PDA

View Full Version : Are Dark Riders mandatory?



Rubicon
07-04-2008, 00:49
Obviously not from a rules point of view, but I find that every list I write has at least 5 Dark Riders w/muso in them, and most have two units of five.

Does anyone run a DE build without Dark Riders?

Havesome
07-04-2008, 02:25
A guy at my local store runs a beast oriented list (Dragon or Manticore, War Hydra, Sorceress on Pegasus, multiple Cold Ones, etc.) that doesn't have any Dark Riders in it. It does alright. I think he would probably use them if he didn't both hate the pricing of the current Dark Riders and also hate the idea of converting the Wood Elf riders.

Uriain
07-04-2008, 04:32
I am currently running a list with no Dark Riders. Big blocks of infantry, couple hammer units and a couple bolt throwers. Works well. Fast cav is a bit of a problem, but just reposition more.

Urgat
07-04-2008, 09:41
Honestly, I can't picture myself building an army (any army, not just DE) w/o having at least one or two units of light cavalry (if you got the choice, of course). So, from my point of view, yes. light cav is just too handy not to be taken.

ReveredChaplainDrake
07-04-2008, 19:55
I've seen DE lists based off huge blocks spread all over the place, but frankly these lists are why people get the misconception that DEs suck. Black Guard, Witch Elves, Executioners, and Corsairs are neat and all, but for my points I won't leave the Black Ark without 3 units of 5 Dark Riders w/ RxBs & Music. Not that these aren't all my cores though. I also have about 3 units of 10x RxB elves. :cheese:

I just don't like footblocks because you need all those stupid movement trays to play a game, and it's demeaning to the models I spend so much time painting that they don't even see any action, except as the first casualties to missile and magic fire. My current running 2000-pt Dark Elves list requires not one single movement tray, and that above all is the single most appealing thing about DEs to me.

theunwantedbeing
07-04-2008, 19:59
2 units of 5 tends to be useful to have, and also sets you back a good 250points in 10 models that are hellishly easy to kill.

They arent manditory, neither are bolt throwers or corsairs or scroll caddies.
I've won without any of the above with dark elves....against competant opponents as well, with my standard terrible rolling.

Mike KK
07-04-2008, 21:18
tbh they are similar to ellyrian reavers and the same point is they too expensive to fast cav. compared to other armies and die too easy also considering your foot troops move very fast i find with high elves fast cav. are unneeded

winkypinky
08-04-2008, 00:29
I think it is a question on if you want to win or not.

All riders = win

some riders = maybe a win

no riders = defeat

sulla
08-04-2008, 07:17
They're a no brainer against any army except gunlines or blasty magic heavy armies. None of our core can take a charge so why not choose the ones that can flee, rally and come back to do it again? And that's just for starters.

They are so much more versatile than our core infantry.

GrogsnotPowwabomba
08-04-2008, 17:56
I have never seen a successful Dark Elf army without them.

Honestly, they are an amazing Core choice. Why would you not take advantage of them?


tbh they are similar to ellyrian reavers and the same point is they too expensive to fast cav. compared to other armies and die too easy also considering your foot troops move very fast i find with high elves fast cav. are unneeded

LOL are you serious? Beyond the fact that I can't believe you don't see the use in Core Fast Cavalry for an Elven army that does not have ASF, High Elves are a completely different army now from Dark Elves, so the comparison is useless...

Havock
09-04-2008, 22:25
For DE, I am inclined to say, no, but nearly so. OF course you can do without, but the speed and usefulness just makes the Druchii world work (as far as that's worth something right now...)

Mouldsta
10-04-2008, 00:33
They're mandatory for me - My decision for every army list is simply how many units of 5 with rxb and musician I'm taking (usually 2 or 3).

They do require a bit of finesse to use though to keep them out of harm's way, and you do need to remove all enemy shooting IMO (hence the multiple units of 10 rxb + RBT)

I think I agree with ReveredChaplainDrake about DE tactica somehow ;)

Uriain
10-04-2008, 04:29
I am still going to have to dissagree. Even against armies with moderate shooting or magic. One turn and there goes at least half the unit of dark riders. Pistolliers are better then Dark Riders and mow through them. Stuff like Squigs or other move through terrain with no penalty stuff makes a mockary of Dark Riders. For their point cost they are ok. After useing 2 units for a long time. I am giving them a break for another block of infantry. One a game against Infantry heavy orcs and a really blanaced Empire list. Gun lines and super magic heavy will always be DE problems unless you go the same. 254 points for 10 guys, or a charriot and 12 executioners with champion and muso. Thats how I look at it. and the charriot/exec's will (for the moment) win everytime.

GrogsnotPowwabomba
10-04-2008, 07:59
Comparing to the units of other armies is pointless. We are talking about Dark Elves. You could just as equally complain that Executioners suck because High Elves have Swordmasters, or Dark Elf RxB Warriors suck because Dwarfs have Quarellers, etc. Its a pointless argument...

Second, all of the things you have compared Dark Riders to are Special choices. Some of the comparisons don't even make sense. I have no idea how you compare Dark Riders to Executioners, for example. The two units serve completely different purposes in the Dark Elf army, and the Executioners are even more fragile to shooting due to their slower speed (which you claim is one of the big weaknesses of Dark Riders).

Dark Riders are used for the following purposes, and there is no other unit in the Dark Elf army (let alone a Core choice) that can accomplish all of these roles:

- Warmachine/Wizard hunting
- March Blocking
- Busting enemy rank bonuses
- Suicide charging into wizard's units, directing all attacks against wizard, killing him, and then losing and running away
- Baiting enemy charges
- Luring Frenzied troops
- Destroying enemy support elements (enemy Fast Cavalry, Flyers, etc)
- Receiving enemy charges, and angling them in such a way that the enemy's flank is exposed to counter-attacks
- Grabbing table quarters

Dark Riders are an amazing, versatile unit. I don't know any other unit in the Dark Elf army that can accomplish so many different things for such a low price (97 or 127 points).