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Lorgar
28-03-2008, 22:30
I was reading Fulgrim when I found what I consider to be proof that both Jaghatai Khan and Leman Russ is alive inside the Warp. On page 221, Eldrad Ulthran remembers a vision he had concerning the human race. I quote:

He saw the rise of warriors, the treachery of kings, and the great eye opening to release the mighty heroes of legend trapped there to return to their warriors' sides for the final battle.

It seems to me that "the great eye" is the Eye of Terror, and as far as I know thats where Leman Russ disappeared. Jaghatai Khan went into the Webway, and it's connected to the Warp, and thereby the Eye of Terror.

So, what do you make of all this? Am I right or wrong?

Yarick Zan
28-03-2008, 22:34
Both. See Schrödinger's cat. Until it happens, you are both right and wrong at the same time.

heretics bane
28-03-2008, 22:50
Khan chased dark eldar through the webway? wich isnt technicly the warp so hes kind of safe just trapped in Corramgh(sp? dark eldar city) and it dosnt curropt you like the warp, the eldar wouldnt use it then.

Russ has the Cainus helix that turns him and other SW inTO wolves when dealing with absolute raw chaos, with lesser stuff they can feel it come on. Its a defense mechanisum so he should be alright.

And just because it says "warp" dosnt automaticly mean the EOT theres also the maesltrom and various onther warp over lays like the EOT

The_Outsider
28-03-2008, 22:58
Khan chased dark eldar through the webway? wich isnt technicly the warp so hes kind of safe just trapped in Corramgh(sp? dark eldar city) and it dosnt curropt you like the warp, the eldar wouldnt use it then.

Knowing the HH series they are probably retconning a ton of established stuff.


Russ has the Cainus helix that turns him and other SW inTO wolves when dealing with absolute raw chaos, with lesser stuff they can feel it come on. Its a defense mechanisum so he should be alright.


Comsidering "normal" SW have resisted chaos for as long as chaos marines have been slowly mutated by it I imagine one as mighty as a primarch would easily resist it.

That or he would have ot get hit with such a huge amount of warp energy that it would probably destroy his body.

Archangel_Ruined
29-03-2008, 00:02
It's one of those questions that will never be answered as the fluff will never get that far. I'd like to think so though, Khan and Russ still rolling around, bashing skulls and being general bad-asses. I wonder if they've met up on their travels?

Mad King George
29-03-2008, 00:10
Russ is to stubborn to die and to loyal to give in to chaos, he will come back for the wolf time and rally the wolves at the spear head of pushing back another chaos crusade

Archangel_Ruined
29-03-2008, 00:22
That said, Corax is supposed to be floating around in there somewhere. Primarchs were supposed to be bloody hard, so there's a good chance at least one of them is still giving it the beans.

Vercingetorix
29-03-2008, 00:31
Corax, Russ and the Khan are all supposed to be in there, yes.

rickie8437
29-03-2008, 00:50
yep Russ is taking them on a pub crawle around the EoT

last 10k years there are well smashed and so is anything that gets inthere way

Mad King George
29-03-2008, 01:00
Corax, Russ and the Khan are all supposed to be in there, yes.

though they have found Russ's armour among other artifacts.

so is Russ even more of a wolf than ever?


yep Russ is taking them on a pub crawle around the EoT

last 10k years there are well smashed and so is anything that gets inthere way


they built a Tarven and the chaos marines go and investigate, a young blood claw stumbles out and a chaos marine bumps into him spilling his beer, the blood claw looks down at his feet watching the drops of beer roll off his armor, he slowly finishes beer looks up and knocks the chaos marine out cold with his tankard, and walks back inside to get some more drink telling people theres a funny looking fellow out for the count outside, they all burst out into laughter. >_<

heretics bane
29-03-2008, 01:02
more than likely along with pretty much all the 13th co.

Feor
29-03-2008, 01:21
Kahn is in Cormorragh, not the EoT, Vulkan, on the other hand, went AWOL sometime not long after the Heresy, (presuming they don't retcon him dead on Istvaan, Fulgrim does describe him taking a Turbolaser in the face) and the only place they haven't been able to look for him is in The Eye. He's also one with a legend about how he'll return for his Chapter's darkest days to lead them to glory.

Michael M.
29-03-2008, 04:41
Russ had take off the armour for some mud wrestling with some daemonetts.
It´s not the warp that turns a SW into a wolfen. It comes from our geneseed. Read the first SW novel, there it´s quite good descript. In fact it´s the canix helix that make the SW more resistable against chaos.

Mad King George
29-03-2008, 04:58
i never said the warp made him, wulfen i just saying he might be wulfen and running around in furs and leathers like in the good old days

Vercingetorix
29-03-2008, 06:05
I do believe it is indeed the Canis Helix that essentially took precedence when it came to mutation, over the other things in the Warp. Hence, the 13th Company, if mutated at all, mutated into the Wolfen, and not into other Warp-nasties.

ryng_sting
29-03-2008, 07:32
I was reading Fulgrim when I found what I consider to be proof that both Jaghatai Khan and Leman Russ is [sic] alive inside the Warp.


Possibly. The description, however, could refer to the Chaos Primarchs just as easily. Think about it.

