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View Full Version : Any of you ever use High Elf Seaguards?



gorenut
06-04-2008, 03:03
Just curious. I'm thinking of converting a few from the Lion Chariot set, but not sure if they're worth it.

LKHERO
06-04-2008, 03:54
Lothern Sea Guards?

I use them as cheap core. ^_^

Runt Nosher
06-04-2008, 06:02
I hope the '^_^' in your post meant you were being sarcastic because 13 pts/model is far from cheap core. I just prefer spears and archers because they are more specialised to the roles they do. But if you are inclined to make a nice looking unit, and it applies to your theme or style of play feel free. I have used them in a handful of games in my day and just find them to be too jack of all trades good at none, without good-great rolling they will just whiff and die like all T3 5+ save models.

Dux Ducis
06-04-2008, 07:42
They're cheap if you take just two units at their minimum size. They can also multi-task, so in essence you are getting two units in one.

Leogun_91
06-04-2008, 20:21
They are cheap core compared to chaos knights.......

I never use them but as I never use any other HE either it has nothing to do with their usefullness. Many persons I have met that plays HE however often uses them and they often plays pretty good.

CouncilOfWar
06-04-2008, 21:09
I personally think that the Lothern Sea Guard are worth it.

Yes, they are more expensive than either ordinary spearmen or archers, but then they are specially trained to fulfill both roles. If you took a spearman and archer to every single LSG, then it would be a lot more expensive.

The LSG enable you greater flexibility and better defence for both your missile troops and spearmen. If the enemy charge your LSG, you will be able to stand and shoot, cutting a small number down before they clash with your multiple ranks of spears. Likewise, as they are your missile troops as well, they can defend themselves far better than normal archers in close combat.

If you want to play offensively, then the higher ballistic skill of the HEs means that, even when you move forward, your LSG will still have a standard chance of hitting, enabling you to pepper the enemy before engaging them with your spears. If the enemy is lacking in missile and artillery themselves, then you will be able to halt before reaching the enemy lines and within short-range distance to fire further salvos before close combat. In such a scenario it is likely the enemy will be forced to then charge onto your spears to avoid heavy casualties from the BS4 of your LSG at close range.

They have slightly less range than normal archers because they use bows instead of longbows....but you have Repeater Bolt Throwers to back them up and can always field a couple smaller units of archers to give you that extra support until and after your LSG have moved forwards if neccesary.

Try them.....it is the only real way to find out if you like them or not.

Council Of War

GodHead
06-04-2008, 21:28
If you want to play offensively, then the higher ballistic skill of the HEs means that, even when you move forward, your LSG will still have a standard chance of hitting, enabling you to pepper the enemy before engaging them with your spears. If the enemy is lacking in missile and artillery themselves, then you will be able to halt before reaching the enemy lines and within short-range distance to fire further salvos before close combat. In such a scenario it is likely the enemy will be forced to then charge onto your spears to avoid heavy casualties from the BS4 of your LSG at close range.

I disagree with this. If you are using them offensively then they will be marching and thus unable to shoot.

They're fine for defensive roles, but pants for aggression. They're the Seaguard not the Seaattackers.

CouncilOfWar
06-04-2008, 21:42
Why would they be marching?

They would only be marching towards the enemy if they wanted to quickly engage in close combat, which would not be the case against an enemy with inferior missile and artillery capability.

Considering that, in a standard battle setup, the distance between deployment zones is fairly small (around between 12-24"), the objective would be to steadily advance towards the enemy, using the HEs higher BS to counter-balance the -1 to hit modifier for moving and shooting....and thus get in as much shooting as possible before engaging the enemy lines.

The point of LSG is to use their double ability....otheriwise you may as well stick to the standard archers and spearmen no?

Being called the Seaguard has nothing to do with whether they are used defensively or offensively during the course of a battle.....it is because their primary purpose is the protection of their homeland. However, if you read the army book, you will see that they are just as much at home being used in offensive manouvres taking on enemy ship crews and assaulting beach heads during an invasion when the main army goes to war as they in a defensive nature when their own lands are attacked.

Council Of War

GodHead
06-04-2008, 21:45
Otherwise you may as well stick to the standard Spearelves.

5" a turn is not enough to get into combat and 5 bowshots a turn isn't worth: a.) not marching; b.) the extra 80 points the unit costs compared to Spearelves. I don't know where you've been playing with 12" between deployment zones, but 24" is the usual distance between players.

CouncilOfWar
06-04-2008, 22:19
24" before the 1st turn, bearing in mind that both you and the enemy will probably be advancing towards one another after the battle has begun.....

As far as distance is concerned, I am making allowances for upto 24". That does not mean that some do not begin with less. The majority of games at our local GW store begin with 24" (thereabouts, depending if the set it up properly) but people play their games differently and I have seen a good number with a lesser distance and even a couple with more.

5 bowshots a turn is an assumption, which is, probably, based on how you would setup an army using LSG (particularly if you would use them as a support in small numbers to ordinary spearmen and archer units). That is not to say that some people do not use more. I would, for example, probably concentrate them in larger numbers than most....expensive perhaps, but again not in my opinion in consideration of double role....and that I tend to rely less on special/rare choices and characters than perhaps some people.

Again.....with the comparison to spearmen.....the reason for me taking them is their dual role, not instead of either spearmen or archers individually, but rather over both of them.

At the end of the day, we all have different styles of playing and views, something that is inevitably a good thing for the hobby in many ways.

Council Of War

merkado
06-04-2008, 23:30
I use them to guard my Bolt Throwers

TheSanityAssassin
07-04-2008, 02:36
They can be used effectively as things like Bolt Thrower guards and anchors...say take 15, rank them into 2 ranks of 7 on a hill, then pop back to 3 ranks when the enemy closes...stand and shoot with 2 ranks then fight in 3....pretty nasty. The thing is that to use them like that they tend to take over the army tactics....that is not necessarily a bad thing, but they don't fit with a lot of army builds. I know that I myself am pants-off aggressive with my Elves, and rarely are units not marching until they hit combat (unless I'm facing something REALLY fast and scary that causes me to position to recieve charges instead), and that Seaguard have never really been worth it to me. I tend to pair a unit of spears up with a unit of Elite troops and move them almost like detatchments to add numbers to heavy hitters.

Xyon
29-04-2008, 17:49
They would not be bad as a unit of 10 with shields, just field them 10 wide, move them forward 5" and shoot away, possibly using them as a flanking unit to a block of spearmen.

Keeping them single file lets you ignore their spears and use hand weapons instead for a 4+ save in combat, and its relatively cheap, not as cheap as 10 spearmen or archers, but its cheap enough to be an effective unit if ignored, but is not a devastating loss if destroyed.

Hell they're the same points with shields this edition as archers with light armor were last edition, and a heck of a lot better points wise than they were last edition.

So if you used seaguard or archers last edition then seaguard must seem alot better for their points this edition.

Oh well enough rambling, I think they are atleast worth trying a couple times to see if you like them, and building a unit of 10 with shields is not a huge investment.

I'm planning on building a unit of 10 for my cothique army.

Mercules
29-04-2008, 18:08
18 LSG on a hill placed 9 wide in two ranks. All of them now get their shots. When the enemy finally comes close enough to threaten a charge they reform into either 6x3 or 5x3(with casualties or expecting casualties before ASF goes off), and now they get a lot of hits in with their spears. Much better than Archers at holding a position.