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Urgat
28-03-2008, 15:50
Well, the question is pretty simple: can squigs jump over castle walls/towers, or on them, or charge enemies on a wall/tower?

Mercules
28-03-2008, 16:49
Do they fly? Then no unless you house-rule it so.

Festus
28-03-2008, 16:51
Hi

Better question still: Are there any Siege-rules for 7th Ed.?


I have to agree with Mercules: A Castle Wall should be an impassable obstacle to attackers, unless using a ladder or a siegetower. And I cannot picture Squighopper using either. :)

Festus

Urgat
28-03-2008, 17:14
Well, they're hopping :p
So, and what about spider riders? Do castle walls count as buildings, and therefore doesn't allow the wall crawler rule to be used on... walls?

Festus: nah, but there's rules in previous editions, so just assume I'd be using these with the new armybook.

Mercules
28-03-2008, 17:29
Squiqs existed in previous versions, yes? What do the previous rules say about them? If they say nothing about them then they follow all the rules like everyone else.

redrum
28-03-2008, 17:32
Well, as far as the spider riders I guess it depends on whether a castle wall is considered Impassible Terrain or merely difficult/very difficult. If it's the latter then spider riders can use the wall crawler rule, if it's the former they can't.

Squigs don't have any special rules allowing them to ignore terrain unfortunately, it is fun to imagine one hopping on top of a wall to attack someone though :D

Urgat
28-03-2008, 17:32
Squiqs existed in previous versions, yes? What do the previous rules say about them? If they say nothing about them then they follow all the rules like everyone else.

Yeah, well, you've already replied, and I've already asked something else, is there some need to be agressive and rub it in any further?


Well, as far as the spider riders I guess it depends on whether a castle wall is considered Impassible Terrain or merely difficult/very difficult. If it's the latter then spider riders can use the wall crawler rule, if it's the former they can't.

I don't remember, but it seems pretty obvious they're impassable. So my spiders can't even get on walls. Brilliant >.>

edit: I don't have my 6th edition BRB at hand, but funnily enough, I do have the old 5th edition siege book handy, and there's a mention about spiders and giant spiders allowing them to climb walls (page 9, they could charge and attacked first on charge, but needed 6's to hit because walls are defended obstacles). Is there anything like that in the 6th ed BRB rules?

Mercules
28-03-2008, 18:10
Yeah, well, you've already replied, and I've already asked something else, is there some need to be agressive and rub it in any further?

My apologies. My intent was not to be snarky(rude). I have an issue where I don't always realize how I said something could be mistaken for being rude and have it even in face to face communication. One of my best friend's first impressions of me was that I was a huge jerk, until he realized the truth. I'll try and watch my approach and not let that sneak in again. Deal?

Edit: Ah... now I see it. I wasn't trying to be a smart-ass in my questions. They were valid questions as I played a tiny bit a LONG time ago with a borrowed book and army and have just taken up WHFB again since 7th so I don't have access to the 6th Edition books and siege rules specifically. Therefore I was covering my butt by asking if their were specific rules for them.

redrum
28-03-2008, 18:22
[QUOTE=Urgat;2476490]
I don't remember, but it seems pretty obvious they're impassable. So my spiders can't even get on walls. Brilliant >.>

QUOTE]
Lol, yeah it doesn't make a lot of sense when you put it like that. Sadly the wallcrawler rules specifically state that they ignore difficult/very difficult terrain but makes no mention of impassible. I guess the spiders just tire out before they make it to the top or something ;)

Urgat
28-03-2008, 18:36
My apologies. My intent was not to be snarky(rude). I have an issue where I don't always realize how I said something could be mistaken for being rude and have it even in face to face communication. One of my best friend's first impressions of me was that I was a huge jerk, until he realized the truth. I'll try and watch my approach and not let that sneak in again. Deal?

Sure, I have the same problem anyway (see sig). No harm done.

Redrum: yeah, I find amusing that spiders cannot do that, but yetees can...

Arnizipal
28-03-2008, 18:42
Since the rule itself is called wall-crawlers I would allow them to crawl on walls. ;)
Of course this isn't RAW, but it could easily be house-ruled.

Sergeant Uriel Ventris
28-03-2008, 19:30
I must agree, if spiders with the Wallcrawlers special rule can't make it up castle walls, then we've really gone off the deep end with crazy. I'd let you do it. I am, however, super biased as I love both Orcs and Goblins AND common sense. But not squig hoppers, I don't see how they could get up there.

Festus
28-03-2008, 19:39
Since the rule itself is called wall-crawlers I would allow them to crawl on walls. ;)
Of course this isn't RAW, but it could easily be house-ruled.
The voice of reason! Blessed be!

The spiders suffer no penalties for difficult ground - should that extend to very difficult ground or even impassable terrain? I do not think so, honestly.

BTW: It would be horribly broken in a Siege Scenario - just like flyers. The Siege Book of 5th Ed. had the Flyers points cost doubled for this very reason.

Festus

redrum
28-03-2008, 19:45
The voice of reason! Blessed be!

The spiders suffer no penalties for difficult ground - should that extend to very difficult ground or even impassable terrain? I do not think so, honestly.

