View Full Version : Dark Angels Successor: The Angels of Judgment - Fluff help needed

Atrum Angelus
30-03-2008, 09:03
I'm going to apologize in advance for the seeming Wall of Text.

I'm looking for the opinions and thoughts of the Fluff'ers here.
I've been trying to come up with a background for a Dark Angels successor I'm currently building, and I want to know what you guys think. Their creation is based on some of the rumors floating around the 13th founding that I've been able to find. Keep in mind, they could be completely wrong, if so, feel free to give me a bit of the background you know about the 13th founding.

Ok, here goes... sorry if this seems a bit clunky, I'm still working out the bugs...

Early in the 36 millenium, it is believed that the AdMech began playing with the idea of forming loyal Chapters from the Traitor Legion's gene-seed they had on record in their archives. Something happened, presumably it went wrong, and all records of this 13th Founding, the Dark Founding, were purged.

During the time that the AdMech were working on this "reverse-engineering" of the traitor legions, the Inner Circle of the Dark Angels learned of this work. They agreed to attempt to try something similar, by building a Chapter to hunt the Fallen built with Fallen gene-seed they had on record. The idea behind it was to have pseudo-Fallen hunting Fallen. This became the Angels of Judgment.

After the Chapter was created, however, whatever became of the other 13th Founding Chapters was purged from the records. The Dark Founding became "Ghost" Chapters, noone ever knowing they existed in the first place. This suited well to the Inner Circle, as they wanted their secret Chapter to remain so. <This feels very... clunky>

The Angels of Judgment did their tasks with expert efficiency, hunting their foe like no other Chapter. Their "Ravenwing", called the Arbiters, would hunt the Fallen, and when found would judge them for either immediate death, at the hands of the Reapers, the 1st Company of the Angels of Judgment, or deemed worthy of Repentance and brought back to the Rock to the Inner Circle. One such Marine did his duty well. Lord Enigma, a Marine who's gene-seed was based on that of Cypher himself, scoured the galaxy for evidence on the where-abouts of the master Fallen, even to the point of taking up the tactics and combat style of his prey; dual wielding pistols. In fact, many of the so-called sightings of Cypher are really Enigma searching for this adversary.

Over time, however, a small group of Fallen captured Repented for their sins as soon as they were captured, before they could be returned to the Rock and offered to aid the Angels of Judgment (AoJ) in hunting their brethren. The AoJ Master thought this was fitting, considering their origins and formed a squad called the Angels Ascendant, consisting of ex-Fallen who aid Lord Enigma.

The Inner Circle of the Unforgiven learned of this, and were none to pleased. They demanded that the AoJ turn over their Fallen to their fate on the Rock. The AoJ refused, stating their Fallen brethren were to be offered a chance to repent and rejoin the fold. Only if they refused, should their fate be sealed. This only angered the Inner Circle more, and they other successor Chapter-Masters demanded this be dealt with. The Grand Master at the time openly agreed and officially excommunicated the AoJ, however, after the meeting of the Inner Circle was done, he met with the Chapter-Master of the AoJ and told him that in exchange for not destroying the AoJ, they would forever be the private force of the Grand Master, doing the tasks of the Inner Circle's Inner Circle, tasks with secrets that even the other Unforgiven were not privy too. The AoJ Chapter Master agreed.

Presently, no record of the Angels of Judgment exists, either within the AdMech or other successors. Their existence is only known to two members of the Inner Circle, Grand Master Azreal, who the AoJ currently serve, and Ezekiel, Chief Librarian of the Dark Angels.

The Angels of Judgment are extremely loyal to the Grand Master of the Dark Angels, doing anything he asks of them, and to the Imperium, believing they are Repenting for unknown deeds of the past and those Fallen they have yet to find.

They have a slightly different structure then the standard Unforgiven Chapters.

1st Company - The Reapers (Their version of Deathwing), led by Thanatos, Master of the Reapers.
2nd Company - The Arbiters (Their version of Ravenwing), led by Malakai, Master of the Arbiters.
3rd Company - The Archangels (All Assault Marines are grouped in to this Company, considered an honour), led by Zephon, Master of the Archangels.
4th-6th Companies - The AoJ Battle Companies consisting of 7 Tactical Squads and 3 Devastator Squads each
7th-9th Companies - The AoJ Reserve Companies: 7th & 8th Companies consist of 10 Squads of Tactical Marines and the 9th is 10 Squads of Devastator Marines.
10th Company - The AoJ Scout Company

The standard armour colour of the Angels of Judgment is Black with Dark Gold/Brassy Trim, much like the Pre-Heresy Dark Angels, with a single down-ward pointing sword for their emblem (All my Marines have the shoulder pad of the sword from the Dark Angels upgrade kit) which symbolizes the Sword of Truth (a Heavenfall Blade), carried by the Chapter Master (Currently, Chapter Master Tyreal). Another key figure within the Angels of Judgment is Raziel, the Chief Librarian. The 1st, 2nd and 3rd Companies also have their own unique colour schemes.

Opinions? Thoughts? Flames?

Atrum Angelus
31-03-2008, 06:18
Noone has any comments?
I'd like peoples opinions, at so I know if this background if plausible.

31-03-2008, 07:06
There are a few problems with it.

First of all, the Dark Angels can't just decide to found a Chapter on their own. Foundings in practice need the facilities and know-how of the Adeptus Mechanicus to build up a Chapter's worth of gene-seed and equipment. Instead, the Dark Angels have previously petitioned the High Lords to create a Chapter, though this is apparently very rare indeed.

