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savage_&_proud_of_it
01-04-2008, 16:36
i am really struggling with putting together a 2000 point army for high elves, everything just wont fit in, i want a conpetetive list that should stand up to most armies, if anyone has any links etc then i would be very grateful, thankyou in advance

Machiavelli
01-04-2008, 16:47
What about 2250? That doesn't seem to be that much of a differenc but it is actually!
At 2250 points you can bring a lord on dragon can have DP and massive block of infantry like PG, couple of birds and chariots, 2 level 2 mages can dominate the magic phase. It's your choice!
If you want an special infantry based army, at 2000 points you can bring massive bloks of SM and PG. You want a hard hitting fast force there is enough space for Fast Cavalry, DP and silver helms.
MY general choice for an army that works well against most of xour foes at 2250 looks like this:
Lord on Dragon
2 DP with full command, magic r. of 2, ward save of 4+ with a BSB with d6 combat resolution flag
2 mages with scrolls
2 X 5 silver helms
a lion chariot
bolt thrower
archers
spearmen
and a massive block of PG with full command
that is
2249

Spyro35
01-04-2008, 17:40
I think you have to first figure out how you want to beat your opponent. Keep in mind, there is no such thing as an army that can beat all the other races. And if you try to do a bit of everything, then you'll be mediocre in everything, which may or may not do the job, depending on how good the opponent is and what the dice rollings are like.

My general advice is:
1) High Elves rock in magic - try to use that to your advantage
2) High Elves are not meant to slug shot for shot like HoC or VC Lord - in an attrition war, you are more likely to lose


Maybe that'll provide some guidelines?

savage_&_proud_of_it
01-04-2008, 17:53
i think i am going to go with a magic heavy army, perphaps 2 mages and use drain magic to my advantage, and in response to the other guy i would still like to do 2000pts as everyone who i will face would have 2000pts, just as a matter of interest is the size for tournement armies 2000pts, i have never been to a grand tourny so dont really know...

thankyou everyone for your help and keep the posts coming

Jow
01-04-2008, 18:02
I always like to start out by trying to fight my weaknesses. The weaknesses for most HE armies are enemy missile fire and tough cavalry units. To combat these, I always start off my list by taking some of the following:

-Great Eagles(Warmachine killers, march blocker, unit redirecter)
-Ellyrian Reavers(flank harassers, missile troop killers, march blockers)
-Shadow Warriors(missile troop/warmachine killers, march blockers)

After I feel I've sufficiently made up my list to counter my weaknesses, I go for my line troops. Most HE guys don't take enough core, and this is why they enevitably lose against more numerous armies in checkerboard formations. Just remember, if you have more units than your opponents, you can get flank and rear attacks that will win you combats just as effectively(or more) than if you had slugged it out head to head with an elite unit. So be sure to take enought of the following:

-Lothern Sea Guard(good multipurpose unit/flank anchor)
-Spearmen(solid and cheap line unit)
-Archers(rank reducer, counter missile fire)

Once you have that stuff taken care of, you can build the army to whatever stuyle you prefer. I prefer a more balanced list with tons of decently sized units, but others prefer a more elite based approach. It is entirely up to you in how you want to go from here though.

Spyro35
01-04-2008, 18:06
If you want to go magic heavy, I seem to recall seeing a few Teclis lists in the Fantasy Army Lists. Those are pretty good. I personally dont think you will need an Archmage on a dragon if you're going magic heavy. It just seems to be a waste since the moon dragon costs a lot.

General Advice:
1) High Elves are meant to have small, elite armies - You have to make tactical strikes, and control the flow of the battlefield aka eagles might help
2) For Magic heavy army, the silver wand and that staff that lets you choose spells (Can't rmb the name at the moment) is quite popular
3) RBTs are very popular as well - Its generally accepted the minimum to have is 2, and up to 4. Anything more would be a bit overkill.

savage_&_proud_of_it
01-04-2008, 18:40
thankyou for all the advice it is very helpfull, so far i think it will be led by teclis/archmage or prince and then either one or two mages depending on which lord i take and then a battle standard bearer.
then i will go with seagaurd as core (3-4 units, 15-20 strong) as i can afford to pay the extra points for the tactical flexibility.
then maybe some charriots and hard hitting elite infantry, and finally rare with two bolt throwers and a great eagle, any tips on this army, eg anything i could change, and what should i take as my special units

Spyro35
01-04-2008, 20:07
I think Jow's post is very thorough as to what line of thinking you should start with. However, I personally like the more elite list so in my opinion, 3 - 4 units of 15 - 20 strong LSG is quite expensive, especially in 2k. Just a quick calculation will show that (assume 3 units of 15) you're using a little bit over a quarter of your total points. This is also assuming you have no command units or shields for them as well. Teclis alone costs something along that line too.

Sure, up to know it sounds like you still have 1k pts to spend, which is quite a lot, but if you have any desires to throw in DPs and PGs, which I think are quite crucial, you might find yourself strained on it.

But in any case, try out the list and try to optimize it... post it and then we can talk more about it

P.S. I think LSGs are great, dont get me wrong. I plan on fielding a small group of them myself.

savage_&_proud_of_it
02-04-2008, 15:57
so what core would you suggest then, i am open to suggestions

the12thronin
02-04-2008, 16:03
If you are going to take Teclis or an Archmage with the book of Hoeth, you either need to go all out with magic or just use them and go with regular fighting nobles. The reason being is since they have a really good chance of getting IF on any given spell, your opponent can camp dice on the other guy and he'll never get a spell off. So unless you're going 3-4 mages, the single level 1 or 2 isn't going to do anything productive besides carry scrolls and give dispel dice.

Core depends on what you want. From a minimal stance, 2x 10 archers is the cheapest you can do. If you want a good solid block, 21 spears are a good start (7x3 ranks) with full command which gives you 22 attacks first when charged. IMO, Seaguard should be treated like archers who can fight with hand weapons/shield/LA. I wouldn't take them in a unit that is larger than you would take for a normal unit of archers. They are expensive and are still only T3 so a good breeze will knock them over.

savage_&_proud_of_it
02-04-2008, 16:36
ok then thanks alot for the replys, i dont know for my lord i do really like teclis but also like the freedom of making my own combos up for my own lords etc, so say i take an archmage with a book of hoeth what heroes do you guys suggest? i am going with a magic heavy army which can shut down the opponents magic phase with drain magic but also cast some pretty nifty spells of its own, but can handle itself in combat aswell (also shooting but not as much as combat) thank you again for all the replies

the12thronin
02-04-2008, 17:01
If you're going with the BoH archmage, the only reason to take him over Teclis is because you are banned from special characters for some reason. For not alot more points, Teclis is insanely useful over the archmage. Done right, 16+ power dice isn't that hard to do. The only Archmage I would consider over Teclis is a Gem of Twilight/Foliarth's Robe/Power stone riding a dragon but that's not much of a consideration I think.

Here's the thing about high elves. You have certain special units that effectively have a Noble as a unit champion and they can take magic items that improve their units. Yes they are tied to just that unit, but they are for most intents just as good and alot cheaper. You don't lose alot of ability going 4 mages and then having a couple dragon prince & Swordmaster units out there.

savage_&_proud_of_it
02-04-2008, 17:11
thankyou alot, i will have teclis then (the only reason i wasnt sure was because of the fact that i dont really like using special characters, si maybe some swordmasters as my elite fighting infantry and then a small unit of pheonix gaurd, as for core, 2 units of archers (10), two units of seagaurd (10) and a big unit of spearmen wnat do you think?
thanks again

Spyro35
02-04-2008, 17:23
I personally feel, if you are going with LSG, I would drop both units of archers, and replace them with 2 RBTs.

RBTs are your strongest ranged weapon with no chance of malfunctioning. It can also do whats called a volley fire. So instead of firing one bolt, you can fire 6 S4 attacks per RBT. Also, you will have a couple of extra points so you could buff up the LSGs or field a few more spearmens or something to that degree.

RBTs are also great for taking out large creatures. Due to the new upgrade of VCs, it could be helpful due to their Vargulf and Black Coach.

Just my thoughts

savage_&_proud_of_it
02-04-2008, 17:48
ok then because that will free up some space to have on my core (spend on spearmen and seagaurd), rare will be two bolt throwers and a great eagle, led by teclis, what other heroes though i cant deciede, also i need help with special, what will complement my chioces, thanks again i cant begin to express how useful all this has been

isidril93
02-04-2008, 18:10
use swordmasters they are extremly powerful

i have used them against dark elf crossbow men, corsairs, black orcs, bret knights, peasants, and countless gobbos and they have chewed up everything since they have enough attacks to take out hordes and have more skill than your opponents elites

Spyro35
02-04-2008, 19:13
in addition if you have the extra points, I would upgrade one of the swordmasters into a blade master. Give him/her the armor of caledor.

So the champion becomes:
3 attacks all resolved at Str 5
+2 armor save
ASF

Its kind've like another character, but for a lot cheaper =)
You can use him to challenge other champions... and if you're feeling lucky, maybe even another actual character lol

savage_&_proud_of_it
02-04-2008, 20:24
i like the sound of that (a lot). so for my other special choices i am thinking a small unit of pheonix gaurd(10-15) and then maybe some fast moving stuff like a charriot or some cavalry, i will write a list tommorow and try and get it posted, thanks again