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pookie
08-04-2008, 09:52
Hi all

Just trying to get some ideas for my IG force im building.

I'm using the old RT Era Guard, which if you all remeber or have seen, have Heavy wepons that are shoulder mounted ( much like the SM Devs ), now this is diffrent to how they are represented now, with two guardsmen per Heavy Weapon.

What ive found though is that the scale of the new Heavy Weapons is much larger than the old IG models and old Heavy Weapons, and im struggling for ideas on how to represent Heavy weps teams.

any ideas any one could suggest???

Pookie

EldarWolf
08-04-2008, 09:59
Have the second one be like the Eldar or later IG, just a normal trooper who's an ammo carrier until the original guy falls.

Bookwrak
08-04-2008, 10:08
I mount my older models with the gunner and weapon on a calvary base, and the loader on a separate 28mm round base.

ehlijen
08-04-2008, 10:13
As long as you have one guardsmen with a heavy weapon and one doing something loader related (carriyng ammo, pointing out targets, just being different from the rest of the squad) there is no probelm with your heavy weapon team.

If you actually have a new weapon team, all the spare ammo bits make great bits selections for converting ammo monkeys. You could use some spare ammo chains to try and put a chain over a troopers shoulder. Or use seargents chainsword arms (sans the swords) to have them carrying ammo boxes. Or just a lascannon battery as a backpack. That's assuming you have plastics at all. I might have misunderstood your post.

Sir_Turalyon
08-04-2008, 10:23
As loader does absolutely nothing in post 3rd edition rules, as long as you start with heavy weapon and at least one lasgunner in squad, you are fine.

EDIT: Of course I meant one lasgunner per heavy weapon in squad ...

pookie
08-04-2008, 12:13
I mount my older models with the gunner and weapon on a calvary base, and the loader on a separate 28mm round base.

the IG im taking about are prior to thos types of Heavy weps, they are all shoulder mounted, and dont have chasis like the Metal cadian/Mordian etc versions.


As long as you have one guardsmen with a heavy weapon and one doing something loader related (carriyng ammo, pointing out targets, just being different from the rest of the squad) there is no probelm with your heavy weapon team.

thats true, and i hadnt though of it like that


If you actually have a new weapon team, all the spare ammo bits make great bits selections for converting ammo monkeys. You could use some spare ammo chains to try and put a chain over a troopers shoulder. Or use seargents chainsword arms (sans the swords) to have them carrying ammo boxes. Or just a lascannon battery as a backpack. That's assuming you have plastics at all. I might have misunderstood your post.

thats part of the problem, the new heavy Weapons are much bigger than the 1st incarnations, but i do have a few spares, so i'l try that out.


As loader does absolutely nothing in post 3rd edition rules, as long as you start with heavy weapon and at least one lasgunner in squad, you are fine.

see my response to ehlijen;2505435.

thanks everyone so far who has replied, deff got a couple of ideas now, if anyone happens to be buildinga RT era force who has some pics of there Heavy wep teams, id be intrested to see them.

frogprince
08-04-2008, 12:14
all my squads have the missile launchers, so all mine are single mini's on 28mm bases standing with shoulder mounted rockets.

all the heavy weapons teams (i.e the heavy support ones, and HQ ones) are based on the big titan bases, and modeled as weapons enplacements.

IMO, it doesn't really matter. as Sir_Turalyon said, as long as you have 1 flashlight wielding guy around the heavy, its all good.

Xenobane
08-04-2008, 12:33
As loader does absolutely nothing in post 3rd edition rules, as long as you start with heavy weapon and at least one lasgunner in squad, you are fine.

I'm not sure that this is completely true. It is a "HW team" afterall. Should the HW firer die (maybe he was an enforced casualty due to LOS/ range issues), the loader could take over the HW. If both were to die in similar circumstances, you could not legally say that another lasgun guardsman was now operating the HW. So it's important to have the loader differentiated in some way from the rest of the squad. Have him carry a missile/ ammo box or even just glue one to his base.

jfrazell
08-04-2008, 14:03
Modeling is just fine. As noted have the actual weapons firer, then have an assistant with some spare ammo, radio or, or even just pointing something out. You can put them on two small bases or one larger base.

Gameswise just follow the normal rules for them.

Sir_Turalyon
08-04-2008, 14:09
@ Xenobane : there was such rule in second edition, when hiting specific model in squad was easier. And yes, that's why loaders came to existance, to give heavy weapon second fighting chance. But post third edition it was replaced with owner of the squad allocating wounds to models, with assumption that any model may pick up heavy weapon if specialist dies. Unless there is special rule I overlooked, loaders are purely decorative models.

