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View Full Version : Is what you declare set in stone? (long)



bluekitsune13
05-04-2008, 02:32
All right, I just remember something from a game I played this week. I don't have the rulebook handy, but I don't remember reading anything about this. I'm wondering what the correct way to play would be in a tournament setting, just to be fair and all. I'm new to the game, and I'm still getting the hang of the rules. I just want to make sure that once I get into the game more that people aren't giving me breaks.

When you declare charges, do you have to enact the charges in the order you stated them in? For example. I'm going to charge unit X with unit A, Y with unit B, and Z with unit C. So now, do I have to go A, B, C in that order? Or can I mix it up and go C, A, then B? In the match I played, my opponent told me that I had to charge with the units as I announced them. I didn't know that so she gave me a break and let me do them out of order. I was just wondering to what extent the verbal declaration of your intents is set in stone.

When you want to shoot with a unit, are you allowed to see what units are in range, and then decide what to shoot? For example if there are multiple enemies within range, and I want to take out the toughest target. However, I'm not sure if that target is within range, although some weaker units are. If I declare that I'm firing at the tougher target, but they are out of range, can I choose another closer target? Or can I take my tape measure and draw a circle around my unit to just see what is within range? My opponent told me that once I said who I wanted to attack, whether they were out of range or whatever, I had to attack.

Last one. What about for forced movement? I play Orcs and Goblins, and the question came up with the Fanatics. When you launch Fanatics, I believe you must declare the direction you're launching them before you roll the dice for their movement. Also when launching Fanatics you can choose any point on the outside of the unit for the Fanatic to launch from. This is very important, because I've developed a few key strategies with them.

I made another topic here about resolving Fanatic death throes in combat. However, this is another question that's more relevant here. In what order do I resolve everything I mentioned above? Do I:

1) Point in the exact direction the Fanatic will move, and decide where the Fanatic will come from on which edge.

2) Roll the dice for movement

3) Place the Fanatic

In my example I had on that other topic, I tossed Fanatics in front of my other Goblin unit that was getting charged. That way, the charging unit will take an extra 1d6 for its death throes. However, I was wondering if I had to actually decide beforehand the exact path where it would go. If I did, then I had a chance of rolling too high and having the Fanatics spin through my unit, missing the enemies. If that's the correct way to do it, how do they do that in a tournament setting? Do they actually put a straight edge on the table to make the path before you roll?

Anyway, those where my questions. I hope they weren't too long, as I tried to give enough information to make it readable. Anyway, thanks for reading!

505
05-04-2008, 03:35
I don't have my rule book with me but.


charges must be done in the order that they were declaired


you can't premeasure your shooting. you need to do guess range items first then declair normal shooting and see if the target is in range

with fanatics the way I do it. is opint what direction they are going to go and from what model (a good referance) and then roll the dice. after that a tape measure is all that you need to get them were they need to be

Gorbad Ironclaw
05-04-2008, 03:53
Essentially once you have said what you are going to do, that's what you are doing.

Charges must be moved in the order they are declared in(making the order you declair them in very important), and similar with shooting, once you said you are shooting at something that's it. You are not allowed to pick another target because you are out of range, nor are you allowed to premeasure.

As for the fanatic. Pick a point you are aimng for and roll the dice.

Jonke
05-04-2008, 04:13
When you declare charges, do you have to enact the charges in the order you stated them in?

Chargers are moved in the order they are declared. Of course it is okay (imo) to say 'unit A charges unit X, unit B on Y and C on Z. B goes first, then A then C'.


When you want to shoot with a unit, are you allowed to see what units are in range, and then decide what to shoot?

The target of any ranged attack is declared before measuring for range, any attack which is out of range automatically miss. It is customary in warhammer not to measure more than necessary in any situation.


What about for forced movement? I believe you must declare the direction you're launching them before you roll the dice for their movement.

Declare direction, roll dice, move. In the case of a fanatics initial movement I would place the fanatic where I want it to leave the unit before declaring in which direction I want it to move.


If that's the correct way to do it, how do they do that in a tournament setting? Do they actually put a straight edge on the table to make the path before you roll?

I don't understand what you mean here.

Tarax
05-04-2008, 10:36
On p.20 of the BRB you will find the rule in which order to move your charging units, ie in the order in which they were declared.

Just to clarify.

T10
05-04-2008, 11:48
It is best practice to agree with your opponent what your are doing before moving models or rolling dice (see p. 8, by the way). By extension, if you believe your actions will have wide-reaching consequences you may find it politic to make your opponent aware of this before moving troops, e.g.:

Player 1: "I'm aligning my charging unit to yours by leaving this outer model (indicates model) in corner-to-corner contact. If i should get an overrun or pursuit move, then I intend to reach that unit behind it."