Avaron
29-03-2008, 08:00
If you belive in the legend of russ then there is no doubt that he will return for the final battle. if on the other hand you consider him just a great man than it matters not for he is simply a man nothing more.

(paraphrased from a episode of DS9 that was on last night)

Hellebore
29-03-2008, 08:17
Kahn is in Cormorragh, not the EoT, Vulkan, on the other hand, went AWOL sometime not long after the Heresy, (presuming they don't retcon him dead on Istvaan, Fulgrim does describe him taking a Turbolaser in the face) and the only place they haven't been able to look for him is in The Eye. He's also one with a legend about how he'll return for his Chapter's darkest days to lead them to glory.


They better not. He is the least used of all the loyalist Primarchs, even Corax has more about him than Vulkan. I will be seriously disappointed if Vulkan and the Salamanders are sidelined. They have a lot of untapped potential.

Of all the loyal primarchs I'd say that in terms of story and background they'd be ranked like this:

Leman Russ
Sanguinius
Lion El'Jonson
Roboute Guilliman
Rogal Dorn
Ferrus Manus (since Fulgrim where almost his entire background was stolen from Vulkan)
Jaghatai Khan
Corax
Vulkan


Vulkan has a great character type and I would be very disappointed if nothing was written about him.

Hellebore

Archangel_Ruined
29-03-2008, 11:11
I don't think Khan is trapped in Corrmargh (or however we're spelling it today...), he'd be hard enough to leave of his own accord or die trying, and as we've noted it takes an awful lot to kill a primarch. Either way, that's four primarchs mooching around in the almost immaterium, that's a combat squad for apocalypse games...

DantesInferno
29-03-2008, 11:18
Seeing as the original question has been somewhat forgotten....


I was reading Fulgrim when I found what I consider to be proof that both Jaghatai Khan and Leman Russ is alive inside the Warp. On page 221, Eldrad Ulthran remembers a vision he had concerning the human race. I quote:

He saw the rise of warriors, the treachery of kings, and the great eye opening to release the mighty heroes of legend trapped there to return to their warriors' sides for the final battle.

It seems to me that "the great eye" is the Eye of Terror, and as far as I know thats where Leman Russ disappeared. Jaghatai Khan went into the Webway, and it's connected to the Warp, and thereby the Eye of Terror.

So, what do you make of all this? Am I right or wrong?

It's certainly not "proof" that Khan and Russ are alive within the Eye.

Eldar Farseers operate by using their powers to view possible futures, and then doing their best to ensure that what actually happens is the most desirable of the possible futures. The mere fact that an Eldar Farseer has a vision doesn't mean that its contents are in any way inevitable. Otherwise, Farseer Maechu's vision reported in the Necron Codex makes the hypothetical return of the Primarchs a bit of a moot point...

Lorgar
29-03-2008, 11:44
Possibly. The description, however, could refer to the Chaos Primarchs just as easily. Think about it.

Well, I find it hard to believe that he would refer to them as "the mighty heroes" if they were tainted with Chaos. Besides, they are not trapped inside the Eye of Terror. Angron managed to wage war on Armageddon, and Abaddon, who is less powerful than a primarch, goes on his Black Crusades every now and then.

keatsmeister
30-03-2008, 23:46
Well, I find it hard to believe that he would refer to them as "the mighty heroes" if they were tainted with Chaos.

Heroes to whom though?

I'm inclined to believe of all the possibilities, the fluff lends more towards Russ being dead. Why else would Magnus spend so much attention on Fenris and the Wolves when Russ is in his back yard? Maybe to bring Russ out of the woodwork?

Archangel_Ruined
31-03-2008, 11:44
I don't think it's ever been hinted that Russ is dead, just missing. I'd say it's much the same thing as I can't see GW advancing the fluff to the point when a primarch comes back to save his legion. Imagine the rules, they'd be like C'Tan with structure points...

Mad King George
31-03-2008, 14:05
Russ dead... how dare you

Emperor's Grace
31-03-2008, 16:13
so hes kind of safe just trapped in Corramgh

I don't know that anyone trapped in a city of dark eldar could be considered "safe" :D

Simon Sez
31-03-2008, 16:25
don't know that anyone trapped in a city of dark eldar could be considered "safe"Well if the Khan's really in there the Dark Eldar certainly won't! All that horrific butchery they blame on the Mandrakes? That's him that is, the 'Drakes just carry those knives for protection; why do you think they're always signing up to go on raidsvery far away?!!

Its a hart-warming thought really; believing those guys are still fighting it out after the millennia (Not that they would notice time in the Eye of course)

jibbajabbawocky
31-03-2008, 17:24
Well if the Khan's really in there the Dark Eldar certainly won't! All that horrific butchery they blame on the Mandrakes? That's him that is, the 'Drakes just carry those knives for protection; why do you think they're always signing up to go on raidsvery far away?!!


I prefer to think of there being a Jagharti Khan Containment Zone in Comorragh... a big fenced off area that foolish Dark Eldar wander into, and are immediately torn apart my a maniac on a Harley Davidson.

Archangel_Ruined
31-03-2008, 19:37
I can't see him dying too easily, he's probably just mooching around the webways, treating them like a personal race track. Woe betide anyone who interferes with his racing line...