Xenobane
08-04-2008, 14:30
@ Xenobane : there was such rule in second edition, when hiting specific model in squad was easier. And yes, that's why loaders came to existance, to give heavy weapon second fighting chance. But post third edition it was replaced with owner of the squad allocating wounds to models, with assumption that any model may pick up heavy weapon if specialist dies. Unless there is special rule I overlooked, loaders are purely decorative models.

Sure - under normal circumstances you would have the option of applying the wounds to other squad members. Not sure about the assumption that 'any model may pick up' the heavy weapon though. Otherwise stuff like torrent of fire rather goes out of the window. As I said it's only going to apply in circumstances where you're forced to remove the firer because of LOS or range constraints. But if you lost your plasma gunner because he was the only model in range to the enemy (and therefore was the only possible casualty from their fire) you couldn't just say that the plasma gun was picked up by another squad member. As I understand it, the loader may continue to fire the HW (because only one of the HW team has to survive to fire the weapon) but otherwise the HW team are treated in the same way.

Moriarty
08-04-2008, 17:29
Mortar HW squads are easy to represent using RT figures - set a couple up as fire control officers with binoculars etc on a cavalry base.

What other type of HW team are you wanting to field?

razormasticator
08-04-2008, 17:33
You could get second edition gun carriages like I did for my vossies.

You know, buy a bunch of stray catachan blisters and use the lascannon or autocannon platforms.

505
08-04-2008, 21:44
since there is no rule that they have to be on the same base. (in fact the FAQ stated its just for ease of movment)

do what you want

pookie
09-04-2008, 09:31
Mortar HW squads are easy to represent using RT figures - set a couple up as fire control officers with binoculars etc on a cavalry base.

What other type of HW team are you wanting to field?

Yeah, sure mortars are easy to do, but the other weps they use ( IE the RT models ), Heavy Bolters and Las cannons are all shoulder mounted weps, so they dont look like the new HW teams, in 1st Ed HW were not teams, but a single model upgrade, hence problem with making them look like a team.

hmmm, got some ideas now, maybe the loader will have a 'slung' las gun and ammo boxes/recharge cells on his base, and the rest of the sqaud will all be in firing pose's.

ehlijen
09-04-2008, 10:31
It is in fact a requirement by RAW to have the loader distinct from the rest of the squad. Things like limited LOS and Hail/Torrent of Fire or vindicares/mindwar/etc can indeed pick out specific models and destroy any HW they carry along with them. Only the loader in a HW team is allowed to pick up the HW if the gunner dies, no other squad member may do so.

However such occurances are rare enough that simple things like these work:
Vindicare: I snipe your gunner!
IG loader: I pick up my buddies gun! (Remove random squad member instead of HW gunner).
Vindicare: Next turn I snipe your new gunner!
IG loader/New Gunner: I pick up...no wait. In this squad I've already done that once this game, so I can't do it again. I'm dead. (Remove HW gunner and HW models).

MrBigMr
09-04-2008, 14:08
I have my IG HW's on small bases and the gunner carries and fires his from the hip or shoulder. I've made the loaders carry extra ammo. So HB loader carries an ammo drum on his back, missile launcher loader has extra missiles and lascannon loader is a sort of a spotter (thinking of using servo skulls for that).

jfrazell
09-04-2008, 15:04
Exactly. If you look at the Valhallens their missile guy is standing up. The 2nd member is holding a missile. Other heavy weapons team have a fire controller and a spotter, well "spotting" both are easy to do with RT figures. Worse to worse just add a patch or something to the shooter and an additional member so that you know he's the 2nd team member. No big deal.

abngrunt
12-04-2008, 00:40
I also have a Rouge Trader Guard army, I use the metal heavy bolter and for the loader I use a backpack of clips from the Necromunda line. I use the missile launcher from the RT marines and just attach some of the rockets to the loader. I'm still working on an idea for the lascannons and autocannons. I hope this helped.

Chem-Dog
12-04-2008, 02:02
since there is no rule that they have to be on the same base. (in fact the FAQ stated its just for ease of movment)

do what you want

Although, the truth of it is the larger bases cause hassle in general, not fitting into terrain designed for 1 or 2 single infantry figures to stand on, creating a larger squad footprint for unscupulous players to capitalise on and I've even had to argue against the assertion that a weapon team as it is on one base can be wiped out by instant death (as if guardsmen weren't easy enough to kill as it is).

To the OP, just stick a regular Guardsman in the squad to replace the Loader, it's totally unnecessary to have him represented on the table, my loaders often get removed as regular casualties without special consideration simply because they are the first one to hand.
If you do feel it necessay, put a little mark on the Heavy trooper and one of the models to indicate that they are the team.