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Gilded Soul
08-04-2008, 01:57
which one would you take first and why?

UncleCrazy
08-04-2008, 02:03
I have disliked Obliteratores since they came in in 3.0 codex. Also with a Havoc squad you can take more guys cheaper which will help keep your heavy weapons alive.

Penitent
08-04-2008, 02:13
Obliterators. A lascannon-armed Havoc is only 15 points cheaper than an Obliterator, and that Obliterator gets alot for that extra 15: better save, invulnerable save, extra wound, extra attack, move-and-fire, deep strike...not to mention the variety of other weapon options.

Zagstruk
08-04-2008, 02:18
I'd go with Obliterators because they can deepstrike, and a have number of twin-linked weapons, making their suicidal drop more logical, and less likely to blow up in your face(at least due to a miss)

Obliterati
08-04-2008, 02:23
I like Obliterators vs most armies...they've got the handy 2+ save, and most importantly they're fearless. I do like to use Havocs, especially against swarmy Tyranids, but usually Oblits are the way to go.

Plus, my 3 Obliterators are the probably the best models I've ever painted...that makes a difference!

TheOneWithNoName
08-04-2008, 02:33
Obliterators all the way. I miss my tank hunters :cries:

Voss
08-04-2008, 02:53
Oblits. Versatility goes a long way and coupled with extra durability, they win over most havoc options.

That said... 4 havocs with heavy bolters have a role against horde armies, and you can pull some nasty things with 4 meltas or flamers in a rhino. Though Chosen do that better...

Vaktathi
08-04-2008, 03:17
For killing tanks or 3+/2+sv units, Obliterators are the way to go. They can move and fire (albeit stumbly) can Deep Strike, present a huge threat in CC as well, and can switch between all sorts of wonderful weapons options.

Alas, now that they lack heavy bolters (something I have sorely missed) Havocs tend to be better in the role of killing infantry that isn't in power armor, as 4 heavy bolters are fearsome, although Oblits can still perform this role (plasma cannons) they aren't quite as good at it.

But for a general heavy support unit that won't let you down, go with the Obliterators (unless your Oblits are like mine and can't hit the broad side of a barn)

Culven
08-04-2008, 03:29
I am more inclined to use Obliterators for two reasons. One they are versatile. Two, they fit the theme of my army, which embraces change, and Obliterators can change at will.

Kelderaith
08-04-2008, 04:39
I voted for Havocs (and seem to be the only one by the answers on this tread haha) for 1 or 2 reasons. First, I really really like havocs models, they have a really nice "chaotic" feel compared to SM Devastator. 2nd, I like the "ablative wound" of a medium/big havocs squad, you have more heavy weapon and they are (mostly) more durable because of bolter carrying dude (at the expense of weapon versatility like said by multiple other players). A 3rd "point" would be that I really really dislike Obliterator models, but that's really just me (and if you convert them then I really like Obliterator as a concept, they are a great unit for nearly any chaos army).

So even though I voted Havocs, I can still clearly see and mostly agree to most point in favour of Obliterators.

PumaKiller
08-04-2008, 05:19
I prefer Havocs. I've never been a fan of Obliterators fluff wise either and that may have something to do with it but they just seem too expensive to me. For their point cost I get a single shot and if it misses oh well. With havocs I have multiple heavy weapons so more likely to actually do something. I think both have their place. Oblits are cheaper and more versatile but I find Havocs are a more sure thing as far as kills go just to the amount of shots put out.

Filthy O'Bedlam
08-04-2008, 09:06
Havocs, first and almost always. Mostly for vastly improved mobiliy of the Rhino, and the ability to soak up more casualties. My main opponent's Eldar can just rip through MEQ, so I need as many bodies on the board as I can get.

Cheers, Filthy

hush88
08-04-2008, 09:09
Obliterators 'cause they have all weapons for all occassions.

destroyerlord
08-04-2008, 11:03
I love my obliterators. One paired up with a marine squad can make a mobile strike force that still has heavy firepower on the move, as well as those extra powerfist attacks if you really need to win that combat.
Deepstrike means that they hit where they need to and the 2+/5+ makes then pretty tough. Just stay away from bright lances!

Latro_
08-04-2008, 11:36
Plasma cannons, Nothing says i love your terminator squad more than 3 plasma cannon shots.

Twin linked rapid firing plasma guns also mmmm

Oblits all the way. Ok they got a semi nerf, but so did havocs with no tank hunters.
Remember the 4 autocannon havoc unit with tank hunters? that was sick.

But yea gimme obilts any day of the week, plasmacannontastic (esp with a lash prince :p )

Fay_Redd
08-04-2008, 11:53
yeah, oblitorators. the models are damned awsome, albeit all metal but still very nice, if you are doing a slaanesh army i would go with havocs with missile launchers. cos 4 missile launchers combined with lash of Edam is disgusting. i have done it and been on the recieving end, it makes much pain. Otherwise Oblitorators are a decent choice.

and destroyer lord that is a fooking amazing idea. *hugs*

toymaker
08-04-2008, 11:56
I love Obliterators. People would ignore my other units and throw everything they had on them. Huey, Dewey and Louie would just it soak up, shake it off, keep walking and throw Lascannon blasts in they're faces. Took out an Avatar that way

Mercer
08-04-2008, 12:04
I've got a squad of Havocs, but I haven't used Oblits before. The Havocs are pretty decent, just keep them at range and let them do there work. The boxset comes with a heavy bolter, I've replaced that with a plasma gun, however the h-bolter is good for defence against infantry.

The only problem with Havocs is been taken out by a long range weapon, or even worse a large blast template and it would kill the lot. In games I've used them in they always do well.

