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imperial90
04-04-2008, 04:46
forgive me if this may be obvious, but i was wondering, in the rule book it says if a character has a two hand weapon and a shield, the shield gets slung across the back. So i was wondering does this mean that they dont get the extra armor the shield provides? Cause the rule book is a little ambiguous on the matter just saying the shield gets strapped to the back or dropped to the ground

thanks for your help

Avaron
04-04-2008, 05:38
not 100% on this but I belive you get to choose between useing the sheild and hand weapon to get the armor bonus. or useing the two hander for the strenght mod.

Grimgormx
04-04-2008, 06:02
You can use the shiel while your miniature is being shot so you get the +1 armour, but once you get in HTH you have to chose if your miniature uses his HW and the shiel (for an extra +1 armour bonus) or if you choose the 2 HW you should drop the shiel loosing the +1 armour bonus.

An example, I usually use a unit of black orcs, they always carry 2 chopas,and a big chopa (2hw), heavy armous (AS 5) and I always equip them with a shield (they get AS 4)

When they get to combat I have to choose how they fight, if they use 1 chopa and the shield they will save with 3+, if I use 2 chopas or the 2HW they will save with 5+

Putty
04-04-2008, 06:15
how about rank & file guys?

lets say chaos warriors can be fitted with 2nd hand weapon and shields.

can they use shield vs shooting and then when going into charge, choose between 2nd weapon or shield?

i always thought that you can only bring 1 set of weapons and even if you could, you cannot change them once you decide which you want to use for the whole battle / game.

Nurgling Chieftain
04-04-2008, 06:22
how about rank & file guys?There's no difference.


lets say chaos warriors can be fitted with 2nd hand weapon and shields.

can they use shield vs shooting and then when going into charge, choose between 2nd weapon or shield?Absolutely.


i always thought that you can only bring 1 set of weapons and even if you could, you cannot change them once you decide which you want to use for the whole battle / game.Not at all. The only time you're stuck with what you've chosen is during a given close combat.

havoc626
04-04-2008, 06:24
It is only for that combat that you cannot change weapons.
e.g Squad with HW, shields and Greatweapons get charged, you must choose one of the weapons, and once you have, you cannot change to the other weapon until you have "finished" that combat. ie, one side either breaks or is destroyed. (Very interesting if this makes sense to anyone)

Putty
04-04-2008, 06:36
ok. this is very useful information.

somebody from this forum once said once weapons are chosen, you can't change them for the rest of the battle.

i thought that was rather crazy but my friends and i didn't use this rule.

we felt that the ability to chose what you wish to use before combat (charging) and when you get shot at made more sense.

thanks for the clarification!

Belerophon709
04-04-2008, 06:52
You don't have to choose which weapon(s) or weapon combination you use until you actually get stuck into the fighting, i.e. at the beginning of the CC phase. Once you've chosen your weapons you are stuck with them for the remainder of the entire CC though (following turns as well), as long as you are stuck in that same combat.

Example: You charge a unit of empire what-nots with your black orcs, and your charge is completed, landing them in close combat. Come CC phase, you choose to use GWs, giving you S6 and 5+ AS (example). Let's say you win the combat and the empire what-nots break and run, you pursue and run them down. Now, next turn (empire player's turn), your black orcs are sitting in front of a unit of flaggelants with flails and he decides to charge your black orcs. The flaggelants get +2S (for a total of 5) in the first round of combat, meaning that if you use GWs in this combat again, you won't have any armour save for as long as the flaggys have the S-bonus (the first round). If you use HW+Shield however and he charges you in the front (assuming you opt to hold as a charge reaction), you'll have a 3+AS (now modified to 5+ from the flail S-bonus), and in subsequent rounds of the combat, he'll lose the S-bonus, leaving your black orcs with a healthy 3+AS again.

imperial90
04-04-2008, 11:41
thx for clearing it up for me

Urgat
04-04-2008, 11:55
An example, I usually use a unit of black orcs, they always carry 2 chopas,and a big chopa (2hw), heavy armous (AS 5) and I always equip them with a shield (they get AS 4)

They even get AS3 in melee, provided they're fighting someone in front of them (as opposed to flank or rear), since choppas count as regular hand weapons in all respects now (which is good)

Tarax
05-04-2008, 10:51
For future reference use:

Great Weapon - for one weapon which is wielded by 2 hands

Additional Hand Weapon - for one weapon in each hand, ie 2 weapons

Otherwise you get 2 Hand weapons and 2 handed-weapon.

Thanks.

505
05-04-2008, 15:58
some unites replace items with other items so they cant carry three or four weapons (bret peasents can't have spears and halbreads), some units get items in addition (orcs can get more then one weapon) however it gets expensive the most I suggest is a seild and something else so you get more boyz.

but remember ALL units have a hand weapon no matter what else they have (just some are foolish to use them HE swordmasters anyone :D)

you can switch what weapon you use anytime outside of combat. once you are charged or charge you need to use that weapon till someone breaks or dies

Porksta
05-04-2008, 22:00
Unless you are a Black Orc, then you can change weapons as you please.

