big into magic and shooting. It's not uncommon to be against 4 warmachines and at least a lord mage and 2 hero mages. So if the group decides we are going to scale back our use of magic and shooting I would be all for it, but I'm guessing they won't want to be changing their lists either.

Peegore
29-04-2008, 15:08
In Malorian's defence, I don't see any point knocking how he does things. I myself earlier mentioned if players get sick of facing you and your army, then it may be time to change things a little in your own army.

BUT, his 2000pts and 3000pts lists, apart from using a large core of ghouls ( which I think is quite interesting and themed in itself ) should look very familiar to vamp players and non-players alaike. And 14+3bound @ 2000pts/ 17+6bound @ 3000pts.... not that unusual either.

Unless he intentionally makes his army, well, crap or takes it 'easy' on his opponents, waddaya do? If the opponents are new, they have to learn somehow. usually the hard way. I'd possibly point out why I won, what I think doesn't work/does work in their armies etc.

As for veteran opponents, well they should suck it up and try, try again.

Bottom line... maybe Malorian could change his army composition at character level, but the owness is also on the opponents to just keep at it.

P.S. As for the Empire list he fought.... Min/Maxing with the Franz/stank list... you win big, you lose big. as EvC touches on, you drop the state troops, you pay the price...

SevenSins
29-04-2008, 18:42
another nice rep, and kicking a very elitish empire list (as mentioned where were the state troops?)
Would love to hear how it goes at the tourney with your no-magic WE.
You do have a very good win-loose ratio, I'll do you the honor of blaming skill rather than broken lists :)
(me I'm more the other way, making fast, stupid decicions and doing stuff I think will "look cool", not to good in tourneys as you may imagine...)

Rant over, Keep 'em coming!!

Feefait
29-04-2008, 19:47
In Malorian's defence, I don't see any point knocking how he does things. I myself earlier mentioned if players get sick of facing you and your army, then it may be time to change things a little in your own army.

BUT, his 2000pts and 3000pts lists, apart from using a large core of ghouls ( which I think is quite interesting and themed in itself ) should look very familiar to vamp players and non-players alaike. And 14+3bound @ 2000pts/ 17+6bound @ 3000pts.... not that unusual either.

Unless he intentionally makes his army, well, crap or takes it 'easy' on his opponents, waddaya do? If the opponents are new, they have to learn somehow. usually the hard way. I'd possibly point out why I won, what I think doesn't work/does work in their armies etc.

As for veteran opponents, well they should suck it up and try, try again.

Bottom line... maybe Malorian could change his army composition at character level, but the owness is also on the opponents to just keep at it.

P.S. As for the Empire list he fought.... Min/Maxing with the Franz/stank list... you win big, you lose big. as EvC touches on, you drop the state troops, you pay the price...


This is the issue with VC. Nothign against Malorian, but you can create a take all comer VC list that will stomp and general list form any other army. With little to know tactics. Now Malorian is using them to full advantage which makes them even nastier. You can enver expect someone to take a gimped list on purpose, but maybe toning it down isn't a bad idea. Maybe the WE player will play you again.
I think the most telling aspect is the fact that almost every game has a magic phase that goes like this "I dispelled everywhere and failed almost all my spells. I only raised 30 units of 125 zombies and healed 2 other units..." :P

When playing VC you can't make a mistake or failt that one roll or you're screwed. Everything has ot go perfect, or just about for you. Even against say the DE who looked like they were goign to pull it out it happened. He didn't get that one kill he needed and everything else came back and then overran him. Just so hard to stop it.

Good plays Malorian, but VC are nasty, especially in the hands of a decent or experienced general.

athamas
29-04-2008, 19:55
The this is the 'standard' build for many players [untill the latest HE release] was to take enough magic deffence to shut down their opposing forces worst magic untill they could either hit them in combat, or shoot them to death...

this resulted in alot of people not seeing the magic phase as well... a phase...

the last 3 armies [HE, VC, Deamons] all have the ability to have strong magic phases... something alot of players have been getting lax over recently..

in a while more anti magic will start to become standard, and things will balance out again!


anyway, Malorian thanks for the great reports!

Malorian
01-05-2008, 06:03
Game 10: The Emperor Strikes back

It had been only a week before Karl Franz came back, and both armies lined up just out side of town.

Last time Lahboura and her ghouls had destroyed the empire army and sent Karl Franz packing. However this time it wouldn't be so easy as the emperor had learned their tricks and knew what to look out for.

This battle would be tougher, but there was no way either side was going to back down.


We both used the same lists as last time.

The board was 6X4 and from my view there was a hill in the back left of his deployment zone and then another hill between it and the center. A bit to the right of that hill was forest, and then there was another forest on the right side. So bacially we would be fighting in the clearning but I had a hill flanking both sides on my half of the board.

*Note: I was glad that I got to pick sides. I would have hated to have to let him have the hill and the protective forests.*


On the hill in the back left he deployed 1 cannon and a unit of handgunners. To their right was Karl Franz, and to his right was a unit of handgunners, a mage, the flagellants, the other unit of handgunners, the stank, the knights (w/ arch lector), and the other two mages on either side of the out riders protecting the right flank.

I deployed the skeletons w/ mounted vampire on the left flank (left side of the left trees but behind the hill). In the clearing I had from left to right: balefire cart, ghouls, stone cart, grave guard w/ Lahboura (behind which was the bunker with the necromancer and the helm vampire), balefire cart, wraiths. Behind the right trees I had the knights, and on the right flank I had the other two units of ghouls w/ the wightking and the book vampire.

His hunstmen scouted to the other side of the hill from my skeletons.

Pre-game movement: Both ghoul units on the right march up.

Pre-game thoughts: I wasn't going to underestimate him and hope he messed up with the emperor again. I was surprised however to see him deployed so far on the left flank. I deployed the skeletons over there as a bait unit for him hoping to keep him to the flank and away from the main battle. The stank and the knights were together so it should be hard to tie them up with the wraiths. I knew that that arch lector has a magic weapon now, but there is only so much he can do with 2 attacks. Then I can hit the flank ofthe knights with my black knights. On the right flank I was already almost in range with the wightking on his mages and outriders, so that should be an easy flank to take over. His mages were on their own and two of my mages had gaze of nagash so I should be able to pick them off.

Much to my dismay, he got first turn.


Turn 1 Empire:

Stank generates 4 steam points and moves forward 6 inches. The knights and flagellants also move up (knights are just in front/right of the stank). Karl Franz flies over to the left of the clearing. The huntsmen make there way around the hill. With nothing to shoot, the handgunners on the far left hill move forward. In the magic phase everything is stopped except for the arch lector's hammer of sigmar. The steam tank trieds to fire it's cannon and misfires, lossing a wound. The rocket battery misfires and is destroyed, and the two cannons over shoot. The outriders fire on the ghouls moving up the right flank and kill 4. The huntsmen fire on the balefire cart on the left but do no damage.

*Well so much for baiting the emperor, but's it's hard to complain when his warmachines do so poorly.*

Turn 1 VC:

Lahboura passes her stupidity, and always does. The skeletons move up onto the hill. The wraiths run in front of the stank and empire knights. The black knights move into the forest and angle forward to counter the knights or Franz. The ghouls on the right move up. Lahboura falls back to the bunker. The rest of my line sets up to be ready for a charge from the emperor. In the magic phase rod of flamming death kills 4 huntsmen, and they pass their panic test. The mounted vampire in the skeleton unit hits the mage on the left with gaze of nagash and kills him. I try to raise ghouls with Lahboura and he uses the seal of destruction which destroys her IoN. She then vanhels the wraiths into the knights, and tries to vanhels them again (to reroll to hit) but it is dispelled. On the right I get gaze of nagash off on the outriders and kill two, they panic and run back (but not off the board). I fail to dispel the hammer of sigmar. In combat I roll horribly to hit (he was really happy he dispelled that second vanhels) and only kill 1 knight. In return the arch lector does a wound. I lose by three and lose the wounded and another wraith.

*Mixed results here. Did some good damage with gaze of nagash, but I really wanted the wraiths to kill more knights. Now they are in real trouble... even more so if Karl hit's their flank...*

Turn 2 Empire:

Steam tank generate 5 steampoints and charges around the wraiths into the black knights. *Insert arguement as I had thought stanks had to move in a straight line... I was wrong...* Karl Franz charges into the flank of the wraiths. Outriders rally. The huntsmen move closer to the balefire cart on the left. Fanatics move up. Mages moves away from the ghouls. In the magic phase I let both soulfires go off and he kills 1 wraith, but block everything else. In the shooting phase the cannons do poorly and amount to 2 ghouls. Both handgunner units on the left fire into the skeletons and kill 4. Huntsmen fire on the balefire cart and do a wound. The other hangunners fire on the ghouls on the left and kill 2. In combat the wraiths are slaughtered and Karl Franz over runs 13 inches (he needed 15 to hit the flank of the ghouls with wightking and vampire). Black knights are creamed.

*Well so much for those two hammer units... and now the emperor is really threatening my right flank.*

Turn 2 VC:

Balefire cart charges the huntsmen. Wightking charges the mage close to the center. Both hold (I was just in range with wight king). Skeletons move up. Ghouls on the left move toward the flagellants. Lahboura joins the graveguard. The ghouls with no characters move toward the cannon, the other ghouls turn towards the emperor and book vampire runs out of the unit to be beside Karl. In the magic phase all my hellish vigors to off. I get hand of dust off on the mage, but roll a 1 so it's gone, and crush the mage. I get off gaze of nagash on the handgunners on the left and kill 4. They panic and flee back. I vanhels the ghouls into the flagellants and raise the fallen. I make a unit of zombies in the back left of my deployment zone to hold the quarter. I try to vanhels the ghouls into Karl, but all attempts are stopped. In combat neither the cart nor the huntsmen kill anything and I lsoe a wound due to crumbling. The ghouls kill a good eight flagellants and the prophet kills 1 ghoul.

*I left my book vampire out in the open and she is probably going to die from the outriders, but with Karl there it was my best option.*

Turn 3 Empire:

Stank generates 4 steam points and moves to my right flank and faces across my line. (He wanted to charge with his knights but there wasn't enough room). Handgunners rally. Karl flies to my right flank aswell just beside the stank. His magic phase is shut down. The cannon on the steamtank guesses zero as it tries to clip two carts and the grave guard, but it goes an extra 10 and doesn't hit anything. The cannon on the right tries to snipe the wightking but it misfires and explodes. The cannon on the left hits the stone cart and destroys it. Handgunners kill 2 more skeletons and 1 grave guard. Outriders forget to shoot! In combat I kill more flagellants and the prophet kills 1 ghoul. The cart kills nothing and loses by 1 but I make my regen on the crumble.

*After the turn I remind him that he didn't shoot with his outriders ; ) Things are looking scary. With both the stank and karl on my flank Lahboura is in a lot of trouble.*

Turn 3 VC:

Skeletons move a bit more forward (I hate being marched blocked). Graveguard move towards his knights. The cart angles itself infront of the stank to make it look more towards my deployment zone after it kills me. The necromancer and helm vampire ditch the bunker to be beside Karl. Bunker moves a bit back. On the right the wight king faces the back of the knights, and the ghouls move toward the outriders and the flank of the knights (book vampire rejoins ghouls that are now facing flank of knights). In the magic phase I get off hellish vigor. Rod of flaming death kills some of the small handgunner unit and they flee off the board. I vanhels the graveguard into the knight which he gladly lets though (huh?). I try to vanhels the ghouls into their flank but all attempts are stopped. I heal the cart fighting the huntsmen back to full wounds. In combat I make a challenge with my grave guard champ and his champ takes it... my champ is killed. I kill a couple of knights and then the arch lector goes... for some reason my opponent is REALLY excited. He directs his attacks against Lahboura, 1 misses but the reroll hits. Then I learn he wounds on a 2+ (it's sword of fate!!!). Luckily 1 doesn't wound but I fail my ward save on the other. A tense moment as he rolls the wounds... 2! Lahboura is still alive!! His knights kill a few graveguard, but I still win and outnumber him and he breaks. He runs to the other side of the wightking and I follow behind. Cart loses combat and loses a wound. Ghouls kill more flagellants and he is now down to about 6 models.

*Wow, I could have lost Lahboura there. I never expected an archlector to actually be good in combat. I thought he was just very defensive to absorb my blows...*

Turn 4 Empire:

Stank generates 4 steam points and slams into the corpse cart. Karl Franz wants to charge the flank of the graveguard, but the stank is blocking LOS (I love stanks!!!), instead he just flies a bit closer (by ghouls that where going to flank charge). Knights rally. Magic phase is shut down. Cannon tries to snipe Lahboura but I make my look out sir and 3 grave guard go down. Handgunners kills 4 more skeletons. Other handgunners kill 2 graveguard. Outriders forget to shoot again. In combat my ghast makes a challenge and kills his prophet. He is down to 1 flagellant. The cart kills two huntsmen and runs them down stopping just in front of the handgunners on the left. Stank totally wrecks the other balefire cart.

*Lucked out there with the Stank blocking LOS. But this next turn is VERY important. I need to lock down Karl and the knights or my grave guard are in trouble (and thus Lahboura).*

Turn 4 VC:

Mounted vampire charges the cannon. I forget to charge the cart into the handgunners. Lahboura moves within the unit so she won't be touching the archlector if they charge. Ghouls on the right move toward the outriders, and the other turns towards Karl Franz. The book vampire jumps out of the unit into the trees and the helm vampire and necromancer move towards the woods. The wightking moves to the rear of the knights. In the magic phase I raise a unit of zombies infront of the stank to protect the ghouls fighting the lone flagellant. The mounted vampire heals the skeletons back up to 18. The helm vampire hits the central handgunners with gaze of nagash and kill 4, they panic and run. I then try to use vanhels five times (book and then twice with both Lahboura and the book vampire) but I fail 4 of them and the fifth is dispelled. In combat the mounted vampire kills 1 crew, so it's drawn combat. The last flagellant is killed.

*Crap crap crap... now I'm in HUGE trouble. To be fair, I had gotten some irresistable forces with those gaze of nagash spells, but failing that many vanhels is just silly. Four times with 2 dice and once with three shoudl have gone through about 3 times, not just once... At least I have something to blame the loss on...*

Turn 5 Empire:

Stank generates 4 steam points and charges the bunker. Karl charges into the flank of the graveguard with the knights hit the front. Handgunners rally. The magic phase is shut down, including the ring of volans trying to make me WS1. Handgunners shoot the corpse cart but only do 1 wound. OUtriders fire into the ghouls in front of them and kill 5. In combat the emperor makes a challenge and I refuse and Lahboura goes to the back. (I want to make them WS6 but the helm is 14 inches away.) In a great butt kicking my graveguard take a beating and I'm left with Lahboura and 3 graveguard. (The knights had tried to finish off Lahboura but luckily nothing went through. Had they just killed graveguard they might have been wiped out) The mounted vampire finished off the crew.

*Guess I should be glad I'm still alive. I just better get that units healed up. As long as I can do that and keep them trapped then I should be able to pull off a draw.*

Turn 5 VC:

Cart charges into handgunners and the skeletons hit their flank. Wightking charges into rear of knights (man I wish i still had my hand of dust). I forget to charge outriders with the ghouls. Other two ghouls units head toward the big fight. Vampires all move towards the big fight for a good ol healing-fest. In the magic phase I hit the handgunners with rod of flaming death and kill 3. Gaze of nagash kills the last mage. Although I can't heal Lahboura (because he stopped them) I heal the grave guard back up to almost full strength and vanhels the ghouls into the flank of Karl Franz. I also vanhels both the graveguard and the ghouls so they can reroll to hit. The handgunners are easily beaten by the cart and skeletons. The WS6 ghast makes a challenge that the emperor has to take, and although I get a poison off on his griffin, the ghast is slaughtered with full overkill points. Lahboura kills a knight and another falls to killing blow. He tries to direct his attacks against the wounded vampire lord again but nothing goes through. The combat ends up as a draw and since we both have musicians nothing happens.

*That's a lot better. Lahboura still only has 1 more wound but at least I'm pretty safe. I'm now in a good position then I could even win this if I can break the knights.*

Turn 6 Empire:

Stank generates 4 steam points and moves beside the zombies. Outriders charge the ghouls. Handgunners kill a few ghouls. Stank kills 6 zombies with a burst of steam. In combat the outriders do nothing and I kill 1 sending the rest running off the board. Karl Franz makes a challenge and this time the WS6 grave guard champ accepts it, and the champ is smashed with full overkill. Once again he tries to finish off Lahboura (forgot to move archlector into base) but fails. I kill 1 knight and end up losing by 2 so all three units lose 2 wounds (thank god the wightking has 3!).

*Kind of foolish to charge with the outriders, but he's not the type of player that just runs around to deny VPs. Ok... this is it... one more turn to finish him off.*

Turn 6 VC:

Nothing really matters except the main combat. I heal both units and get Lahboura a wound back. The ghast challenges the emperor and does great being that he only gets 5 CR instead of the usual 6 after overkill. Lahboura kills 2 knights and the graveguard finish off the last of the knights. I win by 3 and the outnumbered archlector runs... AND SO DOES THE EMPEROR!!! I fail to catch him, but since he's fleeing at the end of the game I get the VPs!!! This means at the end of the game all he still had alive is the stank and a unit of handgunners under half.

Victory to the vampire counts! (10W-0L)

Her chest still bleeding from the blow of the arch lector, the cut just missing her heart, Lahboura jumped on the break and rallied her army together. Both of the opposing generals were fleeing but there was no need to chase them. The more important thing was to reform ranks and deal with the steam tank still grinding down some helpless zombies.

The day had been won but only because of luck. Lahboura placed her hand on her chest and finally finished healing the wound. The wound that came so close ending her (un)life.

There was no doubt that Karl Franz would return again, but hopefully with two straight losses he would think twice before returning.

The townsfolk sighed and made half-hearted cheers as the Lahboura and her guard returned to rule the town. Maybe one day they would be liberated, but until then they had to go to bed every night wondering if the ghouls would drag them away before morning so their ruler could feast.


Post-game thoughts: I really didn't expect to win by this much. It sure helped when his warmachines killed themselves and the emperor flees from combat last turn. After the wraiths and knight were crushed so early I thought I was done for. Then when I failed all those vanhels and I was dual charged I REALLY thought I was done for. On of the things that actually saved me was Lahboura almost dying. Because she was so close to death a knight and knight champ always sent their attacks against her. Because she was so tough it didn't amount to anything, and as I said had he just gone after the graveguard it could have turned out a lot different. I like to think of it as my lord playing mind games and pretending to be hurt, drawing them away from the real battle... although I know it's a load of bull :D

I'm also lucky that he didn't take advantage of my lone vampires. The outriders could have easily killed the book vampire that turn and several times the stank could have just blasted one with a cannon, but didn't.

Things learned:
-Stanks don't have to move in a straight line when they charge.
-Wraiths are good but if I roll bad they are screwed.
-Be more careful of assassins. Being careless almost got my lord killed on turn 3, which would have basically been the end of the game.
-Always challenge big tough things. Sure they will crush me and give the oppoent lots of CR for overkill, but at least he doesn't kill a bunch of models (instead of 1) and then even more crumble.
-My gaming group HATES my vampires. Better bring something else for the next while ;)

Again, thanks for reading.

Kerill
01-05-2008, 14:34
Sleep well and don't forget to type tomorrow!

I'm really enjoying this series of battle reports.

Fraoch
01-05-2008, 18:00
Thanks for the well written reports Malorian. When Karl is in the rear of the grave guard do you play that Karl is pushed back when more are summoned? We discussed in our group and decided that a unit in the rear of a summonable unit should not be forced back as this may bring other charges into range etc. Just wondering how you play it.

Malorian
01-05-2008, 18:27
Sorry, Karl hit my flank, not my rear. (Fixed now)

The way we played it before is that they got pushed back, but like you said it can make for weird situations...

athamas
01-05-2008, 21:44
another nice report... thanks!

Draconian77
01-05-2008, 23:16
Your opponent is going to have to play better than that to beat the new VC's.

Rules 1: Kill the Vampires. (I mean not shooting the Outriders and Cannons vs the Hero level Vampires and forgetting to put the Sword of Fate into contact with it target, come on...)

EvC
02-05-2008, 09:47
An excellent report, that one, so close! But as Draconian77 says, your opponents just aren't playing well! What the heck was he doing leaving all his mages out by themselves constantly whilst not even considering shooting yours? Combined with the amazing luck (He must have failed about 50 panic tests going by the report!), you're simply not going to get a good challenge!

happy_doctor
02-05-2008, 13:57
Really nice set of reports there, Malorian!

To be honest, I think that the empire player lost the game during list-building. His army has less models/units than my 2000 pts list! That makes for no alternative choices once a crucial unit is tied down.

If I was building a 3000pts empire army vs VC, I'd be sure to include a hero with the sword of fate, large units of swordsmen with detachments, a mortar, Inner Circle knights joined by a warrior priest, etc...

Other than that, 23 PD Magic phases scare the hell out of me as well!

Keep the reports coming mate!

Malorian
02-05-2008, 15:07
I don't know why he deoesn't put his mages in units. He always does it too. Maybe it's because he fails so many panic tests that having them in a unit is actually a liability ; )

Malorian
03-05-2008, 07:03
Ok, well I played a game today, but it's not even worth writing a report on.

It was a 1650 point game (I just dropped Lahboura) and I was up against the zombie pirates.

I want to get one thing straight for those thinking about starting them... DON'T!!! Man they suck! Sure they have some neat things, but they have no magic, and their characters suck. They have guns, but there is an equal chance that they will hit themselves as that they will hit you, and with them not being able to be raised that's just garbage.

Basically I just walked all over him. By turn 3 his general was dead... By turn 4 I had almost wiped him out (the cairn wraiths did amazingly well being that he had pretty much nothing that could stop them).

So I'm not going to count this match, I'm just going to let you guys know this joke of a game happened and then leave at that with a note that you should never play with them unless you plan to lose...

Draconian77
03-05-2008, 07:11
You played Zombie Pirates at 1650pts? Not likely because IIRC they can only be used in games of 2000pts or more.

You have to have Luther Harkon leading the army, he is a Lord, hence 2k or more.

BTW Luthor is MG3 and adds 4 DD to the pool of the Zombie Pirates. But Zombie Pirates are not a great list at the moment, more of a fun list.

Damn cool looking armies though. Zombies with shotguns, who would have thought it!

Malorian
03-05-2008, 12:42
Well he did use that Harkon guy... guess he was bending the rules a bit.

The reason why he died turn 3 is because on turn 2 he became frenzied and ran into a full unit of ghouls.

Boss_Salvage
05-05-2008, 13:16
Silly zombie pirates, undead are for vamps! :wtf:

- Salvage

gd09garett
08-05-2008, 19:16
SNIP
BUT, his 2000pts and 3000pts lists, apart from using a large core of ghouls ( which I think is quite interesting and themed in itself ) should look very familiar to vamp players and non-players alaike. And 14+3bound @ 2000pts/ 17+6bound @ 3000pts.... not that unusual either.