However from what people are saying about Oblits they have some good pros for the extra 15 points, they can deep strike and have a 2+ save to they sound pretty good.

I would look at the stats of both in the codex personally, also weigh up the costs points and to make a decent squad. Then go from there.

Mercer

The Convincer
08-04-2008, 12:26
I voted havocs for a few reasons. I prefer the missile launcher & autocannon havoc models compared to the obliterator models. I also like the fact that the havocs are true members of my legion rather than a separate cult. The obliterator fluff doesn't appeal to me.
I still take the havocs despite my opinion that obliterators are (well, usually) better value for points.

Bigbot
08-04-2008, 12:28
Oblits. 2 wounds, 2+ save. 5+ invunerable, move and fire, fearless, not bad in hand to hand either,

Yeh a unit can be expensive but due to changing weapons you can also fire them where they need to each turn so they're very useful.

Havocs have their role but they have to use the guns they get and are more fragile (though they're allowed more in a squad to counter this).

Chris_Tzeentch
08-04-2008, 12:31
Obliterators are far superior. The only problem I have with them is the hideous miniature.

They are flexible, resilient, accurate and more importantly, devastating.

No contest.

AmBlam
08-04-2008, 13:40
The Obliterator mini is terrible.

Oblits are for las/plas

Havocs for other goodness.

Xardian
08-04-2008, 13:45
Obliterators. Mobile anti-tank and still pretty durable. Better at dropping heavy infantry and most vehicles then a havoc squad. Plus the option to deepstrike which has been absolutely golden in some missions (Cleanse and Recon come to mind). Plus if you have one of the ever-popular Lash HQs then you can Lash the enemy into clumps for Plasma Cannony death, or a twin-linked flamer BBQ if they're getting close.

Havocs are something I might take if I really needed extra anti-horde in the form of 4 heavy bolters. But since they need to stay still in order to shoot, unlike oblits, and they can't have as many weapon options per squad as oblits in any given game, and I tend to get plenty of anti-horde dakka from my troop squads, I really find them to be largely redundant and not as useful as oblits.

logosloki
08-04-2008, 13:45
I say both but voted oblits. I like the model, I like the rules, I like the background. take oblits first then havocs(20 man squads with either heavy weapons or special weapons :))

boogle
08-04-2008, 14:11
I like Havocs to be honest, can't really expand on that

Bigbot
08-04-2008, 14:46
Obliterators are far superior. The only problem I have with them is the hideous miniature.

They are flexible, resilient, accurate and more importantly, devastating.

No contest.

I use the old minitures, which i love far more. It works for me

The boyz
08-04-2008, 15:06
Obliterators get my vote as well. Mainly just for their all round versatility, when compared to Havoc's.

boogle
08-04-2008, 15:17
I use the old minitures, which i love far more. It works for me

Do you mean the one that looks like Elvis?

knighthawke70
08-04-2008, 15:22
obliterators can take a beating more than havocs, the only thing i do not like about them now SAP rule

gaoCU
08-04-2008, 15:27
Obliterators can not take a beating more than havocs. Havocs have as many ablative wounds as you like regardless of what's shooting at them, whereas obliterators can be killed instantly by missile launcher, lascannons and the like.

Despite being slightly less resilient than havocs, I still voted for obliterators, because they are mobile (unlike havocs), and more versatile with a bunch of weapons available at any time. Basically, oblits have far greater versatility.

soul destroyer
08-04-2008, 16:01
Obliterators all the way. The model kinda sucks though.

Chem-Dog
08-04-2008, 16:06
As an IG player I totally dread Oblits, my Guardsmen fall over very quickly and Tanks fare no better.

Slow and purposeful isn't usually much of a issue for them, just stick them in the middle of your battle line and stroll towards the enemy blasting whatever they can see, and watch them soak up fire in return. They are too dangerous to ignore and extrodinarily hard to kill, this gives the rest of your army ample to advance relatively unmolested.

I quite like the models too. Better than the original "Tetsuo" models.

The Song of Spears
08-04-2008, 16:26
Obliterators all the way. I miss my tank hunters :cries:

Yup, I agree. This was perhaps one of the biggest travestys of the new chaos dex, the total loss of tank hunters, it really helped chaos deal with skimmer spam...

Oblits all the way, they are just waaay too versatile. Just stay away from rail guns :P

sephiroth87
08-04-2008, 18:17
I like oblits when I'm running something with anti-infantry fire. If I'm already running something like a lascannon predator, I like the havocs for anti-infantry fire.

I don't like havocs for anti-tank, though. For the same points, the move and fire obliterators win for me.

Latro_
08-04-2008, 18:43
tbh havocs imo are best used in a rhino with mazed out spec weapons and a power fist asp champ. That kinda unit is deadly.

ChromeZephyr
08-04-2008, 19:16
Obliterators, every time. Deep striking them somewhere your opponent really doesn't need them to be makes me happy. Not quite the uber-unit from the last 'dex (I miss the T5), but still great in my book.

Enderel
08-04-2008, 19:19
Obliterators but Havocs equipped with Autocannons and Heavy bolters do have their place as well. Dependant on tactics of the army though. I'm using heavy deep strike currently so Oblits fit the bill perfectly.

Democratus
08-04-2008, 20:07
Obliterators are excellent when used in the proper role. They are good at tank hunting, obviously. The TL Plasmagun is great for killing heavy infantry. The short range weaponry combines well with "rude shock" tactics using Deep Strike. TL melta is a favorite against very heavy armor and the TL Flamer is the perfect tool to eliminate Pathfinders or other units that specialize in cover saves.

The only role left that Havoks play best is anti horde. They do this well, but my Troops are also excellent at killing enemy infantry. So if I can only take one it will be the Obliterators.