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faeryty
08-04-2008, 01:41
... would it be to field an eldar army in a tourney with no craftworld cohension in colourscheme?

I'm just getting back into the hobby after 8 years or so (and never played any games outside of my friends in my dining room anyway) but now I'm older and more mature. I'm mainly in it for the painting and modelling. But I may want to participate in tournament at some point in the future. I've just painted my first model (see it (although rather blurry) in the painting section) which is a Saim-Hann warlock simply because I had the figure, unpainted and the paint set I had had all the colours I would need. And I liked the look of the model in the codex. However, the army I have isn't really very Saim-Hanny. Only 3 vehicles. Also, I can see myself doing the same thing again, but with a different craftworld colourscheme.

After I paint enough of my figures, I may decide I want aesthetic cohesion anyway, but for now. So how important is army fluff in a tournament?

faeryty

onlainari
08-04-2008, 02:37
Do you live in Australia?

You're best to chose one color scheme and stick with it. You can do saim hann without taking a saim hann list, that's not going to hurt much. However if you don't have a generalized color scheme then you may lose some painting marks.

faeryty
08-04-2008, 02:47
Do you live in Australia?

You're best to chose one color scheme and stick with it. You can do saim hann without taking a saim hann list, that's not going to hurt much. However if you don't have a generalized color scheme then you may lose some painting marks.

... No I don't live in Australia. About as far away as you can get really - the UK. Why do you ask?

To be honest, I have bought a couple of big army lots off ebay and i'm going to end up with about 5 farseers, 12 Warlocks and about 80 guardians. And I play (or at least intend to play) a mainly aspect warrior list. I might actually be able to have an HQ and Guardian squad for every craftworld I like, provided I don't need to field a huge army any time. Only problem would be vehicles...

Thanks for the reply btw

onlainari
08-04-2008, 02:58
UK tournaments are highly unlikely to penalize you for anything other than unpainted models. They're cheesefests.

faeryty
08-04-2008, 03:07
awesome. thanks for the advice :)

Culven
08-04-2008, 03:27
The worst that would probably happen would be the loss of a few points for painting, assuming that painting is even concidered in the overall score. Only at a GT or other high profile venue might you be asked to remove unpainted models from the table.

dr.oetk3r
08-04-2008, 03:29
I remember back in second edition Eldar armies had mixed craft worlds. Looks quite stunning TBH.

Clang
08-04-2008, 06:34
write yourself a bit of background fluff about some joint craftworld mission on a campaign to wipe out some mutual enemy, or alternatively the tattered remains of several craftworld armies who are now forced to fight alongside each other.

leonmallett
08-04-2008, 08:45
UK tournaments are highly unlikely to penalize you for anything other than unpainted models. They're cheesefests.


A sweeping genralisation that last statement - I would say as a hobbyist who has attended a few GT's. Is your statement based on personal experience or internet chatter?

To the OP - GT players can be penalised for painting issues. The 2006/7 minimum standard was described as: three colours on each model in an appropriate scheme.

More broadly, they are your models to paint as you wish. That said, a cohesive looking force can be more satisfying (if more daunting because of having to paint a repetitive scheme). The bonus of a unified colour scheme comes in batch painting - a time saving approach. Invest in a tank brush, look after it well, to get the main colour on the model and away you go. A friend got me into doing this and I am now on my 4th 40K army in about 5 years, when for many years I couldn't finish more than a unit or two. My painting tools are tank brush, basecoat brush (it seems to keep its shape well, and allows for quick broad coverage) and a detail brush to pick out fine details. On top of that I use a couple of decent Italieri flat brushes for extreme highlights or drybrushing. Vallejo paints can be a very useful consideration.

The UK GT does have a limited background (fluff) requirement as well.

Trickle
08-04-2008, 09:45
You can always strip the warlock later if it still bothers you in the long run.

