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View Full Version : Yet another High Elf army... (2000pts)



TheDrugLordX
10-10-2005, 21:34
Hey! It's been a while since I've been to the fantasy forum parts (I've been busy with its counterpart, 40k:wtf: )

So, to get to the point. I'm thinking of retaking my old HE project. I've been throwing around some lists and here is, finally, the best one I've come up with (which I'm happy with). I want the list to consist of solid infantry (or alteast no hard-hitters. I've reconned that to fit the theme of my army I will alow to put in Chariots/Reavers.)

Anyways, please comment the list and give me some suggestions for improvements;)

Characters

Elf Prince @ 221pts
-Bow of the Seafarer, Armour of Stars, Pure of Heart, Great Weapon

Mage @ 170pts
-Channeler, Seer.

Mage @ 180pts
-Dispel Scroll, Ring of Fury

Core

10 Archers @ 120pts

10 Archers @ 120pts

18 Spearelves @ 216pts
-Standard, Musician'

18 Spearelves @ 216pts
-Standard, Musician

Special

18 Swordmasters @ 252pts
-Standard, Musician

Rare

18 White Lions @ 305pts
-Standard, Musician, Banner of Sorcery

2 Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 200pts

Total: 2000pts (nothing to spare^^)

Okay, some thoughts/flaws/things I want to add to the list:

1. The Prince is mainly there for looks and fluff (like the rest of the army:P), meaning he ain't tooled up like a no-brainer (ie, Armour of the Gods + Swordmaster Honour). The bow I figured could do serious damage if used corectly (hey, most opponents wont expect a bolt thrower heading through his precious knights from a unit of spearelves?!) Besides, he will often hit on 2+, he may move and fire and with the Curse of Arrow Attraction, the chances of he missing with this dreadful weapon is very low. Though, the bow is expensive, and thus I needed some cheap armour for him. Best I could find (and very characteristic) was the armour of stars. When he takes a wound from combat, he will teleport out of there, ready to fire his bow again!

2. Really wanted a Silver Wand on the Seer mage as there will be atleast 3 different spells from the Lore of High which I need to make this army work well. (Curse of Arrow Attraction, Fury of Khaine, Vauls Unmaking/Flames of Phenix). The points just wasn't enough.

3. I wanted a BSB with Battle Banner for Combat boost, though, this appeared to be out of question...

4. A made a Solid shooting phase to weaken enemy large infantry blocks, eliminate flanking forces and just win ground before engaging in CC. This will of course be supported with magic. Anyone think this will work?

5. Lack of Cavalry will make this army easy outmanouvered. I would really like a unit or two of reavers (+chariots) but the points were just to grim.

6. The Spearelves are in units of 18 for looks (6*3 formations), though, I want the Swordmasters/White Lions to be 20man strong with champions (and as magic protection is low. The Amulet of Purifying flame would work wonders on one of these units). Again, I needed to save points. Well, If you want it all you simply have to cut some things out :(

7. Finally, I really wanted some Phenix Guards as well, but that appeared to be for 2500pts+ only...!

Strakar
11-10-2005, 04:58
I know how it feels to want to make a competitive HE infantry list, but most of the infantry is too expensive for its actual value.

As a lot of people will say, elite infantry works best in units of like 10,12, or 15. Having big units of expensive white lions and swordmasters definitely weakens your army. Unless you're dead set on having both of them and losing a lot of games no matter how good you play, you should drop one unit and give the Banner of Sorcery to the other. I don't think it's necessarily bad to have units of 18, but you'll have to protect them from magic and/or shooting with items like Sacred Incense on an accompanying hero or Amulet of Purifying Flame on the champ.

You get about 250 points for doing that. Shooting superiority won't be achieved with archers. They are only effective against lightly armored T3 armies or fast cav. The only T3, low armor troops you'll face will be hordish (except other elves, and you can't outshoot woodies anyway), and your archers won't make that big of a dent in traditional hordes. I'd drop one unit.