SNIP


I don't know anyone involved here so this is just a general comment- I am not sure if the VC are overpowered, but what I do not like is that they force a specific play style [either character killing or heavy magic defense] on their opponents. 14 PD and 3 bounds is simply too much for a 5 or 6 dispel dice and a one scroll army that would be considered 'normal' [at least in my experience]. Combine that with ability to bring back very tough models- like Grave Guard, Knights or the vampires wounds themselves- as a guarenteed spell [to have, not necessarily to cast] and they can grow out of control.

Of course, Mal does some points as well [about being forced on the defensive] and that will hurt them more against some armies than others [Bretts for example] who can launch big enough charges to completely wipe out units. Others, who win based on ranks, flanks and breaking an enemy [ex. infantry heavy Empire] are out of luck as they simply can kill models fast enough to avoid the re-raise and the flanking by other [possibly raised] units.

Volker the Mad Fiddler

Arguleon-veq
09-05-2008, 13:29
After reading your posts in another thread Malorian about people complaining about this army, I got to thinking about it. I'd read all the BatReps but forgot exactly what was in your 2,000 list.

No doubt you are a very good player, I consider myself a good player too but I would have a VERY hard time dealing with this army with my take on all comers lists, even though many are very big on magic defense [7 DD Gobs with +1 to dispell and -1 PD for the enemy, 7 DD Wood Elves with Re-Rolls and 2 Scrolls etc].

I think its the big unit of Wraiths coupled with enough magic to swamp even the best magic defense. Going that big on magic defense means that any offensive magic items [bound spells etc] which could be used to deal with the Wraiths, wont be available and neither will any magic weapon weilding characters. I think thats the main problem, It was always the Wraiths that I couldnt figure out when I was running things through. It is a very powerful army. Its very cleverly built if that was your intention.

Taking nothing away from your wins, as youve said, you win most of the time even with weaker armies and you clearly use this one well too but I would have a very hard time going up against this list and would no doubt get very frustrated with it, especially with HAVING to go huge on magic defense if I was to have any hope of competing. I'd probably enjoy the challenge for a few games but If it was what I was always playing at a gaming club [as I believe thats where you play against a specific pool of players?] it would no doubt become a bit of a pain.

Just one of those lists that because of its power value, your opponents will get very bored of it if you are playing against the same players. Perhaps take it to some tournies or for some pick up games at another club/GW store?. I doubt you would find many complaints that way and it would no doubt work very well in a tourny environment.

Nevertheless, great BatReps and if youdo get anymore games with this list Id still be interested in reading more. [Just as much for a way as to unlock this kind of army lol]

Draconian77
09-05-2008, 20:41
But its not Malorians fault its the writers fault. They never should have made the Vamp spells re-castable or with such low values. They shouldn'y have made Vampires capable of being better than Necros. They shouldn't have put in so many magic boosting items and traits. But they did. The whole book just screams "Abuse the magic phase."

EvC
09-05-2008, 21:15
Personal restraint is a wonderful ability to have ;)

Draconian77
09-05-2008, 22:12
I find most Wargamers have a competitive edge, not WAAC type of people but people that dont want to lose all the time. But the average Vampire magic phase is just so powerful against the average 4-5 Dice+2 Scrolls armies that are out there. Everyone I know these days is bringing much more magic defense which is making other players drop their mediocre magic phases altogether and invest in something else. The VC's actually changed the way people build there lists around here and that really screams to me that they have too much influence.

Gazak Blacktoof
09-05-2008, 23:30
Just thought I'd point out (somebody mentioned it) that if there's no room to summon models into a unit; due to terrain, enemies, friendly troops, board edges, etc then any troops that can't be placed are lost.

I believe this was in the tomb kings FAQ, but I can't remember where I saw it.

Don't get your undead rear charged!

Draconian77
10-05-2008, 02:13
Dont get anything rear charged!

Barring an army full of flying units most armies could not take advantage of that ruling although it is certainly good to know.

Malorian
10-05-2008, 05:49
I think the only way to go with vampires is magic heavy, much like tomb kings.

At first I thought the best way to beat VC was through tough magic defense, but I now know that is wrong. The main thing to do is to go after the vampires and shut it down that way.

In order to shut down the VC magic phase you have to spend a LOT of points just to have a good chance. On the flip side, with balefire and all the wizards I'm shutting down your magic phase.

Sure I might make units of a hundred ghouls (if I have the models) but who cares. Just tie them up and go for the expensive units.

So instead of trying to beat a vc army with a lord mage with dispel scrolls, just take character killers. It doesn't have to be as extreme as karl franz, but each list has enough to make great assassins. I still find it amazing that when people are fighting a unit of my ghouls with a vampire in it that they don't direct any attacks at the vampire... even though it's exactly as hard to harm as a ghoul.

Draconian77
10-05-2008, 10:00
He, see my first post on this thread, Rule 1: Kill the Vampires.

Well the Vamp should have higher weapon skill giving him a slightly increased chance of survival against some units. Either way that is your opponents fault and falls into the same category as not firing at them with his/her cannon and outriders.

Powerful offensive magic is still good against VC IME. I play DE and bar the flying Peg Noble with Draich our character killing options are limited but spell like Soul Stealer, Black Horror and Dominion can really devastate the Vamp player.

Scallat
11-05-2008, 09:20
Would you look at that? The new un-overpowered VC have a 9-0 winning streak. :rolleyes:

Not trying to take anything away from you, you play well. It´s more of a response to the whole "VC isn't overpowered and never have been, it's just new-army-syndrome"-bit which gets tired fast.

As a side note, I have played plenty of games both against and with VC, both the old and new book. As well as every other army in WH (Except of course Chaos Dwarves and Dogs of war).


It's less to do with VC being over powered and more to do with his opponenets being terrible. For example in game 3 the vampire lord challanged a unit with Malus Darkblade in and the opponent accepted with his champion? He should have dropped Malus' sleeping potion and accepted with him. Against a vampire built for magic Malus should've easily won the duel and once the general is dead it's pretty much game over.

Minion
11-05-2008, 10:10
Ok,kill the vamp sounds easy,but what if you cant??I found myself using a vampire lord that actually killed:Grimgore,Gorbad,Septra,Malekith and fully a dozen other lords...What then smarties??What if the VC player has himself a character killer???And with so many other characters you can easily have a tough magic phase that wont be easily taken out.Plus whats this obssesion about ghouls??what happened to good old skellies??all astray??I use purely skeletal regiments wich end up working just as well as ghouls plus for a good banner bonus.Although its true once general is down its pretty much goodbye

Gazak Blacktoof
11-05-2008, 10:30
Ok,kill the vamp sounds easy,but what if you cant??I found myself using a vampire lord that actually killed:Grimgore,Gorbad,Septra,Malekith and fully a dozen other lords...What then smarties??

I've not seen the new VC book yet but my understanding is that vamps can't excell at both combat and magic. If the general is tooled for combat then its going to have weaker magic and you can actually just kill the rest of the army without it being re-raised continuously.

It should be easy enough to tell from magic phases and the initial size of the army roughly how much your opponenet has invested in characters and what type of characters they are.

Kai Itzah
11-05-2008, 11:04
Vampires are great at both magic and combat, in pretty much any set up. A vampire alone, without any upgrades already has 2 spells, other mages (who have no fighting ability whatsoever, let alone WS6 and A2) have to get the Level 2 Upgrade for the extra spell. Here's a Vampire Lord for 335, or 285, depending on preferences, who has up to 10 spells, WS7.

Vampire Lord
+1 Level (or not depending on your Forbidden Lore choice it would be obsolete)
Avatar of Death (Heavy Armour, Hand Weapon, Shield)
Infinite Hatred
Forbidden Lore

A Vampire Lord is already an extremely powerful fighter, choosing magical options does not make it weaker. You do have the choice to make it have an extra attack for every wound inflicted, re-roll all failed rolls to hit and potentially re-roll failed rolls to wound aswell - but it doesn't need them. You can just give it Avatar of Death, put it in a unit of say Skeletons or Ghouls and arm it with 10, or even 11 spells. Really, the best choice is to tool it for magic, because as I said before, it is already an amazing fighter. Even if you do tool your Lord entirely for attack, you can have Vampires and Necromancers, 2 of which - while not being able to get 11 spells, will be able to make up for the Vampire Lord's slight magical absence (seeing as he automatically has Invocation of Nehek +2 spells) seeing as the normal Vampire almost matches up to his Lord in terms of combat.

In conclusion, Vampires are a teensy bit broken. :P

Arguleon-veq
11-05-2008, 11:51
Not really, you can get a Monster of a Lord that pumps out 5 power dice, gets a 2+ save, with 4 auto hitting lance attacks, a 4+ ward and adds +1 to combat Res.

Its very easy to get a VERY hard Lord that is also very good in the magic phase. Even a Lvl3 Dread Knight with the extra attacks for wounds, Dread Lance and Crown is still a decent caster. Lvl3 isnt bad when you have another 3 Lvl2 Mages. 11 Power Dices is pretty magic heavy when you think about it, even though Vamps can get a lot more. 7 Dispell is some Solid Magic Defense and all those casters can really fight.

Malorian
11-05-2008, 16:20
Keep in mind that these 'broken' vampire lords are 400 points or more...

Most armies can get a Lvl 4 caster and a combat lord for 400 points as well. It's just in the vampire's case it's all eggs in one basket, especially when you bring in what happens if the general dies.

I'd also like to ask you guys to keep the 'are vampires broken' debate out of this thread, and try to keep it to comments on the reports and the tactics used.

Baindread
11-05-2008, 20:28
It's less to do with VC being over powered and more to do with his opponenets being terrible. For example in game 3 the vampire lord challanged a unit with Malus Darkblade in and the opponent accepted with his champion? He should have dropped Malus' sleeping potion and accepted with him. Against a vampire built for magic Malus should've easily won the duel and once the general is dead it's pretty much game over.

Malus isn't that strong. He wouldn't survive against my VC lords. And I wouldn't say Malorians opponents are terrible. It´s more that there is a gap between their abilities at warhammer. And that the new VC list is very strong, even stronger than the last edition.

Draconian77
11-05-2008, 22:03
"Most armies can get a Lvl 4 caster and a combat lord for 400 points as well. It's just in the vampire's case it's all eggs in one basket, especially when you bring in what happens if the general dies."

I'm calling BS on that. I play DE. My Lord choice is a High Sorceress that costs 350pts upwards depending on whether or not I mount her on a Dark Peg. So for a measly 50pts more the Vampire know more spells, has better survivability and add a lot of combat res to any squad he joins. A Vampire Lord should be 500+pts easy.

Peril
12-05-2008, 03:19
Wait, can Vamps cast in armor?

EvC
12-05-2008, 08:31
Of course they can. Why couldn't they?

Malorian
12-05-2008, 12:00
"Most armies can get a Lvl 4 caster and a combat lord for 400 points as well. It's just in the vampire's case it's all eggs in one basket, especially when you bring in what happens if the general dies."

I'm calling BS on that. I play DE. My Lord choice is a High Sorceress that costs 350pts upwards depending on whether or not I mount her on a Dark Peg. So for a measly 50pts more the Vampire know more spells, has better survivability and add a lot of combat res to any squad he joins. A Vampire Lord should be 500+pts easy.

Lvl 4 High sorceress = 255 (pretty expensive for a lvl 4...)

Dark elve Highborn w/ armor of darkness, sword of might = 170

Total = 425

You have a lvl 4 mage and a combat lord with a 2+ save and str 5. But, you can upgrade to the venom sword and then who ever is injured by it has to pass a toughness test on 2d6 or they are instantly killed.

sainthale1988
12-05-2008, 12:53
empire could get a lev 4 and a hardish combat based captain for about 300pts

btw i demand another batrep! ;)

Peril
12-05-2008, 14:26
Of course they can. Why couldn't they?

Because wizards cannot cast in armor? (Did they change something about this in last edition when I wasn't looking?)

explorator
12-05-2008, 14:27
I'd also like to ask you guys to keep the 'are vampires broken' debate out of this thread, and try to keep it to comments on the reports and the tactics used.


btw i demand another batrep! ;)

Why do people ignore the OP's reasonable request and still want more batreps?

Malorian, thank you for this series of reports. It can be ponderous writing all that info up, and annoying when people are critical of your army/play style/etc. Keep playing as many games as you can and remember that your batreps are valued.

Draconian77
12-05-2008, 17:14
"Lvl 4 High sorceress = 255 (pretty expensive for a lvl 4...)

Dark elve Highborn w/ armor of darkness, sword of might = 170

Total = 425

You have a lvl 4 mage and a combat lord with a 2+ save and Str 5. But, you can upgrade to the venom sword and then who ever is injured by it has to pass a toughness test on 2d6 or they are instantly killed."

Wow. First of all, at 2k pts I can only take 1. Massive advantage to VC's right there.

Secondly, I think you will be hard pressed to find any player who doesn't give their Lord choice magical items, especially the High Sorcerous. As you have these characters set up the Vampire is better at casting and in combat and somehow you see that as fair?

A Highborn on foot? What unit has he joined? DE have no good infantry for him to accompany. Taking rules and pts costs out of the context of their army book is idiocy. He must have a Ward save or more hitting power and he need mobility. Suggesting to a DE player to take the Venom Sword is like asking a player not to bring a Lord choice to a 2k game. Anything worth killing with the Venom Sword will either have T6 or be a Lord choice in which case 4 S4 attacks will not get past its armour and ward saves or any other defenses it has.

I fail to see how you could argue about Vampire Lords well priced when the fact of the matter is they are horrible undercosted.

Malorian
12-05-2008, 17:26
When the dark elve army starts to crumble after you kill the general I'll start to sympathize with you.

I'd suggest you check out this battle report: http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142269

Why don't you move your 'vampire lords are broken' thoughts there.


P.S. I'll try and get another battle report up soon. Things have been busy lately... I should note though that I play several armies, so with switching back and forth the best I can promice is about 1 battle reort (for vampires) per month.

gd09garett
12-05-2008, 18:58
Lvl 4 High sorceress = 255 (pretty expensive for a lvl 4...)

Dark elve Highborn w/ armor of darkness, sword of might = 170

Total = 425

You have a lvl 4 mage and a combat lord with a 2+ save and str 5. But, you can upgrade to the venom sword and then who ever is injured by it has to pass a toughness test on 2d6 or they are instantly killed.

True, but you also need two Lord slots to do it.As most games are played in the 2000-2999 point range, that isn't an option.
Also, the Lvl 4 has no magic enhancement in this set up, so how effective would she really be? Finally, the Highborn is on foot and will have a very difficult time actually reaching an appropriate vampire to kill.
I do understand your point though. My first game against vampires in this list included a vamp lord on a terror. I charged him on the second turn with some knights errant, killed the terror, vampie crumbled from CR, game over. The catch seems to be that the vampire player must make a mistake to lose a game, while their opponents must capitalize on one to win.

Volker the Mad Fiddler

EvC
12-05-2008, 20:34
I look forward to a new report as well, one thing's for sure, even if your opponents aren't amazing, they will surely get better for playing you and your army ;)


Because wizards cannot cast in armor? (Did they change something about this in last edition when I wasn't looking?)

Yes, they changed it. Welcome to 7th edition :)

Peril
12-05-2008, 20:45
Oh! Well then by all means, have some rockin' Vamps!

I have to admit that I was very skeptical about the new Vamps, but I am starting to understand things a little better. It is just a bit of paradigm shift in terms of the way magic is going to be in GW's vision for Fantasy.

Anyway, I am glad for your battle reports. You are a reasonable guy and we need more reasonable people in this hobby ;)

Draconian77
12-05-2008, 23:23
"Why don't you move your 'vampire lords are broken' thoughts there."

Quick to assume there weren't you? I haven't lost to VC's yet and I don't intend to any time soon but the fact remains a Vampire Lord is incredibly undercosted for its abilities in both the Magic and Combat phases. Killing the Vampire Lord requires the Vampire to be a complete idiot. Its not hard to protect one model when you have a spell that raises redirecting units.
I don't think any WFBA is broken more than the next one, I do think WHFB is all about points denial for certain armies and Rock-Paper-Scissors for the rest in a competitive scene.

I didn't bother to check your link as I'm assuming something incredibly unlucky happened to the Vampire Lord 1st or second turn and he lost the game because of it. That is not going to happen every game and any realist knows it...

YTY
13-05-2008, 08:15
I'd suggest you check out this battle report: http://warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142269

Why don't you move your 'vampire lords are broken' thoughts there.

Should we think that because a good player won a not-so-good player with the help of a very lucky shot, vampire lords are not undercosted?

And yes, you can counter them but it still does not make them to be the right price.

Malorian
13-05-2008, 20:48
I think the real problem is that people hear about the super summon lord, and they hear about the super lance lord and assume both are one and the same. They don't realize that you can't get the best of both worlds (although you can try to find some middle ground).

Look at Lahboura. 395 points and I generate 5 power dice and get +1 if I'm casting 1 spell, but I have no armor, and to get the 4+ ward I take the (minor) risk of stupidity. So I want to keep her out of dangerous combat since if I lose her I give up 495 points to the opponent (general) plus my army starts to crumble. Also if I use bigger spells I don't get the +1 and I run the risk of miscasting and possibly even lossing her to a miscast result. So most of the time you want to keep her to just summoning.

Now for 395 points I can buy 49 ghouls, so I have to raise at least 49 ghouls to make her points back from a summoning perspective (which hasn't happened to far).

So then why don't I just take 49 extra ghouls? Well because there is a definate advantage to the flexability of summoning where you need it and having the other spells that can come in handy. It helps me overload the magic phase so I can get critical spells off more easily and is great for victory point denial. Plus I can't deny that she can put up a good fight and can even take on heros and lords if she's careful.

Summary: Isn't a god, doesn't suck, is perfect for her points.

gd09garett
13-05-2008, 23:11
SNIP

Summary: Isn't a god, doesn't suck, is perfect for her points.

But none of this changes the fact that for the points, Vampires have a huge advantage in an all comers type environment because they change the way an opponent has to play. In other words, a 'balanced' vampire army [like Mal's which is designed to fight all comers] will have an advantage against a 'balanced' army from most other races [which simply won't have the magic defense to begin to counter the vampires magic phase]. This would not be a big problem, except that the vampires magic phase counters all three other phases [movement, shooting, and close combat] of the opponent by bring back models, providing movement and combat advantage. So, to counter the magic phase, other armies must actually build differently which strikes me as wrong. A wargame should be decided on the field, not when building.

Basically, it seems to me like the writers of the Vampire book said, 'Wow vampires are really character dependant. I think all armies should be like that, but I am not writing all the books, so how can I change the vampires to make ALL armies more character dependant."

TLDR version- don't think the Vampires are necessarily unbalanced, but do not like the fact that to be effectively fought against, other armies have to build while taking them specifically into consideration.

Volker the Mad Fiddler

Arguleon-veq
13-05-2008, 23:42
Mals Vamp isnt really THAT hard to kill [for Vamps anyway]. If Mal was a bad player, that Vamp would probably die fairly often.

The Super Lance Lord bothers me, he is a serious pain to kill. You can get the Super Lance Lord in a 14 Power Dice 2,000 point army too.

Prince Facestab
14-05-2008, 02:39
Gah, can we please take the game balance discussion elsewhere? A comment or two is ok, but the comment to report ratio is becoming very unfavorable.

Let's hear about some more fights!

Arguleon-veq
14-05-2008, 12:56
You would have an 'unfavorable' reports to comments ratio if people just put 'Good Rep' all the time. Discussing Mals list and the survivability of his Lord and how it could be defeated directly relates to the BatReps. Especially as some of his opponents also read these.

It can also give Mal some insight on things to look out for if some people suggest certain ways to kill the Lord etc.

If you dont like all the other posts in a BatRep thread just dont read them and just read the BatReps.

EvC
14-05-2008, 22:23
I'd be interested to know if he's ever failed a stupidity test with her! In an army where summoning every turn matters, it'd be a real pain in the neck (oho see what I did there?!)...

Malagant
14-05-2008, 23:08
Oh, that was horrible.

I've been wondering the same...her seeming ability to never fail has me considering taking that item on my Lord, but it seems such a gamble!


I'd be interested to know if he's ever failed a stupidity test with her! In an army where summoning every turn matters, it'd be a real pain in the neck (oho see what I did there?!)...

Arguleon-veq
14-05-2008, 23:21
What are the actual odds on failing at Ld 10?. I havent seen my mates Vamp Lord fail with it yet either.

Malagant
15-05-2008, 00:32
Odds are 1 in 6....so statistically she should be failing once per full-length game.


What are the actual odds on failing at Ld 10?. I havent seen my mates Vamp Lord fail with it yet either.

Andrew Luke
15-05-2008, 02:22
I get 8.3% chance, so only once every two games, not so bad.. Whens the next rep!?

EvC
15-05-2008, 08:58
There's a 1/12 chance of failing stupidity with her, once every two games, supposedly. I myself have managed to fail stupidity two turns in a row in my games with a Crowned Lady leading my undead, but am about average :)

Dexter099
15-05-2008, 09:51
Vampire Counts are not broken. Get used to fighting expensive characters. Play against Vampire Count armies right. Remember, Vampire Count armies rely COMPLETELY on the magic phase, and are heavily prone to miscasts, and the loss of characters is devastating for them.

I want to look at the army lists her opponent used, and point out the problems with them. Let's see the first one, against her wood elve's opponent.

"Highborn on dragon w/ bow of loren, arkain bodkins, spear, light armor, enchanted shield
Noble w/ hail of doom arrow, bow of hurt yourself, spear, light armor, shield, horse

10 glade guard X 4
5 glade riders X 3
8 dryads

3 war hawks

5 waywatchers X 2"

The most glaring problem in this list is absolutely no magic users. At least, as a rule, bring a scroll caddy 9lvl. 1 wizard w/2 dispell scrolls) to each game you play! Since the Wood Elf player was playing Vampire Counts, a magic dependant army, she should have brought 2 scroll caddies!
Not bringing any magic whatsoever lost the wood elf player the game before it had even begun.

Also, this list doesn't seem to have any sort of meaningful strategy to it. It has some shooty units, then some fragile and low count expensive Close Combat troops: The Dragon and Dryads.

Shooting is possibly the worst tactic to use against Vampire Counts. Sure, a little bit of it here and there might be helpful, but trying to base an entire list off of shooting an army that can raise around 10 soldiers each turn is a poor strategy.

Taking a dragon in a 2000 point game is a bad idea in itself. So, basically, the only effective units in this list are the dryads, who are heavily unsupported. And no, 5 man units of glade guard do not cut it against VCs.



