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paspinall
30-03-2008, 19:21
My frist vampire list, really not sure about it but there we go.

Vampire lord, Flayed hauberk, wrist bands of black gold, Helm of commandment; Master of the black arts, dark acolyte, Lord of the Dead.

Vampire, Avatar of Death, walking death, Skabskrath

Wight King, BSB, Drakenhof banner.

necromancer, all 3 necromantic spells, 2 dispel scrolls.

30 Zombies, musician and standard bearer.

30 Skeletons, full command, Standard of Hellish Vigor

30 Skeletons, spears, full command, Banner of the Endless Nightmare.

20 Ghouls, ghast.

10 Direwolves, Doom wolf

2 corpse carts, both with Loadstone

24 graveguard, full command, Banner of the barrows, Command.

10 Black Knights, full command, banner of the dead legion.

Varghulf.


Total: 2973 points


Problems, comments, suggestions?

paspinall
01-04-2008, 18:33
Anyone any comments?

Sarael
02-04-2008, 04:20
For a 3000 point list, this has no more killy than a 2k list. The only difference is that you start with big blocks of infantry, as opposed to having to raise them after turn1.

I'd find 150 points somewhere for a Dread Knight + Hatred vampire. You can start by dropping 2 spells from your necromancer (he'll only have one dice anyway) and shrinking down your core units to 25 or so. Drop a Black Knight to mount your Wight King and give him a lance.

paspinall
02-04-2008, 12:54
For a 3000 point list, this has no more killy than a 2k list. The only difference is that you start with big blocks of infantry, as opposed to having to raise them after turn1.

I'd find 150 points somewhere for a Dread Knight + Hatred vampire. You can start by dropping 2 spells from your necromancer (he'll only have one dice anyway) and shrinking down your core units to 25 or so. Drop a Black Knight to mount your Wight King and give him a lance.


I generally use large blocks of infantry in all my armies these are only 5 models larger than my Dwarf Warrior blocks for example. So losing the regen for say my Grave Guard and put my Wight in with the Black Knights.. can you take lance and BSB?

Baneon
02-04-2008, 16:00
Your trying to do a little of both magic and fighting with your general and not maxing either. I prefer to let my Lord by my magical might. So I run him as a Lvl 3 with Forbidden Lore, Master of the Black Arts and one of the 15 point IoN powers of your choice. For Magic Items I usually go with Skull Stuff and Crown of the Damned just for the times he does get hit. This will let him spam dice for the low casting spells that will let your army run like IoN, Vanhel's etc. Also you have the ability to take another Lore if you think you can take advantage of your opponents army choice, ala Dwarves and the lore of Metal.
This configuration change will allow you to run my favorite hero level character which is a Vampire with Haubrek and Sword of might, this will free up your Vampire Powers pool so you can take Walking Death and Supernatural Horror (if you must have terror) or something like Infinite Hatred or Beguile. You wont need Avatar as you have magic armor and a magic sword.
I usually use a Vampire BSB as he can still take Vampire Powers. Dread Knight will get him heavy armor and a barded war steed for increased survivability and he can still join foot sloggers. Then add Walking death for a nice +2 CR from banner and the power.
As vampires can be a bit pricey I'll run 2 Necros after those two gents and place them on corpse carts, buy them vanhel's and make one magic defense and give the other the book.

Personally I'd split the zombies and run two units of 20 getting the extra points from the Dire Wolves. Split the Skeletons and run 3 units of 20 each, I wouldn't use magic banners as it's just a point sink but your mileage may vary. As you then have 5 nice sized infantry blocks the ghouls become not as necessary and you can dump their points into getting another hitter up. Leave the GG at 20 models, I'd probably use the war banner on the knights instead of the double unit size one, and the Varghulf is a great addition it can tag with the Knights keeping them marching and helping out with a flank charge. With the extra points I might consider investing in a 6 or 7 man Cairn Wraith unit which will have your opponent sweating bullets.

