PDA

View Full Version : Hellguns don't "feel" right to me....



Spamus Eatus
12-10-2005, 01:33
There is something about hellguns I just realized that I don't care for. Now, for the record, I don't play Guard or have =I= Stormtroopers in any of my other lists. But I think Stormtroopers are damn sexy. Now that that's out of the way...

ST3 AP5 RAPID FIRE 24" just dosen't seem right to me. My main problem is the multilaser. A heavy weapon that is ST6 AP6. Why would the ST be higher, but not the AP? I guess it just bugs me. The Kasrkin with the backpack-fed hellguns sorta look like they could maintain high rates of fire.

Here is my solution to hellguns. (I have two)

ST4 AP6 RAPID FIRE 24" (or AP-, I'm not sure)

ST3 AP- ASSAULT 2 18" (I don't want to make them quite as good as Eldar lasblasters. This would allow them to be quite mobile on the battlefield.)

So, does anybody else have any ideas? Or do you all think I'm spouting incoherent gibberish? I am known to do that from time to time.:D

Strikerkc
12-10-2005, 01:44
While they are out of synch with other weapons background wise, they fit fine stat wise into the army. They're meant to be anti infatry type weapons. And against the basic troopers of just about every army, they are actualy very good weapons (power armor excluded).


But if you really really need a back ground reason, think of it this way...

Higher strength = more energy in each shot

Higher AP = more focused beam

So while a multi laser may put out more energy than a hell gun or las gun, the beam on the hell gun has the same energy as a las gun but in a more focused beam.

milmot
12-10-2005, 02:48
The way i see it, the multilaser simply has a larger beam - so more powerful. Plus it is firing them at a high rate.

The hellgun is just an overcharged lasgun.
To put it in perspective, compare it with a standard bolter. You cant have it has Str 4 because a souped up lasgun is not the same as a mini rocket (bolt). And you cant have it as an assault weapon because it should behave as a lasgun (rapid fire), and in addition it is bulkier than a lasgun (cancels out the possibility of the assault stat).

Mikari
12-10-2005, 02:57
High strength and low AP could easily represent many things, lets for example say an ork hits you with a firey stick. The stick won't damage Ar (AP -) but if it gets through it'll sting like a bitch..

Not all weapons are based on instantly penetrating everything. There are guns designed to just spam against unprotected troops and disable them, they have a wider spread so they hit more and what they hit goes down hard.

Ouroboros
12-10-2005, 03:23
Hotshot lasguns were always str4 in Necromunda so I'm also in the "Hellguns should be str4" camp. The way I look at it you need the big battery to turn out more powerful shots not more focused shots. More focused shots would just be sometihng like better lenses in the gun not a giant battery the size of a backpack.

I say str4 ap-, still pretty infearior to bolters that way but now actually worthy of distinction against 80% of the armies in the game.

Chaos and Evil
12-10-2005, 04:07
But then you get Hellguns glancing light vehicles on 6's... rapid fire...

And that's why 40k's armour rules are inferior to WFB's...

TitusAndronicus
12-10-2005, 04:19
why shouldn't a hellgun be able to pop A10 vehicles once in a blue moon? Hardly like it's a game winner, rather a handy tool.

Adept
12-10-2005, 04:52
I don't think the 'assault' tag should be so much about the specs of the weapon, but about the training and use of it by the warrior. I don't think Hellguns should be assault anything, but I do think they should be S4.

violenceha
12-10-2005, 05:00
they're laser weapons not bloody boltguns, do we really need IG with what's is basically a bolter?

TitusAndronicus
12-10-2005, 05:21
yes :-).....

Dvalin
12-10-2005, 05:23
If Hellguns were S4, how many IG armies would end up using the grenadier doctrine? Just, y'know, to bring up a point.

Adept
12-10-2005, 09:16
If Hellguns were S4, how many IG armies would end up using the grenadier doctrine? Just, y'know, to bring up a point.

You still lose out on any heavy weapons, use up a doctrines choice and have to pay more points. If it isn't over-powering for Marines (who also get a swag of better stats and armour) why should it be for an elite choice in another army?

marv335
12-10-2005, 09:39
classicaly, the hellgun upgrade turned the lasgun into a bolter level weapon.
i say return it to the way it was. the hellgun was a way of giving a stormtrooper a bolter without arming them with bolters.
hardly a game winning, unbalancing change.

Spell_of_Destruction
12-10-2005, 16:06
Unless you gave it the same stats as a bolter, changing it will make it worse in some instances. S: 4 AP: 6/- would make it inferior against Eldar guardians, Dark Eldar Warriors and other IG. You're handing them back a 1/3 chance of saving in return for a 1/6 extra chance of wounding. It would help slightly against Orks, Tau and Aspect Warriors (if AP 6) but against Meqs, even a S 4 weapon is going to do little in the way of damage. I know this due to the ineffectiveness of my shuriken catapults.

I must say that I hate the way they changed armour from 2nd to 3rd ed. I know this has probably been covered numerous times but I really feel that it's what's wrong at the heart of the system. I would have kept save modiefiers and rather than having negative to hit modifiers for firing through cover have introduced positive save modifiers. Then marines, y'know, might actually find cover useful. Sorry, I've gone completely off topic.

Shield of Freedom
12-10-2005, 21:10
Originaly in 2nd edition Hellguns (then called Hot-Shot lasers) were upgraded to S4 without changing it's armor save modifire. I think Hellguns should be S4 AP-. Or to make them more "tactical" than the other inflexible guard units make it R24" S3 AP- Assault 1.

Helicon_One
12-10-2005, 22:59
Is a 'hellgun' the same thing as a 'hotshot lasgun', though?

The impression I get is that the hotshot is a modification carried out to a standard lasgun, overcharging the power cell and putting in a new barrel and focusing crystal (eg Mad Larkin's sniper pattern hotlas). The hellgun is a totally new weapon which just happens to use las technology.

Leave the hellgun as it is, and introduce a 'hotshot' upgrade for lasguns - 30" S4 AP4, may not rapid fire, say?

Tim

TitusAndronicus
12-10-2005, 23:02
oh dear lord now we're springing into ne territory. The Hotshot is a sniper rifle accoridng to Dan Abnett. According to others it is a hellgun. I prefer to think of it as slang for a cool gun, sort of like a hotrod is a suped up car of some kind.

snikch13
16-10-2005, 21:07
well, to make a point, not only are they supposed to be more refined beams, ie more cutting power, but the targeters would help on aiming and finding weak spots in armor, right?

thats from a story perspect anyway