I dont see why 2 craft worlds couldn't combine forces. The worlds themselves may be far apart at the end of the 41st millennium (the GW established ones, you can do what you like with your own), but they may not have been in the past. Plus web way traveling is always a good excuse.

silverstu
08-04-2008, 09:51
I have my army painted in saim hann colours, and at the moment i don't field them as a wind rider host- mostly infantry with a fire prism, 2 squads of 3 jetbikes and a pair of vypers. basically I all of saim hann don't ride bikes/vehicles and they have other elements which may deploy differently- that's how i see it. I mean I would be happy to field a spirit host in Saim hann colours- you are drawing on the resources of an entire craftworld- they have the resources to field such formations and certain circumstances would dictate that.
don't sweat it is my advice and enjoy the painting, but perhaps have a bit of a background story to your formation[as part of an apocalypse army they reprecent the ground forces the bikes/tanks are fighting elsewhere].
Saim Hann colours- good choice mate.

Adra
08-04-2008, 10:04
eldar forces always look a bit random on the table anyway as many people dont use their army colours for their aspect warriors. so the tanks, guardians, seers and wraiths are all blue...but scorpions stay green and banshees bone....never liked that. Colour is a feature of unification in an army. its so it looks like one host and not a rag tag bunch of randoms.

JackBurton01
08-04-2008, 14:20
I like randoms personally, my new space marine army is going to be a crusade army with all nine chapters.

Panzerkanzler
08-04-2008, 18:27
I never play people with unpainted minis. And I'd strongly prefer not to play someone with a mad mix of different colour patterns. Fortunatly for me many players in Sweden do paint their armies.

DSwede
08-04-2008, 20:01
I never play people with unpainted minis. And I'd strongly prefer not to play someone with a mad mix of different colour patterns. Fortunatly for me many players in Sweden do paint their armies.

Well what else are you going to do those 6 months of cold, rain, sludge and darkness? :)

Lord Cook
08-04-2008, 20:07
Aspect warriors are generally painted in the colours of their aspect rather than the colours of their army. So you can have a unified looking force with lots and lots of variety. For example, warp spiders are always red and black, dire avengers are blue and white, striking scorpions are light green, etc. Perfectly fitting for Eldar. Just paint all your non-aspect units in Saim-Hann colours and you're away.

Of course if you want pure fluff, then the rest of your army should really be in Biel-Tan colours, but it's your army, and your choice.


UK tournaments are highly unlikely to penalize you for anything other than unpainted models. They're cheesefests.

We prefer to think of them as "unrestrainedly competitive" ;).

bnrweimann
09-04-2008, 01:19
As everyone else has said, it's your army so do what you want. You may get docked a few points, depending on your opponents opinions. Course, you can also get docked sportsmanship if your opponent is having a bad day, or just because he's convinced your Army can't beat his and you must be cheating... Or because he just plain doesn't like army X and is going to punish you for using them.

Over time I think you'll end up wanting to make the army more consistent. That's what happened to me. I started collecting in 2nd Edition, back then I didn't make a lot of money. Tended to buy a squad or vehicle or two a year. As I got them I painted them however it struck me at that time. Nothing was painted badly, but the overall aesthetic wasn't very good. After the latest Eldar Codex I was inspired to repaint the entire army. It's gotten me one best appearance and one overall win (OK, three battles where dice didn't utterly fail me helped with the win) this year in RTs in my local area.

Gorbad Ironclaw
09-04-2008, 04:33
UK tournaments are highly unlikely to penalize you for anything other than unpainted models. They're cheesefests.


You do realise you have no idea what you are talking about, right? :p

It might be correct for the GW GT, but there are a LOT of other tournaments in the UK (most of them better than the GT IMO), and many of them are nothing at all like that.

It might cost you a few painting marks, but that's about it. I don't think people are going to be talking about you behind your back or anything. And who knows. If you pull it off right it could even look quite good.

Occulto
09-04-2008, 06:32
And who knows. If you pull it off right it could even look quite good.

The most important thing is to maintain the same techniques.

ie don't use dipping for one unit, NMM (non-metallic-metalics) on another, ink/drybrushing on the next and so on.

It ends up looking like you've just bought a bunch of 2nd hand units off a few different people and thrown them together.

Baneboss
09-04-2008, 07:20
Ok so theoretically if I would paint my eldar army red and black instead of white and green I would get less points for using many aspect warriors?

Now I have heard of everything...

