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][nquist0r
30-03-2008, 04:06
1 Doombull w/hellfire sword MON + heavy armor + shield.
3 Bray Shamons (level 2)
3 units of 4 Minotaurs w/ MON light armor + heavy weapons (champ/standard.)
3 Beastman Chariots
1 Chaos Chariot
2 Giants
2250 points

I have a few points left to tinker, and I was wondering if I can give my Bray Shamies the different types of chaos armor. They can use chaos armor, and the other armors say "chaos armor" in their descriptions. Is this a go?

Sarael
30-03-2008, 07:54
I'm pretty sure it is, but IIRC Chaos Armor is a specific difference in the rule about mundane vs magic items. IIRC, if a character has the option to wear ONLY Chaos Armor, then it can only wear magic armor which is also Chaos Armor. I don't own the beastmen book though, so I can't say for certain (and I think that's the only place that rule matters, but I don't own Hordes either).

Either way, they're better off in Chaos Armor than nothing, if it comes down to that. Try to get some DScrolls in there, and there's some other magic items I hear beastmen never should leave home w/o (some staff, can't remember name). Mark your chariots too if you can.

The "Chaos Chariot", I'm guessing that's a HoC Warrior chariot? If so, why not just another beastmen chariot?

Hawkmoon
30-03-2008, 08:33
Looks solid for the most part. I'm not a fan of the hellfire sword myself but to each their own.

My only suggestion is to drop the Chaos warrior chariot and add either a unit of furies or screamers to go warmachine hunting. Otherwise you'll be nashing your teeth in frustration as cannon/bolt throwers pick your army apart.
Hell, even archers could really give you a hard time if they concentrate on specific targerts.

And if you have 30 extra points somewhere, 5 chaos hounds for flanking are always useful.

][nquist0r
30-03-2008, 08:55
I usually run doggies for a screen. Things kinda happen fast with this army (combat by turn 2.) The giants are there to soak up the fire as well. Why dont you like the hellfire sword?

Diakos
01-04-2008, 13:30
Hellfire sword's godly for character killing, but 1+1d6 wounds might be a bit excessive for normal combat, I'd go for The Black Maul instead.
Also, sadly the only chaos armour usable by Brays is the one per army chaos-armour in the BoC book

Direwolf Beasts of Chaos FAQ v7.03

"Q. Can Great Bray-Shamans or Bray-Shamans wear magic armour?

A. Generally no, as characters without the option to wear mundane
armour may not wear magical armour, however there is one exception.
The magic item 'Chaos Armour' in the Beasts of Chaos book states
"May be given to a Bray-Shaman". Note that other suits of armour
from the Hordes of Chaos book do not so state, thus they may not
be taken by a Bray-Shaman"

][nquist0r
07-04-2008, 07:48
1 Doombull w/black maul MON + heavy armor + shield.
2 Bray Shamons (level 2)
1 chaos sorcerer (level 2)
2 units of 4 Minotaurs w/ MON light armor + heavy weapons (champ/standard.)
1 Doombull's unit of 3 Minotaurs w/ MON light armor + heavy weapons (champ/standard.)
3 Beastman Chariots
1 Chaos Chariot
2 Giants
2250 points

I just played 2 games with this list, and while I was very unlucky (Vs. Empire My giant charged a unit of knights in turn 2, rolled jump up and down, fell over and then broke/died... This exposed the flank of my Doombull's unit to said knights, who hit them, and broke them and ran them off the table...) My whole army collapsed after this rather... unfortunate event. In my other game Vs. High Elves I just rolled horribly and failed leadership tests/armor saves to beat the band.

What can I do? I have about 80 points to tinker with.

Hawkmoon
07-04-2008, 13:37
A couple of things I would do...

Against armies that aren't chariot heavy I'd change the Black Maul to the Chaos Runesword. It's 10 points more for one less strength, but one more weapon skill. This will bring you to WS 7. Which means, aside from Chaos and Vampire Lords you'll be on equal footing against other lord level characters; more importantly it doesn't cause the weilder to have frenzy.

I use to think frenzy was where it's but the more I play the game the more I realise that frenzy can be almost as much a disadvatage as it is beneficial.

Other than that I'll repeat what I said previously and highly recommend either furies or screamers for warmachine/lone character hunting and march blocking. They've been a great help for me in the past.

As for your bad luck, I feel your pain. I've had games like that too. Perhaps some new dice are in order. :)

With no static combat res to speak of you need to make sure you're flanking every time you charge something, otherwise it's all going to come down to dice rolls and you already know how fickle they can be.