"Highborn w/ greatweapon, ambre pendant, hail of doom arrow
Noble w/ stuff
lvl 2 mage
lvl 2 mage

10 glade guard X3
20 eternal guard w/ full command
8 glade riders
10 dryads w/ champ

4 treekin
10 waywatchers"

Obviously, our wood elf player learned harshly last game what it was like to have no magic. Also, they dropped the dragon and brought some Close Combat troops to the fray, giving themselves a chance.

However, this player should have taken only lvl. 1 wizards with dispel scrolls, and gone more defensively. Thus, there was not much change in the amount of dispel power.

The Wood elf player did not seem certain about whether they wanted to have offensive magic, defensive magic, or both. Trying to out offense VCs is an inherently poor idea, and just trying to halt their magic is much better. My advice would have been to save points by taking cheap lvl. 1 wizards with dispel scrolls and getting more CC troops.

The wood elf player brought a bit too much extra shooting, and could have spared some points elsewhere. Thus, she was doomed to fail.

Malus Darkblade
Lvl 4 High sorceress on dark pegasus w/ power stone and some dispel scrolls
Lvl 2 sorceress w/ dispel scrolls
Lvl 2 sorceress w/ dispel scrolls

10 warriors w/ shields, crossbows X 4
20 witchelves w/ full command, banner of murder, rune of khaine

10 cold one knights w/ full command
20 exicutioners w/ full command

RBT X 4

We have the same problem with magic here as in the wood elf army. The dark elf player is trying to be offensive against vampire counts. Again, remember that is you take away the VC's magic, what you have left is a bunch of poor quality troops that can be overwhelmed.
At least, though, he brought some dispel scrolls. He still should have taken a non sorceress lord choice, (a noble), to defeat the VC in CC. Or no lord choices at all, maybe a hero choice cc-er.

The DE player also did dispelling poorly, using dispell scrolls to dispel lvl. 4 bound spells?:confused:

The warriors shouldn't have had shields, and should have stayed with just rep. crossbows to save points.

I do like the witch elves, cold one knights, and excecutioners, perfect for cutting down the low quality undead hordes with high strength or multiple attacks.

The repeater bolt throwers were a good idea, but poorly used. They should have ALL drawn line of sight to the vampire lord and shot bolts at her until she failed a look out sir roll and gotten killed, which would have helped win the game.

Even though it was a decent list, it was only mediocre and used mediocrally. How do expect to win when you play mediocre?



Orc warboss w/ shield, killing blow weapon
Bigboss w/ handweapon shield
lvl 2 orc shaman w/ 2 dispel scrolls on boar
lvl 2 nightgoblin shamen w/ staff of sneaky stealing

24 black orcs w/ full command and banner of butchery
25 orcs w/ full command, extra hand weapon
25 orcs w/ full command, extra hand weapon
30ish night goblins w/ full command, nets, 3 fanatics (handweapon/shield)
8 spider riders
8 spider riders

orc chariot w/ extra orc
orc chariot w/ extra orc

doom diver

The OandG player need sto have not tried to go offensive magically, and should have stuck with stopping the VC magic. Other than that I think this is a pretty solid list.

It just didn't win, partially because it couldn't stop the magic.
Malorian just played better.

Lvl 4 spellweaver w/ wand of wych elm, dispel scroll
Lvl 2 spellsinger w/ 2 dispel scrolls
noble w/ hail of doom
lvl 1 branchwraith w/ cluster of radiants

10 gladeguard X 4
8 glade riders w/ full command
11ish dryads

12ish wardancers w/ full command

5 waywatchers

This is once again a pretty poor list, with our WE player once again trying to overpower the VC army with magic, which didn't work. they brought a good dispel magic item, though.

However, they tried to shoot down the VC again, which certainly didn't work.
The WE player was really short on CC untis as a result of the gigantic points dumps.

So, it was once again doomed to fail.

tomb king w/ crook and flail of radiance, collar of shapesk
liche high priest w/ cloak of dunes, plaque of incarnation, 2 dispel scrolls
tomb prince w/ chariot of fire, flail, light armor, brooch of the great desert
tomb prince w/ great weapon, amulet of pha-stak
liche priest w/ casket of souls, staff of sorcery
liche priest w/ staff of ravening

3 chariots w/ icon of the sacred eye *chariot prince here*
4 chariots
23 skeletons w/ banner, light armor *GW prince and liche priest here*
24 skeletons w/ banner, light armor, BOTUL *king here*

24 tomb guard w/ champian, standard, icon of rapataph
tomb scorpian
tomb scorpian
3 carrian

catapult
catapult

With TK's and VC's, you don't really know how it's going to go. Both armies got a ton of spells through.

The thing that makes this list weak is the excessive amoutn of biug, points heavy units, and not strong, cc units. (Ushabti or Bone giants would be great). How about some fast cav to slow down and harras the VC army? (maybe not)

VC are reliant on their magic and characters to move well. The TK player should have assasinated the vamps, and blocked off magic to a point.

Malorian is a good general in general (haha), and had a better list, so won.


Malus Darkblade
Highborn on dragon w/venom sword, armor of darkness
Lvl 2 sorceress w/ dispel scrolls (chill wind, black horror)
Lvl 2 sorceress w/ dispel scrolls (chill wind, word of pain)

10 warriors w/ shields, crossbows X 4
20 witchelves w/ full command, banner of murder, rune of khaine

10 cold one knights w/ full command
cold one chariot
5 shades

RBT X 4

The dragon is expensive and not worth the points, methinks. And the shades are worthless.

This army was not used well, though, and that was a big problem that costed the game.

Karl Franz w/ Ghal Maraz on griffin
Arch lector w w/ full plate, shield, some magical weapon amd armor.
lvl 2 mage w/ luck stone, dispel scroll (heavens)
lvl 2 mage w/ seal thing that is a dispel scroll and I forget the spell on a 4+ (heavens)
lvl 2 mage w/ 2 dispel scrolls (heavens)
*There might have been more stuff but I'm not sure*

10 knights w/ full command
10 handgunners
10 handgunners
10 handgunners
20 flagellants
10 huntsmen

great cannon
great cannon
5 outriders

rocket battery
steam tank

Having an unprotected gun line, a lot of characters, and a few expensive units is a recipe for failure. This looks more like a 5t ed. army list than a 7th ed one. Come on, guys, 5th was over 8 years ago!

Maybe a few halberdiers might have helped.

Empire players should not be taking wizards to outpower other magic heavy armies. The main lores are just not as good as DE, HE, VC, TK, and chaos lores.


I don't think any of his opponents even looked for VC weaknesses and were soundly defeated.

A VC army has very few subtle weak points, but those weak points are extremely weak, and if a canny general can exploit them, they will find the VC beatable.

sainthale1988
15-05-2008, 10:19
THIS IS A BAT REP THREAD! STOP CONTAMINATING IT WITH DISCUSSION: MOVE YOUR ARGUMENT TO A SUTIBLE TREAD!

on a serious note guys please stop, nobody wants to get mods involved but this is starting to get realy boring

zak
15-05-2008, 11:09
Exactly. I have been enjoying the reports. Ok some of the games have been one sided, but atleast Malorian took the effort to post them. If you have a problem start a thread. I just had to go through two pages of rubbish for nothing!

Arguleon-veq
15-05-2008, 11:34
Dexters post was a commentary on the opposition lists, it was nothing to do with the power of Vamp Counts. It is directly related to the thread and adds for some more interesting reading. You are clutteringup the threads with your 'Dont post anything besides 'GOOD REP!!!!!'' posts. If you dont like reading discussions on the BatReps then just dont read them and skip to the Reps.

I have my own BatRep chronicle thread and I dont mind people discussing the armies of my opponents, any mistakes in the game, what I or the other player could have done better. Strategies for next time or suggestions on the lists. I dont imagine Mal does either, he just doesnt want the whole Vamp Balance thread but most of the recent posts arent about Vamp Balance and are on the things I mentioned above.

I will be coming up against a very summoning heavy ghoul horde quite soon and so insight onto how Mals opponents could have done better will benefit me and no doubt many other players. Even Mal himself. Mal adressed the Vamp Balance issue and it has since stopped for the most part, your posts of pretty much saying 'Stop Posting!' dont help anything.

athamas
15-05-2008, 17:33
Dexter makes some good points, basicly highlighting the weaknesses in the lists that were faced,

[un]fortunatly its becoming more important to take a balanced list nowerdays... [IMO a good thing]

alot of people are still trying to use their one trick pony lists that were vaible a year ago, but now fall down to the new lists!

Dexter099
15-05-2008, 19:54
Yeah, Mal is a good general from what I can tell.

The problem was that Mal's opponent's lists didn't concentrate on dispelling magic.

Undead can crumble really fast if you beat them by quite a bit.

I f I were to play Mal, I'd take a screen of beastmen, 2 scroll caddies, a few characters, and a slew of Warriors of Chaos.

Maybe a knight unit or 2, and my character killer general with helm of many eyes, vampiric blade, and soul cleaver.

Good luck, Mal, and don't play worse because other people don't like losing.

Prince Facestab
15-05-2008, 22:25
Blech. Ok, fine.

I think it's unfair to criticize most of the lists for not concentrating on dispelling magic. With the exception of the Tomb Kings list and the Karl Franz list, it sounds like these were "take all comers" lists.

Also, some of the lists had a very large amount of magic defense for a take all comers game. The O&G player had two wizards with two dispel scrolls and a power die stealer. The dark elf player the second time had 2 wizards and 4 dispel scrolls. Since these are "take all comers" lists, again, I think it's unfair to say that those extra 70 points they spent making their two wizards level 2 were points foolishly spent; they could have very well been worthwhile against other opponents, and I personally don't know what they could have gotten for 70 points that would have made a huge difference.

I rather agree with Malorian's statement upthread; the way to beat a list like this is not heavy magic defense, since no amount really helps, but solid magic defense and character killing. Dexter, the beast stuff that you posted looks like it fits the bill. I do think that it is a problem in that it is far too punishing to people who don't conform to this sort of build.

I haven't played against VC enough to be able to say if their army book is a problem. Personally, I suspect that Malorian is a very good general, and this is a very good list; I suspect that variants of it are the new VC power build.

Anyway, do keep posting reports. I'm interested to see how things go.

Arguleon-veq
16-05-2008, 00:11
'Prince Facestab' haha, Ive actually been stabbed in the face, I should totally steal that name.

I think with the 3 latest army books, every take on all comers list must now go big on magic defense for play in competative environments. I know my lists have changed quite considerably. My Orcs and Gobs with 7 DD, with -1 enemy PD and +1 to Dispell AND a Scroll. My Dogs of war with 7 DD and 2 Scrolls. Wood Elves with 7 DD with 2 Scrolls and Re-Rolls. Even my Chaos now go with 7 DD and at least 1 Scroll. Before the last 3 army books I often went with 1 mage sometimes with just 1 dispell scroll and it worked for me. I just cant do that anymore.

The Winds of Magic are blowing very strong these days. :p

Dexter099
16-05-2008, 02:47
Well, then again, you have to realize that the past three armies that were released are magic heavy armies anyways. (High Elves, Vampire Counts, and Demons)

So it's not exactly as if warhammer is going the magic way.

And no, the break is not over; the next two fantasy armies to be released are magic heavy: Dark Elves and another Chaos army. I believe up next is lizardmen (not that great magic. Sure, you get a Slaan, but don't get an individual spell lore) and tomb kings and beastmen (magic heavy armies)

The thing is that, if you have to take a certain army list to beat someone, that's how it should be. If I could take any army list I wanted against any kind of enemy and be able to win, that would mean that all fantasy armies are the same and thus all the flavor would be lost. The general idea is that your army must sometimes play a certain way to defeat certain enemy armies.

And yes, I recognise that my analysis is not completely accurate. If you guys notice some things I didn't notice (such as the O&G player's power dice sucking magic item) please chip in. I guess we could just have tactics analyses whiel we wait for the next one...

Teran
16-05-2008, 23:04
Excellent reports, I look forward to seeing more.

Malorian
17-05-2008, 03:15
I should have 1-2 new reports tomorrow. I should get to play high elves for the first time, and then another game against dark elves. But really, Lahboura just beat the emperor twice, doesn't she deserve a break? ; )

Just a fast note on the first WE list (one with the dragon), that's my WE list that the empire player was using to try out while I tried out the new vamps. That very same WE list just won a tournament with a massacre in every game ; ) (Against empire, high elves, and dark elves).

Malorian
18-05-2008, 04:43
Game 11: Return of the Tomb Kings

There had been a time of peace for Lahboura. Her recent victories had earned her respect, and the towns people had learned to live with her. It was furing this period that the Tomb Kings came back.

Again the blowing of sand warned her and within the hour her undead army was assembled outside the town. Across the field was the tomb king army, but this wasn't the same one that she had faced before. This army was lead by a new undefeated tomb king who had recently slaughtered a great bretonnian army.

This army wasn't there so much to get revenge for the previous loss, they were there to prove their superiority.

The tomb king army:

Tomb king w/ destroyer of eternity, collar of shapesh
Prince w/ great weapon, scorpian armor
Prince w/ sword of might, brooch of the great desert, shield, light armor
High priest w/ heiratic jar, cloak of dunes
Priest w/ dispel scroll
Priest w/ dispel scroll

19 skeleton warriors w/ light armor, shield (scorpian prince here)
24 skeleton warriors w/ light armor, shield, champion banner (king here)
3 chariots
3 chariots

23 tomb guard w/ full commad, banner of undying legion (brooch prince here)
Tomb scorpian
Tomb scorpian
4 ushabti
3 carrion

Screaming skull catapult
Screaming skull catapult
Bone giant


This time since he hadn't designed an army to beat me, I used my normal 3000 list.


The board was 4X6. He had a long hill in the back left of his deployment zone with a forest more to the center of the board on the left side. There was another forest on the right center of the board. In the left of my deployment zone there was a hill with a tower on it.

On the left flank he deployed a scorpian, a unit of chariots, and the comandless skeletons. On the hill he had the two catapults with the priests standing in front. To the right of the trees he had from left to right: bone giant, king's skeletons, scorpian, tomb guard, ushabti, carrion. On the right flank he had the other unit of chariots.

I deployed my skeletons w/ mounte vampire on the left flank behind the tower, and to their right were the black knights w/ wight king. Then in the clearing from left to right I had: ghouls, balefire cart, ghouls w/ Lahboura, stone cart, grave guard w/ bunker behind w/ necromancer and helm vampire, balefire cart, ghouls w/ book vampire. Behind the trees on the right I had the cairn wraiths.

He got turn one.

Pre-game thoughts: I was glad to play a team not designed to beat me, but at the same time I knew I would miss those dispel scrolls. My brets hadn't lost in about 20 games before this new TK list smashed them but good. The list had been modified since that game I was told, but just to make it a better all-comers list.

My plan this game is going to be to tie up the left flank with the skeletons holding up in the tower, then concentrate on the center. I had gotten my fair share of gaze of nagash so maybe I could pick off those priests. Other than that I just hoped my wraiths could take out some of those nasty units.


Turn 1 TK:

Everything moves up, the flanks more so than the center. Carrion fly up even closer. In the magic phase the scorpian moves onto the the hill on the left, the chariots on the right move to the right of the trees on the right, and the carrion charge into the ghoul unit on the right. I dispel anything else of importance. The shooting phase is a waste other than a catapult that scatters onto her carrion but fail to wound. In combat the carrion try deperately to kill the book vampire but only do a wound before they crumble into nothing. (I could tell right here that he was going to play the assaination game.)

Turn 1 VC:
Lahboura passes stupidity and always does. Skeletons move into tower while mounted vampire joins ghoul unit to their right. Knights face scorpian. Main line moves up cautiously being ready for the next waves of attacks, carts falling a bit behind and the ghouls on the right waiting for the chariots. The wraiths move into the forest and spread out so I can see out of the front and back. In the magic phase I raise Lahboura's ghouls to 24, and the ghouls on the left to 19. I try to book my wraiths into the chariots but it is dispelled. Gaze of nagash spells are all dispelled. All hellish vigours go off.

Turn 2 TK:

Scorpian charged into the knights. Scorpian and bone giant move forward as do chariots on the left and right flank. Tomb guard face the wraiths while the ushabti hold back. In the magic phase the chariots on the left charge into left ghouls w/ mounted vampire. The other scorpian charges into Lahboura's unit. He also gets it off with the bone giant, but it moves back instead (?I was expecting dual charge?). One catapult misfires and can't choot. The other hits the bunker and kills a couple of ghouls. In combat the scorpian fighting the knights goes after the wightking and does two wounds. I do one back and win combat by 1. The chariots roll poorly for impact hits only killing 3 ghouls. My vampire and ghast then kill a chariot before the riders attack. The chariots try to take out my vampire and fail and after crumbling there is 1 chariot with 1 wound. Before the scorpain even attacks I do three wounds to it. It tries to attack Lahboura but I save the only wound. The scorpian crumbles.

Turn 2 VC:

At this point I had to make a hard choice. The wriaths could either charge the chariots co,ing around the flank or run past the tomb guard to hit the ushabti, but it was questionable if I could make it. Deciding that I didn't want my wraiths wasted on the flank I charge the ushabti and just make it. The skeletons charge out of the tower into the flank of the scorpian. Corpse cart on the right also moves up so that if the tombguard charge it they will be facing into the trees, but covers the wraiths. In the magic phase my gaze of nagash spells are stopped again, but I get off all the hellish vigours. I try to make a unit of zombies to redirect the bone giant but it is dispelled. In combat the last scorpian is killed, but now before it finishes off the wight king. The 1-wound chariot is also destroyed. I roll great for wraiths and they wipe out the ushabti and over run past.

At this point things were looking very good. I hadn't rolled that well for my magic so far, but I had eliminated four of his units and the wraiths were in a good position to either take out his catapults, hunt down the mages roaming around, or even hit the back of a unit.

Turn 3 TK:

All units move up and mages move in to make sure they can charge in. Chariots move around right flank. In the magic phase there wasn't much I could do to stop all the magic and Laboura's ghouls got charged by the kings skeletons, while the giant and tombguard charged across to the grave guard. He also uses his magic to move a priest away from the wraiths. (Before it was set up so I could have charged the priest and overran into the high priest, now they were beside each other and questionably in/out of range.) He also gets off smiting with the king and it's now that I learn he has that crazy weapon. It kills the ghast, a ghoul and does a wound to Lahboura. The catapults destroy the balefire cart on the left. In combat I make a challenge with Lahboura which the king gladly accepts. Lahboura wiffs all her attack and after saving one of two wounds is left with 1 wound. Other wise my ghouls kill some skeletons and I win by 1. My WS 6 grave guard try to take out the prince but fail to do anything. They kill 1 tomb guard. The bone giant only kills two grave guard (thank god) and the rest kill 3. I lose combat and some graveguard crumble.

Turn 3 VC:

Again I had a hard choice: take out the catapults or try the long shot at the priest. I decide to go after the priest (bit closer than high priest) but fail the charge. Skeletons turn to face the TK skeletons coming up the left flank, while the knights (joined by the mounted vamprie) reform to face the flank of the king's skeletons. The near by ghouls move a bit back to give more room to the knights. Balefire cart on the right turns to face the priests. In the magic phase I heal Lahboura and get back more ghouls and graveguard. The stone cart's hellish viguor is stopped. I also made a large unit to the right of the tomb guard but he stopped the vanhels to get thim into combat. In combat Lahboura does 2 wounds to the king (which he fails to bounce) and takes 1 wound back. Ghouls kill some skeletons and I win by a bit. The WS 6 grave guard try to killing blow the prince but again fail to even cause a wound. The giant smashed some of the GG and I lose combat by a bit.

Things still looked pretty good. If I could make it past this turn then the knights wound hit the flank and the king would be in big trouble. Likewise the wraiths were in good position to hit the back of the tomb guard. (Yes I knew they have magic weapons...)

Turn 4 TK:

Chariots on the right charge into ghouls on right flank. Scorpian prince's skeletons charge into my skeletons. All mages move in to help out in combat. High priest is hidin inbetween combats. I stop some attempts to get off smiting and then the king casts it on his own unit with a two. I roll to stop it and get a 1 (GAWH!). He attatcks and causes two killing blows on Lahboura!!! Which I proceed to fail both!!! Dead general : (

Note: This is where I really had to look at his book. I knew that weapon was crazy but I though it just let him have 2 attacks at each model in base to base, and that in a challenge he could only attack the challenger. I didn't know that it auto-hit, was a great weapon, and had killing blow! you can bet I wouldn't forget that again...

End of magic phase I roll for crumbling and I lose a handful of models. Chariots smash the ghouls, the rest crumble (including book vamp) and overrun into grave guards flank. The grave guard take a massive beating (after failing to wound the prince again).

Turn 4 VC:

More models crumble (down to 1 skeleton). Knights charge into flank of king's skeletons. Wraiths charge into a priest behind the tomb guard. Zombies charge into the flank of the tomb guard. Bunker turns to face chariots. In the magic phase I raise the grave guard the best I can and get them to about 12. I also manage to make a small unit of zombies with 1 dice off in behind the chariots. In combat the last of my skeletons are killed. The mounted vampire challenges the king and is killed but I win combat by a good amount. The wraiths kill the priest but only overrun 4 inches and stop 1 inch from the back of the tombguard. In combat, thanks to the zombies, I only lose by a bit.

Turn 5 TK:

Scorpian prince's skeletons charge into the rear of the black knights. In the magic phase he gets some smiting off and kills some of my troops. The catapult misfires and can't fire this turn or the next. In combat I take another beating, but I'm still in the fight.

Turn 5 VC:

More crumbling. Zombies and grave guard are now gone. I go all out with what is left and charge the 3 remaining wraiths into the rear of the bonegiant and the corspe carts charge in. The bunker charges into the chariots. My magic phase is a joke. In combat the wraiths kill the bonegiant and over run into king's skeletons. The wraiths then wipe out the rest of the king's unit, and although all the knights are now dead, I win combat and the king crumbles. The cruse then leaves me with 1 wraith and two small ghoul units fighting the large skeleton unit. Bunker loses combat and some crumble, as does the corpse carts that both crumble to nothing.

Turn 6 TK:

Tomb guard reform and magically charge into ghouls beside them in other combat. In combat my ghouls are wiped out, and my bunker puts up a fight but I'm now down to the two characters.

Turn 6 VC:

I heal necromancer and then both the necromancer and the helm vampire crumble...

Victory to the tomb kings! (10W-1L)


With the battle going her way Lahboura took on the rival general's unit. She had killed a tomb king before and she would do it again. Back and forth they battled, two immortals locked in a deadly battle of skill and pride. The tomb king was falling behind however as Lahboura would heal herself and the Tomb King continues to take damage. Then, just as she thought she had him a burst of sand surrounded them and in a blink of an eye the enemies blade was in her chest. Lahboura looked down in horror as she relized the blade had pierced her heart and looked up in order to curse the tomb king just in time to see the blade swing around again and take off her head.

Her bodyless head was able to see her army rally to her and see her killer crumble to dust, but that was all she could do before everything went to blackness...