With ~370 points, you can do a lot. Beef up your spearelves to 20 and make sure at least one of them can take a charge by making them stubborn, adding a warbanner, or something. Get that silver wand for one mage and add a dispel scroll to the other. I'm not sure how the prince will work, you'll just have to play and see. Two eagles are good in any list, and you need some sort of warmachine or mage hunters. A flanking unit of 5-6 reavers and a chariot or two would be vital to swinging combat res to your favor, since elf infantry won't win combats one-on-one against most troops.

Otherwise, your list is OK. Just remember the support units.

Eldacar
11-10-2005, 10:08
I've got to go soon, so I'll just be quick here.


Elf Prince @ 221pts
-Bow of the Seafarer, Armour of Stars, Pure of Heart, Great Weapon

This guy is very fragile. You'd get better effects out of the Shadow Armour + Seafarer Bow combination, or by giving him the Armour of Protection instead of the Armour of Stars and mounting him on an Eagle, so he can go careening around the board, protected by a 4+ Ward and sending those bolts through ranks of units. Arm him with Heavy Armour, Lance, and Shield, so he can charge to do some damage if he absolutely has to.


Mage @ 170pts
-Channeler, Seer.

Mage @ 180pts
-Dispel Scroll, Ring of Fury
Are they level 2? If not, upgrade them to it, but drop Channeler on the first one for another Dispel Scroll, to give yourself an adequate defence.


Core

10 Archers @ 120pts

10 Archers @ 120pts

18 Spearelves @ 216pts
-Standard, Musician'

18 Spearelves @ 216pts
-Standard, Musician
Here, you're breaking down a bit. I'd drop one of the Archer units in favour of a small 5-man units of Silver Helms for flanking purposes. Actually, drop both units and make that two groups of SH. Give them both a champion, then spend the other points upping the Spearelves to 20 each with Full Command.


Special

18 Swordmasters @ 252pts
-Standard, Musician

Where are your support units? Missile screens? Harassment? Drop these guys either right down to 12 with a Bladelord, or get rid of them altogether and invest in some Shadow Warriors for screening, or perhaps a Tiranoc Chariot or two.


Rare

18 White Lions @ 305pts
-Standard, Musician, Banner of Sorcery

2 Repeater Bolt Thrower @ 200pts
You need Eagles. Badly. Very, very badly. With the near-total lack of support in the rest of your list as it stands, here, dropping one of the two in favour of getting said oversized birds would be a good idea. I'm more in favour of losing the White Lions, since they serve no discernable purpose (they don't function as an MBU, and besides, you have the Spearelves to serve as MBU) than the RBT's, because by keeping the RBT's, you maintain some semblance of a shooting phase when coupled with the Prince with the Seafarer Bow.


1. The Prince is mainly there for looks and fluff (like the rest of the army:P), meaning he ain't tooled up like a no-brainer (ie, Armour of the Gods + Swordmaster Honour). The bow I figured could do serious damage if used corectly (hey, most opponents wont expect a bolt thrower heading through his precious knights from a unit of spearelves?!) Besides, he will often hit on 2+, he may move and fire and with the Curse of Arrow Attraction, the chances of he missing with this dreadful weapon is very low. Though, the bow is expensive, and thus I needed some cheap armour for him. Best I could find (and very characteristic) was the armour of stars. When he takes a wound from combat, he will teleport out of there, ready to fire his bow again!
Refer to what I said about the Prince earlier on.


2. Really wanted a Silver Wand on the Seer mage as there will be atleast 3 different spells from the Lore of High which I need to make this army work well. (Curse of Arrow Attraction, Fury of Khaine, Vauls Unmaking/Flames of Phenix). The points just wasn't enough.
You only have medium magic, so the Silver Wand isn't necessary.


3. I wanted a BSB with Battle Banner for Combat boost, though, this appeared to be out of question...
He'd be incredibly fragile and not worth it in an infantry list anyway.


4. A made a Solid shooting phase to weaken enemy large infantry blocks, eliminate flanking forces and just win ground before engaging in CC. This will of course be supported with magic. Anyone think this will work?
Not really. You only have medium magic, so a decent defence will stop the magic phase stone cold. The Archers only have S3 shooting, making them useful for taking out small, weakly armoured units, but not much more. And magic can be unreliable anyway, there is no guarantee that you'll get the spells you need off.


