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Kabal of The Ordo Mallius
28-03-2008, 13:20
I am a newbie player who is starting up with Vampire Counts. I have a few questions...most of which will sound stupid to a veteren player so I apologize in advance. I played WH40k before I got interested in fantasy, so I understand the core rules do a degree.

1) Can I cast IoN, or other spells in combat?

2) Skeletons have light armour, shield, and hw, does this mean they have a 4+ save in CC vs. front and a 5+ vs. shooting?

3) Due to the Vargualf's rules about having no flank or rear, can it charge in any direction 360 degrees like skirmishers?

4) If a necromancer is mounted on a corpse cart and dies, does the cart roll on monster reaction table?

5) Ghouls, Dire Wolves, and Bat Swarms do not have saves correct?

6) How exactly do Bound spells work in terms of casting and most of all dispelling? Miasma of Deathly Vigour (Bound Level 3) is what i am most confused about.

7) If the enemy kills 9 zombies does he get 9 combat resolution points, or is there a cap on the number of points earned in this way?

8) If i charge with multiple units, does th enemy have to take multiple fear tests?

These are all the questions I can think of that have arisen during gameplay (against lizardmen sadly). Thanks for any anwers in advance :D!

Lordmonkey
28-03-2008, 13:39
1) Can I cast IoN, or other spells in combat?

With regards to Ion and Vanhel's Danse macabre, this is the source of much debate at present. However, this is due for an FAQ pre-GT (June), and the answer will be "Yes". I notice your profile says you are in Canada - I understand that one of the Canadian tournaments ruled it as a "yes", if this has any bearing.

Other spells may only be cast into combat if the specifically say so in the spell description.



2) Skeletons have light armour, shield, and hw, does this mean they have a 4+ save in CC vs. front and a 5+ vs. shooting?

Yup.



3) Due to the Vargualf's rules about having no flank or rear, can it charge in any direction 360 degrees like skirmishers?

AFAIK, no. However, it does mean that it cannot be flanked or rear-charged, and so your opponent will not gain a +1/+2 bonus when charging a flank/rear.



4) If a necromancer is mounted on a corpse cart and dies, does the cart roll on monster reaction table?

Good question. Since it can be fielded as an unridden monster, my gut reaction would be no. I'm think it's immunity to psychology might prevent this. However, I could be wrong.



5) Ghouls, Dire Wolves, and Bat Swarms do not have saves correct?


Yep.



6) How exactly do Bound spells work in terms of casting and most of all dispelling? Miasma of Deathly Vigour (Bound Level 3) is what i am most confused about.

Bound spells cost no power dice to cast - they are essentially "free". You can only cast each one once per turn, unless otherwise stated. The power of the spell is equal to the power level (so 3, in this case). This means that the opponent must roll at least 3 to dispel it.



7) If the enemy kills 9 zombies does he get 9 combat resolution points, or is there a cap on the number of points earned in this way?


Nope, no cap.




8) If i charge with multiple units, does th enemy have to take multiple fear tests?

Yes, one from each source. Remember to have your opponent specify which test is taken for which charging unit, as some may cause the enemy to flee and some may not, due to unit strength.

Hope this helps! :)

EvC
28-03-2008, 13:43
Good answers. On (4), there's a passage in the book saying any ridden model with 2 or more wounds counts as a monstrous mount, so the Corpse Cart will indeed need a monster reaction test if the Necromancer on top is slain (I was quite impressed when I found it out too).

Bernardinatti
28-03-2008, 13:48
Well to answer your questions in summary (if someone has not already beaten me by the time i type this)

1)There is a bit of debate on this (myself on the losing side, just because i can get stubborn when people throw certain words around) but ION can PROBABLY be cast into close combat and many gamers play this way. Other spells need to have it specifically stated in their spell description.

2)Yes that is entirely correct

3)Not as far as i know because it is still a monster, the bestial fury rule only applies to close combat and not giving a +1 or +2 for attacking in the sides or rear with US 5 or more.

4)Again, i believe there may be a bit of ambiguity on this subject but personally common sense tells me that no it operates more like a chariot in this respect.