Post-game thoughts: Man did that fall apart quickly. Everything was looking so good and then in an instant I had lost the game. My opponent had done the right thing, and gone after my vampires. It seemed like he was just wasting units in the start but once it started paying off then it was all over.

Guess I had to lose some time though :cries:

Things learned:
-Destroyer of eternity is nasty to the extreme... I just didn't expect the beating this weapon gave me. If I face it again I'll be sure i just tie it up in a tarpit.
-I have been pushing the abilities of Lahboura and it finally came back to bite me. Throwing her against the enemy general without a second thought? I deserved to lose.
-Wraiths were the VIP of the game again. I just have to make sure that if I make riaky charges that I have a vampire with vanhels near to fix it.


So there you go. Another battle report, that hopefully helps you a lot more than when I just stomp over an opponent ;)

Thanks for reading.

Malorian
18-05-2008, 06:27
Game 12: Rebirth.

With a gasp air entered her lungs again. Around her all there was was blood. She floated in the center of a pit filled with blood and gore. Quickly feeling her chest and throat Lahboura could feel the wound, still soft and scarred, but it was healing.

Looking around she could see she was still in the same battle field where she had fallen, and a handful of ghouls were running about dragging bodies towards the pit and sqeezing out the blood to fill it. It was this that saved her. A handful of loyal ghouls.

Over the day her strength returned and she was able to leave the pit (although the injury to her neck forced her to walk stifly and carefully). Going back to the town was out of the question, as she was too weak and the chance of the towns people revolting was too great a risk. She would be forced to hide out in the forest and slowly raise up her army again.

Almost a month later her army was back to full strenth. Lahboura wore a scarf to hide the scar around her neck, but other wise she was back on her feet.

It was then that things turned for the worse again.

With a flare of music and waving of flags a new army entered the same battle field that she had just fallen in. It was the high elves, and leading them was none other than Teclis himself.

Most likely the Empire had learned of her lose and asked the High Elves to ensure her demise.

She had been lucky to make it out of that last battle. If she lost again the spells and wards of the elves would surely completely destroy her.

This time she must not fail!


The High elve list (best I can remember anyway):

Teclis
Prince w/ lance, shield, longbow, heavy armor, helm of fortune, amulet of light, ring of fury, on stardragon
Caradryan

15 spearmen w/ full command
12 archers
18 archers

15 swordmasters w/ full command
25 phoenix guard w/ full command, ring of corin (caradryan here)
*one of these had the banner of sorcery*

4 repeater bolt throwers

I used my usual 3000 again and it was on the same board as the last game.

He deployed all the bolt throwers on the hill with Teclis standing in front of them and on either side of Teclis was a unit of archers (large on on eht right). In front of the two stage hill was the sword masters on the left, phoenix guard in the center, and spearmen on the right. The dragon was to the right of the spearmen.

I deployed the skeletons w/ mounted mage behind the tower again and to their right was: wraiths, ghouls, balefire cart, grave guard w/ Lahboura w/ bunker behind w/ necromancer and helm vampire behind, stone cart ghouls w/ wightking, balefire cart. Behind the trees on the right were the knights, and to the right of the trees was the last unit of ghouls w/ book vamp.

Pre-game movement: ghouls on the right move a bit up, but make sure to stay out of LOS of dragon.

High elves get first turn.

Pregame thoughts: This player is relatively new, but he still has a dangerous list. Teclis is only 1 mage but I know he can cause a lot of damage with those irresistable force. That dragon will also be a pain, I might have to take it on with the wraiths but even if the dragon can't hurt me I still don't like my chances (didn't know his list at this point). I'll basically just try and work the flank, avoid the phoenix guard and kill everything else.


Turn 1 HE:

Nothing moves. Magic is out of range other than drain magic that goes off with irresitable force. RBTs almost all miss and the one that does hit only kills two grave guard.

Turn 1 VC:

Lahboura fails stupidity and the unit stumbles forward. Knights move into trees (out of foot range of dragon) and ghouls move a bit more around the edge of the trees. The book vampire runs into the trees just in case. Skeletons move up left flank and wraiths move behind left trees. rest of the line only move up 3 inches (to stay out of range of dragon). All hellish vigours go off (in fact he never stops them). I try to use the book to move the ghouls up, but it's stopped and I roll a 1 and it's gone. Necromancer makes unit of bait zombies in the center of the field so if dragon charged I can multicharge and hit his flank. I don't get anything else off.

Turn 2 HE:

Dragon flies across to be on the other side of the trees of the wraiths. His bound item destroys the magical banner of the black knights. He also gets off fury of khaine on the knights and kills one. I stop drain magic. Everything shoots into the grave guard and kills 12.

Turn 2 VC:

Lahboura passes stupidit, and does for the rest of the game. Knights run just past spearmens LOS to face flank of archers. Skeletons move up and wraiths move up to the left of the dragon. Bait zombies move out of the way and the rest fo the line moves up being careful of the dragons LOS (as limited as it was). Book vampire joins ghouls on right flank and they move up. Lahboura's IoN is stopped by Teclis and she loses the spell (I hate those items...) In the magic phase I made a zombie unit on the left flank facing the closest RBT. Winds of undeath is dispelled. Grave guard are raised back up. Black knight is raised.

Turn 3 HE:

Dragon flies to the left of graveguard. Swordmasters reform to face wraiths. Archers on the left move away towards the right. The spearmen reform to face (and block) black knights. In the magic phase Teclis gets off fury of khaine on the black knights and kills 2. I take them both from the one side so I can easily now get around the spearmen. In a crazy shooting phase the grave guard are brought down to 3 models including Lahboura (Yikes!).

Turn 3 VC:

Wraiths charge the swordmasters. Black knights charge the archers. Ghouls move up the right flank and skeletons continue up the left flank. The zombies on the left move up towards the bolt thrower. Ghouls on the left turn and move towards the dragon to get close enough so Lahboura can run into their unit. The grave guard then reform to face dragon. Helm vampire runs out of bunker to be to the left flank of the dragon. Other units set up to take the dragon charge. In the magic phase, with some great rolling, the grave guadr are broght back up to 19, and a unit of 11 zombies are on the dragons rear. The zombies going towards the RBT get to be 19 big aswell. In the combat phase I kill 3 archers, but they hold. Wraiths kill 7 swordmasters and they hold.

Turn 4 HE:

Dragon flies behind skeletons on the left flank. Phoenix guard moves up a bit. Spearmen turn around to face knights. Zombies are hit with flames of the phoenix by irresitable force and 10 are killed. Lahboura's crown of the damned is destroyed by Teclis (rolled a double 1 to dispel). Drain magic also goes off. Dragons breath and bound item kills 6 skeletons. Everything shoots at the ghout that Lahboura is in and 6 are killed (bad shooting). In combat the swordmasters are beaten and they flee, but are not caught by the wraiths (only 2 left so they can't rally). Knights kill 2 more arcehrs and they hold again.

Turn 4 VC:

Wraiths charge the spearmen and they fail their fear test and flee, and I fail to catch them. Mounted vampire runs behind dragon and skeletons turn to face. Ghouls on right flank move up to fleeing spearmen. Lahboura joins grave guard again and the main line gets ready for the incoming phoenix guard. In particular I move up the left corpse cart and angel it so that if they charge I can counter attack their flank. Magic does nothing. In combat I finally beat the archers and run the fleenig ones down and hit into the first bolt thrower.

Turn 5 HE:

Dragon charges rear fo zombies on left flank. Phoenix guard charge corpse cart. Spearmen rally and face ghouls. Teclis tries to his the wraiths with everything he's got but I dispel everything. In the shooting phase he goes after the first bait zombies with the archers and kills all but two. The three RBT go after grave guard but only kill a few. In combat the zombies are slaughtered. The RBT crew kill a knight but I kill them and overrun into next RBT. The WS 6 corpse cart survives the attacks of the phoenix guard (Caradryan misses all attacks) and even kills 1 before it crumbles.

Turn 5 VC:

Wraiths charge into archer unit. Grave guard move toward phoenix guard flank and are joined by wightking. I vanhels into the phoenix guard and use hand of dust to kill 2. Ghouls are healed to over half. Fallen grave guard are raised. In combat knights kill another RBT and overrun into the next one. The wraiths kill the archers and overrun into Teclis. The grave guard/Lahboura/wightking kill 5 phoenix guard and the flee and are run down.

HE player gives up.

Victory to the vampire counts (11W-1L)


Everything had gone to plan. The main body of the elve army was detroyed, and it was only a matter of time before the rest fell.

Just before the cairn wraiths were able to cut into the Legendary Teclis, the star dragon swooped in and carried him away, but Lahboura didn't care. The threat was over and once again she found herself the ruler of the field.

For a moment she pondered the idea of going back to the town and retaking her place as ruler, but there was no question that that time was over. It was time to take to the road again and find a new place to call home. A place where they didn't know she was a vampire, and a place where her enemies would be less likely to find her.

Post-game thoughts: Good to have such a strong win after that loss. Things could have been different had he used the dragon better, but I'm not going to complain. I'm just glad I didn't charge it with the wraiths... a dragon with magical attacks is scary! We did a mock battle just for fun after the game and it wasn't even funny... I just crumbled to death in the first round without doing anything.

Thanks again for reading.

Brando
18-05-2008, 08:05
No offence, MALORIAN, but the guys you play against suck! Trust me, I know! How many times have my underpowered orcs wallopped your wood elves that are supposedly unbeatable? I'm looking forward to my imperial forces crushing your vampires when I return to Canada! I also look forward to our meeting of the clubs to see just how bad your players are (since they wussed out on us last year).

I would have to agree though with the general trend. If your lists are so good that you are winning every game, TRY SOMETHING NEW! If you have to go magic heavy to win, that doesn't sound to tactical to me personally. Like I said, I look forward to duking it out with your "unbeatable" vampires. I'm assuming the Orc player was Matt, right? Matt's list also isn't the optimal but he plays it and it sounded like he did fairly well against you especially since he is a new player.

Anyway, end rant. I'm just tired of hearing about how "godlike" you and then whenever you come to the WR, you get tronced by myself! (and I'm not good! Most people can attest to that and my lists are NEVER optimized to fight your style of armies...I mean, come on, Orcs...Beastmen? If you can't even beat me when I'm using those armies...pssshh!:):angel:

Malorian
18-05-2008, 14:12
For those that don't understand this inside quip, Brando is a player I face in a gaming group in Edmonton and is the only person to ever beat my wood elves. Be it by getting irresitable force to not let my dragon move, waghing just right to see my dragon on the other side of the trees, or even when I eliminate all his fast cav and warmachines by turn two and then have silly feet from the sky crush all my units running circles around him, something odd always happens... it's a curse I say!

SevenSins
18-05-2008, 15:27
yeeey! you got beaten! Its doable :D
Seriously though, another nice sets of reps and that TK weapon does sound neat.

When Brando gets back and lucks in another win, remember to give us a rep on it :)

Draconian77
18-05-2008, 15:37
Ah, that explains it then, it was a bit of an odd post.

Good reps as usual although I stand by my decision that without killing blow you aren't going to get the VL as they can just heal it next round.

Tarpitting a TK with the Destroyer can be really hard, he adds 3 CR almost all the time and TG with the Icon are usually always at +4-5.

Elf list never really looked that dangerous, so small! Thats what a Teclis and a Stardragon get you though...

Asfaloth
18-05-2008, 21:05
As ever, very nice reports. I do like the Tomb King army, much more interesting than this rather extreme High Elf list.

EvC
18-05-2008, 21:34
Nice reports again, the Tomb King one being the more interesting by far. Caught out by the Destroyer of Eternities eh? That one did me in at my very first tournament some years ago, the especially nasty part is when your opponent unleashes it during the magic phase and still gets to hit every enemy model in base contact with those two attacks. Course in my case, he got lucky and got the killing blow on his first roll (and also for the Black Knight sitting next to my general :D ). Such an outrageous piece of kit that my opponent knew to carry around the Chronicles book with the FAQ in it with him to confirm to be that the combo was legit!

Impressive win against the cheesy High Elf list, that opponent needs to learn that it's not about the special characters and ridiculous monsters, but balance and true skill :D

Prince Facestab
18-05-2008, 22:58
Might want to ask the High Elf player to double check the bit with the Ring of Corin. Unless I'm mistaken, it's an arcane item, which means only mages can take it.

Also, it's single use only. How'd he destroy the second item? Did Teclis cast Vaul's Unmaking?

Malorian
18-05-2008, 23:06
Hmm actaully now that I think of it, it was Teclis that destoryed the helm. I'll fix the report.

Atrahasis
20-05-2008, 15:54
Odds are 1 in 6....so statistically she should be failing once per full-length game.

No. The probability of failing 1 or more times in a six turn game is 66.6%, assuming he is never engaged in combat at the beginning of his own turn.

In 1 in 3 games (for a suitably large sample size of games), he will not fail a single stupidity test.

senorcardgage
20-05-2008, 18:17
No. The probability of failing 1 or more times in a six turn game is 66.6%, assuming he is never engaged in combat at the beginning of his own turn.

In 1 in 3 games (for a suitably large sample size of games), he will not fail a single stupidity test.

When I read that statistic I was sure that you had made an error, but a quick calculaton verifies your statement! That's surprisingly high!

athamas
20-05-2008, 18:26
the odds of failure are 3/36 [going that you will need to total 11 or 12 on 2 dice]

so by pure math hammer thats 1 fail in 2 games.. however, statistics also come into play and Atrahasis is correct IIRC [i cant remember the statistics tables!]

Malorian
20-05-2008, 18:30
It's also biased not only by the times Lahboura is in combat, but also by my opponents giving up early in the game.

But the times I did fail I really felt it. I haven't been hurt by the forced movement, but the loss of powerdice is massive.

Atrahasis
21-05-2008, 12:17
the odds of failure are 3/36 [going that you will need to total 11 or 12 on 2 dice] Quite right; I used Malagant's incorrect probability, don't know how I missed that.


so by pure math hammer thats 1 fail in 2 games.. however, statistics also come into play and Atrahasis is correct IIRC [i cant remember the statistics tables!]

1 or more failures has a probability of about 60% in a 6 turn game where he is never engaged in combat at the start of his own turn, so 2 out of every 5 games should see no failures.

ferda
21-05-2008, 13:16
I really hate one thing on this thread. At least at our czech comunity, its not normal to give up! Giving up is a sign of not beeing fair-play, and a sign of retardness. Noone likes it, it wastes the game.

And tell your dark elf friend to play better lords, malus sux, and equipment for high born is crown of black iron, gaunlet of power, sdc, heavy armour, shield 3/2+sv and +5ward is rly better then 2+sv and retardet weapon :) (gaunlet gives S8 !)

Malorian
21-05-2008, 13:59
Lol, I don't know about it being a sign of retardness, but it's poor sportsmenship for sure.

Arguleon-veq
21-05-2008, 14:07
Maybe its just to do with the region/country you play in. I know here in the UK [North West], my friends, the people at the gaming club I sometimes go and the 2 closest GW stores, you very rarely see people conceed. They almost always carry on even if its just for cinematic last stands or to try and bring a massacre down to a solid/minor loss.

I suppose conceeding early does allow time for another game but it takes a lot of fun out of the original game, win or lose.

Draconian77
21-05-2008, 14:09
I think giving up is acceptable if other people are waiting for a game(Aka: Playing at a store) but me and my friends normally play to the last man(At a house) because you just never know whats going to happen...

Peegore
21-05-2008, 14:14
Quite a while since I've posted on this thread, but I do look in every time batreps are added. And as usual, they don't dissapoint! Always a good read ( the pre- and post- Lahboura fluff is a nice touch )

Particularly enjoyed the Tomb King one. I appreciate the pain... one of my gaming buddies runs a similar list and it's quite a good one.

Keep up the good work!

Kerill
22-05-2008, 03:58
At the club I play its fairly common to concede games, mostly because there is a lack of tables. At the same time though against some armies I can see playing on being a bit of a waste of time, magic VC and Tzeentch Daemons especially since you aren't going to get any meaningful combat unless your opponent allows it, and you can't break your opponents units anyway. Against other armies you can always give it a shot and hope for the dice but if you are down heavily early against VC/Tzeentch there isn;t much to pull it back.

Nice to see the TK win, my favourite army that I don't play (my undead models are in the UK). For the HE list, what was he doing with that dragon all game? I can guess that deployment and the lack of any credible frontal threats would allow Malorian to react well but really only a unit of zombies killed by 600 points monstrosity. It didn't even seem to breathe on anything.

Malorian
22-05-2008, 04:42
In the turn that I was reduced to 2 grave guard, 8 of those kills were from the dragon's breath : (

I think he was using him defensively because he was worried about me vanhelling a unit of zombies into him.

soots
22-05-2008, 06:34
haha. Your game vs high elves.

I cant beleive how much damage his shooting was doing and how easily you negated it.

Malorian
23-05-2008, 06:06
Game 13: First meeting with Bretonnia

Still travelling the country side Lahboura finally came to the edge of the Empire and entered a new land. This place wasn't much different except the townsfolk were poorer, and everyone with power seemed to be on a horse.

It was while scouting out one of these towns that a group of knights fell upon her. They came in charging determined to save HER from the ghouls! Kind of reminded her of Hector Helborg... maybe the Helborgs were actually Bretonnian? But there was no time to think of that now.

Calling upon her army it was time to see if the blood of these knights actually did taste like cheese.


So a friend of mine used my typical 3000 Bret list against me since we finished our apoc game early (orks beat nids by the way:D).

This was the Bret list:

Lord w/ horse, shield, silver lance, virtue of the ideal
Lvl 4 Prophetess w/ chalice
ASB paladin w/ horse warbanner, virtue of duty
Paladin w/ horse, shield, morning star of francasse
Lvl 2 damsel w/ horse, dispel scroll
Lvl 2 damsel w/ horse, dispel scroll

9 KE w/ full command and errantry banner
4X 8 KoTR w/ full command
18 skirmishing archers

8 questing knights w/ full command
5 pegasus knights
5 mounted yeomen w/ musician

5 grail knights


The board was 6X4 and had no terrain (we just wanted to get a fast game in).

I deployed from left to right: skeletons, ghouls w/ wight king, balefire cart, grave guard w/ Lahboura and bunke behind w/ necromancer and helm vampire, stone cart, ghouls, balefire cart, ghouls w/ book vampire, cairn wraiths, black knights w/ mounted vampire.

He deployed from left to right: mounted yeomen, pegasus knights, KoTR w/ damsel, grail knights, KoTR w/ lord, questing knights, KoTR w/ paladin and BSB, KE, KoTR w/ damsel, archers, prophetess (not joined to unit).

Pre-game thoughts: Being on the other side of my knights was actually a bit scary. I had faced my 2000 bret list before, but not the 3000 one... that was a lot of lances... I knew it was going to come down to the fear test and that his lord was gunningfor mine, but mathhammer said I would be fine ; )

Not wanting to give me time to raise my units he decides not to pray and he wins the roll for first turn.


Turn 1 Brets:

All lances move up to be about 16 inches away. Pegasus knights and mounted yeoman move to my left flank. In the magic phase everything is stopped, and he forgets to shoot with his archers.

Turn 1 VC:

Lahboura fails stupidity... *BEEP*! I planned to just move back a bit but now I had to be more aggressive. Wightking runs out of unit to block KoTR on the left and the grail knights. Cairn wriath move as fast as they can to the right flank making sure to stay out of the charge arc of the multi-paladin unit. Everything moves back a bit and the knights wheel a bit in to be ready to counter charge. In the magic phase I get off all the hellish vigours. I make a unit of zombies to block (redirect) the multi-paladin unit from the Lord. I vanhels the cairn wraiths but fail to charge the right most KoTR. I use the book to move Lahboura's unit back. Lahboura then miscasts and although she doesn't harm herself, she kills 5 grave guard. Four of the grave guard are raised back up. Lahboura then vanhels the wightking into the grail knights, who uses hand of dust and wipes them out (wow!)

IMPORTANT NOTE:Since Lahboura failed her stupidity she shouldn't have been able to cast any spells (guess I deserved the miscast). The really changed the course of the battle as his grail knights were destroyed (although we forgot to make the units around roll panic tests). I was thinking about not counting this battle report, but then decided to because had it been the other way around, and I had lost due to forgetting a rule I still would have counted it as a loss against myself.

Turn 2 Brets:

Pegasus knights charge into front of spears. KoTR on the left charge into the ghouls on the left. The lord's unit charges into Lahboura's unit. The questing knights try to charge with the lord but are out of range and fail the charge. Both of the other KoTR fail their fear tests and don't charge. KE also "fail their fear test" and don't charge. (I know they are immune on the turn they charge but I knew they were out of range and he was in a bad enough spot as it was so I didn't bring it up. He was better off not moving them.) In the magic phase he learns the hard way that damsels in units don't have LOS and after those wasted dice I stop the rest of his magic. Archers shoot at knights but do no damage. In combat my skeleton champ makes a challenge and gets killed. My skeletons kill 1 pegasus knight and the other knight (only three could fit into base due to the KoTR besides them) didn't do anything. I win combat and with a 9 manage to run him down. The ghouls don't do any damage and lose 8 models after crumbling. Lahboura makes a challenge and wiffs all her atacks against the lord. The lord then only does 1 wound back. I don't kill any knights and he kills 2 WS 6 grave guard for a drawn combat.

Turn 2 VC:

Cairn wraith charge flank of knights. Ghouls to the right of Lahboura charge into flank of the knights fighting her. The skeletons reform to face the knights fighting the ghouls on the left. Wight king turns around. In the magic phase I get off all the hellish vigours, heal Lahboura, and vanhels the skeletons into the flank. 7 ghouls are raised in the weakened unit (good ol'unholy load stone). In combat the cairn wriaths kill 5 knights but this only means that the knights lose by 2 and they hold. The ghouls and skeletons kill 2 knights, and the knights kill a couple of ghouls. The knights run (away from skeletons and run into the combat and die. The skeletons overrun 6 and are just short of joining the other battle. Lahboura does two wounds to the lord and the lord does 2 wounds to Lahboura... or so we though, until we noticed that the horse had also wounded her... I rolled my 4+ ward and luckily I made it. The WS 6 ghouls killed a knight and the grave guard killed 2 (one by killing blow) and the lord flees and runs into skeletons behind. Ghouls chase 3 inches which blocks the questing knights from charging Lahboura on their turn.

At this point the bret player gave up.

Victory to the vampire counts (12W-1L)


With their lord defeated, and it now very obvious that there was no reason to 'save' the 'fair maiden', the Bretonnian army turned and ran. Quickly healing the damage done by the silver lance Lahboura smiled and commented to one of her handmaidens, "I think I'm going to like this place. You can get your self into an all out war and be done in time for breakfast."

The handmaiden made a slight smirk and then they continued their travels.