The Red Scourge
07-04-2008, 15:01
A. Generally no, as characters without the option to wear mundane
armour may not wear magical armour, however there is one exception.
The magic item 'Chaos Armour' in the Beasts of Chaos book states
"May be given to a Bray-Shaman". Note that other suits of armour
from the Hordes of Chaos book do not so state, thus they may not
be taken by a Bray-Shaman"

Not entirely correct. Characters wearing chaos armor can cast spells without penalty, and as Bray Shamans aren't limited in their choice of magic items, they can freely choose magical armor. However there is only one "Chaos Armor" available per army but the armors in HoC are all chaos armor too ;)

The Red Scourge
07-04-2008, 15:03
So what are your tactics?

Which spells will your wizards have?

][nquist0r
07-04-2008, 18:00
I took lore of shadow with both Bray Shaman, and tried Lore of Beasts with the chaos sorcerer. In my first game I had Unseen Lurker with both shaman and the wolf hunts on the Chaos sorcerer in the chariot. I try to get across the table as fast as possible, and this definately helps do that. Unfortunately I took a chance having my giant try to cross a hedge to charge a group of elves and he fell... twice in a row! This taught me a little lesson, a +1 vs. shooting isnt worth it at all... I have 20 chaos hounds and I think they are going to make a comeback as a throw away screen at least.

SevenSins
07-04-2008, 19:01
Give one shaman the staff of darkoth, and get some dogs.
20 hounds divided into 4x5 should give you plenty of throw away screening, I'd say go. But keep the giants ditch the non-beast chariot :)

The Red Scourge
09-04-2008, 20:35
Give one shaman the staff of darkoth, and get some dogs.

The staff of Darkoth?? For what? The only units he can speed up with this are Beast Herds, Warhounds and Bestigors all of which is quite lacking in the list. But since you're going for the Unseen Lurker add in a few power stones, as 3 dice for casting an 11+ spell is probably a bit too optimistic ;)

Made a list myself based on similar premises. You can find it under Shadow Shaggoth :D

SevenSins
10-04-2008, 13:17
The staff of Darkoth?? For what? The only units he can speed up with this are Beast Herds, Warhounds and Bestigors all of which is quite lacking in the list. But since you're going for the Unseen Lurker add in a few power stones, as 3 dice for casting an 11+ spell is probably a bit too optimistic ;)

Made a list myself based on similar premises. You can find it under Shadow Shaggoth :D

Oooops my bad, thought it worked on minos too... :eek:

_Lucian_
10-04-2008, 13:21
The issue of Chaos Armour is highly debated. I personally say no to other types of 'magic' chaos armour bar the one in the BoC book. (My main tourny army is BoC so its something that affects me too)

Apart from that your army is a fairly standard minataur list but im shocked to seee no HOUNDS. seriously they are worth there weight in gold. get a few units

theunwantedbeing
10-04-2008, 13:28
Not entirely correct. Characters wearing chaos armor can cast spells without penalty, and as Bray Shamans aren't limited in their choice of magic items, they can freely choose magical armor. However there is only one "Chaos Armor" available per army – but the armors in HoC are all chaos armor too ;)

Oh for gods sake no!
They arent allowed magic armour, says so in their damned rules.
Just like doombulls only getting magic weapons.

The army seems okay though.

The Red Scourge
10-04-2008, 20:07
Oh for gods sake no!
They arent allowed magic armour, says so in their damned rules.
Just like doombulls only getting magic weapons.

Whoops! So you're saying you gotta read the whole entry?? Even the one saying "except magic armor"?? :wtf:

I humbly apologize for my shortcomings.

I've only recently started pondering about a beast army and coming from playing Mortal Tzeentch, you just expect to have access to every option :angel:

Belerophon709
11-04-2008, 09:02
Not entirely correct. Characters wearing chaos armor can cast spells without penalty, and as Bray Shamans aren't limited in their choice of magic items, they can freely choose magical armor. However there is only one "Chaos Armor" available per army but the armors in HoC are all chaos armor too ;)

Without turning this into a rules debate, I'm afraid you're wrong on this one.
The "magical" chaos armour from the BoC-book is just that - magical. This means it can be taken once. Because the other armours in the HoC-book are also chaos armours, it doesn't mean a bray shaman can wear them. The "magical" chaos armour has a specific rule attached to it that says a Bray Shaman may wear it.
The problem lies with the general assumption that "wizards can't cast spells while wearing armour". This is very, very wrong. Nowhere in the BRB does it state that. However, most wizards don't have the option of choosing mundane armours and as such can't choose magical armours either, which, most of the time, makes the first point a moot one.
However, Chaos Sorcerers are born with "non-magical" chaos armours and as such may choose from the magical armours presented to them as well.
Bray Shamans, on the other hand, are not born with any form of armour, nor are they given an option to buy any form of mundane armour, aside from the magical armour called "Chaos Armour", which has the specific rule to let one(1) Bray Shaman in the army wear it. This does in no way imply that the Shaman may also wear any of the other armour labelled as being chaos armour. This is merely wishful thinking and is not supported by the rules.