5) that is correct

6)Bound spells are spells that you can cast in the magic phase for free. You don't have to roll to cast, it succeeds everytime, it is offset by the fact that you generally need very little to dispel. This is shown by the power level. The number given for the power level (in your case, 3) is what the opponent needs to roll to dispel it. Magic resistance applies as usual. I believe there is some debate (i at least am not entirely sure) about whether a wizard with a RiP spell loses it if casting a bound spell...but that wouldn't apply to corpse carts

7) No, kills are not capped (not counting overkills in challenges but that's a different kettle of fish) ranks are capped at +3 generally. but you can have as many kills as you want in order to contribute to combat res.

8)I believe not, as far as i know you only take one fear or terror test a turn...but i may be vetoed by a higher more well informed authority about that.

Lordmonkey
28-03-2008, 13:49
Good answers. On (4), there's a passage in the book saying any ridden model with 2 or more wounds counts as a monstrous mount, so the Corpse Cart will indeed need a monster reaction test if the Necromancer on top is slain (I was quite impressed when I found it out too).

Even more reason never to use a Necromancer then! :D

explorator
28-03-2008, 14:10
Perhaps this is why the Corpse Cart has high ld (for the new VC)? I don't see a Monster Reaction test as being a huge negative. If failed while the Cart is in combat then Stupidity won't matter, nor will the 'whimper' result, and while Frenzy/Hatred might get it killed, it would be entertaining.

WLBjork
28-03-2008, 17:25
The Corpse Cart has average LD, not high I'm afraid.

As for how it works, it's a little confusing.

The Designers' note that it moves and fights as a monster. Sadly, they don't tell us which other rules to use.

Oberon
28-03-2008, 17:35
In VC army of LD 3 and 2 as a norm, LD 6 or 7 is quite high (can't remember what LD CC has, only had to roll monster reaction once and got insane courage...).

Lord of Skulls
28-03-2008, 17:43
8) If i charge with multiple units, does th enemy have to take multiple fear tests?
I might be wrong, but as far as I can see you would only take a fear/terror test for the first unit to charge, since once the first charge is complete you are in combat, and therefore immune to psychology.

EvC
28-03-2008, 18:04
You're right- in that you're wrong. You take Fear tests before moving chargers.

Oberon
28-03-2008, 18:07
Plus units in combat are not immune to psych per se, they just pass those tests automatically. Thus they can be autobroken in CC by outnumbering fear-causers (bearing insane heroism in mind, of course).

EDIT: thx Atrahasis, an important difference there.

Atrahasis
28-03-2008, 18:10
No, they don't pass automatically, they just don't take the tests - important for terror.

Kabal of The Ordo Mallius
29-03-2008, 00:28
Okay clarification. If a spell is bound level 3, the enemy need only roll 1 dispell dice and get a 3+? Also IoN/Necro spells MAY be cast while the wizard is in combat?

Lordmonkey
29-03-2008, 00:48
Okay clarification. If a spell is bound level 3, the enemy need only roll 1 dispell dice and get a 3+?

Yes. They may roll as many dice as they have available, but it is possible to dispel a bound 3 spell using a single dice if a 3+ is rolled.


Also IoN/Necro spells MAY be cast while the wizard is in combat?

Yes. AFAIK, there is nothing to prevent a wizard casting spells while in combat. The only restriction is casting them into combat (i.e., the target of the spell is a unit that is engaged in combat). However, as previously mentioned, IoN will recieve an FAQ that allows this in June.

Bernardinatti
29-03-2008, 02:08
However, as previously mentioned, IoN will recieve an FAQ that allows this in June.

MAY allow it..unless you're writing it, i don't think we really know diddly squat what's ACTUALLY going to put into the FAQ let alone which side of the fence it will fall...but i'm just being pedantic

Atrahasis
29-03-2008, 02:15
Where in the name of Sigmar are you getting "June" from?

Lordmonkey
29-03-2008, 02:43
MAY allow it..unless you're writing it, i don't think we really know diddly squat what's ACTUALLY going to put into the FAQ let alone which side of the fence it will fall...but i'm just being pedantic

I've had a lot of "official" sources confirm this for me, including GW staff, rules trolls, etc. but this doesn't seem to be enough for a lot of people. Considering the rules trolls are there to answer rules query about a game that their company designed, I can't really see how it can get any more official than that, short of an army book rewrite. Regardless, I don't want to start another debate over this - there are two threads about it already.


