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][nquist0r
04-04-2008, 07:54
So, it says on pg 89 (BRB) in fig 89.2 that as long as a unit is struck in the front and is only 1 rank deep the most the cannon can hit is one. The cannon's line also clearly shows that it came in contact with 3 models (as the units facing was slightly turned.) Is this the proper description of cannon hits on a 1 rank unit? I run a doombull list so this is kinda important to me as one of my friends doesnt think this is how it is. ( He argues all 3 are hit.)

WLBjork
04-04-2008, 08:12
Depends on where exactly the cannonball hits.

For a front/rear shot, cannonballs hit a maximum of 1 model per rank.

For a flank shot, a cannonball can hit a maximum of 1 model per file.

This is regardless of how many models' bases are touched by the bounce of the cannonball.

][nquist0r
04-04-2008, 08:18
Yeah I saw that in the flank the unit counts as ranks... O.K I guess I'l have to point it out next time we play.

T10
04-04-2008, 08:29
[nquist0r;2495692']So, it says on pg 89 (BRB) in fig 89.2 that as long as a unit is struck in the front and is only 1 rank deep the most the cannon can hit is one. The cannon's line also clearly shows that it came in contact with 3 models (as the units facing was slightly turned.) Is this the proper description of cannon hits on a 1 rank unit? I run a doombull list so this is kinda important to me as one of my friends doesnt think this is how it is. ( He argues all 3 are hit.)

Yes, this is correct.

A perfect corner-to-corner diagonal shot through a ranked 5x5 regiment results in this line passing through only 5 models. Shift this line even a millimeter to the left or right and the line passes through an additional 4 models.

Accurately determining the exact number of models touched in a ranked regiment of often irregularilly posed models when the shot is fired from half-way across the table can be quite an ordeal and strain even the best of friendships.

The rule that maximum one model per rank is hit only requires you to determine which side the shot comes from and how deep into the unit it goes. Its simple and neat.

-T10

Caboose123
04-04-2008, 13:10
If they brought out a cannon template... :p

I agree with everyone above.

Greyfire
04-04-2008, 15:33
This is regardless of how many models' bases are touched by the bounce of the cannonball.
I might be reading it wrong, but I'm not sure that's quite right.

I've had many cannon shots that the direct line went touched only two bases in a unit of ogres from a side shot. I just couldn't get a better shot. The example in the book says that at most one model per rank/file is hit, but you still have to actually touch the model for the hit to be inflicted. I think the diagram in the book shows a flank shot that hits only four models in a five rank unit so only four guys get hit.

Other editions may have handled it differently. I remember something about the magic cannonball that hit a flank, and then veered 45 degrees to bounce through five ranks since I rolled a 10 for the bounce range. But that's changed.

Again, I may just be misunderstanding you WLBjork, but I wanted to chip in that you still can only wound the models you actually touch, subject to the "only one" part of the cannon rules.

-=- Steve

Atrahasis
04-04-2008, 15:48
I've had many cannon shots that the direct line went touched only two bases in a unit of ogres from a side shot. I just couldn't get a better shot. The example in the book says that at most one model per rank/file is hit, but you still have to actually touch the model for the hit to be inflicted. I think the diagram in the book shows a flank shot that hits only four models in a five rank unit so only four guys get hit.

WLBjork said maximum. He didn't say 1 model per rank, he said maximum of one model per rank.


Other editions may have handled it differently. I remember something about the magic cannonball that hit a flank, and then veered 45 degrees to bounce through five ranks since I rolled a 10 for the bounce range. But that's changed.Cannon have never ever worked that way.

Greyfire
04-04-2008, 21:56
WLBjork said maximum. He didn't say 1 model per rank, he said maximum of one model per rank.
He also said "regardless of how many models' bases are touched". For some reason in my head I read "regardless of how many models' bases are touched", meaning some could be hit that the line template didn't touch but that were still in that rank/file.

I did say I could be reading it wrong. :( Thanks for clearing it up.

