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Corax
08-04-2008, 10:01
Just thinking about the Tau and the fact that they have no Psykers. This led me to wonder about two things:

1. Do Tau spacecraft travel through the Warp?

2. If so, how do they navigate through it? All the other space faring races have some form of psycher to guide them.

Drachenfell
08-04-2008, 10:05
I'm not sure completely but I remember Reading thy Tau use a type of Ftl drive that skims the warp but doesn't enter it. Resulting in much much slower and much less accurate jumps.

They don't enter the warp though. I'm not sure what would happen if they did. Since their ships don't have gellar fields its possible many would become demon chow. But then again tau almost don't register in the warp.

Who knows.

Archangel_Ruined
08-04-2008, 10:13
I've read that they skim over the warp, somewhere between real space and warp space, so it's much slower but much safer. I think the only race with FTL tech are the necrons, who obviously cannot use the warp at all.

Burnthem
08-04-2008, 10:14
If you imagine the Warp as a pond, Imperial ships (and most other races) dive under the surface and are completely sumberged, enabling fast yet dangerous travel.

Tau ships on the other hand are too 'bouyant' to dive, and can only skim across the surface, as when they 'dive' their ships engines aren't capable of holding themselves under. This allows FTL travel at high speeds, although not as high as using the Warp properly.

Note that this is not true FTL travel, only the Necrons have the ability to do this, The Tau are still reliant on the Warp, even if they can't take full advantage of it.

Secondly, Psykers are not required to travel through the warp, they only make it easier. Imagine the pool of water again, a Psyker allows you to swim from one end to the other without coming up for air and to check your direction. Without a Psyker/Navigator you have to rely on Navigational computers, which while still good dont allow protracted 'dives', so you have to keep coming up to get your bearings and make sure you're not traveling off course.

Hope this answers your questions :)

EDIT - Ninja'd by Archangel ;)

Bregalad
08-04-2008, 14:01
Also remember that Kroot have no psykers, but have full warp travel to a selection of targets (only inhabited worlds).
Tau also navigate according to maps. More info in the novel "Kill Team" and perhaps also in the BFG rules.

DapperAnarchist
08-04-2008, 16:47
Only Humans have Psykers that can be used to guide ships in the Warp (only Navigators can do this, due to a specific mutation - Astropaths and the like can't.) Everyone else gets by on the slower system to system jumps, or doesn't care where they go, as long as there's something to kill (Orks, Chaos). Some races have managed to spread without FTL at all - the Q'orl Swarm for example.

Dyrnwyn
08-04-2008, 23:41
Just thinking about the Tau and the fact that they have no Psykers. This led me to wonder about two things:

1. Do Tau spacecraft travel through the Warp?

2. If so, how do they navigate through it? All the other space faring races have some form of psycher to guide them.

Tau don't travel in the warp. They utilize it to generate FTL speeds in real space. The analogy used in the BFG description of their drives is that they dip into the warp and then pop out, like a ping-pong ball held underwater and then released. The speeds archived in the ascent back to realspace are FTL. vessels with stronger gravitic drives can stay under longer and dive deeper, resulting in faster speeds during the reversion to realspace. So while Tau vessels use Warp Drives to move into the warp, both their sublight and FTL speeds are dependent on their gravitic engines. As they travel in realspace, not warpspace, they use realspace maps to plot courses.

Khaine's Messenger
09-04-2008, 01:18
1. Do Tau spacecraft travel through the Warp?

The background is ever so slightly inconsistent on this point. Tau can and have navigated "warp rifts" (per their codex and Kill Team), but this is about the extent of their willingness and ability to indulge in such behavior. Barring the technical details about their gravitic wedges and the various colorful metaphors about trying to shove buoyant objects under the surface, they don't really "enter" the Warp. Considering the two realms to be "separate places" is something of a problem when the cosmology is forced into unusual shapes, so here we are. :cool:

iamkion132
09-04-2008, 14:36
So what happens if the Necron were to cut off the warp? Would Tau FTL drives still work seeing as they don't actually enter the warp?

Nazguire
09-04-2008, 14:45
Only Humans have Psykers that can be used to guide ships in the Warp (only Navigators can do this, due to a specific mutation - Astropaths and the like can't.) Everyone else gets by on the slower system to system jumps, or doesn't care where they go, as long as there's something to kill (Orks, Chaos). Some races have managed to spread without FTL at all - the Q'orl Swarm for example.


Chaos Marines and their Navy use daemons and sorcerors to guide themselves through the Warp. I'd imagine there to be quite a few corrupted Astropaths as well. Orks utilise Weirdboyz and Eldar don't use the Warp to travel being that they use the Webway. Maps and beacons and Farseers would be the order of the day there.

tech adept
09-04-2008, 14:57
1. I thought the that the kroot had some (weaker) pyskers from feasting on some humans with the pysker gene

2. Don't the tau use the warp alter space around the ship (warp drive style) by creating weak points in the warp/materium barrier (allowing certain physics laws to be bent).

NB: not sure about the second point but would explain their ability to navigate rifts (their ships are made for it) and would mean that unless they can mimic the effect no warp means no FTL for the tau

tech adept
09-04-2008, 14:59
Also while I remember were did this 'dive' fluff come from?

The pestilent 1
09-04-2008, 16:06
Also while I remember were did this 'dive' fluff come from?