Lord Dan
03-04-2008, 06:02
First off, you're 25 points under, and spending 130 or so points on a necromancer. I would ditch him and spend your well deserved 170 odd points on another vampire.

You vampire lord doesn't need the wristbands. If he's in a block unit, he'll almost never be getting shot (except for those once in a hundred cannonballs and hochland long rifles). Keep him with the wight king to benefit from regeneration. And give him a sword. I always feel I'm doing my general a disservice by sending him into battle with a "hand weapon".

Your black knights need the banner of barrows of the banner of strigos. Otherwise they're hitting on 4's, which for knights is certain death.

Unholy loadstones are crap, since they don't stack. Balefire is awesome, since they do stack. An additional wound per casting of IoN is not worth 25 points.

Break the dire wolves into 2 units of 5.

Break the ghouls into 2 units of 10. Give one of your vampires summon ghouls.

Your skeletons won't do much other than hold characters and take hits. Drop them both down to 15 each, since your vampire has lord of the dead anyway.
That's another vargulf right there.

athamas
03-04-2008, 06:36
your playing a 3K game...

you have the aility to take to vapire lords, one to raise, one to take the fight to the enemy..


why are you not doing this?

paspinall
03-04-2008, 15:25
your playing a 3K game...

you have the aility to take to vapire lords, one to raise, one to take the fight to the enemy..


why are you not doing this?

Points, they aint cheap.


First off, you're 25 points under, and spending 130 or so points on a necromancer. I would ditch him and spend your well deserved 170 odd points on another vampire.

You vampire lord doesn't need the wristbands. If he's in a block unit, he'll almost never be getting shot (except for those once in a hundred cannonballs and hochland long rifles). Keep him with the wight king to benefit from regeneration. And give him a sword. I always feel I'm doing my general a disservice by sending him into battle with a "hand weapon".

Your black knights need the banner of barrows of the banner of strigos. Otherwise they're hitting on 4's, which for knights is certain death.

Unholy loadstones are crap, since they don't stack. Balefire is awesome, since they do stack. An additional wound per casting of IoN is not worth 25 points.

Break the dire wolves into 2 units of 5.

Break the ghouls into 2 units of 10. Give one of your vampires summon ghouls.

Your skeletons won't do much other than hold characters and take hits. Drop them both down to 15 each, since your vampire has lord of the dead anyway.
That's another vargulf right there.
155 but ok LOL

He isnt in a unit because he shouldnt be IN combat, same reason he has no sword, with that helm he is making a whole unit a much higher WS, he provides magic support, and hopefully with the armour and ward save doesnt die !


I shall have to contemplate their banner.


My opponents generally dont take much in the way of magic anyway so would it be better to just lose the upgrade totally?

Direwolves ... ok I may try that...


Ghouls and Skeletons; *shudders* Sorry clearly just very used to having large units to start with LOL.


Your trying to do a little of both magic and fighting with your general and not maxing either. I prefer to let my Lord by my magical might. So I run him as a Lvl 3 with Forbidden Lore, Master of the Black Arts and one of the 15 point IoN powers of your choice. For Magic Items I usually go with Skull Stuff and Crown of the Damned just for the times he does get hit. This will let him spam dice for the low casting spells that will let your army run like IoN, Vanhel's etc. Also you have the ability to take another Lore if you think you can take advantage of your opponents army choice, ala Dwarves and the lore of Metal.
This configuration change will allow you to run my favorite hero level character which is a Vampire with Haubrek and Sword of might, this will free up your Vampire Powers pool so you can take Walking Death and Supernatural Horror (if you must have terror) or something like Infinite Hatred or Beguile. You wont need Avatar as you have magic armor and a magic sword.
I usually use a Vampire BSB as he can still take Vampire Powers. Dread Knight will get him heavy armor and a barded war steed for increased survivability and he can still join foot sloggers. Then add Walking death for a nice +2 CR from banner and the power.
As vampires can be a bit pricey I'll run 2 Necros after those two gents and place them on corpse carts, buy them vanhel's and make one magic defense and give the other the book.