Secondly, there's little point in using Fallen gene-seed: it's just the same as Dark Angel gene-seed (though perhaps with less mutation than contemporary Dark Angel gene-seed).

Shadow Marine
31-03-2008, 07:31
I think the idea of using fallen gene seed is more of a symbolic gesture rather than havingany practcial benefit.
But I do agree with DantesInferno the facilities needed would be a little of the means of a Space Marine Chapter even one as old as the DA. But then again nothing is impossible, the DA are quite powerful when you take into account all their 2nd Founding chapters who really are lap dogs of the DA. Extending the influence of the DA over the galaxy.
So pooling the resources of these chapters it is not infessible that they could create a new chapter.
But creating a new chapter is a fast way of getting the Inquistion to come knocking at your door.

31-03-2008, 19:30
Just one small point, can we not refer to anyone on warseer as 'fluffers' :Dit means something completely different to what you intended and is a little sworded and smutty. :angel:
On another note I liked your background, it didn't feel that clunky. The other two posters are right it's difficult to form a chapter without the Admech's 'open' help but I don't think it would be impossible. Maybe a forge world Admech owed the DA some favours? Gold star for a good effort.:D

Atrum Angelus
01-04-2008, 02:30
As Shadow mentioned, I realize that there is no technical difference between the Gene-Seed of a Fallen and a Dark Angel. It was intended for of a symbolic gesture. Same could be said for the Gene-Seed of many of the Traitor Legions (Pre-Heresy, that is. I'm sure its full of mutations now). It technically wasn't the Gene-Seed that made them turn.

I do like the idea of the Forge World AdMech giving them a hand though...
And I do realize that the Inquisition would be out in force if they were to find out (I'm a big Inquisition fan, constantly reading their stuff), but since this is a Ghost Chapter done in the chaos of the Dark Founding, I'm hoping that will help keep the eyes off, as long as the Angels of Judgment isn't too show-y in their efforts.

Thanks for the imput.

... now I have to look up what "fluffer" means...

01-04-2008, 10:56
One thing that jumped out at me was, that the Supreme Grand Master made this deal with the AoJ, but all the other 2nd Founding Chapters would have still wanted them dealt with. I think you need to include something along the lines of the DA and the AoJ set up a fake confrontation between the two and that the DA pretended to blow the AoJ into tiny little bits. When the other 2nd Founding Chapters arrived they found the Rock in the middle of a debris field appearently all that was left of the AoJ.

Atrum Angelus
02-04-2008, 02:11
One thing that jumped out at me was, that the Supreme Grand Master made this deal with the AoJ, but all the other 2nd Founding Chapters would have still wanted them dealt with. I think you need to include something along the lines of the DA and the AoJ set up a fake confrontation between the two and that the DA pretended to blow the AoJ into tiny little bits. When the other 2nd Founding Chapters arrived they found the Rock in the middle of a debris field appearently all that was left of the AoJ.

Ooo... Good point. Gonna work that in now.

02-04-2008, 02:29
Hmm. Interesting. I agree about the other Successor Chapters wanting something done. But perhaps the clout of Azrael himself has quelled them... for now.

Your repentant Fallen have the same name as my Chapter. :D

02-04-2008, 12:10
I'm not a fluff nazi by any stretch of the imagination (my sig should prove that although my two most egregious chapters pre-date the existence of any Internet forums) but the idea of any chapter creation coming from anywhere but the High Lords of Terra really sets my teeth on edge. GW has been quite clear on this concept. The DA requested a chapter be established once and the HLoT fit this into their plans. And this is a retcon in the latest DA Codex. It used to be HLoT and no one else that had any input. While the AdMech is the actual tool of chapter creation and is obviously capable of do so, I'm of the firmest belief that they would not do so on their own. If the High Lords don't send out the call, it isn't happening.

The next thing that bothers me about your concept is the "nobody knows about them except two people" idea. These loner chapters would be renegades by default as no one knows about them. This is a very bad idea as you then have to jump through hoops to explain how they maintain supply. Their are certain things that they will have the ability to manufacture but larger items, fuel, and god only knows what else needs to be supplied by the Imperium. If no one else knows about them, requisitioning supplies will be problematic.

One last item that I've had pushed in my face. Without going into details, my first chapter was lost in space and before they found there way back they ran into a Fallen librarian who was one of the repentant types. You would not believe the number of people who pointed out how the DAs would never allow this individual to remain at large. Period. To say that you have a whole contingent of them that are not turned over...

All in all, some interesting ideas but some flaws that you might want to rethink. That said, it is your chapter and you can do waht you want. :)

04-04-2008, 04:20
Hello there.

I believe I already told you what I thought in the relatively minor discussions we've had on the subject, but obviously we didn't get into too much detail on it.

As a fundamental story, I think its really well put together, and I may be one of the only ones here who truly understand the time and effort you've put into bringing all the other details together. As a word to the rest, I'd like to say that I believe an important part of the story is the timing of the founding. In the chaos that was the dark founding, is it too hard to believe that there may have been a chapter that slipped through the cracks?

I mean, we all know about the beast that is the great grinding beaurocracy that is the imperium. Either way, the biggest sticking point for me, is in fact the supply issue. It would be difficult to say the least for one to requisition enough neccesities to keep a full chapter of space marines up and running without anybody knowing about it.

You already know my opinion on the fallen though. I've had my fair share of disputes at the store with a certain someone who shall remain un-named, (mostly because I forget his name) but I'm sure you know who I'm talking about, that have had to deal with the fallen.

I think it's important to note though, that you are in fact using the rules for cypher as enigma, and as such, are also bringing in the rules for using the fallen as well. It's a unique take on a good army, and you know that I support it 100%.