I don't know where it originated in 40K but it is pretty much identical to how Star Trek Warp Drives work (Creating a bubble to skim across Sub-space, neatly bypassing Light Speed and all the craziness involved in FTL travel by just not breaking the light barrier)

Dyrnwyn
09-04-2008, 17:20
1. I thought the that the kroot had some (weaker) pyskers from feasting on some humans with the pysker gene
I believe the Kroot do have some weak psykers, but I was under the impression that they were from eating Weirdboyz.


2. Don't the tau use the warp alter space around the ship (warp drive style) by creating weak points in the warp/materium barrier (allowing certain physics laws to be bent).
Not according to Battlefleet Gothic.


Also while I remember were did this 'dive' fluff come from?
The dive metaphor comes from Battlefleet Gothic Armada, in the beginning of section on the Tau.

Bregalad
09-04-2008, 18:48
The dive metaphor originates from the novel "Kill Team" by Gav Thorpe IIRC, that was released with the first Codex. I hate the plot and the writing style, but it has a lot of Tau/Kroot fluff, esp. a warp travel with a Tau ship.

And the Kroot learned how to build a warp drive by eating a big mech (their warp travel knowledge is genetically encoded, not just memory). See article in the Kodex Kroot:
http://www.freewebs.com/pfreck/Kodex%2520Kroot%2520V4.2.pdf (page 5 top)

Gue'la Koholic
09-04-2008, 21:17
The results of Medusa V for the Tau was that the warp was too dangerous for them to attempt any real travel through. They decided to keep using the gravity engines to skim the immaterium, but that's it. It's FTL, but not as fast as true warp travel. Thus, they are holding off on their 4th sphere of expansion.

Bregalad
09-04-2008, 22:38
Well, for weeks until the last day, the Tau were4th or 5th, better than SM and Chaos, so they should have had some success. And someone said (I haven't read that myself) that in Germany and Canada, the campaign writers talked about possessed or Chaos tainted Tau Earth caste, which is unthinkable to standard Tau fluff. I would like to see this text myself, as all other so-called evidence of Chaos Tau disappeared into nothing upon closer inspection (but that is another, nasty theme not to be discussed here).

DapperAnarchist
09-04-2008, 23:30
Ok, so Chaos probably have some useful sorcerors, or helpful daemons. Astropaths don't guide ships though - and probably can't be turned (being exposed to the soul of the Emperor will do that to a man/woman). I'd say there are turned Navigators though - but still humans using a specific mutation.

Orks used to just "push off" into the warp, and the Waaagh energy effectively guided them to a habitable planet. That may have changed a bit since the RT days though. And I assumed people would know I left the eldar out of that.

Post 111! much more interesting that plain old 100...

sabreu
10-04-2008, 04:44
To the OP

Your answers awaits here (http://www.specialist-games.com/battlefleetgothic/assets/lrb/E_BFGTau.pdf)

Short answers,

Tau...

The details were soon resolved. There was still a major constraint, only the most powerful (and bulky) drives could sustain the gravitic wing
throughout the dive and the power drain meant that considerable recharge time was needed between dives. Also by comparison to actually navigating the warp the pace was still very slow. Taking typical Imperial Warp speeds the Tau drive was slower by a factor of five. The speed was consistent though, did not expose the Tau to the perils of the Warp and enabled the Tau to expand beyond their home star for the first time.

Kroot...

Unlike the Tau, the Kroot are capable of true warp travel but the exact method has been kept secret from their employers. To the Kroot, warp travel is almost migratory and they seem incapable of navigating anywhere other than systems with habitable worlds. It appears they are drawn to functioning eco-systems

Nicassar...

Nicassar dhows are small but elegant yachts that are propelled by their captainsí psychic powers. These are very manoeuvrable but lack any
practical interstellar capacity and until recently any significant firepower.
Since being incorporated into the Empire however their weaponry has
been updated to Tau levels.

Demiurg...(closest paragraph I could find of a hint/explanation)

Fleet strategists have postulated a link between the ships and the expansion of the Tau Empire on the Eastern Fringe, citing three confirmed
sightings of Tau/Demiurg or Kroot/Demiurg fleets in the region of the Damocles Gulf. Others have suggested that the nomadic movement of the mysterious Demiurg demonstrates only an opportunistic desire to capitalise on the disruption caused by the Tyranid hivefleets.

Gue'la Koholic
10-04-2008, 17:25
Well, for weeks until the last day, the Tau were4th or 5th, better than SM and Chaos, so they should have had some success. And someone said (I haven't read that myself) that in Germany and Canada, the campaign writers talked about possessed or Chaos tainted Tau Earth caste, which is unthinkable to standard Tau fluff. I would like to see this text myself, as all other so-called evidence of Chaos Tau disappeared into nothing upon closer inspection (but that is another, nasty theme not to be discussed here).I remember something about Tau being possessed by Chaos for M5 as well, but since the site is MIA, I cannot confirm it. Also, around the time the Daeomn hunters codex came out, GW put modeling ideas different types of daemonic possessions, with two Tau entries - a possessed ethereal and a spawn bursting from a crisis suit. It always made me think about modeling a possessed Tau army, but there's that little problem with the Tau and their almost complete lack of any warp presence. I guess GW sometimes forgets....

Bregalad
10-04-2008, 20:10
We should leave this OT discussion here. There are other, ugly threads that deal with it.