Player 2: "Doh!"

The idea is that this allows you to take into account potential disagreements and resolve them before being commited to the action. It doesn't mean you need to reveal your game plan. Just bear in mind that what you think is clever use of the rules is what your opponent may perceive as abuse by virtue of being on the receiving end.

Where distances are involved, the rule of thumb is that you rely on your own estimate. That means you usually don't bring out the ruler until the latest possible moment.

-T10

505
05-04-2008, 15:52
It is best practice to agree with your opponent what your are doing before moving models or rolling dice


I agree. I had a guy standing there rolling a fistfull of dice. after about 5 rolls he said hey my shooting hit 8 times :confused:

so I made it a habit of asking whenever anyone rolls a dice asking "what was that for?" you would be surprised by how many look at me stupidly and say uh practicing. they are now in thehabit of not "practicing"

DeathlessDraich
06-04-2008, 10:17
This might or might not be relevant but I feel it is worth mentioning here:

1) A player may change his mind about charge declarations provided it is clear that, that sub phase is not over.

2) If the opposing player declares a charge response while charge declarations are being made, either player may still retract their declaration/response.

SuperBeast
06-04-2008, 11:47
so I made it a habit of asking whenever anyone rolls a dice asking "what was that for?"

I'm a little shocked you had to make a habit of this; it's general bad form for your opponent to do that.

In our gaming group, it's a general rule that if you roll dice but don't declare what you are rolling for first, then it doesn't matter how many sixes you rolled, you're rolling again...

"Practising" dice rolling also results in head injuries...

Nkari
06-04-2008, 13:59
Yup.. You declare wich order charges are being moved in.. But as long as you have not strated to move any charges or moved onto cump move phase its ok to switch wich order you declare your charges in..

All guess weapons are declared and resolved, then you move on to weapons that use BS, these you do not have to declare all at once, but on a unit to unit basis..

And if you are rolling for stuff and not saying what you are rolling for you reroll.. you allso reroll all dice that are not 100% flat on the table, even if they land 100% flat in a terrain pice.. it doesnt matter it gets rerolled anyway.. this is just to avoid arguments on wich dice count and wich should be rerolled..

Templar_Victorious
07-04-2008, 02:05
One thing we used to do, with dices not perfectly plain, was that when ever a dice got a slight shift, be it terrain or models or anything, we simply put another dice on top. If the other dice then stayed on top, the roll was standing, no matter if it was a bad or good roll, and where the dice would fall off, the dice was to be rerolled. One of the tables even had small bumps and dents, so some dices would end up with a corner at the bottom.. :D

Anaris
08-04-2008, 09:32
Just to reply to the post directly above mine. My local GW does a similar thing, but I've personally just went to the extreme and tell my opponent at the start of the game or (more often - as I forgot to mention at the start) the first time it happens, but if any, and I mean any (be it a hit or a miss) of my dice don't land perfectly flat on the table I re-roll them.

Any method works of course slow long as you are consistent, and you would be suprised at the number of my opponents start doing the same as me.

Chicago Slim
08-04-2008, 10:50
you allso reroll all dice that are not 100% flat on the table, even if they land 100% flat in a terrain pice.. it doesnt matter it gets rerolled anyway.. this is just to avoid arguments on wich dice count and wich should be rerolled..

Unlike the other comments Nkari made, this is one that I don't always see, or at least that my local group does differently: our "cocked die" test is that the person who rolled the dice makes a good-faith effort to balance another die on top of the potentially cocked die. If the second die slides off, then the original needs to be re-rolled. Dice landing on the floor always get re-rolled.

I'll allow that the only advantage this has over NKari's very reasonable system is that it's very funny to watch people trying to balance a dice on that six... :)

TheDarkDaff
08-04-2008, 12:30
Why don't you just use the simple method i use when i game. Roll the dice in a box next to the table and any dice that don't end up in the box get re-rolled in the box until they stay in there.

Greyfire
08-04-2008, 14:09
Why don't you just use the simple method i use when i game. Roll the dice in a box next to the table and any dice that don't end up in the box get re-rolled in the box until they stay in there.
Be careful with that. I've seen a player take the dice that missed the box, and "roll" them back into the box, only his new "rolls" were aimed at the dice showing 1's. Needless to say, several of us had to have a little chat about that "tactic". Easy to fix by removing the results of the first roll from the box first, but if you're not paying attention it can be misused.