Post-game thoughts: I think that was my fastest win ever, but there were a lot of mistakes made in this game and some lucky/unlucky rolls made. For those reading this please keep in mind that this game was played after a 3.5 hour game of Apocalypse and several drinks...

Things learned from this game:
-STOP BEING STUPID WITH LAHBOURA!- There was absolutedly NO reason why she wasn't in the bunker first turn. It was just me being lazy and not wanting to move her back and forth. Then I fail a stupidity test and instead of her being safe behind the lines she almost stumbled into a death trap.
-Make sure you know the rules- I should have remembered that stupidity meant I couldn't cast spells, but my opponent should have known that too. This is a very important thing for all you non-vampire players out there to rememebr since the crown of the damned is so popular.
-It's neat to face your own armies- It was great (or rather scary) to see what it was like to face one of my own armies. Something that would be nice to do more often and to do to others (use one of their armies so they can experience what it's like).

Thanks for reading and sorry the battle report was so short.:angel:

athamas
23-05-2008, 06:33
nice report, thanks,


seemed like brets bounded off you..

gd09garett
23-05-2008, 18:17
Game 12: Rebirth.

SNIP

In the magic phase Teclis gets off fury of khaine on the black knights and kills 2. I take them both from the one side so I can easily now get around the spearmen.

Unless I have missed something in the 7th edition rules, this could be illegal. Models have to be removed equally from both sides leaving those in the middle.
So if a unit of 5 models suffers 2 wounds, 1 2 3 4 5
models 1 and 5 must be removed. I lost count of how many knights there were so, if there were an even number it might okay. Clarification please?

Volker the Mad Fiddler

gd09garett
23-05-2008, 18:32
Game 13: First meeting with Bretonnia
SNIP

So a friend of mine used my typical 3000 Bret list against me since we finished our apoc game early (orks beat nids by the way:D).

This was the Bret list:

Lord w/ horse, shield, silver lance, virtue of the ideal
Lvl 4 Prophetess w/ chalice
ASB paladin w/ horse warbanner, virtue of duty
Paladin w/ horse, shield, morning star of francasse
Lvl 2 damsel w/ horse, dispel scroll
Lvl 2 damsel w/ horse, dispel scroll

9 KE w/ full command and errantry banner
4X 8 KoTR w/ full command
18 skirmishing archers

8 questing knights w/ full command
5 pegasus knights
5 mounted yeomen w/ musician

5 grail knights

SNIP

Since this is your army, why the Ideal on the Lord?

Volker the Mad Fiddler

Malorian
23-05-2008, 19:25
If you are going to pay the points to have a lord rather than just another full lance he better be able to pull his own weight.

With this setup he has 5 str 6 attacks that auto hit, so usually all he needs is a 2+ and you have an extar +5 CR right there. Obviously he's also a character killer (although he fell short doing that with Lahboura).

Now you can do this with other set ups too, but the thing I like best about this setup is that after the charge he still has 5 str 4 attacks that autohit (you still use magical lances after the charge, and unlike the kingblow lance, the silver lance isn't just on the charge) with a fairly good init.

To be honest though, I just use him because I love the model. Taking another lance would be MUCH better 90% of the time. He isn't in my 2000 list.

gd09garett
23-05-2008, 19:39
If you are going to pay the points to have a lord rather than just another full lance he better be able to pull his own weight.

With this setup he has 5 str 6 attacks that auto hit, so usually all he needs is a 2+ and you have an extar +5 CR right there. Obviously he's also a character killer (although he fell short doing that with Lahboura).

Now you can do this with other set ups too, but the thing I like best about this setup is that after the charge he still has 5 str 4 attacks that autohit (you still use magical lances after the charge, and unlike the kingblow lance, the silver lance isn't just on the charge) with a fairly good init.

To be honest though, I just use him because I love the model. Taking another lance would be MUCH better 90% of the time. He isn't in my 2000 list.

Doesn't the overall drop in Ld cause you problems though? Ld 8 fails about 25% of the time, while Ld 9 fails only 1/6 [16%]. I am foremost an Empire player and I find LD 9 the most important thing a general can provide.

Volker the Mad Fiddler

Malorian
23-05-2008, 20:03
The lower Ld can be a problem, but usually isn't. When at full strength you need to lose 3 models to have to take a panic test from losses, and pretty you're in combat on round two.

Fear/terror can be a problem, but you send the questing/KE/grail knight at them. Then of course there are armies where everything causes fear (like this last game). In this case it can really hurt, but LD 8 isn't really that much worse for these occations.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's a risk, but one that's worth it.

Brando
25-05-2008, 09:45
Unless I have missed something in the 7th edition rules, this could be illegal. Models have to be removed equally from both sides leaving those in the middle.
So if a unit of 5 models suffers 2 wounds, 1 2 3 4 5
models 1 and 5 must be removed. I lost count of how many knights there were so, if there were an even number it might okay. Clarification please?

Volker the Mad Fiddler

Well, I commented on this but apparently the forum heads are against a little good natured taunting between fellow players...:angel:

At any rate, this is correct. So, unfortunately Malorian, you cheated unintentionally. Most of the time it doesn't matter too much, but RAW (well, not even RAW, what the actual rule says!) is that you take evenly off of each side. This means that maybe you should have 2 losses (and a 3rd will be coming when I return home...I'll fight you with my piece of crap even more neutered than they were before beasts...if I lose, whatev, I've got a crappy army but if I win I demand obescience!)

OldMagik
25-05-2008, 15:48
You should try LM not all our soldiers cause fear but we have cold blooded which help our LD and help us make ourselves a lot harder to rout. And if there is a 2nd Gen slann all the better u'll be fighting a magic that may be equal to urs.

Malorian
25-05-2008, 16:04
Well, I commented on this but apparently the forum heads are against a little good natured taunting between fellow players...:angel:

At any rate, this is correct. So, unfortunately Malorian, you cheated unintentionally. Most of the time it doesn't matter too much, but RAW (well, not even RAW, what the actual rule says!) is that you take evenly off of each side. This means that maybe you should have 2 losses (and a 3rd will be coming when I return home...I'll fight you with my piece of crap even more neutered than they were before beasts...if I lose, whatev, I've got a crappy army but if I win I demand obescience!)

*Checks book*... hmmm seems your right. I might still have been able to get around though. The two on one side just made it dead easy. And I wouldn't say that one thing caused me to win. If I couldn't charge around I could have easily at least run past and maybe even vanhels in. (Not to mention my wraiths were all over him)

Old magic: One player in my group other thanh me plays LM, but he never uses them. He says they have won too much and they are retired. I guess he always spent 1/3rd of his points in skinks. The slann would be very dangerous to my wraiths though.

Dexter099
25-05-2008, 16:45
I thought it was models furthest from thte right in the last rank are removed.

EvC
26-05-2008, 13:56
Silly Bretonnian game, not worth the effort of you writing it up really! No terrain? Forgetting the main drawback to stupidity on your Lord? That's not warhammer, that's two kids with toy soldiers pointing them at each other and shouting "BANG YOUR DEAD!!!" (oh wait you said you'd been playing 40K beforehand ;) ). Fun I'm sure, especially after a few beers, but should be stricken from the record :D On the other hand, removing a couple of models from one side of a unit is not the end of the world, yeesh, no need to dredge up every little thing guys!

LiMunPai
26-05-2008, 23:56
I've read through all the batreps so far.

Just wanted to let you know that they are really cool and highly informative for a fairly new player like myself. With 3 players (about 20% of our regulars) playing VC and a new fourth player about to pick them up, it's really useful to know how to beat them.

Just in general, reading about how you've played your games has improved my overall play with my Wood Elves.

Thanks for the batreps and I hope you continue posting reports as you play games.

Kerill
27-05-2008, 09:19
Nice report as usual, it seems stupidity has been biting a bit more heavily lately. I'm always happy to see the Brets go down (one of two armies I'll never collect)

Dark_Mage99
27-05-2008, 14:13
Nice reports, Malorian. Looks like you've got a nice list there, and people are still trying to figure out ways of defeating it.

A quick question, though... where are people getting their statistics for failed stupidity tests from?

The odds for failing a stupidity test at Ld 10 are 3/36.

Edited for foolishness.

Gazak Blacktoof
27-05-2008, 14:39
Nope, 3 in 36.

Chances of a double 6 are 1 in 36. Chances of a 5 and 6 or 6 and 5 (total 11) are 2 in 36 for a combined total of 3 in 36

OR 1 in 12.

Dark_Mage99
27-05-2008, 17:07
Nope, 3 in 36.

Chances of a double 6 are 1 in 36. Chances of a 5 and 6 or 6 and 5 (total 11) are 2 in 36 for a combined total of 3 in 36

OR 1 in 12.

Ah, sorry - believe it or not I thought I had written 3/36. I had it worked out at 1/12 as well, didn't think to look back at it.

Malorian
27-05-2008, 17:38
Just a question, are you guys more interested in battle reports from regular games (2000) or bigger games (3000/4000)?

I'm four models off from having my 4000 list but didn't know if you are interested in games that big.

By the way, to get to 4000 I plan to add:

black coach
5 cairn wraiths (new unit)
vampire w/ master of the black arts, nightmare, staff of damnation
Lvl 3 Vampire lord w/ master of the black arts, ethereal (goes with wraiths)

Combined with the rest of the army it would be exactly 4000. The new caster wouldn't have to be a summoner and could put her power dice into the funner spells like winds of undeath, curse of ages, and gaze of nagash. Plus since her dice aren't as critical I can have the black coach start near her and eat her dice.

Thoughts?

g0ddy
27-05-2008, 21:08
Youll need a 5th core wont you? (going from the list in the OP)

(EDIT : Ugh.. missed the 'upgrade to 3000 pts section')

~ zilla

Malorian
27-05-2008, 21:13
Four units of ghouls (3X15 + 10), and 1 unit of skeletons.

I'm legal : )

I thought about another unit of ghouls, but I'm also trying to stay within the restaints of 1 case and 1 shoe box ; )

dinobot
28-05-2008, 01:44
Bigger games would be nice once in awhile, but it'd probably be hard to keep track of what's happening.

Good job on these reports though, I always like reading them.

Dark_Mage99
28-05-2008, 01:57
I agree with dino; occasionally it's great to read larger ones - but usually the 2-3000 point range is about right.

Peegore
28-05-2008, 07:43
At my ripe old age of 39. my brain has problems handling 2000pt battles, never mind 4000pt battles :) But an occasional 'Big Bash' is nice to read...

Draconian77
28-05-2008, 16:08
I'm a fan of 2250-2500pt games, the balance between units is normally quite good but as stated by everyone else occassional "This is what I own, lets play" battles are good aswell.

Kerill
28-05-2008, 18:42
Big games are good for a change, but they really need maps or photos to keep track of things.

Dexter099
28-05-2008, 19:36
Enjoyable reports. Anyone want me to review these last few army lists again?

Malorian
28-05-2008, 20:03
I'd be interested in what you think about the Bret list... since it's mine : )

Draconian77
28-05-2008, 20:51
Don't you know that all Bret lists are cheese? :rolleyes:

Seriously, could have 100 Peasants in your army and you would still get called cheesy by some players just for playing Brets...

Malorian
28-05-2008, 21:45
Don't you know that all Bret lists are cheese? :rolleyes:

Seriously, could have 100 Peasants in your army and you would still get called cheesy by some players just for playing Brets...

Exactly why I had to retire my brets and start ogres...

Dexter099
29-05-2008, 00:49
Another man's cheese is another man's brilliance. Always.
http://www.fightingtigersofveda.com/roars6.htm

What's wrong with winning?
http://www.fightingtigersofveda.com/roarswin.html

I will get to evaluation of the lists. ;)

Malorian
29-05-2008, 03:40
Game 14: It's a bird! It's a plane! It's two frik'n dragons!

Still on the move Lahboura and her ghoul horde continued to travel the plains and forests of Bretonnia. The knights themselves had decided to leave her alone and so at peace she was able to keep at the task of perfecting her dark art.

It would have been be foolish to think the peace would last, but what came took her totally by surprise. At first it seemed to be a regular dark elve raiding party across the field, but when two great shadows swarmed over them she quickly knew this was no raiding party.

Two highborns had tracked her down to get revenge for the defeat of their kin, both of which stood upon great black dragons. One dragon, with large golden wings, seemed to be eyeing her up like dinner...

Dark elves army:

Highborn w/ hydra blade, armor of darkness, black dragon "Goldy"
Highborn w/ some crazy weapon, blood armor, black dragon "Blacky"
*One of the dragons had a 4+ ward save*
Lvl 2 sorceress w/ 2 dispel scrolls
Lvl 2 sorceress w/ 2 dispel scrolls

10 warriors w/ repeater crossbows
10 warriors w/ repeater crossbows
10 warriors w/ repeater crossbows
10 warriors w/ repeater crossbows

20 witch elves w/ full command, banner of murder
20 executioners w/ full command, banner from SoC that lets them auto-rally
5 shades

4 repeater bolt throwers


The board was 4X6. I got to set up the terrain and I put a big long hill at the back of his deployment zone (keep him happy), there was a forest on the left flank, a building in the back left of my deployment zone, a forest in the right of my deployment zone, and a hill with a tower on if in the center right of the field.


He deployed the four units of crossbowmen on the hill (ones on the ends were further back) w/ the sorceresses in th center units. The witches were to the left ofthe hill. The executioners were to the right of the hill. Goldy was behind the forest on the left (looking down the left flank). Blacky was behind the hill/tower on the right (looking to the center of the field). Shades scouted into the trees on the left.

I deployed the black knights w/ mounted vampire on the left flank (facing goldy), then from left to rigt there was: ghouls, balefire cart, ghouls, stone cart, graveguard w/ bunker behind w/ helm vampire, Lahboura and necromancer, balefire cart, ghouls w/ wightking, skeletons w/ book vampire, and finally the ghouls (basically lined up with the hill/tower.

Pre-game movement: Both ghoul units on the left move about 5 inches up since the forest blocks the LOS from the dragon.

Pre-game thougts: Excited to use my freshly painted ghouls I was ready fr a good game. I knew had had made this list to beat me, but that didn't bother me so much as the two dragons worried me. I have been pretty good with hiding from one flying assassin, but I highly doubt I can hide from two. I know he would have four dispel scrolls, so one magic phase would be shut down. Basically this game came down to hiding from the dragons and hoping I can sneak something down the field to deal with the crossbowmen. It didn't help that the wraiths would have to hide from both dragons as they surely each had magical items. I was also dismayed that all my vampires even up with raise the dead. Lahboura also had winds of undeath and vanhels, but since there would be little magic resistance I was hoping to get some better spells.

Dark elves get first turn.


Turn 1 DE:

Goldy flies infront of the ghouls on the left, Blacky flies to the other side of the hill to be just within charge range of the skeletons and also threatening the wraiths. Both the witch elves and the executioners move up. The shades move to the edge of the woods so they can shoot the ghouls but be out of LOS of the knights. In the magic phase I let chillwind go off (thought it was only 18 inches) and it kills 1 ghoul in front of Goldy. Rest of magic is out of range. All four RBTs shoot at the same ghoul unit (single shot) and only 1 hits, killing 3 ghouls. Goldy breaths fire on the other ghoul unit killing 9. The shades and two forward crossbowmen units pick away at the ghouls and after it's all said and done both the left ghoul units are 5 or 7 ghouls strong. (I realize that had he put all his fire power into 1 unit he could have wiped it out, but I knew his plan was to make them both weak so that I didn't have a strong enough unit to deal with Goldy on it's own, and then shut down my next magic phase.)

Turn 1 VC:

Lahboura passes her stupidity test. Left-most ghouls charge into the dragon. (The shades might have been in range, but I had to be careful.) The knights wheel around for a flank charge. Graveguard move a bit up and all vampires on foot join that unit. The ghouls on the right move a tiny bit towards the executioners (I didn't want to engage them until I had the dragons pinned down). The skeletons turn to face Blacky. Due to the angle of Blacky the wraiths are just able to move up and to the right and stay out of his LOS. Carts shuffle to cover more units. In the magic phase all my hellish vigours go through. I try to use the rod of flaming death on the witches, but it is dispelled and I roll a 1 so it's gone. I try to use the book on the ghouls in combat, but it's dispelled. I then go to raising and my regular vampires manage to get the unit in combat up to 14 and the unengaged unit up to 13. This has drawn out most of his scrolls as I rolled crazy on my 4+. Then Lahboura goes and can't roll a 3+ to save her life on 5 dice. The one time she does get IoN off it draws out the last dispel scroll. In combat my WS6 ghast makes a challenge and get 2 poisons and a wound on the highborn, but the 2+ save saves from from all. My ghast is crushed and 3 crumble.

Turn 2 DE:

Witch elves charge into the ghouls fighting Goldy. Executioners move only slightly forward. Blacky flies to the flank of the skeletons. Shades move into forest to get out of LOS of knights. Mages both move up. In the magic phase he cast doom bolt on the unengaged ghouls on the left, I rolled 4 dice to stop it and got triple 1's so it goes through and kills 2 ghouls. He then casts black horror, I again roll 4 dice and roll triple 1's so it goes through. This kills 8 ghouls and does a wound to the stone cart befind. In the shooting phase the RBTs destroy the wounded cart and fail to damage the balefire one. The two forward unit of crossbowmen then fire at the reduced ghoul unit and I'm left with only the ghast (he rolled really badly)(don't know why he didn't move up the other two crossbowmen units). Blacky breaths fire into the skeletons but because it's so close it only kills 2 skeletons and 1 ghoul. In combat the ghouls all attacked the witches and killed 3, but then the ghouls are wiped out. The witches would have overrun into the wounded ghoul unit, but since it was down to the ghast they ran by and hit into the balefire cart.

Turn 2 VC:

*This would be a critical turn. I know had a dragon facing the front and the back of my line and there was no where Lahboura could hide that couldn't be dual charged. My only hope was to tie them down now.*

Lahboura passes stupidity. Knights charge the flank of the witchelves. Lone ghast faces the other flank. Skeletons turn to face Blacky. Wraiths start moving back to threaten executioners and dragon. Deciding that I probably couldn't stop Goldy the grave guard turn to face him. In the magic phase both hellish vigours go off. I try draw out some DD by increasing the lone ghasts unit with the regular vampires, which he lets though, but I only increase them to 10 after 9 unopposed PD. With 1 PD the necromancer makes a unit of 12 zombies on Blacky's flank between him and my board edge (don't want them being shot up by repeater crossbows). I then use the book on the skeletons, but it's dispelled and I roll a 1 so it's gone. Lahboura then does me proud and vanhels the skeletons into Blacky. In the combat phase my WS6 black knights only kill 2 witchelves, and the cart kills none, but after I lose 1 knight they still break and run into the ghoul unit on the other flank. The skeleton champ makes a challenge and gets crushed while 2 more crumble.

Turn 3 DE:

Goldy charges into graveguard (here we go). Shades move up to edge of forest but out of LOS of knights. In the magic phase, thanks to the balefire carts, nothing goes through other than black horror which I stop. In the shooting phase the RBTs rip into my knights (forgot I was showing my flank to them) and wipe them all out including my vampire. They also do 2 wounds to the balefire cart. Shades shoot at the balefire cart and destroy it. Crossbowmen fire at the 10 ghouls and kill 4. In combat skeletons all attack the highborn, but the blood armor saves him. Blacky rolls bady and only kills a couple of skeletons, I barely win combat and with a 10 the dragon runs off the board. In the main combat Goldy makes a challenge with the graveguard champ takes. The dragon does 4 wounds but I make three of four 6+ saves (makes up for all those 1's to dispel), and although the highborn kills him, Blacky loses by a good deal and flees into the ghouls behind and is crossfired.

At this point the dark elves give up.

Victory to the vampire counts (13W-1L)


Using her black art to bog down the one dragon with skeletons Lahboura's attention turned to the massive dragon charging towards her. Sending her champing forward she was amazed at how well he fought even though the elve general final fell him. The dragon was horrible out numbered however, and using common sense the general fled... If only he knew those ghouls were waiting for him... The ghouls dragged the massive dragon down and ate at it's flesh. The highborn screamed as a bone shard was thrust into his neck.

That being taken care of she turned her attentions to the other dragon only to find it fleeing with the skeletons waiving their sprears behind.

The sight of the dragons defeat sent the rest of the army in retreat. Lahboura kept her forces back (it could be a trap after all) and with a wink sent the wraiths after them.

If things kept up like this, Bretonnia was going to be a great place to live.


That ended quickly... I can only accredit it it luck and poor judgement on his part. Dragons just can't take on blocks on the front. Had I been him I would have sent Goldy at a different unit. I mean I had 3 characters other than Lahboura in that unit that could have held him off so it's not like he was going to be able to assassinate her anyway. But who am I to complain.

I wish we could have played the game out but he really didn't want to continue and a high elve player showed up who wanted to play him (dragon fight!).

Anyway, thank you for reading. I'll probably take a bit of a break from the vamps for a bit so it might be something like a month before my next report... but who knows when some fool will challenge me... :evilgrin:

Dexter099
29-05-2008, 05:43
Looks nasty. But... Those dragons sure suck up a lot of points.

EvC
29-05-2008, 11:06
Massacre for Malorian.

Boss_Salvage
29-05-2008, 12:31
Massacre for Malorian.
QFT. Next?


Just a question, are you guys more interested in battle reports from regular games (2000) or bigger games (3000/4000)?

I prefer 2000 pointers myself, as that's as large as I can / care to play myself. Beyond that it becomes madness :rolleyes:

But then at giant points we get pycho matchups like this Double Dragons stuff :wtf:

- Salvage

Peegore
29-05-2008, 13:16
I'd agree with the above. I'd be surprised if Malorian gets anything less than a Solid Victory.

My only initial thought was kamikaze dragon(s) into the Vamp Lord unit to take her out early doors, but static CR, champion challenges and Dark Elven flimsyness would usually deter a seasoned gamer from this tactic. But two in the front. One taking the challange from the champion while the other focuses all hits on the Vamp Lord.... Win big/Lose big. Surely the nature of this DE army list in the first place...?

Malorian
29-05-2008, 14:54
Battle report is up.

With two dragons I was sure you guys would have bet on him. I had it as 50/50 when I saw his list, and that's only because he still doesn't have a lot of experience using them.

valdrog
29-05-2008, 18:25
Wow... readign all the battle reports makes me think that either:

a- you are a very good general
b- the vampire counts are broken as hell
c- you are playing crappy opponents.

or maybe is a combination ?? A very good general that plays a broken army versus crappy opponents ? :D hehehe

Nice reports bud, keep them comming , makes for fun reading.

all_seeing_eye
30-05-2008, 00:07
Very nice report, very nice indeed. Always a good read.
Who knows some fool may just challenge you in the coming future.

Dark_Mage99
30-05-2008, 00:14
I think it's more A with the occasional hint of C.

Draconian77
30-05-2008, 00:47
In fairness its a combo of all 3. Although I don't think Vampires are "broken as hell" I just think their Heroes and Lords need to cost more or do less.