Panzerkanzler
09-04-2008, 10:28
Well what else are you going to do those 6 months of cold, rain, sludge and darkness? :)

I love those six months. I actually hate the summer, the sun an warm weather. I strongly prefer it to be dusky, cold and rainy/snowy/foggy. Too bad global warming is *********** Sweden's nice cold winters up, it might soon be time for me to move to northern Norway, Canada or Iceland. As long as they have at least 10mbit broadband connections I'm good :D

faeryty
09-04-2008, 14:15
The most important thing is to maintain the same techniques.

ie don't use dipping for one unit, NMM (non-metallic-metalics) on another, ink/drybrushing on the next and so on.

Sounds like good advice. Thanks :)



It ends up looking like you've just bought a bunch of 2nd hand units off a few different people and thrown them together.

That's what I have done! Although I'm slowly working my way through them, stripping and repainting them. I'm far too poor to pay retail, or even retail less 20%! But yeah, even though I'm not a great painter myself, only one unit I have acquired so far is actually better painted than I could do I myself. Hopefully by the time I've repainted everything else I'll be good enough to better that one.

Gorbad Ironclaw
09-04-2008, 15:13
Ok so theoretically if I would paint my eldar army red and black instead of white and green I would get less points for using many aspect warriors?

Now I have heard of everything...


I doubt it, certainly not under any system I've seen.

Occulto
09-04-2008, 16:01
Sounds like good advice. Thanks :)

I've marked painting at a few tournaments and the thing that always goes through my mind (and earns the points) is that a consistent paintjob looks better than a whole mish-mash of "good" but ill fitting units.

The other thing that looks good with varying colour schemes is to pick a certain thing that's repeated throughout the army. So for Eldar, I'd probably use their guns. If the same colour and technique is used for every model, then the army's going to look really tight even though squads might be in completely different colours.


That's what I have done! Although I'm slowly working my way through them, stripping and repainting them. I'm far too poor to pay retail, or even retail less 20%! But yeah, even though I'm not a great painter myself, only one unit I have acquired so far is actually better painted than I could do I myself. Hopefully by the time I've repainted everything else I'll be good enough to better that one.

*laughs*

Know the feeling mate. I've got a heap of units that are waiting the acetone bath. :p

Well painted models are a bit of a bonus because you can take some inspiration from them. I've looked at how someone's painted a model I've bought and repeated some of their techniques, or it's spurred me on to paint better. (Nothing like a bunch of the competition sitting on your shelf to motivate you)

The other thing is, occasionally you can get away with modifying someone else's paintjob to make it look more cohesive.

The final thing to consider is this: if you make up your own craftworld colour scheme, then you neatly sidestep anyone who thinks that you've painted your army: "wrong." I've done that with my DA so no one can have any problems with me not adhering to the "proper" scheme. :D

Lord Cook
09-04-2008, 16:10
Ok so theoretically if I would paint my eldar army red and black instead of white and green I would get less points for using many aspect warriors?

Now I have heard of everything...

No. By the fluff, the Biel-Tan craftworld uses the most aspect warriors, therefore they are the most obvious colour scheme for an army composed of aspects. However that doesn't mean that every Biel-Tan army has lots of aspects, or that certain other armies couldn't have just as many aspects as well. In the same way that not every force composed entirely of terminators has to be from the Dark Angels Deathwing, and not every Krieg army has to rely on massed infantry waves and trench warfare. It's just an indication of what that army is most famous for. No one is going to dock you points because you painted a foot slogging force in Saim-Hann colours. I'm sure Saim-Hann sometimes uses that kind of force.

Baneboss
09-04-2008, 16:49
Despite that I was being sarcastic you wrote a good explanation nonetheless.

intellectawe
09-04-2008, 18:15
So how important is army fluff in a tournament?


Depends on the tournament.

If there is a rule for having fluff, then a lot.

If there are no rules for fluff, then none.

Culven
09-04-2008, 19:00
So how important is army fluff in a tournament?
It will depend upon the tournament. I attended one tournament in which providing a background story for one's army resulted in a few bonus points. Unfortunately, I was told nothing about the requirement when I spoke to a store employee to confirm time, cost, and requirements. I was not a happy gamer when I found out about it a few minutes before the tournament with nothing on which to write a story, and no time to do so. :mad: