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T10
11-10-2005, 11:45
Ok, so what's the big deal with the Dwarf Gyrocopter?

It flies, it has a Toughness of 5 and an almost reasonable breath attack. In short, it is a pretty mobile flying chariot with no close combat potential.

But it costs 140 points!

What gives?

-T10

DarkstarSabre
11-10-2005, 11:50
I'd say it costs so much for the simple fact it flies.

It moves fast.

In an army where everything has a Move rate of 3" something that moves as fast as a flier will cost significantly more due to its sheer value tacticswise.

Zeb
11-10-2005, 12:18
I had a freind that usually charged this one into combat with his other units, having it runn down the opposition with it's high movment...

But since it helps Dwarfs with something that they usually don't have "Speed" I guess it's a couple of extra points.
But also consider the Organ Gun that is overpriced according to a lot of Dwarf players out there, and it could be that they had some problems with the warmachines in the Dwarf book...

McMullet
11-10-2005, 13:07
The Dwarfs have nothing else that can block marching or hunt warmachines, or generally be fast. If the Gyrocopter wasn't expensive, it would be too much of a no brainer.

T10
11-10-2005, 13:08
(...) its sheer value tacticswise.

But it still has to achieve something.

It is very expensive for something that is essentially a support unit, and it can't really make up for its points on it's own.

It's weapons are most effective agains large, weak units such as Goblins or Skaven, or when running down fleeing units.

Against units that *should* be vulnerable such as lone mages or warmachines his single attack and unit strength of 1 makes it hard to win combat, even if he has a toughness of 5.

To sum up my thoughts on the gyrocopter: "Whine, whine, whine!"

-T10

Avian
11-10-2005, 20:07
There is a reason it will receive an upgrade for (apparently) no cost increase when the new version of the army book arrives.

Freak Ona Leash
11-10-2005, 20:13
There is a reason it will receive an upgrade for (apparently) no cost increase when the new version of the army book arrives.
Im hoping for the return of bombs personally. Now that would be interesting

der_lex
11-10-2005, 23:02
Starbane usually takes one, to great effect...

especially in our current Lustria campaign, where the thing is Skink-hunter number one...

And never underestimate the damage potential of the crashing Gyrocopter...

Hywel
11-10-2005, 23:37
As others have said, you're not paying for its point-for-point killing power. You're paying for its ability to march block and so on... worth far more than killing models in some situations.

Just like 5 huntsmen cost the empire 50pts, they won't kill that much stuff, but you're paying a premium for scouting in an army that is often very keen to block your marching.

Sure its less of a dent in the army than 140pts, but same principle.

Wintersdark
11-10-2005, 23:45
But it still has to achieve something.

It is very expensive for something that is essentially a support unit, and it can't really make up for its points on it's own.*shiver* God, I hate that rediculous "make up it's points" arguement, it's *AWFUL*.

It DOES accomplish something. It provides an effective march blocker, and it does do that extremely well. If you're playing a static defense dwarf army with a solid range potential, if the Gyrocopter can get you an extra turn or two of shooting, it's done it's job right there.

It's still somewhat overpriced, but not terribly so.


Against units that *should* be vulnerable such as lone mages or warmachines his single attack and unit strength of 1 makes it hard to win combat, even if he has a toughness of 5.
It's not a combat unit. It shouldn't have any combat ability to speak of.

Not everything is designed to be a killing machine.

That said, it's a useful addition to your army, to force people to hold when you're declaring a charge. People will often flee, certain they can get out of the dwarf troopers (short) charge range, in order to disrupt the dwarf battle line. Or, simply because it's a fight your opponent knows he can't win (harder dwarf units w/ characters, for example). A nearby Gyrocopter also charging forces him to hold or to simply lose the unit to the gyrocopter as there it's impossible for him to get out of the 'copters charge range.

Thus, it's useful before you're armies clash, in giving you extra shooting time and disrupting your opponents march(maybe scoring a few wounds too); then it's useful once you do clash to control your opponents reactions.

It IS a bit overpriced, so an upgrade would be nice, but I certainly hope they don't give it any more close combat ability. It's a scout machine.

A better breath weapon, or bombs again, would be great.

Ivan Stupidor
12-10-2005, 00:07
A better breath weapon, or bombs again, would be great.

I mean, it only has bombs on the model...

My Gyrocopter would probably be more effective if I could only figure out that you set up more than 20" apart. (Every time I use it: "I'll fly behind that unit... uh... looks like I'm in front of the Chosen Warriors... I'll just roll the crash dice now.")

T10
12-10-2005, 13:35
*shiver* God, I hate that rediculous "make up it's points" arguement, it's *AWFUL*.