Really a good general is one that doesn't make mistakes or rely on luck 50% of the time!

A bad general is one that relies on luck too much, makes mistakes and gives up too easily.

IMO.

Malorian
30-05-2008, 00:54
For those that don't know all_seeing_eye is the tomb kings player of the group, and he has decided to bless this thread with his first post ever!

So if you want hints on how to beat this army, ask him :)

soots
30-05-2008, 01:09
Firstly Mandalorian, Any sized battle report is good. You're probably the best reporter here, so the more the merrier.

Secondly, DAMN I HATE HEROHAMMER/DRAGON armies! They just have fun until they lose their kitchen sink units then concede. IMO, they should be made to play out the remainder of the battle with no chance of winning as punishment for fielding such a ****** army.

Nothings worse than playing against a gunline, getitng shot to bits, but finally getting into melee, then opponent conceding before you get rewarded for doing it tough and you dont get to roll any attack dice.

dinobot
30-05-2008, 01:56
Firstly Mandalorian, Any sized battle report is good. You're probably the best reporter here, so the more the merrier.

Secondly, DAMN I HATE HEROHAMMER/DRAGON armies! They just have fun until they lose their kitchen sink units then concede. IMO, they should be made to play out the remainder of the battle with no chance of winning as punishment for fielding such a ****** army.

Nothings worse than playing against a gunline, getitng shot to bits, but finally getting into melee, then opponent conceding before you get rewarded for doing it tough and you dont get to roll any attack dice.

And it's not like they have nothing left to fight for anyways. Just trying to limit your opponent to a minor victory or maybe even a draw would be kind of fun. The funnest game I've had in Civilization was one where I was losing and just holding out with a few cities on some peninsula:)

Volapyk
30-05-2008, 14:02
Loosing can indeed be fun, turning a massacre into a minor defeat can be damn hard and you just have to enjoy the challenge, ofcourse if this is a repeative situation it will grow frustrating rather quickly.

Great reports Malorian. Would like to know how you feel about the Unholy lodestone upgrade to the corpse cart compared to the balefire, personaly I love the balefire if you have 2 of them, it dosnt usualy feel like the lodestone pays off.

Malorian
30-05-2008, 14:40
Balefire is great and has saved me from several spells already. The unholy loadstone is also good though. It only has to raise an extra 25 points to be worth it, so after four IoN on ghouls it has already more than paid for it selve. If used on graveguard it goes even faster.

My only beef with it so far is the 6 inch range. I keep my main line pretty packed together and still it seems that I end up being just out sometimes.

The other obvious problem is that it doesn't stack, so you don't want to go nuts on loadstones, where as balefires do stack ; )

Summary: Take 1 loadstone, and all the rest balefire.

sainthale1988
30-05-2008, 18:06
and excellent synopsis on cart theory. i only have one (love the model) and went lodestone, as i think you need at least 2 bailfires and/or the skullstaff or dispel staff to make to worth while.
whens the next report and who is the likely victim ;)

.H.
30-05-2008, 20:12
Sorry for a noob question, but why give your vampire heroes Master Of The Black Arts? They can only cast one spell, on 2 dice, so what is the 3rd for?

Wouldn't Dark Acolyte and Summon Ghouls be better so you could in theory cast IoN twice on 2+ (if your cart is around)?

I'm probably missing some fundamental reason why this isn't better, but i'm new to fantasy...

EvC
30-05-2008, 20:24
Well, he can attempt to cast a spell like Invocation of Nehek three times, because they're Vampires and it's a Necromantic spell. The cart doesn't help him cast IoN, nor is it possible to cast a spell on 2+ (you need to roll a 3 or more).

ferda
30-05-2008, 20:54
Your dark elf opponent realy has to be retardet. Bad items, bad magic standarts(soul shadows one should have witch elves for ****in** sake!!!)bad units combinations, two dragons with retardet general just plainly suck... oh my god, 20 withch elves. 12 is fair enought to break any unit VC unit except GG charging. why the hell he had there 40 unuseful xbowmen, while he had two dragons?? Tell him to use two dragons, 4 chariots, two groups of cold one knighgts and 3x dark riders. hell-fast and deadly army, Any decent player should have beaten you with two dragons...

Malorian
30-05-2008, 21:35
.H.: I thought long and hard if I should go MoBA or a mastery and acolyte, and this is what I finally came up with: When you already have a dedicated raiser (lord) then the pool dice are out of the equation. A lvl 2 vamp with a mastery has 2 dice casting on a 3+ (1.3 casts). A Lvl 1 vamp w/ MoBA gets 3 dice and is casting on a 4+ (1.5 casts). So it is mathamatically better to go with the master of black arts vamp. I can't raise a unit above starting strength, but that just means I use them first.

Ferda: ummmm... I wouldn't call him a retard (especially because he reads these forums) but his main issue is that he is stubborn. He's been playing for a long time and knows what he likes and goes with it. I agree that there are WAY too many elves in that unit, but to be fair when that unit does hit you are basically screwed...

I also take a bit of offense that you say "Any decent player should have beaten you with two dragons...". I think I'm a good enough general that the correct phrase would be "Better players would have put up a better fight with two dragons..."

Peegore
30-05-2008, 23:22
Mr Ferda certainly doesn't mince his words...

What I find infinitely 'interesting' is the number of people who " woulda beat ya if they'd have taken their blah blah blah army list " The key portion of that last phrase being "blah blah blah"

If I could only devise a B.S. filter and flog it to forums such as Warseer, I'd make millions ;) Seriously, we batrep posters expect a degree of critique, but that sort of reply verges on disrespectful in my opinion.

We take the armies we enjoy playing and we take the time to put together a report for all to read. And if you enjoy reading them and want them to keep coming, this certainly isn't the way to show encouragement.

Sorry for venting in your thread Malorian. Personally ( and this gets me back to the thread in hand :) ) I think games like this, with an army of such a diverse and unusual composition, make for an unusual read. And all the better for it.

Keep them coming Malorian. And to his mate who may have read all this... don't let the odd negative post bother you.... the battle was entertaining! That's all that matters surely...

Arguleon-veq
31-05-2008, 01:53
Congrats on the win. I agree with Peegore though on the whole 'Id win with....etc etc'. You even hear it at GW stores, its just sad. Im on the complete other side with Mals army, I have a hard time seeing how any of mine would beat it by the numbers.

I'd actually quite like to face 2 Dragons, I love Dragons and its not often you see 2 on the table. Difficult to beat but it would be fun.

It would be interesting to see this list against another that is really tooled out for the magic phase. Teclis HE [with other mages too though lol], Tzeentch Daemons etc.

EvC
31-05-2008, 11:07
I think an element of criticism is fair though: when the Dark Elf player is firing single shots at Ghouls with his Bolt Throwers, and plays so badly he loses his Dragons and has given up by turn three, that doesn't make for a good battle report. I want to see Malorian face opponents with armies and talent somewhere near his own capability!

ferda
31-05-2008, 21:18
.H.: I thought long and hard if I should go MoBA or a mastery and acolyte, and this is what I finally came up with: When you already have a dedicated raiser (lord) then the pool dice are out of the equation. A lvl 2 vamp with a mastery has 2 dice casting on a 3+ (1.3 casts). A Lvl 1 vamp w/ MoBA gets 3 dice and is casting on a 4+ (1.5 casts). So it is mathamatically better to go with the master of black arts vamp. I can't raise a unit above starting strength, but that just means I use them first.

Ferda: ummmm... I wouldn't call him a retard (especially because he reads these forums) but his main issue is that he is stubborn. He's been playing for a long time and knows what he likes and goes with it. I agree that there are WAY too many elves in that unit, but to be fair when that unit does hit you are basically screwed...

I also take a bit of offense that you say "Any decent player should have beaten you with two dragons...". I think I'm a good enough general that the correct phrase would be "Better players would have put up a better fight with two dragons..."


Dont u want two guys switch armies? You would play once for delves, the other guy Vcs. I want to see if you are a superior general or not.

However, my apologization.

I like your btreports, but i dont like Vampire counts. It is so easy army to play with.
If u played any other army, except VCs and Daemons, I would be a happy man. Would be much funnier to read breps of armies who actually can lose.

ferda
31-05-2008, 21:20
I think an element of criticism is fair though: when the Dark Elf player is firing single shots at Ghouls with his Bolt Throwers, and plays so badly he loses his Dragons and has given up by turn three, that doesn't make for a good battle report. I want to see Malorian face opponents with armies and talent somewhere near his own capability!

Again I repeat. In my country, its not normal to give up. Its horrible and the other player has right to kick your ass so badly, you wouldnt give up in third round next time.

Thats about the "retard" issue. Im so disguised seeing somebody giving up while he has 1/2 of the army living. Your lord still can misscast double 1s and your opponent can win...:cries:

Malorian
31-05-2008, 23:59
The people I play don't like to switch armies. I've suggested it before and it was a no go (I was really looking forward to using Karl Franz...), and the DE player doesn't like using unpainted models. (I hate painting... although I've been painting the VC's slowly...)

I know if I had control of the two dragons that I would have won... especially if he made the same mistake with the black knights that I did ; )

cox61171
06-06-2008, 14:57
Malorian, having just read all the reports I have some questions, in your reports you use hellish vigour but it doesn't exist as a spell anymore so where is that coming from?. Also what is this bunker you keep refering to, is it a piece of scenery that you always use?. In one report you used your lady to go first as she was int 7 against wardancers who had the ASF rule, how is that possible as it makes no difference even if you were int 10 you would still go second?.

Overall cracking battle reports and as someone who plays Vamps (badly I might add) it's nice to read of someone doning very well with them. Keep up the good work!!

Malorian
06-06-2008, 15:02
The corpse carts cast hellish vigour (ASF).

A bunker is 10 models in the back of your line that your weak characters hide in. That's what I use my unit of 10 ghouls for.

I also had ASF thanks to the corpse cart, so since I had the higher init I went first.

cox61171
06-06-2008, 15:12
Malorian, cheers for that, I got confused and didn't check the corpse cart so thanks again, like the idea of the bunker very funny, but seems to work most of the time.

valdrog
06-06-2008, 15:26
So do VCs actualyl have ANY units that are worth crap ,just like evry other army, or are they all just strong and show no weakness ?
It just looks like GW is going with the trend of making stronger and stronger lists, High Elves, now Vampire counts, i wonder what the next one will look like.

You are pretty good Malorian, but you have to admit that the ability to raise dead with the VCs as strong as it is now, pretty much makes the army very frustating to play against and can negate all the work your opponent did to take a couple of units down in strength ( as shown several times on your reports ).

The army is almost imossible to beat in the hands of a good general.

EvC
06-06-2008, 16:17
Skeletons aren't so good, which is a shame since their models are excellent (compared to the crappy new Ghouls). But whereas Skeletons are fielded sometimes, there are some units you'll rarely see, like Bat Swarms...

There's a lot of variables at 3K. A good player can get through the harder stuff in the VC army to kill the weaker stuff at the centre, like in the Tomb King game.

dinobot
06-06-2008, 20:55
BAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

Why oh why do people have to start complaining in random threads like this? Go start your own thread if you want to talk about how overpowered VC are in your strange little world.

Malorian
07-06-2008, 05:15
Game 15: Deamons...

The Bretonnian fields and forests had been good to Lahboura. She had come to enjoy these lands, both beautiful, and filled with idiots.

On this particular day she was taking a walk when several knights came charging towards her. She was going to summon her army except something was different... they weren't attacking... they were running...

"Run m'lady! Deamons! Deamons are everywhere! Run for your lives!", and with that the cowardly knights were gone.

Not being one to deline a challenge she gathered her horde and march toward the screems.


His list:

1 thirster with armor of korne, immortal fury and spell breaker.
1 herald of korne with BSB standard of sundering, Armor of korne on a juggernaut

3 squads of 10 letters

3 blood crushers of korne with a standard of endless war.
2 squads of 6 flesh hounds

6 flamers of tzeentch


The board was 4X6. There was a hill in the back left of his deployment zone, and a forest in the back righ. In the left of my deployment zone there was a boomarang shaped forest (so I could hide units behind it), and a forest on the right flank.

He deployed the bloodcrushers w/ herald on the far left flank, then from left to right there was: flesh hounds, flamers, the three bloodletter units in a row, bloodthirster, flesh hounds.

I deployed the knights behind the trees on the left, then from left to right I had ghouls w/ book vamp, cart, ghouls w/ bunker behind w/ necromancer and helm vamp, cart, ghouls w/ lord, and then the cairn wraiths behind the trees on the right.


Pre-game thoughts: I was really looking forward to this game. This player was new to fantasy (this would be his third game) but he had played 40k for a long time and was a HUGE power gamer (and he'll gladly admit it) crushing everyone with his nidzilla. It was actually neat to see his fantasy list was fairly similar; min core and then very elite. I wasn't afraid of the groups of 10 bloodletters, but that bloodthirster was worrying me... And I made sure it was clear before the game that IoN was NOT effected by that banner of his.

I won the roll for first turn:


Turn 1 VC:

Lahboura fails stupidity and the unit stumbles forward. Knights move up to edge of trees, and other ghoul units move up 2 inches aswell to line up with Lahboura's unit. In the magic phase I made a zombie unit by the wraiths that was 20 big.

Turn 1 Deamons:

Bloodthirster flies to the right flank. Flamers move up. Bloodcrushers move up a bit. In the shooting phase the flamers kill 1 knight.

Turn 2 VC:

Lahboura passes her stupidity and moves over to far left ghoul unit. Knights move up to be right in front of flamers (he is very confused about this and I inform him about vanhels... he isn't pleased). Zombies move up to dare the thirster, while other units move back. In the magic phase I get the carts off, I try to raise the fallen knight but can't make a 4+ with 6 dice. I then go to try and cast that vanhels with Lahboura. That -2 really hurt but I got it off one which he scrolled (spellbreaked...). I then go for a trick: knowing that he still has 2 DD I roll to raise a new unit of zombies. Seeing as that was the end of my dice he rolls to dispel it (fails and I make a unit in the back left of my deployment zone) and then with no resistance left I use the book to move the knights into combat with the flamers. *Insert arguing/teaching him about bound items here.* In combat my WS6 knights kill 2 flamers and the flamers kill 1 knight. He rolls badly and is left with 2 flamers.

Turn 2 Deamons:

Flesh hounds charge flank of knights and the bloodletters charge the front. Bloodcrushers try to charge Lahboura's unit but are out of range (roll a 3 with the banner). Bloodthirster flies behind zombies. Other units move a tiny bit forward. In combat one WS6 knight is killed, and a couple of bloodletters are cut down. Combat is a draw. (Wow, that was unexpected. Thank god for WS6.)

Turn 3 VC:

Lahboura passes stupidity. Zombies turn around to face thirster. Ghouls on right turn to face thirster. Wriaths run beside thirster. Lahboura's unit move up a bit, and the left cart moves up to cover the knights. In the magic phase I increase the zombies to 25 and vanhel then into thirster. The carts go off. Lahboura raises her unit to 26 strong. The fallen knights are raised back up. In combat thirster kills a full 7 zombies and 3 more crumble. The WS6 knights (now ASF thanks to the cart that moved up) fight on killing a flamer and 2 bloodletters. They do nothing in return and 3 flesh hounds vanish.

Turn 3 Deamons:

Bloodcrushers charge Labhouras unit. Central bloodletters flank charge the forward corpse cart (showing flank to central ghouls. In combat the ghoul and Lahboura strike first and kill two bloodcrushers. The remaining bloodcrusher and herald kill 4 ghouls and then vanish.

Without finishing the other combats the Deamon player gives up.

Victory to the Vampires! (14W 1L)

The whole battle Lahboura felt her powers drained, but once the banner holding deamon (and his deamonic mount) had been fallen she felt her full power come back to her. She was about to turn her attention to making sure the greater deamon was hopelessly covered in zombies and then deal with the rest of the army, but suddenly all her opponents burst into fire and were gone...

Smiling she thought the deamons were even weaker than the Bretonnians until she heard the laughing... across the field the deamons were back and at full strength! Seeing as she as well had no losses she called her army back to her and prepared for a rematach.

Post-game thoughts: That pretty much went exactly as planned. After me and some more guys from the club (this was a different one than my regular one) talked about the battle and gave him some hints (mainly to be more offensive) he wanted a rematch and I gladly gave him one.

Malorian
07-06-2008, 06:29
Game 16: More deamons???...

The deamons were back, and she knew they wouldn't fall for the same tricks twice...

We played on the same board and on the same sides. We both changed how we deployed however.

He deployed flesh hounds on the left flank and the from left to right: bloodcrushers w/ herald, bloodletters, flamers, thirster, bloodletters, bloodletters, and then flesh hounds on the right flank.

I deployed the wraiths behind the trees on the left. I had the same formation with the body of my force with Lahboura, the helm vemp, and necromancer all in the bunker (just incase I failed my stupidity again), and the book vamp was in the left unit of ghouls. The black knights were halfway behind the trees on the right.

Pre-game thoughts: Well this was a better formation, and I just hoped he messed up with the thirster again. I was also hoping I could find a way to get those bloodcrushers up into my ghouls so I could flank charge them with my wraiths.

I won the roll for first turn.


Turn 1 VC:

Lahboura passes stupidity test. Ghouls move about 2 inches up. Wraiths move a bit up as well to be just right behind the trees. In the magic phase I made a big unit of 20ish zombies between the knights and the ghouls. All three main ghoul units were brought above 20 (I was rolling great for the number raised. I then saw a possible mistake: if the flamers moves up they might be able to flame the wraiths, so I made a unt of 13 zombies in front of them facing the center of the board.

Turn 1 Deamons:

Everything moves up almost it's full amount (he was going to be offensive). Thirster flies to the right flank but still in his deployment zone. Flamers are out of range.

Turn 2 VC:

Lahboura passes her stupidity and moves to the ghouls on the left. Knights move back as do the right ghouls. The zombie unit on the right moves up as does the zombies on the left to be right in front of the bloodcrushers. In the magic phase I increase Lahboura's ghouls to 25 and then for fun go for winds of undeath whish he scrolls. Carts go off. Being that I'm pretty much out of models to raise I discard 7 power dice.

Turn 2 Deamons:

Bloodcrushers charge zombies. Other units move a bit more up and thirster flies just behind the center bloodletters. The flamers kill 4 ghouls from the center unit. In combat the bloodcrushers smash the zombies and overrun into Lahboura's ghouls. *A club member asks why I didn't make them WS6, to which the Deamon player answers that I am going easy on him. Oh how little he expects what is to happen next...*

Turn 3 VC:

Wraiths flank charge bloodcrushers. Center ghouls charge left bloodletters. Knights charge the center bloodletters. Other units shift to be ready for thirster charge. In the magic phase he makes sure to stop the carts, but I then use the book and Lahboura to vanhels Lahboura's ghouls, and the other ghouls fighting the bloodletters aswell as raising them to 20 again. In comabt all three bloodcrushers are wiped up and the herald only kills 2 ghouls before vanishing.

Before we can finish the rest of the combats the Deamon player gives up.

Victory to the Vampires! (15W 1L)


Killing the banner holding bloodletter (for the second time...) the rest of the army once again disappeared in flames.

Quickly calling her army to reform and stand ready she waited... and waited... and waited... A full hour later and no laughing, and no more deamons. Easing up she relaxed and told her ghoul to go hunt (they had fought two battles already and didn't have any meat to show for it).

Smiling she headed back towards town to spend the rest of the day relaxing in a hot bath, and somewhere in the distance Tzeentch smiled too.

Post-games thoughts: There was really no reason for him to quit that early but he was just pissed off. He just wasn't used to fantasy yet and he was getting creamed (which is hard to take when you are a dedicated power gamer). I know I can't look at these battles and say chaos sucks, but I do notice their weaknesses. A good learning game for both of us, although I'm sure he's going to go back to 40k for a while where it doesn't matter if his carnifex is flank charged ;)

Things learned:
-Deamons are weak. They pack a good punch, but with low toughness and only a 5+ ward that can't take it back.
-Their instability is crazy. You can lose and be fine or lose your entire unit. I much more prefer the vampires crumbling.
-Greater deamons are tough, but they are a lot of points (his thirster was even more than Lahboura) and you have to use them well if you expect to get their points back.

Thanks for reading. Feel free to add any comments on how he can inprove his list or tactics as I'm sure he can't wait to get revenge on me :p

Malorian
07-06-2008, 07:02
Fluff update:

Lahboura had returned to his living quarters (a modest two story manor at the edge of town) and went upstairs to prepare for her bath. When she entered her room a movement caught her eye and she spun quickly to face her opponent.

The figure was taller than her and stood in the shadow in the far corner. After a quick thought a trio of ghouls burst in through the window and jumped upon the intruder. Their strikes were in vain however as their murderous claws simply passed through the shadowy figure. Then in three lightning strikes of her sword she cut the ghouls down and hurled them away.

Lahboura was about to call forth a few dozen more when her opponent raised her hand,
"There is no need for that Lahboura. I mean you no harm."

"How do you know my name? Show yourself!"

Slowly emerging from the shadow Lahboura was surprised to not only see this tall figure was a woman, but also a vampire. Dressed in black dress decorated with bone and twin steel daggers, she stood a full 8 inches taller than herself. "I have been following you for a while. In fact it was I that had picked up your broken body after your loss to the Tomb Kings and mended you back to life." Seeing that she now had Lahboura's full attention she continued. "I was once called Lady DeDucee, but they now refer to me as The Countes of the Shadows. You see Lahboura, while you had mastered your art to harness the power of ghouls, I have mastered my power to control wraiths." And with a raise of her arm five wraiths came forward from the shadows behind her."

"I too contol wraiths..." Lahbora said with a wink, and six wraiths come up through the floow. But once beside her, they moved other to Lady DeDucee and joined her ranks.

"Take your hand off your sword Lahboura, I again swear I mean you no harm. I only with to show you my tallents so that you might see my use." With that all the wraiths faded away. "I suppose I should get back to your question as to why I am here. You see you have been making quite a stir and I was sent to keep an eye on you. I actually hail from Bretonnia but my teaching comes from the house of Lahmia just as you have. At first me and my wraiths were sent to destroy you and bring your body back to the Queen, but it is now obvious you are intrumental to our needs. The Emperor himself hunts you and in doing that other vampires are free. Thus with that in mind it is now my duty to aid you in whatever means so that you can continue your... distraction of the empire and it's allies."

"So let me get this straight, you were suppose to kill me, and now I should accept you as one of my handmaidens because the Queen that hates me wants you to protect me? Some how I find that less than believable."

"Think what you must, but no matter if I'm fighting by your side, or mending your broken body so you can fight again I will be in the shadows and waiting for your call."

Lahboura was about to make a response, but before she could Lady Deducee stepped back into the shadows and was gone. From outside she could hear noices so she went to the window and saw a black coach being pulled away by two skeletal horses and disappearing into the woods.