Where in the name of Sigmar are you getting "June" from?

June, as in pre Grand Tournament time, is when i'm told this will be FAQ'd.

Xavier
29-03-2008, 04:22
Do Dire Wolves not have a 6+ for being 'cavalry' or am I being dense at this ungodly hour of the morning :p

WLBjork
29-03-2008, 07:09
Nope - check page 30. Although DW class as cavalry, they don't consist of a mount and rider, and thus don't benefit from the +1 save.

Atrahasis
29-03-2008, 08:27
I've had a lot of "official" sources confirm this for me, including GW staff, rules trolls, etc. but this doesn't seem to be enough for a lot of people. Considering the rules trolls are there to answer rules query about a game that their company designed, I can't really see how it can get any more official than that, short of an army book rewrite. Regardless, I don't want to start another debate over this - there are two threads about it already.Ahahahahaha. You think the rules trolls know what they're talking about. That's priceless.


June, as in pre Grand Tournament time, is when i'm told this will be FAQ'd.

As someone who knows the guy compiling questions to be handed to Allessio to answer, I can say that June is optimistic. It's possible, but anyone who told you that as a firm date is pulling answers out of thin air.

Anyone who says they can tell you what's going to be in a document that isn't written yet, is overstating their case.

The FAQ will, in all likelihood, allow IoN into combat. It may come out in June. Whoever's touting either as definite is just setting themselves up to look foolish when the FAQ is delayed 6 months (which has happened with several we're still waiting for).

Necronoxz
29-03-2008, 10:17
vanhel's dance macabre can be cast in combat ;)
becouse then the target unit get ASF instead of moving :P
for IoN I think this also can be cast in combat becouse it's a raise spell...
same like raise dead and summon undead horde.
Curse of years can also be cast into combat read the spell itself for this.
Wind of undead just effect every enemy unit on the battle field :P
Gaze of nagash can NOT be cast into combat becouse its a magic missale

Lordmonkey
29-03-2008, 16:23
As someone who knows the guy compiling questions to be handed to Allessio to answer, I can say that June is optimistic. It's possible, but anyone who told you that as a firm date is pulling answers out of thin air.

Anyone who says they can tell you what's going to be in a document that isn't written yet, is overstating their case.

The FAQ will, in all likelihood, allow IoN into combat. It may come out in June. Whoever's touting either as definite is just setting themselves up to look foolish when the FAQ is delayed 6 months (which has happened with several we're still waiting for).

Fair enough. But why are the questions to be handed to Alessio? He didn't write this edition of the book, Gav did.

EvC
29-03-2008, 16:46
The fatc Gac don't work for the company any more might be the reason for that ;)

Lordmonkey
29-03-2008, 18:21
The fatc Gac don't work for the company any more might be the reason for that ;)

Good point :D

DarkStarr
30-03-2008, 00:36
Simple answer if you ever doubt it or you are playing a good for nothing rules lawyer who is on the losing side of a battle and questions you, GW number to call to get clarification on the rules reguarding vamps casting in combat 888-498-7655.

You can cast Vanhel's danse macabre, Invocation of nehek,Rais dead, Curse of years, Wind of undeath, and finally Summon undead horde in COMBAT.

That meens the only lore of vampires spell that you can not cast in combat is Gaze of Nagash because it is a magic missle that requires los and all other spell are allowed.

Atrahasis
30-03-2008, 01:50
Are you talking about casting while in combat or casting into combat? There is a marked difference.

DarkStarr
30-03-2008, 02:36
Both they can do both since none of those spell need los. And state can be cast on modles in hant to hand.

To make it clear, all spells mentioned in the thread obove exept for gaze of nagash may be cast in or out of hand to hand and onto a unit in or out of hand to hand as per the spell description.

EldarBishop
30-03-2008, 06:43
Varghulf operates as a monster (and as such follows the monster rules from the main rulebook pg 58-61)

The corpse cart needing a monster reaction is odd... I'd simply avoid this for now. Hopefully the FAQ will make the logical choice and say it doesn't need one, but the RaW do not support this at this time.