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Blood Pacter
03-04-2008, 22:02
of the original 20 chapters of space marines two are unknown #2 and #11 anyone have any ideas or anything on what might have happened or who they might be

marv335
03-04-2008, 22:06
no-one knows anything.
they have never been named, and I seriously doubt if they ever will be.
search for this subject in the background forum. There are several long threads on the subject.

Skirnak
03-04-2008, 22:11
In The Lightning Tower (official Horus Heresy novelette) it says that separate tragedies befell the 2nd and 11th legions, from the context it's obvious that this happened quite a while before the Heresy.

I'm not aware of any published information on the identities of the legions themselves, or their primarchs.

battle captain corpus
03-04-2008, 22:19
Iron Hearts..Rubineck...enough said... ;)
Thats for the vets out there...
Other than that, its all pure conjecture, the 2 deleted legions will never be named. Full stop.

Blood Pacter
03-04-2008, 22:24
thanks
i have heard about Rubinek though but knew nothing more about him

Grimtuff
03-04-2008, 22:34
thanks
i have heard about Rubinek though but knew nothing more about him

And you never will. He appears to be a victim of unhappy naming coincidence on the part of the author. As the author was probably unaware of what "Primarch" meant in the grand scheme of things and maybe thought it was another SM rank.

I like to think he meant "Chapter Master" or something. ;)

philipdgilbert
03-04-2008, 22:44
True that to Grimtuff, the guy got confused about chapter master and primarch, and later retracted his comments.

There is a rumour on wikipedia that Sigmar from Fantasy may be a lost primarch, but there is no evidence for it other than Sigmar is really hard.

GW have come out and said that they will never name the missing legions because they enable people to make up their own chapters and put them in the slots in their place, sort of a ready made back story. However, as to what happened to them, there is a quote in one of the HH novels when an imperial army commander shouts something like 'You haven't heard the last of this, it won't be the first time a legion is punished!' my local GW take this as the emperor got narked and fired a legion, thus accounting for one of them.

Blood Pacter
03-04-2008, 23:44
Grimtuff- thats good to know
phillipdgilbert- interesting im on #6 in the HH books they are very good and informational

ssgtdude
04-04-2008, 01:17
Actually one of the two unnamed chapters was the Rainbow Warriors. (It isn't a wonder why this chapter was expunged.). The chapter colors was a ultramarine blue with a rainbow over the face of the helmet. A rather odd looking chapter.

I do not recall the name of the other one from back in the rogue trader days. If anyone still has the Marine squad box the picture on the side panel named all twenty.

Norsehawk
04-04-2008, 01:56
Actually one of the two unnamed chapters was the Rainbow Warriors. (It isn't a wonder why this chapter was expunged.). The chapter colors was a ultramarine blue with a rainbow over the face of the helmet. A rather odd looking chapter.

I do not recall the name of the other one from back in the rogue trader days. If anyone still has the Marine squad box the picture on the side panel named all twenty.

I'm not familiar with the idea of the Rainbow Warriors being a legion, and if you think they have been expunged, you might want to take a look at this link: link (http://uk.games-workshop.com/spacemarines/chapter-gallery/4/) particularly the bottom row.

The reason that there are 2 missing legions is a homage to the missing 2 Roman Legions from what I understand.

505
04-04-2008, 02:39
I was always curios....what is so bad that you have to be expunged from all knowledge. I mean 9 legions turned their back on the Emporer and they are still in there. something must have been bad

jackveneno
04-04-2008, 02:56
i thought they were purposely left this way so that people can use some imagination and "make" their own chapter with fluff...

starlight
04-04-2008, 03:16
*sigh* :(

We need a Sticky for this...

a) The two *missing* Legions (*Legions*!, not Chapters :p ) will never be named, according to GW...but then Harlequins used to drive Land Laiders, so who knows...?
b) The Rainbow Warriors are *not* either of the two missing Legions. They are based on a tribe of warriors in the South Pacific.
c) They missing Legions are based on the missing Roman Legions, of which there were more than two.
d) The missing Legions are a specific plot device to add mystery and options for gamers.
e) The nine *Traitor* Legions are still on the books because members of them are still *alive* (not literally in some cases) and as such they will remain on the books until the last member is killed and all knowledge of them can be erased. This is according to several references to Imperial Procedure in various books since at least 2nd Ed.
f) The missing Legions either did something *far* worse, or the nine Traitor Legions *would* have been erased if the Big E had survived to do it, rather than being interred on the Golden Throne.

Imperialis_Dominatus
04-04-2008, 03:34
You're quite right, starlight. Needs a sticky.

I've always entertained the notion that one of the Lost Primarchs might have been sent on a mission so secret and important it required their records to be deleted. And of course one of them was Sigmar... but then again which one of them, then, was fema- urk! *yanked into a van by ninjas before he could finish the sentence*

Koryphaus
04-04-2008, 05:17
Lol, gotta love those Ordo Hereticus Ninjas... :D

In the current SM dex, in the chapter registry page you can almost make out the names of the two legions. One of them has a two word name, the other others name is singular.

I was reading the 1st ed book ages ago and it mentions the missing legions, IIRC something about Flesheaters and Rainbow Warriors is mentioned. I dont take this as gospel of course, because GW changes the fluff all the time (eg, they hinted that Sigmar was a primarch and then came out and said that he definately isnt).

I quite like the fact that there are a couple of mystery Legions... Just adds new levels of intrigue and wonderment (ie, who are they, what happened, are there any left). I would hate it in fact, were GW ever to publicise their names or deeds.

chaoshopeful
04-04-2008, 07:15
C:CSM

All 20 primarchs were found. All 20 lead there legions on the great crusade

Imperialis_Dominatus
04-04-2008, 07:27
And that's about all we know. :)

Screw GW, Sigmar's a Primarch, dammit. :evilgrin:

Tommygun
04-04-2008, 08:11
I personally think they may have left them out, so that later they could have the option of creating two new chapters with codexs. But found that they were too busy trying to keep up with the codexs they had already.

Mechanicus
04-04-2008, 08:20
I point you all once again to here (http://forum.blpublishing.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=177). It contains every clue there is about the missing legions, and lots of circumstantial information as well.

philipdgilbert
04-04-2008, 13:35
I point you all once again to here (http://forum.blpublishing.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=177). It contains every clue there is about the missing legions, and lots of circumstantial information as well.

Nice post!

We do need a sticky, theres stuff on this thread thats been repeated...on this thread. We need someone to write the definitive as we know it now version and sticky it. And then we can work on other subjects, like cypher and eventually we will have all the information required for a definitive history textbook, with no redundancies or errors, a solid foundation from which to step into the 21st century!

whoa, head rush.... I'm going to go and lie down...