5. Lack of Cavalry will make this army easy outmanouvered. I would really like a unit or two of reavers (+chariots) but the points were just to grim.
If not reavers, then go with the small SH unit option. You need those units.


7. Finally, I really wanted some Phenix Guards as well, but that appeared to be for 2500pts+ only...!
Never take Phoenix Guard. Ever. The only credible option for taking them (that I can think of) would be against Undead to neutralise the Fear they cause, but other than that, no.

So in summary: I'd suggest you remove some of the infantry in favour of cavalry. You obviously want infantry to have a strong presence, however, so I'd advocate the "balanced" route, something that consists of both infantry and cavalry in equal amounts, which will be a much greater benefit to your army.

TheDrugLordX
11-10-2005, 14:43
Of course both of the mages are lvl 2:) Never would have used 2 otherwise...

Ragarding the mages: I'm consiedering dropping one of the Archer units for a plain lvl 2 mage. That would make my Offensive magic more effective as well as better defensive.

Nice thougths for the prince, I'll keep that in mind;)

I really don' want silver helms, but it seems that the list really needs Reavers then, huh? Sad as I wanted an army with as little cavalry as possible:( '

Thx for your posts. Please keep up the good work!

Eldacar
12-10-2005, 10:26
I really don' want silver helms, but it seems that the list really needs Reavers then, huh?
You need some type of high speed support unit to help you get flanks. That means either Reavers or lightly armoured Silver Helms.

Elf Infantry are useless for winning in protracted combats without a significant rank bonus advantage (which is why you take big units of them). Hence, you need things to crash into flanks and negate the other guy's rank bonus before he flanks you and you lose yours.

gortexgunnerson
12-10-2005, 15:49
I personally think that all foot high elves are a very good army but have to go Magic heavy to give there shooting/range attacks enough clout to take down armies before engaging. I personally never take princes as your not certain of being albe to use his leadership and therefore your paying for a good yet over priced bolt thrower. When I have fielded him with a bow of seafarer I give him Loremaster honor and second sign. As the extra dispel dice is very handy and second sign is a useful easy to cast spell. But I would prefer to see an arch mage with a book of hoeth as this is one of the nastiest magic users int he game and can both deal damage and protect your troops. Life is a good one for this with lots of offensive spells and lots of movement spells to prevent flanking moves or disjoint enemy lines.

I would definately drop the white lion as they are very expensive and use up a rare choice much better spent on 2 eagles for march blocking.

Also maybe swap a unit of archers for some shadow warriors as they are similar in cost yet shadow warriors are much more useful to you.

TheDrugLordX
12-10-2005, 16:51
DOH! Just how could I forget about Shadow warriors?! I will indeed swap one of the archer units for a unit of shadow warriors. (That will give me 6 Shadow Warriors + The precious silver wand which I want on my mage).

Loremaster Cloak seems nice to have on the prince, I'll consider that.

(And I don't think I'll use the extra die to cast second sign, instead I'll boost my other mages with the extra die.)

You guys are really useful;) compared to a lot of other forums where I usually "hang":p

Keep up the good work!

Lord Anathir
12-10-2005, 18:28
Listen.....after many months of giving and listening to high elf advice, i have come to the conclusion that an army list will only get you so far, and that most of the time it is up to the gameplay to see if ur list is 'good' or not. However, there is nothing wrong with a few obvious pointers. I believe that in an all infantry army it might be a good idea to get 3 or 4 bolt throwers and somewhere around 10 PD. You dont have much hard hitters...so you have to get ur VP from somewhere!!! I saw a very similar high elf army once. It had two units of 20 spears, a unit of 20 swords, 2 RBT, 2 Eagles, 2 units of 10 Archers, a Lvl 4, and 2 Lvl 2s. Surprisingly(as in, contrary to popular belief of tacticians) it did quite well, thus reinforcing my point that a list is only as good as you make it to be in a game.

Probably the best advice i can give you is try this list out maybe 3 times, see what works, see what doesnt (ie magic too weak, shooting too weak, spears not strong enough, too much elite infantry, etc). If you want to create the list first and then go and buy the models (in order to save money etc) you can use proxies or something along the lines.