Hey, it's only natural to gauge the efficiency of a model by in terms of points.

Of course, it's silly to assume that every single model should be able to kill it's points value and then inexplicably die. I appreciate the effect it might have on slowing down the enemy advance, but really, at 140 points it's simply too expensive.

I can't see it taking much effor to blast it out of the sky with a bit of magic, or simply rush it with skirmishers. If it's supposed to slow down more than one unit, then it's maneuvering options will be pretty limited.

A bit of effort in taking it down will reap great dividends for the enemy. A cannon can take it down with one shot and earn easy 140 VPs.

All in all, the Gyro Copter strikes me more as a liability than an asset.

-T10

Tormentor of Slaanesh
12-10-2005, 20:53
if it had bombs/could crash deliberalty/didn't crash at all then it would be good.
Now all it needs it 3 or more skirmishers to charge it and its dead.

static grass
12-10-2005, 22:21
I don't find the gyrocopter to be an effective march blocker. If your opponent has skirmishers then you can not place it within their charge range as they will always win combat. The only time it is effective is against all infantry armies then it is very good but then most armies have a unit or two of cav so it is kind of moot.

The copter's march blocking is a passive tactic, it is not the same as the organ gun's blasting units sky high which is definately an active tactic. This is fine, using a passive tactic can help win you the game but only because you did something else too and this make the copter a dodgy choice for it's points.

Nevertheless I think in principle the copter should be expensive so as to compromise your options for the rest of the army but the points penalty should not stop it from doing something directly destructive too.

I want my stealth copters back :) joke.

Wintersdark
12-10-2005, 22:26
Could crash deliberately is a little unreasonable, really.

leeoaks
12-10-2005, 23:00
i use mine to keep units fleeing when they dont rally! also good against frenzied knights! another 2 rounds of shooting.....yes please! and a strength 3 wep is very effective against elves and humans or skellies!

Boomstar
15-10-2005, 03:13
I use my gyro to try and hunt fast skirmishers, and rock\bolt thrower crews (which my dwarfs hate, no armors saves?noes!).Or for harrasing fast cav.I've considered getting another for fighting war machine heavy army's.

So yeah expensive but very valuable to have around.

amagi
15-10-2005, 03:52
Gyrocopters served me amazingly well. I found one Gyrocopter to be an extremely effective march blocker and its flame template attack was surprisingly effective, quite often panicking small units (even skirmishers) and doing a respectable amount of damage to massed weak infantry. The march blocking alone was often a game winner simply because of the extra shooting opportunities it got me.

Incidentally I'm 99% certain the new Gyrocopter is Unit Strength 3, has 2 attacks in combat, and can flee from a charge and then automatically rally. Don't know the rest of it though.

asparagus
15-10-2005, 12:53
Here you can find some information with respect to the new rules for the gyrocopter
http://www.warseer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13940

Gorog Irongut
17-10-2005, 18:22
I agree that gyros can be amazingly useful. In fact they take up my rare slots at the 2000 pt. level. They're so hard to kill and turn into the amazingly annoying/mosquito unit. Bringing two also increases the marchblocking abilities. I also find that they are quite capable of magehunting.

In fact, now that I think about it, I've only ever lost one gyro during a game. And that was to a banshee who rolled 11 on her scream. Ain't nothing you can do about that.

mad dog
17-10-2005, 19:52
I agree with Gorog - 2 gyrocopters are a very useful thing in most circumstances. They are vulnerable to banshees, skirmishers and cannons, but are excellent at preventing enemy march moves, running down fleeing units - especially when you charge them into combat with a unit of iron breakers or similar. It stops that annoying flee charge reaction and gives you the chance of catching the enemy when you break them. Lowly armoured T3 troops just melt away when you slap 2 templates per turn onto a unit.

OK 140 pts is expensive but they give you the opportunity to mess with the enemy in a way that no other dwarf unit can.

I never leave the hold without them.

Tormentor of Slaanesh
17-10-2005, 20:42
omg, those rules are droolable!!!!
the gyrocopter will be like fast cavalry.
I still think it should have bombs.

Gazak Blacktoof
17-10-2005, 20:49
The bombs were cool but extemely unreliable, you could easily end up with one under your 'copter or just missing the target entirely. When gyro's had bombs they also couldn't use their steam gun if they flew more than 12" (half a regular fly move).

Making the 'copter more mobile as rumoured will actualy make it more useful in a way bombs wouldn't. Bombs would just be for nostalgia really, a good thing when creating dwarf units, but would ultimately be unlikely to sway the opinions of people that currently don't like the gyrocopter.

Darko86
17-10-2005, 22:32
Plus it's just the coolest thing since... anything!