WLBjork
05-04-2008, 23:26
forgive me if this may be obvious, but i was wondering, in the rule book it says if a character has a two hand weapon and a shield, the shield gets slung across the back. So i was wondering does this mean that they dont get the extra armor the shield provides? Cause the rule book is a little ambiguous on the matter just saying the shield gets strapped to the back or dropped to the ground

thanks for your help

If you read page 29/30, you only need to carry the shield to gain the +1 AS it provides.

Nurgling Chieftain
06-04-2008, 00:53
If you read page 29/30, you only need to carry the shield to gain the +1 AS it provides.

So are you saying that a model fighting with two hand weapons or a great weapon can still get +1AS for carrying a shield?

Crazy Harborc
06-04-2008, 01:44
A model/unit fighting in HtH does not get a AS for a shield. A minie/unit with shields can use the shield(s) when being shot at. I don't have my rulebook handy BUT the facts are in the rulebook.;)

Urgat
06-04-2008, 08:40
Unless you are a Black Orc, then you can change weapons as you please.


No, they have to choose like everybody else, they just don't have to buy the weapons, they come with all of them already, excepted the shield.


A model/unit fighting in HtH does not get a AS for a shield if using great weapons or two hand weapons. A minie/unit with shields can use the shield(s) when being shot at. I don't have my rulebook handy BUT the facts are in the rulebook.;)

Let me correct that for you, otherwise, who knows what crazyness will people believe ;)

WLBjork
06-04-2008, 09:15
So are you saying that a model fighting with two hand weapons or a great weapon can still get +1AS for carrying a shield?

Not what I say, it's what the rules say.

One of my favourite examples of silly RAW.

Porksta
06-04-2008, 16:10
No, they have to choose like everybody else, they just don't have to buy the weapons, they come with all of them already, excepted the shield.



No, they can switch in combat.

Urgat
06-04-2008, 16:38
No they can't.
P20 of the armybook: "at the start of each combat, a unit of black orcs [etc] can choose to fight either with [etc].
It's pretty clear: you choose at the begining of each combat, you don't get to choose whenever you want.

brambleten
06-04-2008, 16:51
A model/unit fighting in HtH does not get a AS for a shield if using great weapons or two hand weapons.

Let me correct that for you, otherwise, who knows what crazyness will people believe ;)

well, they could be mutated by tzeentch and have 3 arms...

Urgat
06-04-2008, 17:05
well, they could be mutated by tzeentch and have 3 arms...

Actually, the way it was written, it sounded like you could never use shields in melee :p

Porksta
06-04-2008, 17:10
Right, at the start of each combat. Every turn a new combat starts.

Urgat
06-04-2008, 17:58
Right. I'll let someone else deal with that.

SuperBeast
06-04-2008, 19:14
Gladly!
You declare what weapons you are using at the start of the combat phase following the charge.

Until the combat is over (i.e. destroyed or broken) both sides continue to use the same equipment.
A combat begins with contact, and ends with a victor.
It doesn't matter the number of phases it lasts.

Reread the weapon rules.

"I say, Jurgen? These darned orcs are proving somewhat resilient to whittling our hand weapons! Might we not use spears instead? Thin their devilishly high numbers?"
"I concur, Brandt! I say, you? Yes, you - orcy boss-type? Couldst mine regiment perchance have a slight interlude henceforth to redress the imbalance twixt our forces with a swift change of sidearms?"
"GRAAAAARGHHHH!"
"Sir, I appear to have a choppa in me ribcage, sir!"

daemonkin
08-04-2008, 09:35
"I say, Jurgen? These darned orcs are proving somewhat resilient to whittling our hand weapons! Might we not use spears instead? Thin their devilishly high numbers?"
"I concur, Brandt! I say, you? Yes, you - orcy boss-type? Couldst mine regiment perchance have a slight interlude henceforth to redress the imbalance twixt our forces with a swift change of sidearms?"
"GRAAAAARGHHHH!"
"Sir, I appear to have a choppa in me ribcage, sir!"

Q.F.T.!

Made me giggle.

D.

anarnii
09-04-2008, 22:53
Gladly!

"I say, Jurgen? These darned orcs are proving somewhat resilient to whittling our hand weapons! Might we not use spears instead? Thin their devilishly high numbers?"
"I concur, Brandt! I say, you? Yes, you - orcy boss-type? Couldst mine regiment perchance have a slight interlude henceforth to redress the imbalance twixt our forces with a swift change of sidearms?"
"GRAAAAARGHHHH!"
"Sir, I appear to have a choppa in me ribcage, sir!"

that alone has made warseer worth its creation

Luisjoey
10-04-2008, 05:30
Great Weapon and Shield donīt work together in battle...

Use the shield when you are walking around to get the +1 to armor but when in melee you have to declare you are using the great weapon and dont benefit from the shield in HTH combat.