She didn't know if she could trust, or even wanted another vampire lord in her ranks, but it certainly couldn't hurt. And of course having someone skilled enough to bring her back to life is always an insurance that was priceless.

This was going to be interesting...

Asfaloth
07-06-2008, 12:22
Interesting Daemon list. As I read the list I thought this list might cause you some problems as Khorne Daemons excell at killing Vampire characters.

But playing someone who doesn't even know Vanhels or the book of Arkhan is hardly a challenge. More of development aide ;). I wonder what this guy expected but he was a very bad sport and a sore loser.

What I would like to see is a battle against Tzeentchy Daemons with the Blue Scribes. That should make for a tough line-up.

happy_doctor
07-06-2008, 13:44
Well, these last 2 reports don't exactly count, do they?;)

Still, if the Daemon player lurks around here, maybe we could give him a few tips on how to use his army.

For one, having a whole army with the killing blow rule poses a great threat to vampires, and he didn't seem to capitalise on it. what's more, getting stuck with the Bloodthirster in a fight with zombies in the front was a BAD move...

I think his best bet would be a denied flank maneuvre with the Bloodthirster threatening the Bunker from afar in the first few turns, then charging in for the kill along with the other stuff.

blackjack
07-06-2008, 16:25
I was that daemon player.

I would be more than happy to hand my list over to any club member who thinks they can beat Malarians list with it. At 16-1-1 I can hardly imagine. There are alot of very experianced gamers in my club and no one is doing too hot against him.

To beat his list I would probably try a tooled out 22+power dice 15 dispell teeznch machine with 4 lores of light mages and 1 or more beast lores. But I don't have close to the experiance to run a list like that yet.

For the short term I plan to sub horors for my letters who never see battle in any case, that will at least generate a few dispel dice.

I need to figure out how to use my thirster. In game 1 I did not just let him be charged by zombies, Malor cast dance macabre, as he has the ability to try and cast it like 4 times there is no way my list can stop it.

Geting those usless letters out of my front line will at least give me more room to try an manuver my crushers and dogs.

3 out of 3 games I have not been able to make my flamers work. Everyone tells me they are the bomb but turn 1 they move and maybe get to fire at a 5-6 to hit, turn two they either get charged or lose los to combats infront of them.

EvC
07-06-2008, 19:04
You need to think 1.5 turns ahead at the very least against Vampires. Assume EVERY enemy unit has 8" more movement than it actually does, because with a power dice-heavy list like Malorian's, if there is a VHD charge he wants to make, he WILL make it. That means never plonk your Bloodthirster 11" or less behind a unit of Zombies. A flyer has 20" move and Malorian must keep his small army compact (To use the Helm of Commandment, Corpse Carts, etc.), so you can afford to keep him a bit further away. However, an army like yours I would not expect to win, as Malorian has a huge amount of magic dice and you have no magic defence. I think you should be playing that Sundering does affect Invocation of Nehek, as that's how it will be ruled in the FAQ coming out next month.

senorcardgage
07-06-2008, 20:43
Hey blackjack, maybe it has something to do with your army selection? In fantasy, you need a good blend of units to make your army work. You can't just plop down the absolute minimum amount of core choice on the board and expect them to do anything for you!

Kerill
08-06-2008, 05:30
@Blackjack Giving up that early when you still have a lot of your army on the table makes it much easier to lose though. Khorne daemons will have trouble against VC due to a lack of dispelling power but you have a bloodthirster who is a LARGE TARGET. You can keep him behind your lines to prevent your opponent getting any charges in with vanhels danse macabre. And the bloodthirster can make mincemeat of black knights (although you were unlucky with the flamers and hounds in the first combat). Basically you need to kill labhoura and the game is yours, otherwise you will lose. If you have spare points get champions for your letters so that the bloodthirster can avoid challenges if need be. You also need some furies for march blocking and to redirect charges.

Tzeentch daemons (especially with scribes) do do very well against VC since they have more magic, stronger spells and can fight a bit as well, but Khorne daemons could do well too with a bit of support. Flamers are a tremendous unit, no doubt about it but against VC you aren;t preventing magic enbough to wittle anything down. I'm also not too sold on bloodcrushers- very expensive for what they do. If I was going pure Khorne I would probably go for:

BT, axe of khorne, immortal fury, spellbreaker 525
Skulltaker on Juggernaur 200
Herald of Khorne, armour of khorne, bsb:sundering

10 Bloodletters, champion, musician 138
10 bloodletters 120
10 bloodletters 120
5 furies 60

6 flesh hounds 210
6 fleshhounds 210
5 flesh hounds 175

Total 1998 points

Its not going to be an easy battle but you just need to kill enough vampires (or labhoura) to get the win and keep your bsb alive at all costs- they make a HUGE difference to instability.

Yuo could add some Tzeentch to boost your magic defence (herald and a couple of horror blocks) but don't expect magic to do too much damage to Malorians army.

Anyway thanks for the reports as always Malorian!

jackson428
09-06-2008, 20:54
Great reps Malorian. Keep it up... always a fun read.

YTY
13-06-2008, 17:19
When shall we see some reports with the new vampire lord? The fluff is great.

Good reports overall and congrats on the wins!

Keep it going man.

Malorian
15-06-2008, 04:56
Game 17: Don't those deamons ever give up?...

After having taken care of the deamon threat the common folk of the surrounding villages started to look a bit mroe fondly on Lahboura. The knights too started wondering if she was an agent of the Lady... oh how wrong they were.

It was another typical day when a peasant came to her manor to call upon her. It was a messanger there to tell her the deamons were on the attack again and destroying a village to the north. Giving the man a gold piece (information is always worth it's weight in gold, next time he could be warning her about Kurt coming back for her...) she sent him away and went off to meet the deamons.

Making straight for an area with smoke billowing up into the sky the deamon army came into view. There was no monsterous bloodthirster or even bloodletters, but there were more flesh hounds and some odd units that just plainly looked weak.

Lahboura smiled and called for battle formation.


His NEW list:

2 heralds of khorne one with firestorm blade the other with BSB, both with armor of khorne on juggers

1 herald of tz with mastery (light). (+1 dispel scroll he should not have had)

3 Blood crushers of khorne with standard, icon of endless war

2 blood chrushers of knorne with champ

4x 5 flesh hounds

3x 10 horrors



The board was 4X6 and there was a large forest on the left flank and a small forest on the left flank as the edge of his deployment zone.

H deployed a unit of flesh hounds on the far left flank, then in the clearing from left to right there was: flesh hounds, 3 juggers w/ general, horrors, horrors w/ herald, horrors (all horror units were deployed in ranks of 2 wide/5 deep to save space), flesh hounds, 2 juggers w/ BSB, flesh hounds.

I deployed the wraiths behind the trees on the left, then from left to right I had: ghouls w/ Lahboura, balefire cart, ghouls w/ bunker behind w/ necromancer and helm vampire, stone cart, ghouls, knights.


Pre-game thoughts: I was glad not to see blood thirster there. The army was fast and I knew he had more dispel dice, but I wasn't worried. My plan was to try in the general and his juggers and flank them with the wraiths (like last time) and then grind down the dogs as they come in. On the right flank I would either slow them up with zombies, or keep them back with the knights until I could deal with them.

I won the roll for first turn.


Turn 1 VC:

Lahboura passes stupidity. Ghoul units move 1 inch up. Wraiths move up to the trees. In the magic phase I make a unit of zombies 11 strong infront of the juggers on the left, raise Lahboura's unit up to 25ish and get the ghouls on the right up to about 20.

Turn 1 Deamons:

Generals juggers declare a charge on the zombies but roll only a 1 for their banner and fail. Everything moves up. Because of the trees the flesh hounds on the far right decrease the front rank to 4 wide and the flesh hounds to the left of the general are behind the trees on the left. Magic phase is easily shut down because all his horrors are out of range.

Turn 2 VC:

Lahboura passes stupidity. Now since I had some extra time and the flesh hounds were visable on the left flank, I charge them with the wraiths. The units on the right flank move back. In the magic phase I raise a unit of zombies infront of the right juggers. I waste some dice trying to do gaze of nagash on the hounds (stupid MR3...). Right ghouls are up to 25, Lahboura's ghouls are close to 30. Carts go through. In combat, after all is said and done, he is down to 2 dogs and I'm down to 4 wraiths.

Turn 2 Deamons:

Generals juggers charge the zombies. Juggers on the right and the fleshhounds on their left charge the zombies on the left. The other two units of hounds fail their charge because the one on the left couldn't make it through the trees, and there was not enough room for three units to fight the zombies. The magic phase is shut down. In combat both zombie units are crushed. The generals unit overrun into Lahboura's unit, and the others overrun into both the other ghoul units (didn't offset them). After the wraith combat I'm down to 2 wraiths and he's down to 2 hounds.

Turn 3 VC:

Knights flank charge juggers on the right. In the magic phase he stops my carts, but I use the book to vanhels Lahboura's unit. I raise a few ghouls in the center unit. In combat the ghast makes a challenge in the Lahboura's combat and is crushed by his general. Lahboura does 1 wound and the ghouls do nothing. Blood crushers kill a handful and I lose more to crumble. I'm down to 20ish now. In the other combat I make a challenge with the ghast and his herald crushes him. My knights do... 1 wound. He kills a bunch of ghouls and the book vampire with his champ (crap...). I lose combat by 4 and everything loses 4 models. In the wraith combat he wiffs his attacks and they go poof.

Turn 3 Deamons:

Flesh hounds charge the flank of the knights. Other flesh hounds on the left move up and go to 3 in the front flank move up as do the horrors. Magic phase does 2 wounds to the balefire cart, but then he miscasts and I get to cast vanhels on Lahboura's unit. After the combat on the right is done the knights all crumble, the right unit is down to 1 ghoul and the center unit is down to 4. At least I do 1 wound to a hound... In the left combat his general challenges and Lahboura takes it. I attack first but he saves (damn 0+ save!). He does 2 wounds to Lahboura. Juggers kill some WS 6 ghouls and they manage to kill off a jugger. I lose combat by 1.

Turn 4 VC:

Balefire cart charges into the generals juggers. Wraiths move to the bottom of the trees. In the magic phase I decide to give up on the ghouls on the far right. I heal Lahboura to full strength, and raise unti back up to almost 25. The center ghouls are raised to 14. Carts actually go through (he was saving dice for the book forgetting he already killed that vampire). In combat another jugger on the left goes down and the two generals do nothing to each other. I lose some ghouls but win combat (to no effect). In the other combat I will a hound but the unit on the right is wiped out.

Turn 4 Deamons:

Hounds on left charge Lahboura's unit (right side of juggers). Juggers on right charge the flank of the stone cart. Deamons move up again. He tries to cast the lvl 6 light spell but I stop it. He also tries to blast wraiths but rolls poorly. In combat I kill 2 hounds and he kills I few back, I win and they go poof. Juggers on the right smashes the cart (even though I rolled it's regen like it was a 2+) and overruns into the center ghouls flank. I kill a hound and another jugger (just general left) but he destroys the balefire cart, kills a few ghouls, and does a wound to Lahboura. I win combat by 1 but to no effect. (He rolled a 12 for the hounds as first, but the BSB let him reroll.)

Turn 5 VC:

Wraiths would LOVE to charge the flank of Lahboura's combat, but they would only touch the general and thus couldn't attack anyway. Instead they move up to get within charge range of horrors. In the magic phase I heal Lahboura, raise the center ghouls to over 20, and get more ghouls in Lahboura's unit. In combat the center ghouls are smashed and I'm down to 7 ghouls left. Laboura still can't hurt the general (finally get passed the 0+ save and he makes 5+ ward), and after killing another hound and lose some ghouls I win combat by 1 to no effect.

Turn 5 Deamons:

Hounds on far right move up to threaten bunker. Horrors move up (heralds unit is 1 inch from center ghouls). In the magic phase he does get off lvl 6 light and kills 2 models from the bunker, 5 models from the 7 fighting the BSB juggers, and 3 from Lahbouras unit. He also leaves just 1 wraith with 1 wound. In combat the BSB juggers finish off the 2 ghouls. Still can't harm his general (damn 5+ ward) and he gets a killing blow on Lahboura but I make my save. After all is said and done I lose by 4.

Turn 6 VC:

Single wraith charges a unit of horrors. Necromancer and helm vampire run behind juggers and out of LOS of flesh hounds while bunker reforms to face. In the magic phase I really hoped to raise some wraiths but after rolling horrible I give up and simply get some more ghouls in Lahboura's unit (about 25 now). In combat the wraith kills 2 and wins combat by 1 to no effect. General does another killing blow to Lahboura but I save it. I kill a hound and win combat and the general goes poof (thank god).

Turn 6 Deamons:

Being blocked by the horrors the BSB alone charges the flank of Lahboura's ghouls. Flesh hounds charge bunker. He tries to blast helm vampire with magic, but I stop it. In combat the horror wiff attacks on wraiths, and wraith returns the favor. I lose combat by 1 and crumble. Lahboura kills a hound and the combat is a draw after some more ghouls are killed.

Victory to the deamons! (15W 2L)


When the enemy general finally lost it's hold and disappeared into the warp, Lahboura finally had time to look over the battle field... and it was obvious all was lost. Her amy was all by wiped out and all around her deamons were moving in for the kill.

Then out of the trees came a black coach. Wraiths leaned down and picked up her necromancer and one of her handmaidens, and then around the battle to her. Leaving the ghouls to guard her retreat she made her way back unti she too could jump into the coach.

As the coach rode off back towards her manor she saw the ghouls make a break for the trees, but with the deamons chasing them not many would make it.

"Very disappointing Lahboura. Without an army you arn't much use to us."

Lahboura turned and gave a glare full of daggers. "Not that you were much help! And at any rate, the forests are still full of my ghouls. I could have my army together by sundown."

Lady DeDucee blowed her head slightly, "Why else do you think we came to save you?"

The two vampire lord stared at each other without another word until they returned to the manor...


Post-game thoughts: Well that didn't exactly go to plan. Basically I made a few critical mistake and paid the price for it. First of all my wraiths went after hounds and left Lahboura to fight on her own, and secondly I took the right flank of his army straight on. Leaving the book vampire in a unit I knew was going to be overrun into was just plain stupidity on my part (must have failed my Ld test...). The army then hit me so fast and hard that I couldn't keep up.

The only thing I can cling to is the general vs general combat, and even that I won by luck alone. I never knew that the juggers can do killing blow too!

All in all is was a blow not only to my record, but also to my pride. I haven't won in my last two games (this and my tie with lizardmen) and this was mainly because I played like a poorly and deserved to lose.


Things learned:
-Juggers can can do killing blow
-Although most hounds are T3 and no save, flesh hounds are T4, have a 5+ ward and 2 wounds. That are NOT easy to kill so I have to give them more respect and not think I can wipe them out in one combat.
-If you plan to have a unit charging into take the T4, zero armor, vampires out!!!
-Taking a fast khorne army straight on is plain suicide. Deal with it in parts and redirect the rest (don't take it on the chin and hope you hold long enough).

I will be back though, and I'm iching to try at 4000 ; ) Thanks for reading.

blackjack
15-06-2008, 05:51
A few corrections on my list. First I accedently cheated, my tezch herald did use a scroll of dispel i did not pay for. (I had planned to drop the BSB in the list I should have used.) my appolgies. Second my BSB herald had no Firestorm blade (nor did he use one in the fight) only my general.

The list was

2 heralds of khorne one with firestorm blade the other with BSB, both with armor of khorne on juggers

1 herald of tz with mastery (light). (+1 dispel scroll he should not have had)

3 Blood crushers of khorne with standard, icon of endless war

2 blood chrushers of knorne with champ

4x 5 flesh hounds

3x 10 horrors

And thank you for taking it easy on me.

Malorian
15-06-2008, 06:14
Your list is fixed.

I didn't go easy on you... at the time I seriously thought my plan was going to work (little did I know my plan was stupid... ;)).

blackjack
15-06-2008, 06:46
Thanks for a great game.

Although I made a few mistakes myself I was wondering why you let me get in with 80% of my up front units on turn 2. I thought you had some grand scheme and where setting me up for a trap. I was actually surprised how tough your units are. Even with everything going my way (strategically speaking) it was a very hard fought battle.

I underestimated your cairn wraiths, I thought they relied only on being insubstantial; I had no idea how hard they hit.

I keept forgeting to seperate a hit for your unit champions, for 8 phases of combat strait I forgot to set an attack aside for the champ.

I still get tricked by you into spending my last dispel die when I need to save it for one of your bound items.

Finally I still do not pay enough attention to my movment. I forgot to move units, other times I charged knowing I can't get in thinking 'its all the same I plan to move that direction anyway...' then find it would have been much better to be able to change my formation.

I also have to admit the herald of TZ was there just for you, normally I would use 2 squads of 6 furies for war machine hunting.

I think your list (and your play) is fantastic, I doubt I will be able to do so well against you with this list again untill I learn to play better.

all_seeing_eye
15-06-2008, 16:39
Great battle report, nice to see some one else out there can take you down Molarion. ;)

dinobot
15-06-2008, 20:59
Good report Malorian, VC's weakness is definitely very aggressive armies. Next time I would recommend using a second rare choice (I'm assuming you only had the wraiths?); a varghulf probably would've come in handy, since it didn't seem like you really had anything to reliably fight the hounds with.

And good job blackjack, considering Malorians record and the fact that you just started, that's pretty impressive.

eagletsi1
16-06-2008, 15:11
Mal you have to Read the High Elf FAQ on ASF.

When two models with ASF fight. They effectively cancel each other out and it comes down to Standard rules for who fights first. (Not Initiative)

In other words Your Zombies with ASF(from the coach) charge my Swordmasters with ASF. Both cancel and standard rules apply.

So the Charger goes first, not the Higher Initiative. And in following rounds your Zombies (ASF still on) will go first because the Swordmasters have Great Weapons and always strike last.

Just so you know for future battles.

Kerill
17-06-2008, 15:05
Well, well done to Blackjack and commiserations to Malorian, I do feel that Daemons are like ogres in the sense that they tend to do well against VC out of proportion to how the do against other armies (and Daemons are pretty strong regardless) due to the negation of fear and the reliance that VC have on it against other armies.

Incidentally @Eaglets a lot of people are arguing that ASF only cancels ASF in the case of Great weapons (like in your example) but that against, for example HE spears or GW highelves vs. ASF GW grave guard its done by initiative (so the elves will strike first regardless). Sounds like HE whingers trying to have their pie and eat it to me, but there you go.

eagletsi1
18-06-2008, 00:55
Thats interesting. As I'm a high elf player and as I read it. They just clarify what the result is for great weapons. But they also state when two models with ASF. That is reguardless of Weapons as they are not mentioned.

eagletsi

Malorian
19-06-2008, 06:12
Game 18: Return of an old enemy...

Lahboura was mad, very mad. Things had not been going her way lately and all she wanted to do was cut of Lady DeDucee's head and put it on a spike. Just who did she think she was?

But there was no time to deal with that now. No sooner had she gotten back, a messanger was there to say that another village had been destroyed. Gathering a new force of ghouls she marched out within the hour and was ready for revenge.

When she got there, it wasn't what she had expected... there were no deamons here... there were skeletons... there were Tomb Kings... and across the battle field she could see the man that had cut her down, and feeling the now faded scar on on her throat and chest, she almost thought about fleeing.

Then she thought about Lady Deducee, and she put here doubts behind her. Now was the time to get revenge and show her why she had been a Lahmian High Priest.

The tomb king army (3000): (same as last time)

Tomb king w/ destroyer of eternity, collar of shapesh
Prince w/ great weapon, scorpian armor
Prince w/ sword of might, brooch of the great desert, shield, light armor
High priest w/ heiratic jar, cloak of dunes
Priest w/ dispel scroll
Priest w/ dispel scroll

19 skeleton warriors w/ light armor, shield (scorpian prince here)
24 skeleton warriors w/ light armor, shield, champion banner (king here)
3 chariots
3 chariots

23 tomb guard w/ full commad, banner of undying legion (brooch prince here)
Tomb scorpian
Tomb scorpian
4 ushabti
3 carrion

Screaming skull catapult
Screaming skull catapult
Bone giant

The board was 4X6 and I had a hill in my deployment zone (haha no hill for you!). There was a forest on either flank and some ruins in the left side of his deployment zone.

He deployed both units of chariots on the left flank with the high priest behind them. Them from left to right in the clearing there was: scorpian, skeletons w/ scorpian prince, tombguard w/ other prince and a priest, skeletons w/ king, scorpian, giant (w/ ushabti behind) and the carrion were behind the trees on the right. Then behind them were the catapults and the other priest.

I deployed the knights behind the forest on the left, then from left to right I had: skeletons w/ mounted vampire, ghouls, balefire cart, grave guard w/ bunker behind w/ Lahboura, helm vampire and necromancer, stone cart, ghouls w/ wight king, balefire cart, ghouls w/ book vampire, and the wraiths were behind the trees on the right.

Pre-game thoughts: I REALLY wanted to win this game. I've been having a loosing streak and I wanted it to end. I planned to hit his elite units with the wraiths on the right (so nice to not fight deamons...) and stall the chariots on the left (assuming the didn't just zip to the center). I was sure he would suicide his scorpians and carrion so it wasjust a matter of killing them then grinding down the regular units. But the biggest thing I was going to do was NOT FIGHT HIS KING WITH LAHBOURA!!!

I won the roll for first turn.


Turn 1 VC:

Lahboura passes her stupidity test. Knights move a bit forward so they can still see things on both sides of the forest. All the ghouls and the grave guard move up two inches. The wraiths run into the forest on the right, but are close enough to either side so that I can see out (just hiding from catapults). In the magic phase all the carts go off, I raise the ghoul unit on the left anf to the right to 20. Everything else is stopped.

Turn 1 TK:

Chariots move up cautiously on the left side (almost all my vampires had vanhels). The scorpians move up and the giant starts to move around the trees to the far right flank. The carrion also fly to center. In the magic phase he moves the giant further around the trees. The blocks shuffle as they try and draw out dice, and the carrion charge into the far right ghouls. In the shooting phase both catapults scatter off target. My WS6 ghouls and vamp strike first and kill 1 carrion. The remaining carrion fail to even hit my vamp and crumble.

Turn 2 VC:

The knights charge the scorpian on the left, and the wraiths charge the scorpian on the right. We had a problem here as our forest was made up of four trees with no base and we had different views to where the edge of the forest was. We rolled it off and it was a failed charge. Skeletons turn be ready for the incoming chariots. Ghouls on the left move up. Lahboura moves into the center ghouls with the wight king. In the magic phase all the carts go off except the right one, and I tried to vanhels the wraiths. He stopped the first one and then I miscast... with Lahboura... My opponent called for a double 1, but I let him down with a 1 and a 2. This kills 3 ghouls around her. To make up for it though I then castit with irresistable force. I decide to let the scorpian go and instead charge the ushabti. I then raise 7ish ghouls in Lahboura's unit AND cast a spell for the first time ever: curse of ages is cast by my helm vamp on his tombguard (his skeletons are getting older :wtf:) and I kill 5. In combat the knights kill the scorpian with the lose of 1 knight and overrun into both the tombguard and the scorpian princes unit. The wraiths make a mess of the ushabti and in the end there is only 1 ushabti with 1 wound.