Personally I'd split the zombies and run two units of 20 getting the extra points from the Dire Wolves. Split the Skeletons and run 3 units of 20 each, I wouldn't use magic banners as it's just a point sink but your mileage may vary. As you then have 5 nice sized infantry blocks the ghouls become not as necessary and you can dump their points into getting another hitter up. Leave the GG at 20 models, I'd probably use the war banner on the knights instead of the double unit size one, and the Varghulf is a great addition it can tag with the Knights keeping them marching and helping out with a flank charge. With the extra points I might consider investing in a 6 or 7 man Cairn Wraith unit which will have your opponent sweating bullets.

WOW a lot of input thanks,

2 things that are purely my personal preference and mostly from a "way I want my army to look" than anything else.

I really dont like putting a mounted character with footsloggers, yeah I know you can and its better armour but nah not for me thanks.

I really aint sure about putting Necro's on the corpse carts.



I guess from this I can see I relaly should try smaller units to begin with, not something i am usually fond of doing, well i cant wait until i get the models to playtest !

Lord Dan
03-04-2008, 16:14
Your general needs to be in a unit. Sure, he "shouldn't" be getting into combat, but he can handle his own. Not much is hurting him with T5 and WS7. If you're really worried about it, swap flayed hauberk for nightshroud so you'll always go first. But having him run around by himself is probably the worst thing you can do. All it takes it one warmachine.

Your dire wolves don't need to be in a block of 10. Their job isn't to charge head on, it's to flank and support your block units. They don't get a rank bonus, which means your spending 40 points for a back rank that does absolutely nothing.

You're spending hundreds of points to start out with big units. Frankly, there's no reason to anymore. Since invocation works on everything now, you don't need to worry as much. (Save grave guard, cav, and ethereal units, who can't ever be raised past their starting number.) You should have 3 casters doing invocation every turn, most of them on a 3+. That's one or two dice per cast. And since you can do it multiple times...

And unholy loadstone sucks. I don't care if you're not going against a magic heavy opponent, what's better: going up against little magic, or going up against almost no magic?

paspinall
03-04-2008, 17:33
Your general needs to be in a unit. Sure, he "shouldn't" be getting into combat, but he can handle his own. Not much is hurting him with T5 and WS7. If you're really worried about it, swap flayed hauberk for nightshroud so you'll always go first. But having him run around by himself is probably the worst thing you can do. All it takes it one warmachine.

Your dire wolves don't need to be in a block of 10. Their job isn't to charge head on, it's to flank and support your block units. They don't get a rank bonus, which means your spending 40 points for a back rank that does absolutely nothing.

You're spending hundreds of points to start out with big units. Frankly, there's no reason to anymore. Since invocation works on everything now, you don't need to worry as much. (Save grave guard, cav, and ethereal units, who can't ever be raised past their starting number.) You should have 3 casters doing invocation every turn, most of them on a 3+. That's one or two dice per cast. And since you can do it multiple times...

And unholy loadstone sucks. I don't care if you're not going against a magic heavy opponent, what's better: going up against little magic, or going up against almost no magic?

He shouldnt be in combat because his effectivness is lost if he is, the helm only works if he isnt so i dont want him in a unit because then the unit also is going to be trying to avoid combat.


Light Cav don't get ranks?!?!? Thought it was just skirmishers... really do need to read the rule book again, i havent played often enough, thanks !


And Yeah but is 50 points worth it when he usually takes a single mage ?

athamas
03-04-2008, 18:20
if your lord is not in a unit a smart player will target him with things like cannons and bolt throwers.

yeas the wrist bands give you a 3+ ward, but having a 3+ ward and a 2+ efective ward is a lot better...

a 3+ save is not that hard to fail!