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JayMack
07-04-2008, 07:21
'Note that troops that charge will strike first in the initial turn of close combat, as charging troops ALWAYS STRIKE FIRST(emphasis mine) rather than initiative order.' BRB

I bring this up because I have an upcoming game where my bretonnians are facing off against HE and the swordmasters scare me. But if charging essentially gives you the ASF rule, which leads to ASF vs ASF, which leads to comparing I, which leads to the ASL rule. Wouldn't Bret knights (or anything for that matter) strike before the GW HE regiments would?

Sashu
07-04-2008, 07:34
'Note that troops that charge will strike first in the initial turn of close combat, as charging troops ALWAYS STRIKE FIRST(emphasis mine) rather than initiative order.' BRB

I bring this up because I have an upcoming game where my bretonnians are facing off against HE and the swordmasters scare me. But if charging essentially gives you the ASF rule, which leads to ASF vs ASF, which leads to comparing I, which leads to the ASL rule. Wouldn't Bret knights (or anything for that matter) strike before the GW HE regiments would?


Chargers always strike first, but do not have the always strike first rule. The always strikes first rule say that the models with the rule strike before chargers regardless of weapons. The swordmasters will strike first.

WLBjork
07-04-2008, 07:38
Re-read page 34, "Who strikes first".

Troops that charge automatically strike first. They don't always strike first.

Big difference.

JayMack
07-04-2008, 07:44
Ah, missed that one. Well played.

Kloud13
07-04-2008, 07:49
Charging troops do not have "Always Strikes First" They "Automatically hit first."

Always Strikes First, means you Always Strike first, as the book says, "even before models that have charged that turn and regardless of Initiative."

AND

Just as Slanns don't ever have to worry about miscasts, High Elves never have to worry about the Great Weapons "Strike Last" Rule.

Read the Rule about "Always Strikes First" on pg 94 of the English edition of the Warhammer rule book. IF a model with ASF encounters another model with ASF, it goes directly to Initiative, then to a dice roll. That is it.

SuperBeast
07-04-2008, 08:21
Kloud, yes they do - as the upcoming FAQ will attest, apparently.

warlord hack'a
07-04-2008, 10:24
NOOOOO do not start this discussion here again ;-). though I do agree with you superbeast..

Porksta
07-04-2008, 14:34
Just as Slanns don't ever have to worry about miscasts, High Elves never have to worry about the Great Weapons "Strike Last" Rule.

I'm looking in my HE book and am unable to find this rule. Can you give me a page number?

redrum
07-04-2008, 16:27
I bring this up because I have an upcoming game where my bretonnians are facing off against HE and the swordmasters scare me. But if charging essentially gives you the ASF rule, which leads to ASF vs ASF, which leads to comparing I, which leads to the ASL rule. Wouldn't Bret knights (or anything for that matter) strike before the GW HE regiments would?

The short answer is don't charge Swordmasters. They're only T3 so your arrows will kill them, or better yet unload a Trebuchet on them. I hate Swordmasters, whenever I play them with my Lizzards my Slanns first order of business is to get rid of them. Unfortunately I don't think Brets can take any magic that can really stick it to them. I don't remember what lores you can take but you're probably just better off dropping a couple of big rocks on their heads.

JayMack
07-04-2008, 18:22
Limited to Life, Beasts and Heavens I'm afraid. =(

Grimgormx
07-04-2008, 19:17
Use the Trebuchet, reduse the number of knights (he may use lore of metal on you)
use your core choice to buy units of bowmen (shooting at 30' you wont have to worry about the sword masters I have killed them wiyh gobos and short bows)

Use your cavalry to do the killing blow (2 units of 6 knights), and pray to the lady, 5 ws is really good

Greyfire
07-04-2008, 21:26
Limited to Life, Beasts and Heavens I'm afraid. =(
Lore of Heavens is your friend then, for Uranon's Thunderbolt, Forked Lightning, and Comet. I like Uranon's the best (no armor save), but you've got a 50/50 shot at an offensive spell.

Plus lots of missiles.

Best of luck!

505
08-04-2008, 04:28
as the upcoming FAQ will attest, apparently.

just like the FAQs that have been promised for the last 8 years :eyebrows:

anyways ASF specifically out does charges as it specifically says so in the rule