Turn 2 TK:

Scorpian charges into the ghouls on the right (making sure to be in base to base with the book vampire). The giant keep moving around the forest. The king's unit moves up, and the chariots reform to be 2 wide and move up. In the magic phase his banner raises 4 tomb guard. He uses his 2 base PD to try and dispel the curse of ages but fails. He casts smiting on the scorpian princes unit and kills 2 knights. I roll really well and stop everything else. At the end of the phase 8 tomb guard drop. 1 catapult misfires and is distroyed, and the other kills 5 ghouls from my bunker. In combat the scorpian killing blowed the vampire, but I did a few wounds back and the scorpian crumbled. In the other combat I direct two models at the liche, only 1 attack hits out of the 4 (2 knights and 2 horses) but it's a killing blow! I then direct 1 knight at the prince in the tombguard unit and get a killing blow! (I fail the curse and three knights die) Then to see how far up that horseshoe is I direct the last knight at the scorpian prince but fail to wound. My knight crumbles but after killing a tomb scorpian, a priest, and a prince, plus stopping them from moving for a turn, they were already the MVPs off the game. The wraiths finish off the ushabti.

At this point my opponent thought about giving up, seeing as how I was in total control and was pretty much guarenteed to win, but not wanting to be like other opponents he decides to keep going.

Turn 3 VC:

Hard to decide if the wraiths should chase the giant, wipe out the catapults, kill the nearby lone priest, or hit the flank of the kings unit, but in the end I decide to take care of the king's unit now and charge their flank. Lahboura then joins the ghouls on the right which turn to face in incoming giant, and the center ghouls (w/ wightlord) and the grave guard head towards the front of the kings unit, ready to be vanhel'd in. The skeletons have no way to avoid the chariots so I march forward and hope to vanhel into one of them. The other units sit back. All the carts go off and then I try to vanhel ghouls into the king's unit (wish I had that book vamp...). First time Lahboura casts... miscast... double 1s... she's dead... :wtf::cries: The rest of my magic phase is shut down and curse of years kills 10 more tomb guard. In combat the wraiths kill 9 skeletons and 5 more crumble. I roll well for crumbling for the army and only lose a wound off a cart and a few ghouls.

Turn 3 TK:

Giant charges the ghouls. 1 chariot unit moves to the skeletons flank and both units go back to 3 wide. Scorpain princes unit moves up. King move over in the unit to be in base to base with wraith. In the magic phase I'm worked over. Both chariot units charge (1 in front 1 in flank). King's unit does smitting and kills 2 wraits and injures another. Some tombguard are raised but he fails to dispel the curse of ages and he is not down to 2 models. In combat the mounted vampire is able to do 1 wound, but otherwise the entire unit is wiped out. The ghouls on the right are down to 2 models after the unstoppable assault and crumbling. I kill a few skeletons and the king kills some wraiths. I'm now down to 2 wraiths and he has the king and 4 skeletons.

Turn 4 VC:

From the army wide crumbling I lose some ghouls and a handful of grave guard. Ghouls on the left charge the scorpian princes unit. Center ghouls charge the king's unit. The grave guard unit turns towards tomb guard. My magic phase is shut down. The two tomb guard models (now killed on a 2+ by curse of ages) only lose 1 model. In combat the ghouls fighting the giant are wiped out. I lose the combat against the scorpian prince but only by 1. I wipe out the skeletons, but the king wipes out the wraiths and two ghouls (I challenged with the ghast but the skeleton champ took it) and the king loses 2 wounds to crumbling.

Turn 4 TK:

Giant charges cart. The chariots move closer. In the magic phase his banner raises 5 tombguard and he dispels the curse of ages. These tombguard then charge my grave guard. Chariots are magically charged into a cart on the left. The catapult misses. In the combat phase the ghast challenges and is killed by the king, but the king crumbles. Giant kills the right cart and overruns into center one. Chariots destroy their cart and overrun into the flank of the bunker. I lose the combat against the scorpian prince and more crumble. My grave guard wipe out the tomb guard except for the champ who is in a challenge with mine.

Turn 5 VC:

More ghouls crumble. Ghouls with wight king turn to face the flank of the scorpian prince's unit. I actually get a a spell off and raise 4 ghouls in the bunker. In the combat phase the bone giant smashed the last cart and overran into the other flank of the bunker which was then obviously wiped out. The grave guard finish off the tomb guard champ, but not before he kills mine. I'm left with 1 ghoul fighting the scorpian prince.

Turn 5 TK:

Bone giant charges rear of grave guard. Chariots charge flank of ghouls w/ wight king. Magic phase didn't matter other than the prince smiting the 1 ghoul. In combat both units are wiped out.

Victory to the TK (15W 3L)


Everything as going to plan, Lahboura thought as she looked over the battle field. Now she just needed her wraiths to deal with those bloody ushabti. She tried to use her dark arts and something happened... it back fired and the resulting blast killed some nearby ghouls. Lahboura didn't understand as she thought she had cast the spell perfectly. Trying again her spell worked and the wraiths moved in a flash of light to deal a death blow.

Once they were taken care of she turned her attention to the king sending her troops forward.

"Think of this as me returning the favor!" She yelled as the wraiths then hit the flank of the king's unit. All she needed to do was use her magic to push either the ghouls or the grave guard into them as well and the battle was her... and then it happened... she thought she had done everything right but nothing happened... other than the ground beneath her opening up and a massive deamonic hand grabbing her and pulling her under...

Then everything went black...


Post-game thoughts: *Beep*!!! That really sucked. Even when I do everything right the dice gods see it fit to extend my lossing streak. I know it was bound to happen eventually but come on!!!

Other than that, what can I say. Once I lost her I didn't have the magic to keep my army going and I didn't have the magic to stop him. Add in my units crumbling and I didn't have a chance...

Thank you for reading the continued downfall of Lahboura. Tune in next time when she finds out her mom has cancer and her dog dies... ;)

Peegore
19-06-2008, 07:03
<chants> FIGHT THE KING! FIGHT THE KING! FIGHT THE KING!
If I remember rightly, Lahboura was on the nasty end of a couple of killing blows in the previous matchup.... certainly not nice.

Seems there is the potential here for a one of those reports where we're not sure you'll come out smelling of roses ( unusually ;) ), as the Tomb King player seems to be ( based on the last batrep with these forces ) quite aware of the VC's weaknesses ( mainly characters ) and is able to exploit them.

Looking forward to this one.

Did I mention..... FIGHT THE KING! :)

sainthale1988
19-06-2008, 08:31
Turn 1 VC:

(I'll write this tomorrow...)

please don't do that again.... i dislike having my expecations cruely shattered by time delays...... it makes me so very sad inside :cries:

on a more up beat note i say FIGHT THE KING! FIGHT THE KING!
FIGHT THE KING!
FIGHT THE KING!
FIGHT THE KING!
etc. :D

Peegore
19-06-2008, 15:56
Oh Malorian... I had to laugh in turn 3, but it was an extremely sympathetic laugh... That's just sod's law innit! The opponent decides to make a game of it despite the TK's early turn's 'issues'.... and that happens :eek: ( I don't like to give away key batrep info... in case it spoils things for people who have yet to read it... ).

Seriously, well done all round for both players playing the full 6 turns. Top sportsmanship. And it just goes to show... a game is always worth playing to the death. Nice report!

Malorian
19-06-2008, 16:23
please don't do that again.... i dislike having my expecations cruely shattered by time delays...... it makes me so very sad inside :cries:

Well I do it for a couple of reasons. First of all it builds suspense (or at least I like to think it does), but more importantly it helps me remember. I usually do these game late in the day and don't get home until 11pm or even later. If I write down at least where everything was deployed then in the morning if I forgot something I can at least piece it together. (Getting old I guess...)


Fluff Update!

When Lahboura awoke the first thing she noticed was that she had a splitting headache. The next thing she noticed was that she couldn't move her arms...

Franticly she forced her eyes to see what was going on and found that she was chained to a pillar with her arms above her head in some kind of palace. The walls would appear one color one momment, and then another the next. Doors and windows seems to float freely in the walls, and time to time she would catch a glance of creatures looking in at her before they ran away.

Concentrating again on her arms she pulled with all her might, but the chains would bend and then seem to pull back.

Deciding to fight magic with magic she tried to focus on the chains to obliterate them, but just when she had completed the spell pain stung her head and it felt like a spike had been jabbed into both her eyes and into her brain.

She screamed for what seemed an eternity.

Once the pain finally subsided she noticed a figure come towards her, "There there, little one. Don't fight it and it won't hurt." Lahboura tried to make out who/what it was, but her eyes were still fuzzy from the pain. "Oh where's my manners, welcome to my palace. I've been expecting your for quite some time."

"Who the hell are you?" Lahboura barked. Although in her position it was hard to be commanding.

"I have several names but I guess to be clear I should just say that I am the task master of Tzeentch, Tzeen Tzcho, and you my little vampire are my slave."

Gasping Lahboura struggled to see if this could possible be true and as her eyes cleared she found that there in front of her was a giant. More bird than anything else, but standing as a man dressed in a long white robe and holding a shinning staff.

In a panic she fought again to break the chains. The chains almost seemed like they were going to break and then they burst into flames, burning her flesh. Then the pillar itself burst into flames engulfing her entire body.

She screamed for what seemed an eternity.

Then the flames were gone, leaving her black and burned. Her skin split in several places and her clothes a pile of ashes on the floor.

"Maybe before you get yourself killed I should tell you why I brought you here. Although you have been a pain in the side of Khorne, to my mild amusement, you have also been a loose cannon and I want that stopped. My Master has plans for the world Lahboura, great plans, and you have skewed them. Slightly, but still enough that it bothers him."

Lahboura did her best to listen but the pain and the fact her ears where burnt out made it difficult. Tzeen Tzcho, seemingly annoyed at how weak she was, waved his arm and healed her body. The flesh rejoining and turning pink, and even her scars completely disappeared.

"I want to make it absolutely clear that I now own you Lahboura. I could have killed you, and still can, but I'd rather use you. I'm going to let you go so that you can do my bidding and ensure my plan and my will is fulfilled."

In no possition to say no, all she could do is ask, "What is it you need me to do?"

Tzeen Tzcho smiled (or atleast it seemed he did), "I need you to go back and complete the task first planned for you. I need you to leave Bretonnia, go back to the Empire and kill Kurt Helborg. Do that and you can consider your dept repaid. If you fail, or deviate from this task you will have me to deal with." And with that the pillar flared into flames and stopped again just long enough to make Lahboura shriek. "I assume we have an understanding..."

Lahboura was going to reply, but before she could the deamons massive fist swung and hit her squarely on the chin, and all went black.

When she came to she was laying on the ground, the grass burned away around her, with her slaughtered army all around her.

It was night, and she felt weak and tired, but there was work to do: Kurt Helborg must die!

vinny t
19-06-2008, 18:14
WOW! That is sooo freaking cool, great job Malorian!!!

Gazak Blacktoof
19-06-2008, 18:57
:D Its nice to see there are still some advantages liche priests have over vampires and not getting their souls ripped out by daemons is certainly one of them.

Arguleon-veq
20-06-2008, 00:01
Nice BatRep. Good to see somebody trying to fight back from a bad situation, goes to show that people should try it more often.

Hard luck on that though. My Gobbo Great Shaman [my Orcs and Gobs REALLY rely on on their magic too] doing that in turn 3 lost me a game not long ago too.

I think you should perhaps change Tzeentch in your fluff to just be one of his Daemons or something though. Tzeentch doesn't actually look like a Lord of Change. He looks like a massive version of the Old Horrors according to current fluff. Plus its just a bit...much? having Tzeentch in your armies personal fluff. A Great Daemon would also give you scope for some sweet fluff if you come across a Daemon Tzeentch army with a Lord of Change.

dinobot
20-06-2008, 03:03
Wow, you have to give the TK player props.

Malorian
20-06-2008, 06:01
Plus its just a bit...much? having Tzeentch in your armies personal fluff.

If you're going to do something, might as well go big :D

I was a bit worried about that actually when I wrote it... but I also needed something with enough power that they could cause the effect of that miscast and be a threat that Lahboura would HAVE to listen to.

Thanks to everyone for the replies.

YTY
20-06-2008, 09:41
Tough luck on the last one, Malorian. I was sure you were going to win, but... Of course that's one of the penalties of using a heavy magic army.

I personally didn't like the new Tzeentch fluff, but I see that's the only way to keep Labhoura going.

Waiting for more excellent reports! ;)

Dark_Mage99
20-06-2008, 23:48
Tough luck, Malorian... looks like these games against the Tomb Kings are turning into a bit of a rivalry. If Tzeentch wills it, you'll have your revenge soon enough I'm sure.

Kerill
21-06-2008, 10:34
That's some serious bad luck there, but it also shows why playing on is always worth it. Still it seemed you were doing much better than last time up to the miscast (and that your opponent made some strange charges and whatnot) The daemonic fluff is ok, although using Amon Chakai instead of Tzeentch himself would make me happier ;)

sainthale1988
21-06-2008, 10:55
whats wrong in a deamon lying and claiming that he is tzeentch? and considering that all deamons are extentions of their god tecnicaly it was tzeentch anyway? (just staying....)

Malorian
21-06-2008, 15:53
Due to popular demand, the latest fluff update has been updated ; )

Kerill
21-06-2008, 16:10
Infinitely more pleasing ;)

Malorian
26-06-2008, 15:40
Game 19: While the master sleeps...

The jouney back to the empire was a long time, but at least it gave Lahboura time to rest. Pulled along inside the back coach, and watched over by her handmaidens, she was slowly growing back to full strength.

Then the coach stopped. A patrolling band of high elfs had come across them and were setting up to attack.

Not wanted to take a chance with her black arts in her weakened state she sent her handmaidens out to lead the army.

This would be the first time they would go to battle without theit master.


My army:

Vampire w/ master of the black arts, helm of commandment *general*
Vampire w/ master of the black arts, book of arkhen
Necromancer (IoN)

23 Ghouls w/ ghast
23 Ghouls w/ ghast
Cart w/ balefire
Cart w/ balefire

7 black knights w/ barding

6 cairn wraiths


His army:

Lvl 2 mage w/ starwood staff
Lvl 2 mage w/ Skeinsilver wand
Lvl 1 mage w/ silver wand and 2 dispel scrolls

~16 archers

15 phoenix guard w/ full command and banner of sorcery
15 swordmasters w/ full command (might have had magic banner)

RBT
RBT

The board was 6X4. There was a forest on the left flank and several forests on the right flank, but they didn’t come into play.

He deployed his RBT behind the woods on the left and then had his archers in a long line w/ staff mage, swordmasters w/ scroll mage, RBT, and finally the phoenix guard w/ skein mage.

I deployed the knights behind the trees on the left, then I had ghouls w/ helm vamp, cart, cart, ghouls w/ necromancer and book vamp, and on the right I had the wraiths.

Even though he had +2 to his roll, I won first turn.


Pre-game thoughts: Well we would see how this 1500 list worked out. Normally I wouldn’t play this small of a game (even more so with vampires) but his list didn’t look too bad so I thought I’d give it a try. Basically the plan was for the knights to take out the RBT and the archers, the wraiths would take out the phoenix guard and the ghouls would team up on the swordmasters.


Turn 1 VC:

Knights move up through the trees to end on the far end. Ghouls move up with the carts lagging slightly behind. Wraiths zip off towards phoenix guard. In the magic phase both carts go off. I hit the right RBT with a gaze of nagash and kill 1 crew. I then get the book off (he is worried about the 6 PD I still had left) and the wraiths move to be just in front of the phoenix guard (Charge me or else I flank the swordmasters. Your choice…). I roll a 1 for the book and it’s gone. (Crud…) The rest of the dice are a waste as I have nothing to raise.

Turn 1 HE:

Remaining crew member of the RBT fails his terror test and flees. Phoenix guard charge the wraiths. Swordmasters move up. His magic phase is shut down. In the shooting phase his RBT kills 2 knights, and the archers kill 3 ghouls from the left unit. In combat kill the mage and force him to make a handful of ward saves… and he makes them all… I lose a wraith.

Turn 2 VC:

Knights charge RBT who fail their fear test and run, but get away. Black knights fail charge and just barely have the archers in their arch for next turn. Ghouls on the left prepare to take the charge, and the ghouls on the right prepare to hit their flank. Characters move behind the units. In the magic phase both carts go off, and I raise up the three ghouls. I try and raise a wraith but it is scrolled. In combat the wraiths kill nothing and I lose 2 wraiths… (I HATE ward saves…)

Turn 2 HE:

Swordmasters charge the ghouls on the left, and both RBT crews rally. The staff mage runs behind the knights, and the archers move up to get out of LOS. The magic phase is shut down. The archers kill 4 ghouls from the right unit. In combat the mage kills nothing. We then have to go to the rules because I thought the ASF vs ASF when one side has great weapons ruling was that great weapons go last, but a look at the FAQ proves me wrong. The swordmasters have trouble with my WS6 ghouls though and only kill 2. I then kill the mage and win the combat by 1, meaning they need double 1s which they don’t get. The swordmasters out run me though. The wraiths kill 1 phoenix guard and I’m down to 2 wraiths with 3 wounds.

Turn 3 VC:

Ghouls charge swordmasters who have to flee and get away running through the archers. They pass their panic test. Knights reform to face flank of archers. The ghouls on the right move towards the phoenix guard and all the characters join. In the magic phase both carts go off, and after a scroll I manage to get my wraiths up to 3 models. In combat my WS6 wraiths kill 1 and I lose a wraith.

Turn 3 HE:

Swordmasters fail to rally and run off the board. Magic phase is shut down. Archers kill 4 ghouls from the left unit. In combat I kill 2 this time and I’m not down to 1 wraith with 1 wound.

Turn 4 VC:

Knights charge the archers who fail their fear test (hit me on 6’s). All other units head towards phoenix guard. In the magic phase I get back up to 3 wraiths and the carts go off. In combat the knights kill 4 archers and then run them down. The wraiths kill 2 models and I lose 1.

At this point the high elf player gives up.

Victory to the vampires! (16W 3L)


The elf army was in shambles and all that was left now was for the ghouls and knights to move in and help the wraiths finish off the elven elite.

Lahboura was pleased with her handmaidens. They had fought a smart battle and taken very few losses. Now they could quickly regroup and move across the board and back into the lands of the Empire.

Little did Lahboura know that an eagle of the patrol had sped away to bring word to the Emperor of the attack, and that it wouldn’t be long before she found herself in the biggest battle she had ever been in…


Post-game thoughts: Well that pretty much went better than I planned. The knights had an easy time. The ghouls got lucky and I didn’t even need to make a flank charge to beat them. The wraiths were surprisingly horrible. I just couldn’t get passed that ward save… But the best news is that my losing streak is over! *Big cheer from the ghouls*

Next Wednesday it’s all setup for me to play against the empire player in a 4000 point battle. He won’t be using Kurt, but he will be using Franz… so Lahboura will get to practice her running again… but he says if I beat that list then I will get to play against Kurt after. (Something about how Kurt is off fighting another war and would have to come back later… I think he is going to post his fluff here later explaining it…)

Anyway, as always thank you for reading. :D

Kerill
26-06-2008, 16:31
Nice report and congrats on the win after your slump. It seems his magic did very little though, what happened there?

all_seeing_eye
26-06-2008, 16:51
Nicely done getting off your losing streak, and laying down the law for the high elves. I'm looking forward to your game against the empire wednesday. I'm sure theres going to be a couple of :wtf: moments. Can't wait.

Malorian
26-06-2008, 16:55
Well right from first turn at least one of his mages was in combat. Add into that the balefires making it marker for him to cast (and that one of the mage's spells was doom and darkness:D), it wasn't that hard to shut him down.

123DeMaere
26-06-2008, 20:04
FLUFF UPDATE

The Emperor sat in his command tent. The reports of his losses in front of him, He studied them in anger. He reviewed his changes to his army. The old tricks with his Steam tank and handgunners that slaughtered the rampaging Orcs and raiding Dark Elves would not work against this new force. He thought of why he came to this dark corner of the Empire, moral was so low the solders won't fight. Five different forces of cruel breasts attacked one province. He thought of the great victory he had against Warboss Nugrob, crushing the centre of his army himself. The great campains against the other four races, destroying them all in turn. Then only after he thought he had won the area, She came.

Suddenly, a messager came from Hochland. "Sir, A large deposit of gold has be found in the Middle Mountains close to the Hochland/Ostland boarder." he stopped shortly to caugh his breath. "Valmir Von Raukov and Aldebrand Ludenhof have both claimed this mine! The two provinces are soon to talk of civil war over the extremely rich find." . The Emperor knew only he could solve such a problem, only in person and he had to settle it soon. "Hurry, tell my captain to gather the ranks quickly. Finish the repairs to the imperial steam tank and focus all power on getting the army together and any bridable gaints or pikemen, I will wage one more campain before I return. Rush now, GO!".

With that, the messager vanished into the night. Karl grew cold and depressed. He knew the cost of defeat under this battle. Ever since he learned the serect of the vampire army, he swore he would never let his most loyal general discover the horror. But he was needed elsewhere in the Empire and had only one last chance to defeat the freaks that call themselves vampires. He had his army scattered, knowing most would not make it in time for the battle. Time was short and he could not fail again. He had to defeat the vampire army and then return with his, or lose and leave command to.... Kurt Helborg. Who has never seen Lahboura since that day... and Who might soon find out the true fate of his brother...

SevenSins
26-06-2008, 20:58
dan-dan-da!
looking forward to the 4K battle, boys :)

good rep malorian, and a nice victory over the pointy-ears :)

g0ddy
26-06-2008, 22:58
Unless im misunderstanding what you said in the battle report... You are correct in saying that a I3 ASF creature (aka ghoul) strikes before a I5 ASF Greatweapon (swordmaster...)

Unless you mean that the two of you decided since the sword masters charged.. that should override the normal GW going last issue...?

None the less, good report - I was a little surprised you planned to send the wraiths after the PG.. I guess it came to bite you in the butt later :p

~ g0ddy

sainthale1988
26-06-2008, 23:26
g0ddy: IF two unit/things have ASF they you fight in normal order (chargers, hightest initiative, GWs) they just cancel each other out.

alextroy
27-06-2008, 04:19
That's a misreading of the FAQ. It says nothing about charging affecting the order that ASF models attack.

It says that a model with Great Weapon and ASF strikes after a model with ASF that has a lower Initiative because "Effectively, the two always strikes first rules would cancel each other out." meaning that the Strikes Last rule make the Great Weapon model attack last.