Oh, and pretend that other line isn't there. I'll just call it a delusion induced by an FAQ for the previous rule set. I probably shouldn't have mentioned it.

-=- Steve

alextroy
05-04-2008, 02:35
I remember something about the magic cannonball that hit a flank, and then veered 45 degrees to bounce through five ranks since I rolled a 10 for the bounce range. But that's changed.

That would be the magic veering bolt thrower your thinking of, which is still here today.

Atrahasis
05-04-2008, 10:33
No, a lot of people misinterpreted the 6th ed War Machines article because there were two separate diagrams showing how to work out cannon shots, and the cannon (stupidly) was in a different position in each diagram.

alextroy
05-04-2008, 15:35
Ahh. I see.

Is still true about the bolt thrower, however. ;)

Tarax
06-04-2008, 11:39
Remember that the models hit is determined by the point the cannon fires from, front or flank arc, not the point the cannonball hits the first model.

Eg A unit is shot at by a cannon, which is positioned at its flank arc, determined from the target unit. The cannonball will now hit 1 model per file, even when the cannonball will hit the first model in the front.

vinush
06-04-2008, 14:41
It is prudent, for the working out of cannon shots, that as soon as the cannon ball hits the unit, it magically veers.

To explain, regardless of the angle it comes into contact with the unit, if it is in the flank you then measure directly across. Or from the front/rear it measures directly forwards.

That's the way we play it in my game group.

\/ince.

SuperBeast
06-04-2008, 15:05
It is prudent, for the working out of cannon shots, that as soon as the cannon ball hits the unit, it magically veers.

To explain, regardless of the angle it comes into contact with the unit, if it is in the flank you then measure directly across. Or from the front/rear it measures directly forwards.

That's the way we play it in my game group.

\/ince.

Not quite... The cannon ball still moves in a straight line away from the cannon regardless, and this determines the number of models you might hit.
The facing of the unit relative to the cannon simply creates the cap on the number of models you can hit.

Lordmonkey
06-04-2008, 16:19
Don't you have to fire at a particular model? And if so, wouldn't it be the centre of the model for targeting purposes?

Given that the above is true (because i'm not entirely sure), since the width of a cannon ball, in the rules, is infinitley small (i.e. non existent - it's a line) it is therefore impossible to hit more than one model per rank, unless you are firing from the flank.

Atrahasis
06-04-2008, 16:27
Unless lines have special properties in Lordmonkeyan geometry that I'm not aware of, the fact that lines are 1 dimensional does not mean they can't pass through more than one adjacent shape.

http://img218.imageshack.us/img218/1348/linehu0.png

The "lines are infinitely thin" justification for one hit/rank is bunk stemming from Gav's war machine article.

Lordmonkey
06-04-2008, 17:10
Unless lines have special properties in Lordmonkeyan geometry that I'm not aware of, the fact that lines are 1 dimensional does not mean they can't pass through more than one adjacent shape.

Yes. And now re-read my post, and draw the lines through the middle of the target model.

GodHead
06-04-2008, 20:02
Uhh.... 2 things.
1.) No, you don't have to aim at the center. If you had to aim at the center it would say "aim at the center of an enemy model"

2.) Even if you did have to aim at the center, the only way that would prevent multiple models in a single rank from being hit is if the unit was aligned 100% straight towards the cannon, which would never occur in a game.

Lordmonkey
06-04-2008, 21:06
2.) Even if you did have to aim at the center, the only way that would prevent multiple models in a single rank from being hit is if the unit was aligned 100% straight towards the cannon, which would never occur in a game.

After checking with a ruler, I can't work out where I got this idea from in the first place. My mistake :D

And apologies, Atrahasis.

soots
07-04-2008, 00:45
I used to always fire my cannon shots diagonally across units to get 2x more hits. They stopped this on purpose :)

back in 5th ed, i was playing dwarfs against undead and wood elves.

My opponents accidentally lined up Nagash and 2 treeman across the board to my organ gun. FYI, the old organ Guns were cannoons shots at x5 shots a turn for 65 pts!