Festus


Actually the rule specifically states "They are not slowed by difficult or very difficult terrain or obstacles." So, very difficult yes, impassable no.

Although frankly I'd allow it in a casual game. And frankly it does seem like Squig Hoppers should have some provision about certain terrain types. They are hopping after all, why couldn't they hop over a small wall or some hedges?

Festus
28-03-2008, 20:10
Hi

Actually the rule specifically states "They are not slowed by difficult or very difficult terrain or obstacles."
Thanks - my mistake ... that should teach me to read the whole rule - once again :eek:

Well, yes, so very difficult it is.

What are castle walls? Very difficult? So knights can scale them at a 1/4 of their move?
Terrain has to be established by the players before the games starts, but I would be very hard pressed to define castle walls either as very difficult or an obstacle.

Festus

Mercules
28-03-2008, 20:18
Terrain has to be established by the players before the games starts, but I would be very hard pressed to define castle walls either as very difficult or an obstacle.

I'd define it as Impassible - with exceptions. Those exceptions would be Troops in a siege tower, troops with ladders, troops with a rule to pass over/through Impassible terrain. Then I would likely argue for a Houserule that Wallcrawling allows one to treat castle walls as clear ground. RAW doesn't allow Yhetees to scale the walls either as they are not in the list of items. They are technically Caste Walls and not Cliffs.

Masque
28-03-2008, 22:41
And frankly it does seem like Squig Hoppers should have some provision about certain terrain types. They are hopping after all, why couldn't they hop over a small wall or some hedges?

They can cross small walls and hedges. They are skirmishers and skirmishers ignore obstacles and (very) difficult terrain.

Urgat
28-03-2008, 23:21
BTW: It would be horribly broken in a Siege Scenario - just like flyers. The Siege Book of 5th Ed. had the Flyers points cost doubled for this very reason.

Well, not really: even if the gobs can charge, they still get all the malus for fighting against defended obstacles. Flyers can just hop anywhere they want inside the castle, and from there, hit anything they want, from behind, allowing them to ignore the protection of the walls. That's very different. And, well, spider riders are still just gobs :p Flyers were double the poj t in 5th edition (probably in 6th too, I suppose), but spiders were not, but still were specifically mentioned as being allowed to scale up walls.
It's annoying, really, I have a siege battle planed soon, and in the end it's not so much a matter of RAW or not, but a matter of absence of rules... I really don't get why sieges have been ignored like that, I mean, castle sieges, they're emblematic of fanatsy (or real medieval) settings, so why?

Mad Makz
28-03-2008, 23:24
As siege is never a 'competitive' game, (e.g it's entirely unbalanced and reason and attitudes of what is good for the game should be applied) I would say squig hoppers must, like other skirmishes, be armed with grappling hooks to scale castle walls (assuming we were taking a significant amount of the siege rules from the 5th edition siege book, which is the most complete and fun way to approach things as Siege to me was always best as a multipart narrative campaign.)

redrum
29-03-2008, 01:01
They can cross small walls and hedges. They are skirmishers and skirmishers ignore obstacles and (very) difficult terrain.

And right you are, I totally forgot about the Skirmish rules. Thanks for the correction.

T10
29-03-2008, 13:22
Commander Terilam: "... and I've re-assigned twenty spears from the south-wall to assist to the west. It seems the enemy is mustering for an all-out assault on that side again."

Prince Lyrain Tel'Shar: "Excellent. You are rather getting a hang of this sport, Commander?"

Commander: "If you say so, Sir."

Prince: "I do say so. Now, what are those things?"

Commander: "Eh, well, those are the goblin squig riders, sir."

Prince: "Yes, I can see that, Commander. I do have eyes, you know. Why are they hanging on my wall?"

Commander: "They attempted to scale the walls this morning using grappling hooks, sir. Their squigs would hop as high as they could and the rider would attach the hooks."

Prince: "And that failed?"

Commander: "Gravity, sir."

Prince: "Ha ha, most amusing. I would have liked to see that. Would have made a superb story for the court. The king, you know, he enjoys a good laugh."

Commander: "My apologies, we did not want to interrupt you breakfast."

Prince: "No worries. Why are they still there?"

Commander (embarassed): "The men, sir, they are taking bets on which will hang there the longest. I'll put an end to it immediately."

Prince: "You'll do no such thing. This is good for morale! The men need a bit of distraction from the tedium of fending off these greenskins. Poetry sessions can inspire only so much, you know. And- Ooh! Look! There goes one..! (appreciative pause) Delightfully amusing. Did you see him bounce? Yes, of course you did. Commander, I want them gone by night-fall - we can wait that long."

Commander: "Very good, sir."

Prince: "And put me down for three stars on that skinny one to the right. He looks like a tough little cretin."

-T10

Urgat
29-03-2008, 13:27
Lol. Although I can't picture how the gob would be able to keep the squig in this conditions, you need some serious leg pressure for that :p (and a rather tame squig, too).

T10
29-03-2008, 13:38
I kinda envisioned this as the goblin remaining and the squig, well, leaving. :)

-T10

Mad Makz
29-03-2008, 21:15
They are Goblins, their tactics don't have to make sense for them to be used (or in fact even to work!). :)