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Bernardinatti
28-03-2008, 12:44
Hi all,

First post back after a bit of a break.

Now i have a question about magical lances in the second round of combat. Do you get the magical effects of a lance in a round where its has not charged? Be it second round or be it not getting the charge?

Example, VC Dreadlance, do the auto-hits count only for the round it charges or every round the vampire fights?

Thanks in advance

Lordmonkey
28-03-2008, 12:49
Nope, just the first round i'm afraid. If it was a sword or similar then it would be every round, but a lance is only every used on the charge and only then in the first round of combat.

To be honest, if you havent killed/broken your enemy using your Vampire Lord with the Dreadlance, your either fighting a stubborn unit or you've sent your general on a suicide mission :p

EvC
28-03-2008, 13:01
Beware the previous post, Lordmonkey has just used the hated common sense to answer your question, rather than an evaluation of the actual rules ;)

You still use the lance in every round of combat, and abilities only run out if they are said to only work on the charge (or whatever). You always fight with the Dreadlance, which always automatically hits, even if you are charged, and even in the second round of combat.

Festus
28-03-2008, 13:10
Hi

EvC is correct: You may not change weapons in a combat and you must fight with a Magic Weapon if you have one, so you are stuck with the lance in the second and subsequent turns.
(There are exceptions, though: Bret characters may switch from mundane Lance to magical weapon, and if the character becomes unmounted - eg. because his mount is killed - the lance becomes unusable as well)

Magic Effects of a weapon apply as given in the rules of the Weapon: ie. either *only on the charge* or *once per game* or - per default - always.

Festus

Bernardinatti
28-03-2008, 13:21
Thanks for the replies guys,

I thought that was the case, but i was just seeing if it was the common consensus.

Shame, i kinda had hoped that it was only on the charge, me no like dreadlance.

Cheers.

Lordmonkey
28-03-2008, 13:28
You still use the lance in every round of combat, and abilities only run out if they are said to only work on the charge (or whatever). You always fight with the Dreadlance, which always automatically hits, even if you are charged, and even in the second round of combat.

You are kidding, right? I don't have a copy of the rulebook to hand right now, but i'm sure (in 6th ed.) the lance was dropped for an alternative weapon for subsequent rounds of combat.

Did this change?

Bernardinatti
28-03-2008, 13:34
As far as i knew.

I thought you only changed weapons in the middle of a combat if you were either Brettonian's with lances and magic swords or the old eltharion the grim.

Festus
28-03-2008, 13:35
Hi

You are kidding, right? I don't have a copy of the rulebook to hand right now, but i'm sure (in 6th ed.) the lance was dropped for an alternative weapon for subsequent rounds of combat.

Did this change?
Do not be too sure - even in 6th you did not change weapons in a combat. BRB6, p.88 and p.91

:D

Festus

EvC
28-03-2008, 13:36
I don't know if you dropped your lance in 6th edition- it generally didn't affect anything anyway, as a lance in the second round of combat gives exactly the same effect as a hand weapon on cavalry. But forget 6th edition. There was no Dreadlance in 6th edition. We're playing 7th edition now. And what I and Festus states is how you play it. Note that the +2S part of the Dreadlance does only apply on the charge.

Lordmonkey
28-03-2008, 13:47
I don't know if you dropped your lance in 6th edition- it generally didn't affect anything anyway, as a lance in the second round of combat gives exactly the same effect as a hand weapon on cavalry. But forget 6th edition. There was no Dreadlance in 6th edition. We're playing 7th edition now. And what I and Festus states is how you play it. Note that the +2S part of the Dreadlance does only apply on the charge.

I'll take your word for it, although i'm definitely going to check this out when i can see my rulebook - thanks for the page references Festus :)

It doesn't seem to make a great deal of sense though, does it? :wtf:

Nurgling Chieftain
28-03-2008, 20:15
It doesn't seem to make a great deal of sense though, does it? :wtf:Lances are made for charging, but you can still poke people with them. :p

Mercules
28-03-2008, 20:52
I'll take your word for it, although i'm definitely going to check this out when i can see my rulebook - thanks for the page references Festus :)

It doesn't seem to make a great deal of sense though, does it? :wtf:

Why not... units use Pikes in CC. Pikes are at least as long, if not longer than spears.

Pac
28-03-2008, 20:54
The lance is a Magic Weapen... you can't drop a Magic Weapon and use a common weapon.

SuperBeast
28-03-2008, 22:52
Lances are simply handweapons that give you +2S on the charge, and can only be used if mounted.

That's the only thing the rules have to say on the matter.

Lordmonkey
28-03-2008, 23:45
Pfft, i'd like to see *anyone* wield a 14ft lance in close quarters fighting...

"Excuse me old chap, could you just back up several yards so I can give you a good prodding with this here pole?"

Still, rules are rules.

loveless
29-03-2008, 00:40
Pfft, i'd like to see *anyone* wield a 14ft lance in close quarters fighting...


Never underestimate the power of Vampire using his lance like a massive club :p

Lordmonkey
29-03-2008, 00:50
Never underestimate the power of Vampire using his lance like a massive club :p

Haha, thats put such a funny image in my head :D

Chicago Slim
29-03-2008, 01:06
It doesn't seem to make a great deal of sense though, does it? :wtf:

Well, when's the last time *you* charged into combat with a lance?

As a western martial artist, I can tell you, at least, what the 14th-15th century German and Italian authors giving instructions on fighting from horseback said about it: Don't drop the lance, you might want it later (and anyway, it'll take a moment to draw your arming sword; if the enemy is right on top of you, that's a dangerous moment in which to be disarmed).

Instead, they generally said, when the enemy is hard upon you, hit them with the butt end of the lance, or with your shield, or wrestle them off their horse (yes, seriously), or (especially when fighting infantry) grip the lance by its shaft, and stab with the point (like a very long-handled thrusting sword).


In game terms, if cavalry were dropping lances after the charge, then they presumably wouldn't have them for secondary charges!

Also, EVERY magic lance has some (potential) game effect, even on turns when the wielder didn't charge: they can affect Ethereal opponents.

Chicago Slim
29-03-2008, 01:19
Pfft, i'd like to see *anyone* wield a 14ft lance in close quarters fighting...

Well, the nearest Western Martial Arts group to Tamworth, that I personally know of, is the Dawn Duelists: http://www.dawnduellists.co.uk/

I don't think that any of them do fighting from horseback, but they might know who locally to put you in touch with. Or, if you come out to Chicago, I can introduce you to the locals who are doing fighting from horseback, here.

There's also some good plates of it in Fiore dei Liberi's 14th century Italian martial arts manual; See http://mac9.ucc.nau.edu/novati/novati.pdf , especially pages 40-50 or so...


(Sorry-- you've hit me right in the only hobby that I'm more obsessive about than Warhammer...)